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About the Imaginary and Project Stigma...

GarrixianXD

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Most likely one of my biggest projects by the end of this year and the start of the New Year. Credits to @Shiroiyo and @Frerty for being the life support of this CRT. Also thanks to @Enryu_The_Red_Tower, @Kubo423 and @ThanatosX for presenting a lot of useful information here too.

Let's start off with the basics first, there'll be more convincing details that'll all logically line up.

Part 1: The Imaginary Tree, the conceptual cosmic structure, predated absolutely everything; space-time, laws, concepts, etc.

The Imaginary Tree is the essence of absolute omnipresent existence, one that engulfs all worlds of Hoyoverse throughout all its metaseries (Honkai Impact 3rd, Honkai: Star Rail, and Genshin Impact).

The Concept of Time in each of the branch worlds/realms of the Imaginary Tree is fundamentally different, contrasting to the lead worlds (the standard Universe), having its own laws and notions of causality. Therefore, the worlds and Civilizations that are birthed from the Imaginary Tree take the form of branches, that are embedded across a different time axis, separate from that of the conventional concept of time. Hence, it is inaccessible since it doesn't exist in any accessible dimensions.

The Imaginary Tree is the instant of eternity, the start of the end and the origin of laws and truth, birthing the entirety of creation itself. The fundamental laws that govern the universe and the truth of all life came into existence from the predation of the Imaginary Tree.

The Imaginary Space, a supplementary concept of the Imaginary Tree, is an imaginary structure that governs the fundamental concept of the Imaginary, manifested through Imaginary numbers, stretches beyond and encompasses all structures that are formed from real numbers and information, even existing in infinite amounts itself. The Imaginary Space was already stated to be the origin of the Universe where all laws intervene, the other side of the world that exists beyond layers of rules, defying the laws of physics, and transcending concepts of time, even having its own notion of time itself.

Part 2: The Imaginary Tree/Imaginary Space is a void that consists of absolute nothingness and transcends reality

The very concept of Imaginary Space defies everything that originates and intertwines with reality. Fundamentally opposing all physical constants, the entirety of the real world and even existence itself.

The Imaginary Singularity is a point in the Imaginary Space that lacks any aspect of dimensional information, analogous to that of the Herrscher cores that is used by many Herrscher characters; Kiana, Mei, Bronya, etc.

The Imaginary Space is a void that is devoid of time and completely lacks any aspects of common sense. It is constituted of Absolute Nothingness, with the meaning of time there bypassing and defying conventional logic, eventually. time will lose its meaning and everything will be reduced to nothing in the Imaginary Space, with utterly nothing remaining and even diminishing the meaning of everything, only leaving oblivion.


The Imaginary Space transcends reality, the powers of the Imaginary Space extend beyond every aspect of reality, transcending even far beyond its margin. Otto Apocalypse needed to harness the powers of the Void in order to retrieve the absolute infinite powers of the Imaginary Tree. Herrscher Authorities also transcend all dimensions, corresponding to that of concepts of the Imaginary Space, such as the Imaginary Singularity.

It is already established from these continued series of approved content revision threads (first, second, third, fourth), that the Imaginary Tree exists on a plane of absolute infinity, its power representing a sign of absolute infinity, with transfinite layers of transcendence over normal worlds and Civilizations themselves. Hence, the Imaginary Tree and Space are already established as Low 1-A on the current cosmological scale.

Part 3: Project Stigma

This section is going to contain a shit ton of information and Imgur scans. All of the crucial evidence that directly mentions reality-fiction transcendences should be presented in this section, with most of the key information of Imaginary Tree birthing, containing and transcending infinite worlds/Civilizations being presented here, here, here and here. Anyway, let's start analysing this execration.

The lowest level of Project Stigma is the establishment of fiction, the fundamental basis and origins of all abstract concepts; "idea" is the fundamental core unit of Project Stigma, a contradictory concept (hence, logic-defying concept) and bestows characters "enlightenment", another conceptual unit derived from "idea" that eliminates the boundaries between reality and fiction by outlining another concept named "truth". With this information inferred, it can be postulated that this thing called "idea" grants a lower fictional being R>F transcendence, allowing them to interact with real entities of a higher R>F plane. Keep this in mind, this is crucial information to support and establish the logic of further content I'll present, for solidifying context and connecting shreds of evidence.



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The Civilizations of Project Stigma are referred to as stories, a system of worlds and dimensions that stems from fiction but tend to progress into further evolutionary states that allow them to transcend reality. Stories originate with the earliest concepts called "narratives".

Narratives are the fundamental building blocks of reality. They absolutely consist of everything that is within and beyond reality, establishing both fiction and reality-transcending worlds and dimensions. Prometheus stated that Civilizations are created by imaginary humans, which are entities part of the Imaginary Space as the name suggests. It is implied that the Civilizations function as a hierarchy, with each higher order of Civilization being more advanced and complex than the other. Not to mention Narratives are concepts that originated from the Imaginary Space, implied by the statement that Narratives have been harnessed by imaginary humans.

Narratives are created from the path of reason, also referred to as "reason" itself which directly correlates to the Herrscher of Reason, aka Bronya; the Herrscher of Reason authority allows Bronya to create anything, through control over Narratives.


Humanity's standards of the Narrative all revolve around imagined and unreal purposes and desires, making their fictional world and nature expand wildly. However, history freed and transcended humanity beyond its fictional Narrative, letting them become reality and ascend into a higher plane of qualitative existence.

