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about barrier of goku, vegeta & vegito
- Thread starter HrishikeshM
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This is not the same as the Vice Shout because is contraddicted by the fact that Gohan was unable to make a forcefield, which repels poisons against Lavender, Goku and Vegeta did so to counter him later since Goku saw Gohan battle, the barrier that Vegito made is unique to him.
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Unable? Or just didn't have time to do it on the spot when he never attempted or thought of doing that ?
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But...that kinda goes against your point. P-Cell, being composed of the same things that give the twins their power (and the twins themselves), is capable of doing the Perfect Barrier, while 17 can only do the Android Barrier. Switch names around and you kinda made your own counterargument...AKM sama said:
I was actually on your side because I thought that Perfect Barrier and Android Barrier were fundamentally the same, just with different names due to their respective users.
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I agree with this--Buu-Saga Vegetto and TOP Goku and Vegeta should def. have both poison negation and absorption negation listed next to their forcefield creation power.
As for why Gohan didn't make a barrier, A) Gohan didn't know about the poison before he was hit, and B) the poison was already spreading by the time he did realize it.
..As concerns the (slightly derailing) topic of Android Barrier v. Perfect Barrier, I direct you to recent Super stuff, wherein 17 is capable of doing all sorts of things with the Android Barrier that we never see from Cell's Perfect Barrier.
As for why Gohan didn't make a barrier, A) Gohan didn't know about the poison before he was hit, and B) the poison was already spreading by the time he did realize it.
..As concerns the (slightly derailing) topic of Android Barrier v. Perfect Barrier, I direct you to recent Super stuff, wherein 17 is capable of doing all sorts of things with the Android Barrier that we never see from Cell's Perfect Barrier.
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I don't think that supports your point, bro. You kinda need to point out them having the same functionality to convince us. Not different functions.Korudo Daio said:
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That's what I meant. I was pointing out how they're obviously *not* the same.
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Gohan probably doesn't know how to create a barrier and he has never shown to create a barrier anyway. So Gohan doesn't get this because it is exclusive to the only beings who have shown to make the same barrier Vegito and later Goku and Vegeta made.
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Then why would Vegeta's/Goku's be the same as Vegito's when the latter has shown techniques the other two haven't? (i.e.: Kuwabara ripoff Spirit Sword)
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@Cal
I'll have to get back to you afterwards about Cell and 17, as I'll have to check it in the manga to be 100% sure.
EDIT: Goku and Vegeta literally have the same barrier as Vegito. There is visual proof of that. I am not talking about any techniques which they haven't shown like ki sword or stuff like that. But both Goku and Vegeta have shown to use the SAME barrier as Vegito.
I'll have to get back to you afterwards about Cell and 17, as I'll have to check it in the manga to be 100% sure.
EDIT: Goku and Vegeta literally have the same barrier as Vegito. There is visual proof of that. I am not talking about any techniques which they haven't shown like ki sword or stuff like that. But both Goku and Vegeta have shown to use the SAME barrier as Vegito.
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- Thread starter
- #54
no there is no scaling involved here. only 3 beings have shown to create that kind of barrier...so it only applies to those 3.
the barrier has properties of negating poison and absorption. and that's it. no scaling, only feats.
the barrier has properties of negating poison and absorption. and that's it. no scaling, only feats.
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- #55
>"They are both close-to-the-skin, white colored slightly moving things."
this. and using the animation differences of dbz and dbs to say they are differently animated would be a major major nitpick
this. and using the animation differences of dbz and dbs to say they are differently animated would be a major major nitpick
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See, I was with your first comment, and agreed at the time, but after everyone else pointed out that 17 and Perfect Cell's barriers acted different despite likely having the same roots (he couldn't do it before absorbing the Androids, hence the name [and that it's only used by [Super] Perfect Cell]), why would this be any different?
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- #58
this thread is not about cell's or 17's barriers. idk and idc why they are assumed to be different but in this case, vegito's barrier and goku's/vegeta's barriers are same... so should have same properties.
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In this instance, there's nothing visibly different between Vegetto's and Goku/Vegeta's barrier, while there are heavy visible differences between 17's barrier and Cell's.
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In that case, you have my support.
With that being said, Buu's absorption after the initial well...absorption, is weird, in the sense that those absorbed are in...pods(?) iirc. Idk. Never finished the Buu Saga. Could never get past the part where Spopovich literally stomps Videl (funny enough, I stopped watching at Shin, because I thought he was gonna be evil, and I only knew of Kibito Kai as the fusion itself rather than the fusees). ...I'm digressing.
Point is, given that Buu doesn't make the victims a literal part of him until much later and are just in a pseudostate inside pods until they're lost forever, how strong would said barriers be? How would it hold up against Specimen 8? Kirby? Lavos?
With that being said, Buu's absorption after the initial well...absorption, is weird, in the sense that those absorbed are in...pods(?) iirc. Idk. Never finished the Buu Saga. Could never get past the part where Spopovich literally stomps Videl (funny enough, I stopped watching at Shin, because I thought he was gonna be evil, and I only knew of Kibito Kai as the fusion itself rather than the fusees). ...I'm digressing.
Point is, given that Buu doesn't make the victims a literal part of him until much later and are just in a pseudostate inside pods until they're lost forever, how strong would said barriers be? How would it hold up against Specimen 8? Kirby? Lavos?
