About Aizens existence erasure

[DavidTPPM]

I was going through some profiles for series I've read but never actually scaled and I noticed this on Aizens profile.

• Possibly Passive Existence Erasure (Aizen's Reiatsu is so potent that things that get near his body are erased[40])

What I don't understand is, how is that even remotely enough to give him existence erasure? Now I am a VERY casual Bleach reader but I genuinely don't remember a single EE feat for Aizen in the entire manga. The statement linked to the ability is also very weak. Aizen states

Any human who comes in contact with me will cease to exist

The term cease to exist is very commonly used to refer to regular destruction. According to the dictionary of Cambridge it can mean "perish", "be destroyed", "crumble", etc.

The context doesn't make this seem like some sort of introduction to a new important ability (it's just a one-off statement Aizen tells to a fodder) and this ability doesn't seem to ever be addressed again in the manga after this. He also only says "any HUMAN" not "everything".
Furthermore the scan also kind of contradicts that. We see Kanonji attack Aizen and try to hit him with his staff which results in this:

His staff starts getting destroyed, but more importantly, it doesn't seem to be "erased". What I circled appears to be very clear fragmentation which should not exist if the destroyed part of the staff truly got completely erased out of existence.

So the question is, why do we actually give him existence erasure? The statement seems like pretty standard flowery wording, he's never actually shown to erase someone from existence, and we see a staff that he should have been erased still exist in a form of fragments after interacting with Aizen. Are there missing scans from the profile?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I always thought that too, but i'm sure it would create huge chaos...

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Existence Erasure is the simple power to remove something from existence, leaving nothing behind, a level of destruction beyond incineration, vaporization, and atomization. Rather than just reducing something to its constituent parts, this ability leaves absolutely nothing behind.

It's not an Hakai type of thing,maybe, but it should at least qualify as "standard" Existence Erasure.

Disintegration/dissolution is a common effect within fictional works to represent EE.

That's my opinion on this.

(I'm also a casual Bleach enjoyer,lol)

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

The context doesn't make this seem like some sort of introduction to a new important ability (it's just a one-off statement Aizen tells to a fodder) and this ability doesn't seem to ever be addressed again in the manga after this. He also only says "any HUMAN" not "everything".

Obviously it's not limited to just humans because things other than humans have been shown to be erased (such as inanimate objects in the example you shown). He should be able to realistically destroy anything that consists of kishi or reishi as well or anything that's considered "matter".

 

[DavidTPPM]

Obviously it's not limited to just humans because things other than humans have been shown to be erased (such as inanimate objects in the example you shown). He should be able to realistically destroy anything that consists of kishi or reishi as well or anything that's considered "matter".

You didn't really answer my question…

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Obviously it's not limited to just humans because things other than humans have been shown to be erased (such as inanimate objects in the example you shown). He should be able to realistically destroy anything that consists of kishi or reishi as well or anything that's considered "matter".

Also its a POSSIBLY for a reason

 

[DavidTPPM]

It's not an Hakai type of thing,maybe, but it should at least qualify as "standard" Existence Erasure.

Disintegration/dissolution is a common effect within fictional works to represent EE.

That much I would understand in an out of wiki context, but in the wiki the abilities have to follow a pretty strict set of rules. Simple decay, deconstruction, vaporization, and other similar abilities are considered something else. Unless I'm missing something (which also probably means the profile is missing it), Aizen just has a very strong reiatsu aura but nothing suggests he actually makes things stop existing when they come in contact with him.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

You didn't really answer my question…

I'm telling you that part of what you sent was visibly wrong.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Also its a POSSIBLY for a reason

Actually no. I thought the at best shaky reasoning is why it's a possibly rating but his profile says this

Note: Whilst Aizen having Passive Existence Erasure is undeniable, whether or not it possesses specific in verse weaknesses is still in dispute and as such, a possibly rating was granted. This should not affect VS battles.