The spirit of the Herrscher of Reason inherits reality and is deemed as the key to combat against Project Stigma. However, it's doubtful that Bronya can utilise the Herrscher of Reason's full-power, due to only having a distributed core being one of the remnants that were split 300000 times.

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Project Stigma is a structure that contains the hierarchy of all narratives. It was said to have been created by a "story" that governs all stories, referred to as the absolute idea of self-existence, a concept that signifies "conceptual infinity". Project Stigma contains multiple layers of Civilizations/stories, each transcending and spiralling on top of another, representing the Civilizations spiralling evolution, progression and acceleration of the growth of their existence beyond fiction. A higher story/Civilization views the story/Civilization below them as fiction and qualitatively inferior, telling its own story.

It should be mentioned that this subsection reckons back to the first relevant Imgur gallery shown in this section; fictional stories attaining "ideas", hence achieving enlightenment that allows them to qualitatively transcend above their fictional existence onto reality. In such case here, Prometheus explained that the story separated from the storyteller through its evolution and, therefore begins to tell its own story as if they became an R>F transcended entity that is qualitatively superior to their former self(ves).



All forms of Civilization come in the form of information and concepts, even with humans being individual data and having their own unique Narratives, allowing their own stories to be created that pertain to their individuality; Civilization symbolises their independence, freedom and enlightenment. Civilizations, being born from Narratives, stem in many forms and quality of existence, whether it be data, computer programs, or even a woven web of neurons which is the human mind. Civilizations all originate from fictional stories
told by other stories that have evolved beyond their fictional confinement through "ideas", thus "enlightenment" (hence, qualitative transcendence); the system was described as a huge web of formulated ideas, composed of Narratives in the form of individual fundamental information units named "free and independent people". The dialogue later implies that the hierarchy extends continuously like an endless evolving permutative sequence. Prometheus even posited an analogy with humans graduating from childhood, implying that they've discovered "ideas" and achieved "enlightenment", allowing them to evolve beyond their fictional states of existence.



The evolution of Civilizations occurred many times in history, whether it be any type of Civilisation, such as human Civilisation that woven its own meaning that allowed them to transcend the confinements of fiction. Human Civilisation formulated concepts that govern their ideals, such as faith and the economy, with "individuals" being free from those shackling concepts, such as the industry/supply and demand, "individual" branding, etc.



Herrschers belong to a Civilization but are not only unbounded by Project Stigma but exist as a complete opposite end directly being its antithesis, meaning they exist at the apex level of Project Stigma, considering Project Stigma was said to be a Narrative that forms all Narratives. In order to be free from the shackles of the paradoxical nature of the Honkai, one has to surpass Finality; Raiden Mei asks Prometheus about Project Stigma being something that can free them from the Honkai, then receives an affirmative answer from her that it indeed can surpass the paradoxical nature of the Honkai.



Part 4: Preemptively addressing potential arguments and "anti-feats" against this revision

Fiction waged war against reality and in a perpetual feud with humanity, those two entities controlling one another with no trouble, therefore disqualifies valid R>F transcendence for Project Stigma.

The reason why fiction was able to wage war against reality is because they attained the powers of the Honkai, which is a phenomenon that stemmed from the Imaginary Space which I already explained is a 1-A structure. Also, not to mention, I already mentioned the R>F evolution of Civilisations so even if we put them getting their hands on the Honkai aside, it'll very likely that they can interact with reality through "ideas" and "enlightenment", which are explained are methods of lower-fictional realities to attain R>F qualitative transcendence. The Honkai makes up the Herrschers and the Will of the Honkai acts as the Honkai ground zero, making up and controlling the relationship and link between base reality and the Imaginary Tree. The Imaginary Tree is the realm of GOD, and GOD is none other than the Will of the Honkai itself; it should be clear that the Will of Honkai has control over the entirety of the Imaginary Tree, and all Honkai stems from the Imaginary Tree and Imaginary Space.

Kevin was able to hurt the Herrscher Trio; all 3 of them had difficult defeating them. Therefore, qualitative superiority is disqualified.

Now, first of all, if you even came up with this type of argument then it is pretty obvious that you're not even remotely knowledgeable about Honkai Impact 3rd and really shouldn't be in a position to make such certain assumptions over information that you're not really knowledgable in.

Kevin Kaslana is one of the main executors of Project Stigma, being a crucial factor towards the project's sustainability. Not to mention he utilises the power of Project Stigma in his battle against the Herrscher Trio; it's currently even listed on his profile. Not to mention that Kevin wields the Divine Keys, unimaginably powerful equipment that is directly forged from Herrscher cores and harnesses the Honkai Energy of Herrschers, which is the entire reason why he can defeat and kill Herrschers of the previous era.

Otto Apocalypse was defeated by Kiana and Durandal.

Kiana defeated Otto Apocalypse as the Herrscher of Flamescion. I already presented on the OP that the Herrscher Authorities are concepts of the Imaginary Space, via being correspondent to the Imaginary Singularity. Not to mention that Herrschers are also mentioned to transcend dimensions, heavily implying correlation and origins to the Imaginary Space, which I also already presented earlier. Another thing to add is that Herrschers are disciples of the Will of the Honkai.

