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About the Kienzan
- Thread starter BOEGVELD
- Start date
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- goku krillin solar flare
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They have it via kienzan, solar flare doesn't deal damage, it just overloads eyes with light.
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- Thread starter
- #3
Idk how I mixed those names up... but it's not on their profile though.
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Yeah why is it not on the profile
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Wait you did? Lmao.
Is kienzan not on their profile or the dura neg? If is the kater i assume it is still rejected, like, doesn't krillin have "high 5-A with kienzan" instead?
Is kienzan not on their profile or the dura neg? If is the kater i assume it is still rejected, like, doesn't krillin have "high 5-A with kienzan" instead?
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Didnt Toriyama say it can cut through literally anything no matter how hard it is
XSOULOFCINDERX
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Didn't Krillin literally cut off Frieza's Tail and through Nappa's Cheek with it despite them being a fuckton Stronger than him?
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...didn't Kienzan also stop on Cell's neck
XSOULOFCINDERX
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I thought that was Anime Filler?
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Exactly, here i think it was accepted it simply has higher ap rather than dura neg, which i disagree tbh.
Only example i can see of it falling on cutting was against cell, and it was anime filler.
Only example i can see of it falling on cutting was against cell, and it was anime filler.
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Ah. I see. Well in that case it would just apply to the manga canon, no?
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Yeah i think the anime kienzan would be nerfed or we give every toei character above perfect cell resustance to dura neg.
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Cell just has resistance to durability negation then. I mean dude was literally built to be the ultimate weapon by an android who has technology infinitely greater than anything our world has to offer
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I don't really agree with that honestly. I feel like it just has to be a massive power difference, cause y'know, piercing damage. It's a giant, condensed Ki blade, when we know Ki attacks can already scale above the person's physicals by a good bit. A Ki attack specifically designed to cut would definitely be able to effect someone a good bit stronger, but could definitely be overpowered.
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Cell is filler
But imo it's either Damage Boost or Durability Negation(I'm leaning towards durability negation how some level)
The only canon characters to survive I believe are Jiren(because he's Jiren) and the panda looking guy from the Super Manga(He did it by spinning tho)(it cut him when he was standing still)
Krillin cut Nappa , Frieza, and Goku. Vegeta had to dodge it when he was a ape .
Goku cut Buutenks.
Vegeta cut Great Ape Gohan with it who he had to run from.
But imo it's either Damage Boost or Durability Negation(I'm leaning towards durability negation how some level)
The only canon characters to survive I believe are Jiren(because he's Jiren) and the panda looking guy from the Super Manga(He did it by spinning tho)(it cut him when he was standing still)
Krillin cut Nappa , Frieza, and Goku. Vegeta had to dodge it when he was a ape .
Goku cut Buutenks.
Vegeta cut Great Ape Gohan with it who he had to run from.
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- Thread starter
- #16
Krillin's noted to be "Dwarf Star level with Destructo Disc" but there's nothing about the Kienzan in his abilities profile. I'm assuming it's rejected then. Don't know why though.
It did in the anime. But even Durability Negation should/could have its limits. The difference between Cell and Krillin was absolutely enormous.
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Yeah absolutely agree with durability negation for Kienzan, I was myself going to make a CRT for it cuz I got into scuffle with some guys on Amino who kept saying its not impressive ......
Even being only a teeny weeny bit stronger than your opponent allows you to no sell slashing attacks....
Even though both Goku and Trunks were holding back, both were relative to each other, yet Goku blocked these Sword swings like a chad....
And yet Krillin can hurt likes of Nappa or Frieza with Kienzan when he has no business scratching let alone hurting them normally due to huge power gap.
Even Oozaru Vegeta takes care to dodge it..
And Of course 2nd Form Frieza gets his tail cut.....
And Frieza takes extra care to dodge these later....
Atleast a limited dura neg should be awarded, or maybe dura neg uptill certain Tier.
Of course even Frieza's Death Saucers should have Dura Neg, because even SSJ1 Goku took conscious efforts to dodge them, and these negged Frieza's own durability when they sliced him.
And this is all in a show where raw power kinda no sells hax....
Even being only a teeny weeny bit stronger than your opponent allows you to no sell slashing attacks....
Even though both Goku and Trunks were holding back, both were relative to each other, yet Goku blocked these Sword swings like a chad....
And yet Krillin can hurt likes of Nappa or Frieza with Kienzan when he has no business scratching let alone hurting them normally due to huge power gap.
Even Oozaru Vegeta takes care to dodge it..
And Of course 2nd Form Frieza gets his tail cut.....
And Frieza takes extra care to dodge these later....
Atleast a limited dura neg should be awarded, or maybe dura neg uptill certain Tier.