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They're still considered fully "absorbed", as Buu gains their respective intelligences, memories, techniques, and even clothes, in a manner similar to Kirby's. That Kirby happens to swallow you into a pocket dimension, and that Buu keeps you inside his body until you're unrecognizable from another part of him, is a bit of splitting hairs. In either instance, escape is impossible, and the essence of 'you' is already in full use by the person who absorbed you.
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Damn Cal, you didn't complete Z? lol
Well, like ^ said, it still classifies as absorption, just different method. That goes for all verses, there are many different kinds of methods but the end result is same, absorption.
Well, like ^ said, it still classifies as absorption, just different method. That goes for all verses, there are many different kinds of methods but the end result is same, absorption.
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I think what this would mean, if we were to, say, theoretically put Vegeta up against Kirby, Vegeta's barrier wouldn't prevent him from being sucked into Kirby's pocket dimension, but it would prevent Kirby from using Vegeta's power and the like, and Vegeta could (likely) use Portal Creation to escape.
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- #64
great, so glad that we all can agree to this. so can the changes be carried out?
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- #66
k sure
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- #68
k sure
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Yeah, I'm fine with this. I can add it to Vegito, Goku, and Vegeta's pages soon. Not now (I'm busy), but soon.
"His forcefields can keep out poisons and render absorption ineffective"
"His forcefields can keep out poisons and render absorption ineffective"
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I'm fine with adding "forcefields which protects them towards poison" for both goku and vegeta.
But not the latter, since the barrier Vegito displayed is unique for him alone. Protection against Absorption isnt the same.
One cannot assume the structure of all barriers are the same, that is far to inaccurate.
But not the latter, since the barrier Vegito displayed is unique for him alone. Protection against Absorption isnt the same.
One cannot assume the structure of all barriers are the same, that is far to inaccurate.
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A) there is no visible difference between the barrier Vegetto used to avoid being absorbed by Buu and the ones Goku and Vegeta used to protect themselves from poison.ProspectX said:
B) Tournament of Power Goku and Vegeta outclass Buu-Saga Vegetto, and with greater ki control. There is 0 reason why this barrier that looks exactly the same shouldn't function exactly the same.
C) We aren't assuming all barriers in DB have these properties, only the ones displayed by the fusion Vegetto, and the two fusees that make Vegetto, Goku and Vegeta. This will only apply to Tournament of Power Arc Goku and Vegeta, and Buu Saga/Zamasu Arc Vegetto.
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- #74
none assumed the structure of all barriers to be the same
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the term "barrier" is just a defensive space zone for many intentive reasons, in this case with ki. But ki as seen can take many shapes, and it can change it's properities easly.
Goku and Vegeta =|= Vegito. It's illogical to say that they have the same ability as him, but however Vegito does have the same initial abilities as them, with much more of his own. Remember that he is a completely different being.
it's not about power but about the quality of the barrier. The structure ca very much be different. One cannot assume solely based on the colour and just shape of the barrier in itself, but feats when it's put in action.
Goku and Vegeta =|= Vegito. It's illogical to say that they have the same ability as him, but however Vegito does have the same initial abilities as them, with much more of his own. Remember that he is a completely different being.
it's not about power but about the quality of the barrier. The structure ca very much be different. One cannot assume solely based on the colour and just shape of the barrier in itself, but feats when it's put in action.
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- #76
the colour, shape and size form an integral part of the visual proof.
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- #79
k there is visual proof that the barrier is same.
it makes complete sense for them to be same because vegito is composed of goku and vegeta
have you any proof of it being not the same? your assumption seems to be quite a reach because like akm sama said above, a sensu bean looks exactly the same as other sensu bean, it does not have to proove its property everytime. we can see it visually and understand that it works just like before.
it makes complete sense for them to be same because vegito is composed of goku and vegeta
have you any proof of it being not the same? your assumption seems to be quite a reach because like akm sama said above, a sensu bean looks exactly the same as other sensu bean, it does not have to proove its property everytime. we can see it visually and understand that it works just like before.
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My assumption?
A "senzu bean" can easly be swapped for another bean in the food chain. If for comical sakes, korin has many cans which may contain different types of beans. Goku causally takes a bean by mistake in some can that isnt the senzu bean ca. And for some reason its identically the same visually.
But that isnt relevant, for the term "senzu beans" will never be used in such events. That one sees a senzu bean visually means the affirmation of that senzu bean. That is a senzu bean, it is ridiculous for one to to contradict that fact unless it doesnt show the same regenerative effect.
However Ki, which can take many variations, shapes and properties shouldnt be judged on appearance alone. But feats.
Absorption =/= Poison.
A "senzu bean" can easly be swapped for another bean in the food chain. If for comical sakes, korin has many cans which may contain different types of beans. Goku causally takes a bean by mistake in some can that isnt the senzu bean ca. And for some reason its identically the same visually.
But that isnt relevant, for the term "senzu beans" will never be used in such events. That one sees a senzu bean visually means the affirmation of that senzu bean. That is a senzu bean, it is ridiculous for one to to contradict that fact unless it doesnt show the same regenerative effect.
However Ki, which can take many variations, shapes and properties shouldnt be judged on appearance alone. But feats.
Absorption =/= Poison.
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