As for Durandal, even anyone who has a bit of knowledge about Honkai Impact 3rd knows that she is a long-term term extremely OP character with powers that rightfully rival that of the strongest Herrschers. One of the easiest explanations is that she retains the Abyss Flower, which is the 6th Divine Key. She also used the 2nd Divine Key, the Seed of Sumeru. Since she progressed and grew stronger through wielding the power of the Divine Keys, it's pretty obvious that she is capable of retaining power equivalent to the power of the Imaginary Space. Not to mention that all Valkyries harness Stigmatas to amplify their powers and adaptability with Honkai Energy, hence practically every Valkyrie could attain power from the Imaginary Space as long as they are strong and powerful enough, with sufficient potentials, such as powerhouses like Durandal. Additional information that should completely dissipate this counterargument for good, is that Durandal is entangled with Imaginary Space, thus she's pretty much an Imaginary entity; she also attained and wielded the powers of the Kaslana stigmata.

The Cocoon of Finality was swept away by the Sea of Quanta

There are honestly many interpretations of this and can easily be dismissed as an obvious outlier. Though, I think there is in-lore reasoning to it, as I explained here before.

One of the users here talked to me about the Cocoon of Finality being able to be washed away by the Sea of Quanta and fought against the Venusians. However, it should be addressed that the Cocoon of Finality was once initially an alien Civilization. It was said that the battle between the Cocoon of Finality and the Venusians occurred millions of years ago, even before the birth of the Previous Era Herrscher of Origin. Therefore, the Cocoon being swept away by the Sea of Quanta was chronologically before the states regarding the Herrscher of Finality, Narrator entity, omnipotence over all Honkai-related phenomena and transcendence over dimensions stuff. With that said, we can easily deduce that the battle occurred when the Cocoon of Finality was still an ancient Civilization, before it became a singular omnipresent entity within itself that caused it to ascend into "qualitative superiority".

Not to mention that Project Stigma establishes the R>F evolutions for Civilizations; the Cocoon of Finality was explicitly mentioned to be a Civilization, so there is pretty solid merit and implication that the Cocoon was a qualitatively inferior/lower R>F Civilization back then.

Another argument that can also be plausible but I'm struggling to find the scan for it, but this information was on the official Honkai wiki for quite a while, but only removed via the reasoning "it isn't trivia", which has nothing to do with the information being incorrect. The flood created from the Sea of Quanta was orchestrated by Sa, who retains up to ten percent of the Cocoon of Finality's power in the ancient past, which should obviously establish that they were in the same pool of existence as each other. The Cocoon of Finality (the Abyss) infected the Soul system, hence latched itself upon it; the goal of the Venusians was to expunge the Cocoon of Finality from the Soul System. Sa used her powers to harness the flooding powers of the Sea of Quanta into the Soul System, in-order to disconnect it from the Abyss via releasing its efficiency restriction.

Hence, summarising the issues with this counterargument:
1. The Cocoon of Finality was very likely a qualitatively inferior Civilisation back then.
2. Even with that aside, Sa, is an entity that has 10 percent of the Cocoon of Finality's power at the time.
3. Sa used her powers to harness the flooding power of the Sea of Quanta onto the Soul System that the Cocoon infected and latched onto, hence she's not even directly affecting the Cocoon of Finality itself.

Sparkle managed to hurt Vita

Okay, now firstly even if this was true, it would only apply to Vita. If you actually watch the scene, you'll realise that both of them aren't even fighting for real and are merely goofing around with each other -- Vita was only pretending to be hurt and fooled by Sparkle, toying with her like if Sparkle was her pet, nothing special. Another detail is that it's also questionable whether they even fought in the first place since the scene after their "fight" directly shifted to them driving their car.

Not to mention this counterargument also pertains to my previous debunk, where I addressed that Sa only possesses 10 percent of the Cocoon of Finality's power during its battle against the Venusians millions of years ago. As I said multiple times before, the Cocoon is very likely to be a qualitatively inferior entity that has not yet attained "ideas" or achieved "enlightenment" during that time. Therefore, neither Sa nor Vita would be 1-A or remotely scale to the rest of the characters.

Conclusion

The new cosmology will go like this:

The lowest level/layer of Civilizations of Project Stigma will be 11-C via being qualitative inferior since we're not including R>F evolution for them.

The second lowest level/layer of Civilizations of Project Stigma will be High 1-C at maximum since base reality is ontologically equivalent to this layer, where most of the series takes place. Baseline reality also contains the Sea of Quanta which is a cosmological structure that is already established as 11-dimensional. This should apply to the leaf worlds/universes of Honkai Impact 3rd and Honkai: Star Rail.

The third lowest level/layer of Civilizations of Project Stigma will be baseline 1-A, via 1 layer of R>F transcendence over base reality.
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The higher we go into the Civilizations hierarchy, the more layers of qualitative transcendence it will go. The hierarchy expands to "conceptual infinity", therefore the infinite R>F layered Civilizations will be baseline 1-A+ at least, via having at least countable infinite layers of R>F transcendence.

Imaginary Tree, Imaginary Space and Project Stigma: the absolute apex of Honkai Impact 3rd cosmology (excluding GGZ). The Imaginary Tree is said to be a sign of absolute infinity, with infinitely transfinite layers of transcendence over Civilizations and branch worlds. Project Stigma was stated to be the key to surpassing the Paradoxical Nature of the Honkai and overpowers even the Finality itself, referencing the current main storyline Herrscher/Cocoon of Finality (Kiana Kaslana), who has their existence equal to the Imaginary Tree, therefore the apex level of Project Stigma should have its existential nature be ontologically equal to the Imaginary Tree. With that said, all of those 3 aforementioned structures should have their ratings upgraded to 1-A+, with Absolute Infinite and Infinitely Transfinite layers above baseline 1-A.


