About "Strongest in the Universe" statements

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

While this was on my mind, I wanted to make a thread for this before I lost my train of thought.

So im sure everyone here knows about statements where a character may say they, or someone else, is "the strongest in the universe". And we always treated those kinds of statements as nothing more than a grain of salt, definitely not anything worth a tier like 3-A or Low 2-C. At least while I was here before anyway. But this hit me and I would like to get an answer for this.

While someone saying they or their power are "the strongest in the universe" doesnt make them Universe level or anything, couldnt we actually apply a standard tier for this as a minimum? Think about it like this. Someone says that an x power is "the strongest force in the Universe". And in the Universe, we have strong forces at play like stars exploding as supernovas, black holes, etc. If someone says that they are the strongest in the universe, or their strength is unparalled compared to anything else in their universe, wouldnt this mean that their strength is at least stronger than any force thats withi the Universe? It wouldnt make them 3-A or anything like that, but it could make them, say, 4-C? If their strength is the strongest in their universe, they should at least be superior to in-universe forces like supernovas and what not.

To sum my point up, im asking if instead of keeping these kinds of statements un-tierable, we could give them a tier like 4-C as a minimum for being superior to any kind of force that lies within the universe itself.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think "Strongest in the Universe" if taken literally would just mean strongest character in the universe unless there's other back up statements. Even the "strongest in the Universe" characters have been shown to not be totally invincible or aren't immune to environmental hazards. If there are statements such as, "Nothing in the Universe can scratch him" that would hold more weight but I think even that might be vague.

And also, keep in mind that surviving Back Holes would be High 3-A assuming they are real black holes.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

That I can agree with and find understandable, but what about cases where if a character says a power is the "Strongest force in the Universe?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

That also might be a bit vague; however,I will say that being capable of destroying every celestial object in the universe over time would be 4-B. The most durable star in the universe being the PSR J0348+0432 has a GBE of 6.1496549*10^46 Joules or 614.96549 Foe.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

This should probably have more staff opinions me thinks. Kind of made this in a rush.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It's fine, but I agree that more staff questions would be appreciated.

 

[Andytrenom]

If it's just a throwaway statement, it would obviously not mean anything due to likely being a hyperbole

If it's taken seriously I still generally wouldn't treat it as anything more than supporting evidence for a high tier

Interesting fact, there is a character I've been building up in my head whose deal is that since he is the evolution of humans to the point that nothing in the universe can threaten them, he lacks things like compassion, fear and social obligations due to them being unnecessary for survival now. I am curious on whether the thread's proposal would apply to someone like him but I'm not really expecting it to tbh.

 

[The_Causality]

IMO, this kind of statement can't be treated literally, most of time, the strongest in the universe mean "the strongest being" not "the strongest thing" and this kind of statement need to be literally, for exemple I don't think This kind of statement, whatever the level can be counted.

 

[Andytrenom]

Tfw When Kukui specifically said he wasn't talking about strongest being but strongest force

 

[The_Causality]

Ow

In this case, what is the strongest thing in the Universe?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Obviously if its just a poetic or hyperbolic statement, this proposal of mine wouldnt apply. And this would definitely need to be a case by case basis thing.

What im more so asking about is if someone, or something, is called the strongest in their universe because of their power. Having forces that surpasses anything withi the universe. Or if a character has cosmic level power and they are called the strongest in the universe. Whichever one you take, if they hold the strongest power in the universe, why would it be farfetched to say that their power surpasses all in-universe phenomina like supernovas for example?

 

[Andytrenom]

Do we assume someone whose "power surpasses all else in the world" can be scaled to tier 6 hurricanes? Do we assume someone who "cannot be stopped by anyone in the world" is scalable to nuclear explosions unless directly stated?

We just tend to have a safer approach in evaluating feats, by using direct comparisions instead of speculation.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I say this is just a throw away statement unless we know how powerful this force is. Or how strong the characters are. Say we have a verse full of 7-A's and nothing higher, someone being stated to being the "Strongest force in the universe" should still be considered 7-A, simply to a higher degree. There is no need for some baseline tier here.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I say this is just a throw away statement unless we know how powerful this force is. Or how strong the characters are. Say we have a verse full of 7-A's and nothing higher, someone being stated to being the "Strongest force in the universe" should still be considered 7-A, simply to a higher degree. There is no need for some baseline tier here.