 

[ZENZUYA]

If i look at again

This is normally say that if some human have a contact with aizen, he will be be gone cause aizen kill the victim or smth
"Cease To Exist" Yeah this is flowery since it can be meaning that if kanonji touch him, he would've die

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Actually no. I thought the at best shaky reasoning is why it's a possibly rating but his profile says this

Oh alright. I forgot about that

 

[DavidTPPM]

I'm telling you that part of what you sent was visibly wrong.

What exactly? The scan says humans and the staff, as I said, doesn't get erased but just destroyed.
I feel like whether it's limited to humans or not is very secondary as I would like to first see why he has it to begin with

 

[TheLav69]

His staff starts getting destroyed, but more importantly, it doesn't seem to be "erased". What I circled appears to be very clear fragmentation which should not exist if the destroyed part of the staff truly got completely erased out of existence.

Those fragments aren't within range of his EE, btw.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Those fragments aren't within range of his EE, btw.

Oh yeah they're technically not touching him, meaning it would be limited to direct physical contact.
Meaning that even this wouldn't be an EE feat without the presence of the fragments making the interpretation that he just kills humans who touch him that much more likely

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Oh yeah they're technically not touching him, meaning it would be limited to direct physical contact.
Meaning that even this wouldn't be an EE feat without the presence of the fragments making the interpretation that he just kills humans who touch him that much more likely

Honestly should be "Deconstruction, possibly Existence Erasure" turning it into not being an ability at all is kinda dumb when it's something clearly displayed.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Honestly should be "Deconstruction, possibly Existence Erasure" turning it into not being an ability at all is kinda dumb when it's something clearly displayed.

Hmmm this further hints at the interpretation that Aizen just very effectively destroys things that touch him.

I don’t know if turning things into ash is considered deconstruction tho (since that'd technically also be possible just by like, being very strong), I would have to read how the wiki describes it

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Hmmm this further hints at the interpretation that Aizen just very effectively destroys things that touch him.

I don’t know if turning things into ash is considered deconstruction tho (since that'd technically also be possible just by like, being very strong), I would have to read how the wiki describes it

Deconstruction is the ability to break something down into smaller parts.

Pretty sure turning a thing into fine dust probably counts.

 

[Duedate8898]

Note: Whilst Aizen having Passive Existence Erasure is undeniable, whether or not it possesses specific in verse weaknesses is still in dispute and as such, a possibly rating was granted. This should not affect VS battles.

That isn't actually on the page is it?

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

That isn't actually on the page is it?

it is lol

 

[DavidTPPM]

That isn't actually on the page is it?

Yep it's at the bottom of the page as a note

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

I agree with the premise him having a form of passive destruction is undeniable but probably not best to attribute it to a single ability

That isn't actually on the page is it?

 

[TheLav69]

I don't think that Aizen's reiatsu seemingly reducing something to smaller particles first is a defeater to EE, to be honest. The same thing occurs with Hakai, and that's currently being used as an example of EE on the wiki's EE page. I don't think it's just deconstruction, either. He doesn't exactly leave a pile of dust or mist or whatever behind when he destroys the bodies of the humans he walks past, they just... aren't there. That combined with Aizen verbatim stating "cease to exist" is pretty blatant imo. I do think some more scans should be included in his justification, though.

 

[Duedate8898]

I was in the thread that got this made into possibly, hate that I missed that.

Anyhow, the reason it ended this way is because the statements given were considered enough to qualify for Existence Erasure for a while, then I do believe arguments on giving resistance to others popped up and that ended with this getting reevaluated. While there was a side that distinctly wanted it gone and another that wanted it there for sure, due to neither being too successful of convincing the other otherwise it ended up as possibly.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

I was in the thread that got this made into possibly, hate that I missed that.

Anyhow, the reason it ended this way is because the statements given were considered enough to qualify for Existence Erasure for a while, then I do believe arguments on giving resistance to others popped up and that ended with this getting reevaluated. While there was a side that distinctly wanted it gone and another that wanted it there for sure, due to neither being too successful of convincing the other otherwise it ended up as possibly.

If it's literally only a possible due to strictly specific verse mechanics then the possibly oughta be removed. It's very misleading and suggests that his ability to passively destroy stuff doesn't exist when it clearly does.