Tally (Evaluating Staffs Only)

Agree: {DarkDragonMedeus, ActuallySpaceMan (1-A Imaginary Tree, haven't commented with Project Stigma)} (1)

Disagree: {} (0)
 
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I'm not gonna touch this shit, but if this get accepted, then cosmology page need to be made, seriously, a verse this big have no cosmology, explanation page/blog is crazy
Yeah, you're right. We got this at least, though it's quite outdated, I fit in some time to revise it at some point in the future.
 
Gonna be another funny situation where another bunch of 1-A+ character get slammed by mundane shit, if this get accepted

Wait, Tear of Themis is also in this multiverse?
Apparently, though, I don't think it'll ultimately matter since its irrelevant. I'll just delete any mentioning of Tears of Themis just in-case.
 
Hmm, anyway, i skim through the thread, too lazy to read scans so i just read the surface arguments, neutral on 1-A thing, High 1-C was talked too many so i have no comment, 11-C seem fine

Now 1-A+, via the logic alone, i disagree, because Absolute Infinity is math which again confirmed by character like Einstein. So the logic is Absolute Infinity over baseline 1-A is factually wrong, Absolute Infinity is just quantity thing with being absolutely being big in size, and thus Absolute Infinity here just mean larger in size, unfathomably large, but again, from 1-A upward, thing is about qualitative superior. The Tree being the source of concept isn't mean you have infinite layers of QS, cause Absolute Infinity is math term, it just make the baseline 1-A being "larger" not "layered", thus still baseline 1-A, assume 1-A get accepted here

Of course unless you decide to switch to different arguing angle, and arguing that Absolute Infinity isn't math term but abstract concept term, which however referring to Cantor's True Absolute Infinity, which is a philosophical concept about God being Absolute and Infinitely above everything, which in turn, land you in Tier 0 territory......so.....

Anyway i disagree with 1-A+ if 1-A get accepted, neutral with the rest
 
Of course unless you decide to switch to different arguing angle, and arguing that Absolute Infinity isn't math term but abstract concept term, which however referring to Cantor's True Absolute Infinity, which is a philosophical concept about God being Absolute and Infinitely above everything, which in turn, land you in Tier 0 territory......so.....
That's the old tiering system, my guy 😭
 
I have little knowledge of 1-A+ or higher, but if I understand correctly, if this is accepted then all the Low 1-A people become 1-A+, right?

Any other changes if this gets approved?
 
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That's the old tiering system, my guy 😭
It is the same, True Absolute Infinity is tier 0, literally the old tiering system is based on that ideal, current system isn't much different from old one. Absolute Infinity have two concepts, the Burali-Forti paradox which is mathematical concepts which land you to Low 1-C nowadays, and the True Absolute Infinity which is Cantor view on how God are, a philosophical concept, idea about Monad which land you to tier 0

Edit: Anyway this not related to thread so.....uh....
 
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I have little knowledge of 1-A+ or higher, but if I understand correctly, if this is accepted then all the Low 1-A people become 1-A+, right?

Any other changes if this gets approved?
Yes. Only characters who are Low 1-A.
 
Most likely one of my biggest projects by the end of this year and the start of the New Year. Credits to @Shiroiyo and @Frerty for being the life support of this CRT. Also thanks to @Enryu_The_Red_Tower, @Kubo423 and @ThanatosX for presenting a lot of useful information here too.

Let's start off with the basics first, there'll be more convincing details that'll all logically line up.

Part 1: The Imaginary Tree, the conceptual cosmic structure, predated absolutely everything; space-time, laws, concepts, etc.

The Imaginary Tree is the essence of absolute omnipresent existence, one that engulfs all worlds of Hoyoverse throughout all its metaseries (Honkai Impact 3rd, Honkai: Star Rail, and Genshin Impact).

The Concept of Time in each of the branch worlds/realms of the Imaginary Tree is fundamentally different, contrasting to the lead worlds (the standard Universe), having its own laws and notions of causality. Therefore, the worlds and Civilizations that are birthed from the Imaginary Tree take the form of branches, that are embedded across a different time axis, separate from that of the conventional concept of time. Hence, it is inaccessible since it doesn't exist in any accessible dimensions.

The Imaginary Tree is the instant of eternity, the start of the end and the origin of laws and truth, birthing the entirety of creation itself. The fundamental laws that govern the universe and the truth of all life came into existence from the predation of the Imaginary Tree.

The Imaginary Space, a supplementary concept of the Imaginary Tree, is an imaginary structure that governs the fundamental concept of the Imaginary, manifested through Imaginary numbers, stretches beyond and encompasses all structures that are formed from real numbers and information, even existing in infinite amounts itself. The Imaginary Space was already stated to be the origin of the Universe where all laws intervene, the other side of the world that exists beyond layers of rules, defying the laws of physics, and transcending concepts of time, even having its own notion of time itself.

Part 2: The Imaginary Tree/Imaginary Space is a void that consists of absolute nothingness and transcends reality

The very concept of Imaginary Space defies everything that originates and intertwines with reality. Fundamentally opposing all physical constants, the entirety of the real world and even existence itself.

The Imaginary Singularity is a point in the Imaginary Space that lacks any aspect of dimensional information, analogous to that of the Herrscher cores that is used by many Herrscher characters; Kiana, Mei, Bronya, etc.