Even if the verse in question involves cosmic-tier phenomina?

Like say if the verse was with beings who arent just confined to a setting like Earth and go battle on different planets, star systems, galaxies, different dimensions, etc.

 

[Wokistan]

If there's reason to consider them legit, just scale this guy above the next strongest one there is.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

That to me could come off as kind of downplayish though.

Because if we're just gonna selectively scale them to other beings instead of other forces, then they don't actually have the "strongest force" in their universe, they'd just be the strongest amongst their race or wherever it is they originate from.

In other words, they wouldnt have the strongest power in the "universe", but just the strongest power in their confined setting.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

We should simply scale them to the highest power in the verse. And that's assuming this is not Hyperbole. You're asking for specific examples when it's a case-by-case scenario that should not be treated as a standard as it can easily lead to extrapolation and wank moreso than it could lead to downplay.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

There still needs to be more elaborate context. As Dragon Master said, the strongest character being 7-A would make the "Strongest in the Universe" 7-A. Although, if there are super weapons that are well above that; like Tier 6 or Tier 5, then they could perhaps scale from that if it's implied not even those weapons do nothing to them. But I will say that Amon (StarCraft) for example does have a 4-B rating based on a statement; "It would be easier to destroy every star in the galaxy then it is to destroy Amon".

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yes but the probem is, if you're supposed to have the strongest power in the "universe" (again, under the assumption that this isnt hyperbole), why shouldnt it apply to the entire universe? The verse being full of 7-A's isnt something that applies to their entire universe as a whole, only the world that the characters are restricted to. Like for instance, if a verse's setting takes place on Earth, and the characters from said setting are 7-A like you said, that means that the tier 7-A only applies to the setting they come from, Earth.

If a character at some point is then legitimately treated as having the strongest power in the entire universe, then their power isnt just confined to Earth, it would go for everything else in the universe as well, or else they wouldnt be the strongest in the universe afterall.

Now if they were said to be the strongest in the world, then thats where I agree they'd just be a higher end of 7-A since "world" in this context would be talking about only earth, where everyone else is 7-A.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Dude, you realize this issues with your reasoning?

"The verse being full of 7-A's isnt something that applies to their entire universe as a whole, only the world that the characters are restricted to. Like for instance, if a verse's setting takes place on Earth, and the characters from said setting are 7-A like you said, that means that the tier 7-A only applies to the setting they come from, Earth."

So basically, you're telling us to account for beings outside of Earth. Beings we have no idea who they are and how strong they are. You want us to base a rating off of that. Please tell me you're joking here. This is basically telling us to assume "Hey! There are beings far above 7-A out there, I dunno how strong they are, but they are far beyond 7-A. Let's just put Hamster Hammington at 3-A seeing as he's stated by many sources to be the strongest power in the universe."

"If a character at some point is then legitimately treated as having the strongest power in the entire universe, then their power isnt just confined to Earth, it would go for everything else in the universe as well, or else they wouldnt be the strongest in the universe afterall."

The issue is that we only have Earth to go by. Strongest Power in the universe doesn't mean we just automatically assume there are stronger beings out there compared to the Earth characters. Why? Because the people who are 7-A from Earth hold the only feats we have.

"Now if they were said to be the strongest in the world, then thats where I agree they'd just be a higher end of 7-A since "world" in this context would be talking about only earth, where everyone else is 7-A."

Location doesn't matter. What matters is feats. If there is nothing supporting any being outside of Earth being superior to the Earthlings and have feats to back it up, guess what? This strongest force in the universe is 7-A at most.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It's feats and/or in depth lore is what holds all the of weight rather than basic statements. Being "Strongest in world" makes no sense, but being "Immune to every firearm known to man" could make someone 7-B or 7-A in a modern setting. Or if the statement was specific saying that they're more powerful then every star in the universe, then it could be Tier 4.

 

[Wokistan]

If there's a character that only knows about the existence of 7-A dudes and says someone's the strongest in the universe we can't scale to jimmy galaxyeater over on mars just because he exists. You gotta take who's making statements into account, how reliable they are, and what they're actually qualified to say based on the knowledge they have.