 

[Duedate8898]

Making a CRT to remove it, is always possible for anyone here. It's been about two years since it was put in there anyhow, so who knows how well it'll go, but if you have enough problem with it, go on ahead.

 

[DavidTPPM]

I don't think that Aizen's reiatsu seemingly reducing something to smaller particles first is a defeater to EE, to be honest.

It kind of is unless there's more evidence for it.

The same thing occurs with Hakai, and that's currently being used as an example of EE on the wiki's EE page.

The difference is, there's a lot more solid evidence for EE with Hakai from what I've heard (I don't read DB so idk for sure).
The issue is that Aizens statement can mean he just destroys things so even if him destroying things doesn't necessarily debunk EE it HEAVILY supports the other interpretation for the statement.

I don't think it's just deconstruction, either. He doesn't exactly leave a pile of dust or mist or whatever behind when he destroys the bodies of the humans he walks past, they just... aren't there.

That could equally be achieved through standard destruction. Like we won't give Mahoraga EE for this either even tho Gojos hand is also just gone. That isn't really evidence of EE.

That combined with Aizen verbatim stating "cease to exist" is pretty blatant imo.

I really disagree if that's the only statement giving him the ability. Like I explained in the original question, the term can and usually does only refer to destroying something or killing someone.

 

[DavidTPPM]

I was in the thread that got this made into possibly, hate that I missed that.

Anyhow, the reason it ended this way is because the statements given were considered enough to qualify for Existence Erasure for a while, then I do believe arguments on giving resistance to others popped up and that ended with this getting reevaluated. While there was a side that distinctly wanted it gone and another that wanted it there for sure, due to neither being too successful of convincing the other otherwise it ended up as possibly.

So it SHOULD be a possibly rating because we don't know he has EE for sure rather than him "undeniably" having it and it maybe having a verse specific weakness?

 

[Duedate8898]

Yes, the note appears like it was an addition made in a later CRT

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

it maybe having a verse specific weakness?

Yea that should be listed as possibly being a weakness in the weaknesses section rather than a weird note and a possibly rating for the ability.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Yes, the note appears like it was an addition made in a later CRT

Hmm interesting. Thanks, I'll try to see if I can find a CRT where this is discussed. I tried checking the tag linked on Aizens profile but couldn't find anything about it so far

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

The difference is, there's a lot more solid evidence for EE with Hakai from what I've heard (I don't read DB so idk for sure).
The issue is that Aizens statement can mean he just destroys things so even if him destroying things doesn't necessarily debunk EE it HEAVILY supports the other interpretation for the statement.

Yes, hakai has several evidences of this, hakai erases the soul, it denies the afterlife, its existence is completely erased ( only the memories of those who knew that character who remains ), in addition to causing damage to a ghost, even erasing a character from another line (although Zamasu didn't erase it because of the time ring's type 1 randomness)

 

[Duedate8898]

Hmm interesting. Thanks, I'll try to see if I can find a CRT where this is discussed. I tried checking the tag linked on Aizens profile but couldn't find anything about it so far

This one: https://vsbattles.com/threads/revising-the-profile-of-fictions-greatest-antagonist.142069/
Edit: This was the thread it was added

 

[Adam1396]

Aizen states, aizen does. So it's a clear ee. It should get full rating. It's happening due to reatsu which allows to interact with even AE 1. So no, it's not explicit to human. Same thing would have happened to shinigami. Same thing would have happened to shunsui like aizen said. We have seen part of body can be ee which can't be helaed despite bleach having decent healing feats. EE has to be undone one way or other and that's why grimjow needed orihime.

EE mostly gets accepted due to statements. So I don't gey what ya mean by flowery.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Aizen states, aizen does.

That's kidna the issue? Aizens statement doesn't just mean one thing.
Things "ceasing to exist" can and often does mean they just get destroyed. And Aizen is both shown and stated to be turning things to ash.