The Imaginary Space is a void that is devoid of time and completely lacks any aspects of common sense. It is constituted of Absolute Nothingness, with the meaning of time there bypassing and defying conventional logic, eventually. time will lose its meaning and everything will be reduced to nothing in the Imaginary Space, with utterly nothing remaining and even diminishing the meaning of everything, only leaving oblivion.


The Imaginary Space transcends reality, the powers of the Imaginary Space extend beyond every aspect of reality, transcending even far beyond its margin. Otto Apocalypse needed to harness the powers of the Void in order to retrieve the absolute infinite powers of the Imaginary Tree. Herrscher Authorities also transcend all dimensions, corresponding to that of concepts of the Imaginary Space, such as the Imaginary Singularity.

It is already established from these continued series of approved content revision threads (first, second, third, fourth), that the Imaginary Tree exists on a plane of absolute infinity, its power representing a sign of absolute infinity, with transfinite layers of transcendence over normal worlds and Civilizations themselves. Hence, the Imaginary Tree and Space are already established as Low 1-A on the current cosmological scale.

Part 3: Project Stigma

This section is going to contain a shit ton of information and Imgur scans. All of the crucial evidence that directly mentions reality-fiction transcendences should be presented in this section, with most of the key information of Imaginary Tree birthing, containing and transcending infinite worlds/Civilizations being presented here, here, here and here. Anyway, let's start analysing this execration.

The lowest level of Project Stigma is the establishment of fiction, the fundamental basis and origins of all abstract concepts; "idea" is the fundamental core unit of Project Stigma, a contradictory concept (hence, logic-defying concept) and bestows characters "enlightenment", another conceptual unit derived from "idea" that eliminates the boundaries between reality and fiction by outlining another concept named "truth". With this information inferred, it can be postulated that this thing called "idea" grants a lower fictional being R>F transcendence, allowing them to interact with real entities of a higher R>F plane. Keep this in mind, this is crucial information to support and establish the logic of further content I'll present, for solidifying context and connecting shreds of evidence.



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The Civilizations of Project Stigma are referred to as stories, a system of worlds and dimensions that stems from fiction but tend to progress into further evolutionary states that allow them to transcend reality. Stories originate with the earliest concepts called "narratives".

Narratives are the fundamental building blocks of reality. They absolutely consist of everything that is within and beyond reality, establishing both fiction and reality-transcending worlds and dimensions. Prometheus stated that Civilizations are created by imaginary humans, which are entities part of the Imaginary Space as the name suggests. It is implied that the Civilizations function as a hierarchy, with each higher order of Civilization being more advanced and complex than the other. Not to mention Narratives are concepts that originated from the Imaginary Space, implied by the statement that Narratives have been harnessed by imaginary humans.

Narratives are created from the path of reason, also referred to as "reason" itself which directly correlates to the Herrscher of Reason, aka Bronya; the Herrscher of Reason authority allows Bronya to create anything, through control over Narratives.


Humanity's standards of the Narrative all revolve around imagined and unreal purposes and desires, making their fictional world and nature expand wildly. However, history freed and transcended humanity beyond its fictional Narrative, letting them become reality and ascend into a higher plane of qualitative existence.

The spirit of the Herrscher of Reason inherits reality and is deemed as the key to combat against Project Stigma. However, it's doubtful that Bronya can utilise the Herrscher of Reason's full-power, due to only having a distributed core being one of the remnants that were split 300000 times.

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Project Stigma is a structure that contains the hierarchy of all narratives. It was said to have been created by a "story" that governs all stories, referred to as the absolute idea of self-existence, a concept that signifies "conceptual infinity". Project Stigma contains multiple layers of Civilizations/stories, each transcending and spiralling on top of another, representing the Civilizations spiralling evolution, progression and acceleration of the growth of their existence beyond fiction. A higher story/Civilization views the story/Civilization below them as fiction and qualitatively inferior, telling its own story.

It should be mentioned that this subsection reckons back to the first relevant Imgur gallery shown in this section; fictional stories attaining "ideas", hence achieving enlightenment that allows them to qualitatively transcend above their fictional existence onto reality. In such case here, Prometheus explained that the story separated from the storyteller through its evolution and, therefore begins to tell its own story as if they became an R>F transcended entity that is qualitatively superior to their former self(ves).



All forms of Civilization come in the form of information and concepts, even with humans being individual data and having their own unique Narratives, allowing their own stories to be created that pertain to their individuality; Civilization symbolises their independence, freedom and enlightenment. Civilizations, being born from Narratives, stem in many forms and quality of existence, whether it be data, computer programs, or even a woven web of neurons which is the human mind. Civilizations all originate from fictional stories
told by other stories that have evolved beyond their fictional confinement through "ideas", thus "enlightenment" (hence, qualitative transcendence); the system was described as a huge web of formulated ideas, composed of Narratives in the form of individual fundamental information units named "free and independent people". The dialogue later implies that the hierarchy extends continuously like an endless evolving permutative sequence. Prometheus even posited an analogy with humans graduating from childhood, implying that they've discovered "ideas" and achieved "enlightenment", allowing them to evolve beyond their fictional states of existence.



The evolution of Civilizations occurred many times in history, whether it be any type of Civilisation, such as human Civilisation that woven its own meaning that allowed them to transcend the confinements of fiction. Human Civilisation formulated concepts that govern their ideals, such as faith and the economy, with "individuals" being free from those shackling concepts, such as the industry/supply and demand, "individual" branding, etc.