Of course even Frieza's Death Saucers should have Dura Neg, because even SSJ1 Goku took conscious efforts to dodge them, and these negged Frieza's own durability when they sliced him.
And this is all in a show where raw power kinda no sells hax....
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Yeah this is just dura neg like with a sword taken to the exteme, I think it would count as limited durability negation. The kind that works up until a certain gap in power has been reached. We'd basically need to determine the maximum power gap Krillin (or maybe Goku?) has ever had against someone where the Kienzan still worked on to determine the gap of power it could still breach.
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Yeah... we can safely assume it can work uptill certain tier of durability and kinda stops there...
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Hmm, nah I'd say gap in power (so it doesn't just stop at 4-B). I don't see why it'd only work till a certain tier, I mean maybe due to how sharp it is which doesn't increase, but the speed of the attack probably matters as well + the ki within the attack would be stronger as well as the characters grow.
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Seems good dura negation, maybe limited to stay safe.
Cell isn't canon, yes, but Jiren broken Goku's kienzan with his punches, but I don't how this translates, if it's resistance to dura neg or just a limitation of the technique itself.
Cell isn't canon, yes, but Jiren broken Goku's kienzan with his punches, but I don't how this translates, if it's resistance to dura neg or just a limitation of the technique itself.
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- Thread starter
- #24
Agreed. Frieza's technique is confirmed to be a form of Kienzan in the Daizenshuu btw.Yeah absolutely agree with durability negation for Kienzan, I was myself going to make a CRT for it cuz I got into scuffle with some guys on Amino who kept saying its not impressive ......
Even being only a teeny weeny bit stronger than your opponent allows you to no sell slashing attacks....
Even though both Goku and Trunks were holding back, both were relative to each other, yet Goku blocked these Sword swings like a chad....
And yet Krillin can hurt likes of Nappa or Frieza with Kienzan when he has no business scratching let alone hurting them normally due to huge power gap.
Even Oozaru Vegeta takes care to dodge it..
And Of course 2nd Form Frieza gets his tail cut.....
And Frieza takes extra care to dodge these later....
Atleast a limited dura neg should be awarded, or maybe dura neg uptill certain Tier.
Of course even Frieza's Death Saucers should have Dura Neg, because even SSJ1 Goku took conscious efforts to dodge them, and these negged Frieza's own durability when they sliced him.
And this is all in a show where raw power kinda no sells hax....
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So maybe take relative gap in power is what you mean.... thats okay too.... actually makes more sense.
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- Thread starter
- #26
Jiren breaking the Kienzan was also anime only, was it not? Limited dura neg for Toei's version seems reasonable, but I think the manga version should just dura neg tbh.
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I would say Jiren is resistance. Goku was still able to keep with that level of Jiren they weren't far apart liike Frieza and Krillin
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That makes sense...
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I honestly don't know if you are being sarcastic or not
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I mean Jiren didn't necesarilly touch the sharp edges (before stopping it's momentum). Although maybe he did, maybe someone can frame-by-frame it?
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he always writes with dots, it's his thing
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This is the scene right??
Stamp 2m30s
It seems Jiren didn't even punched them on the edges but rather on the flat sides... and last one he held by sides too.... so basically even Jiren takes care in destroying those...so maybe we can solidly say it has better justifications for just straight up Dura Neg...
What do you guys think??
Stamp 2m30s
It seems Jiren didn't even punched them on the edges but rather on the flat sides... and last one he held by sides too.... so basically even Jiren takes care in destroying those...so maybe we can solidly say it has better justifications for just straight up Dura Neg...
What do you guys think??
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resistance to durability neg would work for jiren , he tanked another durability negating attack before which is hit's phasing thing that stopped goku's heart , he took it straight to the chest ( althought there was a no killing ) .
plus he has low 2-C durability so maybe that's the kienzan's limit
plus he has low 2-C durability so maybe that's the kienzan's limit
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The first 2 look like he punched on the sides.The last one held by the sides but the whole thing is in he's hand. Either way Jiren wouldn't stop it from being Dura Neg.
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Goku was also low 2-C
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i think this goku is still 3-A , is he not ?
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No he's low 2C it's on he's page
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Eehh on the last one maybe its the camera angle which make that a bit harder to judge.
The camera is kinda looking from left inside to right outwards... and not to mention that disc is kinda thick when it should be thin... the bad camera angle and animation kinda gives the appearance of edge in contact with his palms...
But yeah you are right, even if it touched Jiren...thats just resistance for him not an anti feat for Kienzan.
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yeah i just checked it out , i thought he was LOW 2-C with KK x20 cuz that's when jiren said that he attacks got sharper but oh well , what does this tell us ?
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