So it's a clear ee. It should get full rating. It's happening due to reatsu which allows to interact with even AE 1. So no, it's not explicit to human.

Not what the statement says and so far noone gave any evidence that it can EE non humans.

EE mostly gets accepted due to statements. So I don't gey what ya mean by flowery.

What? I'm pretty sure I explained how "cease to exist" is very often just flowery wording used to describe destroying or killing something and how it's most likely the case here.

So you didn't really answer my question.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Dude, I think it's better to take this to a crt, because I think the OP's question has already been answered despite him disagreeing with the justification.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Dude, I think it's better to take this to a crt, because I think the OP's question has already been answered despite him disagreeing with the justification.

Eeh idk if I actually care enough about this to make a CRT. I'm might, but the question of whether there's any existing evidence for EE that's just missing from the profile is still open if anyone has anything.

 

[Excellence616]

Whoever wanna make a CRT should first discuss it in the Bleach Discussion Thread

 

[Hxskyy2005]

aizen says it and does it. It is related to reiatsu. during the war the range of aizen's reiatsu was limited because it was a danger for the shinigami themselves, moreover when the boy who was supposed to remove aizen's seals had his hands cut off without having touched him. I think the argument is valid. since it's related to his reiatsu and with aizen's interpretation it makes sense

 

[Hellscream]

How is this not existence erasure?

Guy literally made them disappear as soon as anything got remotely close to him on multiple occasions, including inanimate objects, such as kanonji's staff?

And this doesn't just wipe their physical body, it also wipes out your soul. you can literally see it visibly happening. there's nothing left of the bodies that are affected by aizen. just blood gushing out of the places, where their body parts were affected, outside of that, those parts are completely erased without a trace.
exact same example with aizen in his chair.

Existence Erasure is the simple power to remove something from existence, leaving nothing behind, a level of destruction beyond incineration, vaporization, and atomization. Rather than just reducing something to its constituent parts, this ability leaves absolutely nothing behind. Powerful enough uses of this ability can even erase the mind and soul, if not more fundamental aspects of one's existence, such as concepts.

This ability's destructive power is not absolute, and one should not assume that it can erase the soul by default. It can only be judged by what it has accomplished, and one's resistance to the ability can only be judged by the specific method by which this effect is achieved. The means vary from character to character, but the ability is often considered and listed as a subset of Void Manipulation, though it can certainly occur through the usage of other abilities.

Literally what's being showcased here, but sure.
Makes your existence go poof by being close to him, including your soul.

 

[DavidTPPM]

How is this not existence erasure?

Guy literally made them disappear as soon as anything got remotely close to him on multiple occasions, including inanimate objects, such as kanonji's staff?

And this doesn't just wipe their physical body, it also wipes out your soul. you can literally see it visibly happening. there's nothing left of the bodies that are affected by aizen. just blood gushing out of the places, where their body parts were affected, outside of that, those parts are completely erased without a trace.
exact same example with aizen in his chair.

Existence Erasure is the simple power to remove something from existence, leaving nothing behind, a level of destruction beyond incineration, vaporization, and atomization. Rather than just reducing something to its constituent parts, this ability leaves absolutely nothing behind. Powerful enough uses of this ability can even erase the mind and soul, if not more fundamental aspects of one's existence, such as concepts.

This ability's destructive power is not absolute, and one should not assume that it can erase the soul by default. It can only be judged by what it has accomplished, and one's resistance to the ability can only be judged by the specific method by which this effect is achieved. The means vary from character to character, but the ability is often considered and listed as a subset of Void Manipulation, though it can certainly occur through the usage of other abilities.

Literally what's being showcased here, but sure.
Makes your existence go poof by being close to him, including your soul.

Idk what's the point of answer the question if you're going to completely ignore the OP.
The statement can mean multiple things other than EE, most of which are already existing abilities that Aizen had before. We also see objects and humans get destroyed rather than stop existing as well as a contradictory statement of him "turning things to ash".

To classify this as EE without further evidence, you would need to specifically focus on one of the multiple meanings of the statement while ignoring all the contradictory evidence and possible meanings.