Herrschers belong to a Civilization but are not only unbounded by Project Stigma but exist as a complete opposite end directly being its antithesis, meaning they exist at the apex level of Project Stigma, considering Project Stigma was said to be a Narrative that forms all Narratives. In order to be free from the shackles of the paradoxical nature of the Honkai, one has to surpass Finality; Raiden Mei asks Prometheus about Project Stigma being something that can free them from the Honkai, then receives an affirmative answer from her that it indeed can surpass the paradoxical nature of the Honkai.


Will this have any additional powers for Imaginary Energy? Like changing the Conceptual Manipulation from "Limited" to just normal Type 1 CM?
Conclusion

The new cosmology will go like this:

The lowest level/layer of Civilizations of Project Stigma will be 11-C via being qualitative inferior since we're not including R>F evolution for them.

The second lowest level/layer of Civilizations of Project Stigma will be High 1-C at maximum since base reality is ontologically equivalent to this layer, where most of the series takes place. Baseline reality also contains the Sea of Quanta which is a cosmological structure that is already established as 11-dimensional. This should apply to the leaf worlds/universes of Honkai Impact 3rd and Honkai: Star Rail.

The third lowest level/layer of Civilizations of Project Stigma will be baseline 1-A, via 1 layer of R>F transcendence over base reality.
Curious, will anyone scale to baseline 1-A in either tier or hax potency?
 
Will this have any additional powers for Imaginary Energy? Like changing the Conceptual Manipulation from "Limited" to just normal Type 1 CM?
I'll have to create a separate CRT about it since I didn't concisely analyse that part. Not to mention I have doubts about it since Narratives are something that can only be manipulated through Project Stigma and Imaginary Honkai Energy, which wouldn't expand to ordinary Imaginary Energy like the ones seen in HSR. However, aside from this, I can expect a few decent upgrades for Imaginary Energy at least.
Curious, will anyone scale to baseline 1-A in either tier or hax potency?
Not as I know it.
 
i rly cant agree with project sigma r>f evolution since we dont even know which civilizations are 11-C, High 1-C let alone 1-A, on top of that that project was litteraly stopped and only cof kiana got its remnants so it scales to her only and kevin, also theres already plenty of proof that civilizations on leaf worlds on IT are at least 2-A (IT theory from hsr, ottos analogy of IT, Su abt tree in second key) and the fact PO (primordial one) in Genshin splitting rest of genshin universe (3 realms) from rest of cosmology.

1-A+ should mostly scale to hi3 finality trio, finality kevin, durandal, PE Finality and False God otto, the rest im okay with
 
i rly cant agree with project sigma r>f evolution since we dont even know which civilizations are 11-C, High 1-C let alone 1-A, on top of that that project was litteraly stopped and only cof kiana got its remnants so it scales to her only and kevin, also theres already plenty of proof that civilizations on leaf worlds on IT are at least 2-A (IT theory from hsr, ottos analogy of IT, Su abt tree in second key) and the fact PO (primordial one) in Genshin splitting rest of genshin universe (3 realms) from rest of cosmology.
Most Civilisations of the Imaginary Tree and bubble Universes of the Sea of Quanta are 2-A. Leaf worlds are 2-A, though Civilisations can also take the form of branch worlds, which most likely signify Universes of higher R>F, and the Imaginary Tree's conceptual "meaningless" time axis is something akin to Project Stigmata. Project Stigma was stopped by the Herrscher Trio and Durandal, though, it doesn't change the fact it was a project that involved Civilisations of R>F evolution.
1-A+ should mostly scale to hi3 finality trio, finality kevin, durandal, PE Finality and False God otto, the rest im okay with
Yeah.
 
Part 1: The Imaginary Tree, the conceptual cosmic structure, predated absolutely everything; space-time, laws, concepts, etc.

The Imaginary Tree is the essence of absolute omnipresent existence, one that engulfs all worlds of Hoyoverse throughout all its metaseries (Honkai Impact 3rd, Honkai: Star Rail, and Genshin Impact).

The Concept of Time in each of the branch worlds/realms of the Imaginary Tree is fundamentally different, contrasting to the lead worlds (the standard Universe), having its own laws and notions of causality. Therefore, the worlds and Civilizations that are birthed from the Imaginary Tree take the form of branches, that are embedded across a different time axis, separate from that of the conventional concept of time. Hence, it is inaccessible since it doesn't exist in any accessible dimensions.

The Imaginary Tree is the instant of eternity, the start of the end and the origin of laws and truth, birthing the entirety of creation itself. The fundamental laws that govern the universe and the truth of all life came into existence from the predation of the Imaginary Tree.

The Imaginary Space, a supplementary concept of the Imaginary Tree, is an imaginary structure that governs the fundamental concept of the Imaginary, manifested through Imaginary numbers, stretches beyond and encompasses all structures that are formed from real numbers and information, even existing in infinite amounts itself. The Imaginary Space was already stated to be the origin of the Universe where all laws intervene, the other side of the world that exists beyond layers of rules, defying the laws of physics, and transcending concepts of time, even having its own notion of time itself.
I can follow this, seems legit so far.
Part 2: The Imaginary Tree/Imaginary Space is a void that consists of absolute nothingness and transcends reality

The very concept of Imaginary Space defies everything that originates and intertwines with reality. Fundamentally opposing all physical constants, the entirety of the real world and even existence itself.

The Imaginary Singularity is a point in the Imaginary Space that lacks any aspect of dimensional information, analogous to that of the Herrscher cores that is used by many Herrscher characters; Kiana, Mei, Bronya, etc.

The Imaginary Space is a void that is devoid of time and completely lacks any aspects of common sense. It is constituted of Absolute Nothingness, with the meaning of time there bypassing and defying conventional logic, eventually. time will lose its meaning and everything will be reduced to nothing in the Imaginary Space, with utterly nothing remaining and even diminishing the meaning of everything, only leaving oblivion.

The Imaginary Space transcends reality, the powers of the Imaginary Space extend beyond every aspect of reality, transcending even far beyond its margin. Otto Apocalypse needed to harness the powers of the Void in order to retrieve the absolute infinite powers of the Imaginary Tree. Herrscher Authorities also transcend all dimensions, corresponding to that of concepts of the Imaginary Space, such as the Imaginary Singularity.

It is already established from these continued series of approved content revision threads (first, second, third, fourth), that the Imaginary Tree exists on a plane of absolute infinity, its power representing a sign of absolute infinity, with transfinite layers of transcendence over normal worlds and Civilizations themselves. Hence, the Imaginary Tree and Space are already established as Low 1-A on the current cosmological scale.
Again, easy enough to follow, Low 1-A makes sense.
Part 3: Project Stigma

This section is going to contain a shit ton of information and Imgur scans. All of the crucial evidence that directly mentions reality-fiction transcendences should be presented in this section, with most of the key information of Imaginary Tree birthing, containing and transcending infinite worlds/Civilizations being presented here, here, here and here. Anyway, let's start analysing this execration.

The lowest level of Project Stigma is the establishment of fiction, the fundamental basis and origins of all abstract concepts; "idea" is the fundamental core unit of Project Stigma, a contradictory concept (hence, logic-defying concept) and bestows characters "enlightenment", another conceptual unit derived from "idea" that eliminates the boundaries between reality and fiction by outlining another concept named "truth". With this information inferred, it can be postulated that this thing called "idea" grants a lower fictional being R>F transcendence, allowing them to interact with real entities of a higher R>F plane. Keep this in mind, this is crucial information to support and establish the logic of further content I'll present, for solidifying context and connecting shreds of evidence.
Based on what I grasped, OP is saying ideas can allow for fictional beings, to transcend to higher realities. They aren't doing so through their own power, so it's not a violation of R > F. At the same time, this could also just be interpreted as a philosophical discussion.

Anyway after reading through everything regarding Project Stigma, my main concern is trying to separate how much of this is a philosophical discussion and how much of it is literal. If you go in with R > F in mind, you can see where the OP is coming from. But this also feels like something that could just be a super long conversation about civilizations and the advancement of humanity, etc.

I haven't played the games, I don't know the story or anything like that, so I can't tell which is which.
 
I can follow this, seems legit so far.
This one is about establishing imaginary space/imaginary tree as a 1-A qualitatively superior structure, so if I understand correctly you agree with at least baseline 1-A Imaginary Tree/Space right?
Based on what I grasped, OP is saying ideas can allow for fictional beings, to transcend to higher realities. They aren't doing so through their own power, so it's not a violation of R > F. At the same time, this could also just be interpreted as a philosophical discussion.

Anyway after reading through everything regarding Project Stigma, my main concern is trying to separate how much of this is a philosophical discussion and how much of it is literal. If you go in with R > F in mind, you can see where the OP is coming from. But this also feels like something that could just be a super long conversation about civilizations and the advancement of humanity, etc.

I haven't played the games, I don't know the story or anything like that, so I can't tell which is which.
Most of the scans are from Chapters 32-33; I don't recall it being a philosophical discussion about human civilisation in general, since much of the wording rather infers to in-verse terminology and things such as "narratives", "ideas" all being in paratheses, thus referring to it as some kind of in-verse concept. I'll delve into the videos and see what details that can find, to make it less flowery looking.
 
This one is about establishing imaginary space/imaginary tree as a 1-A qualitatively superior structure, so if I understand correctly you agree with at least baseline 1-A Imaginary Tree/Space right?
The issue with that is that the Imaginary Tree is said to be infinite in a transfinite sense, which is quantitative, not qualitative.
Most of the scans are from Chapters 32-33; I don't recall it being a philosophical discussion about human civilisation in general, since much of the wording rather infers to in-verse terminology and things such as "narratives", "ideas" all being in paratheses, thus referring to it as some kind of in-verse concept. I'll delve into the videos and see what details that can find, to make it less flowery looking.
If you can find something like that I agree.
 
The issue with that is that the Imaginary Tree is said to be infinite in a transfinite sense, which is quantitative, not qualitative.
The qualitative superiority comes from the Imaginary Space being a void consisting of nothingness, with the meaning of time being devoid and having its own concept of causality. Being rules above rules, the origin and predating practically everything in creation, even the discrete concepts of time that are across all base realities. The Absolute Infinite, transfinite and transcendence over reality statements are rather used as further context to support it being a higher reality, surpassing lower base reality, not necessarily the main arguments. All of it should be thoroughly explained in Part 1 and Part 2 of my OP post.

Something like that is indeed 1-A.
If you can find something like that I agree.


I suppose you can watch a few minutes from here. The context doesn't seem to be flowery, even the minor details mentioned the Herrscher of Reason's core is a story and composed of narratives, her powers of creation originating and part of stories, narratives being referred to as something fundamentally abstract that composes stories/civilisations, etc.

This should also help (you can watch a few minutes in to grasp sufficient context), as it is the full video dialogue for this scan that's at the start of my Part 3 of the OP:



I think this could possibly, also help:

 
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The qualitative superiority comes from the Imaginary Space being a void consisting of nothingness, with the meaning of time being devoid and having its own concept of causality. Being rules above rules, the origin and predating practically everything in creation, even the discrete concepts of time that are across all base realities. The Absolute Infinite, transfinite and transcendence over reality statements are rather used as further context to support it being a higher reality, surpassing lower base reality, not necessarily the main arguments. All of it should be thoroughly explained in Part 1 and Part 2 of my OP post.

Something like that is indeed 1-A.
The issue is that they can't be used as further context to support it being a higher reality, since they make it very clear and the things below it are comparable. An infinite gap, a transfinite gap, an absolute infinite gap are large, sure, but still comparable all the same since all those things are qualitative. Any statements of transcendence the Imaginary Space or Tree has that use these examples are anti-feats for 1-A, so they need to be disproved somehow.
 
The issue is that they can't be used as further context to support it being a higher reality, since they make it very clear and the things below it are comparable. An infinite gap, a transfinite gap, an absolute infinite gap are large, sure, but still comparable all the same since all those things are qualitative. Any statements of transcendence the Imaginary Space or Tree has that use these examples are anti-feats for 1-A, so they need to be disproved somehow.
No, anything that is below the composition of the Imaginary Tree is not ontologically comparable to the Imaginary Tree in any sense. I think you already read the scans and approved of the Imaginary Tree being something that fundamentally defies and transcends reality, being the origin of all creation that is above layers of rules and concepts. Then again, I'm not using the statements of transfinity and absolute infinities to establish it being 1-A; the Imaginary Tree was said to be a symbol of "Absolute Infinity", hinting at its superior power but not stated as something that quantitatively transcends base reality. The Transfinite layers statements directly mentioned the Honkai of base reality, which I proved is a concept that directly originates from the Imaginary Space, hence not an anti-feat.

Simply because the concept of numbers is being used to describe and analogue something shouldn't be a basis to disqualify qualitative superiority. It is also the reason why we can have multiple layers into 1-A as if it is analogous to multiple dimensions, up to even infinite amounts of it. Sure, anything quantitative that is part of the lower reality does disqualify qualitative superiority, however, qualitative transcendence doesn't even remotely eliminate the concept of numbers or quantity; you can still express layers of realities/fictions using quantity placeholders. There would be anti-feats for 1-A if it was mentioned that the Imaginary Space was Absolute Infinite times above base reality, hence inferring quantities of lower compositions of reality -- or if it was mentioned that Imaginary Tree was "transfinitely infinite" times above the Earth (without any mentioning of the Honkai), then it would be disqualifiers, however, I already addressed it isn't the case here. Also, I don't even recall when it was mentioned that the Imaginary Tree transcends reality and dimensions in a quantitative sense.
 
I don't think we should use the conversation in chapter 33 as being literal. I remember there is a reddit post that explains the narrative that Prometheus refers to are the idea that people come up with and the communication, language between people. They are not about literal stories or something else.
I'll look at the Project Stigma stuff later.
You can read the whole thing here for better context (The section "Gameplay 33-5 - Beyond Reality").
 
I don't think we should use the conversation in chapter 33 as being literal. I remember there is a reddit post that explains the narrative that Prometheus refers to are the idea that people come up with and the communication, language between people. They are not about literal stories or something else.

You can read the whole thing here for better context (The section "Gameplay 33-5 - Beyond Reality").
Site your sources and we can talk from there. Straight-up linking Fandom wiki articles aren't valid evidence itself, Honkai Impact 3rd Archives is not an official wiki.

Also, Reddit is quite notorious for its disturbing controversy and rabbit holes, I may can or may not already imagine the abomination presented in that Reddit post you mentioned.
 
The higher we go into the Civilizations hierarchy, the more layers of qualitative transcendence it will go. The hierarchy expands to "conceptual infinity", therefore the infinite R>F layered Civilizations will be baseline 1-A+ at least, via having at least countable infinite layers of R>F transcendence.
1-A is pretty much solid and outright. But 1-A+ is kinda far stretch. Conceptual infinity & Upward spiral civilizations alone just not enough imo as we can't prove whether these higher civilizations exist or not. How does that work exactly? How does that qualify for 1-A+ without proving infinite R>F hierarchy civlizations?
 
But 1-A+ is kinda far stretch. Conceptual infinity & Upward spiral civilizations alone just not enough imo as we can't prove whether these higher civilizations exist or not. How does that work exactly? How does that qualify for 1-A+ without proving infinite R>F hierarchy civlizations?
I mean... they were mentioned to have evolved from fiction to realities, then layers up layers so on and forth, so there wouldn't be a logical reason to assume they don't exist unless you're a nihilist unless further debunking evidence says otherwise. It was mentioned the stories/civilizations hierarchy of Project Stigmata spirals its evolution up to "Conceptual Infinity", closely implying infinite of those R>F evolutionary Civilisations exist, hence 1-A+.

Also, you can't get 1-A+ without infinite qualitative transcending layers.
 
Hey... I am nihilistic... actually.

But everything heavily indicates that they exist, especially with the Fiction and Reality Stories and Honkai affecting them directly
 
Hey... I am nihilistic... actually.
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