About Acasuality Type 2

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Asking because theres something im very confused about.

Now according to the Acasuality page , Acasuality Type 2 means that you do not exist in either the past or future, only in the present. That much is simple to me. But there is something else that I don't understand.

Lets say that I was to gain Acasuality T2, meaning that I no longer exist in either the past or the future. I am only someone existing in the present. Would this mean that my past and future no longer exist since I dont exist in those points in time anymore? And if they dont exist, does that mean my past and my future were erased as a result? Or does my past and future still exist but just without me in it?

 

[Antoniofer]

Neh, this type confuse me a little, it should be more like "being treated as being a temporal singularity" rather than "existing only in one point of time". I mean, I suggested Raziel when the piwer was made, but he exist in the past (one can travel back in time and find him) and in the future (while being imprisioned, his alternative self past self was in the "future" doing stuff); he is acausal do no longer being part if the wheel of fate, the cyrcle of life and death, so changing the past/future wouldn't affect him.

I believe that anyone that work that way should have Acausality type 2.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Okay so if a character has a past, future, or both, then they should be disqualified from having AT2?

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Okay so if a character has a past, future, or both, then they should be disqualified from havig AT2?

Basically.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Okay and as for what I originally asked, would an Acasual type 2 still have their past and futures erased if they no longer exist in them?

I'd like more opinions besides what Anton thinks.

 

[Eficiente]

I thought type 2 Acasuality was just written kinda bad and you do exist in past and future but your present self wasn't affected by changes to those versions of himself.

 

[Antoniofer]

It shoud be that last one. Basically the user is free, and has no written future, altering its past wouldn't cause any change neither.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

If thats the case then we should rewrite the Acasuality T2 requirements.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Afaik being a Type 2 acausal is being a singularity in time. Aka trying to change your past or control/see into your future do nothing to you.

As if you don't exist in either of them.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Nope. Our current description says flat out that acasual type 2 doesnt exist in the past or future:

"Characters with this type of Acausality do not exist in either the past or the future, only the present. This means they cannot be affected by changes to the past, while also making them resistant to Precognition that works by viewing the future, as they do not exist within it, and Fate Manipulation, for the same reaso. In essence, they are able to choose their own fates, but they remain just as vulnerable at the point in time in which they do exist."

Taken right from the page.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Oh, so it's another instance where "The standards are different from what it says on the page"?

Well, i can get some staff here.

 

[Eficiente]

As if you don't exist in either of them.

That's like saying that if I punch someone and that someone takes no damage then it's as if that person didn't exist. It ca be the case but it can also be many other things, no need to use the word "exist", just saying that the person took no damage is all the info we know. So yeah.

I also have wording issues with other 2 powers so if we can fix type 2 Acasuality in this thread then that would be nice.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Yeah.

I called some staff here, hopefully this clears up quick.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

@Eficiente

Those should preferably be made in their own threads to get more attention and not derail this one.

 

[Andytrenom]

I'm pretty sure it just means what it says on the page, not existing in the past or present, and that some people are just using it wrong

 

[Eficiente]

The last guy in the examples we have seems to exist in part and future, just not being affected by changes there. The first 2 guys seem to do actually not exist in part and future, but they keep memory of their past. In any case, and as I said before, I'm pretty sure we're using the word "exist" on an unnecessarily way.

 

[Andytrenom]

The last guy probably shouldn't have type 2 then

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

The last guy in the examples we have seems to exist in part and future, just not being affected by changes there. The first 2 guys seem to do actually not exist in part and future, but they keep memory of their past. In any case, and as I said before, I'm pretty sure we're using the word "exist" on an unnecessarily way.

Either that, or their pasts shouldnt exist at all anymore since they're supposed to not exist in that part of time anymore. You can't remember something that never happened/doesnt exist anymore.

So either "exists" needs to be replaced with something else, or the qualifications need to be revised.

 

[Eficiente]

I think it's kinda odd how changing a character's past and future and then that character being fine and not following any fate gives the character only type 1 Acasuality, why does it has to specifically "not exist" on past & future?

Like, that would mean that if I see the future to try to see someone with type 2 Acasuality then I would just not see him. And if I go to the past I'll never find him. This is especially strange considering that the other types don't rely on you not existing somewhere, and they are more of a "if you do this, I'm still fine".

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Thats an interesting point that I also found strange.

None of the later types list non-existence in points in time as part of the requirements. In Types 3 - 5, the user still exists. At the very least, this definitely says "exists" is a wrong word that needs to go.

 

[Andytrenom]

What point are you guys even trying to make? Not existing in other points is simply how type 2 acausality is defined so of course the other types wouldn't demand the same thing. This is the same as saying as "Why does immortality type 8 require you to depend on something? None of the other immortality types does"

 

[Eficiente]

The point is very clear; The way we define/judge it is way too specific and is a massive jump of capabilities from type 1. It would be like type 8 immortality if the latter had the added requirements of having the thing(s) you depend on being stronger than you and also older.

 

[Andytrenom]

Would having a new acausality satisfy you? I still don't know if that would be needed but I would at least find it more logical than changing type 2 just because some people seem to have a problem with it being exactly what it is meant to be

 

[Kaltias]

Lets say that I was to gain Acasuality T2, meaning that I no longer exist in either the past or the future. I am only someone existing in the present. Would this mean that my past and future no longer exist since I dont exist in those points in time anymore? And if they dont exist, does that mean my past and my future were erased as a result?

Yes.

This girl for example was outright deleted from all of history when she got her acausality type 2.

Also, the acausality types are like the immortality types, it isn't a linear progression, just different types of acausality for different variations.

So yeah Andy is right

 

[Kaltias]

I think it's kinda odd how changing a character's past and future and then that character being fine and not following any fate gives the character only type 1 Acasuality, why does it has to specifically "not exist" on past & future?

Btw that's because it's a matter of mechanics. Just like you need to be soulless to be immune to soul absorption instead of simply resisting it.

Under normal circumstances type 2 acausality makes you flat out immune to those abilities, unless PIS kicks i someone has the ability to circumvent this obstacle

 

[Antoniofer]

If the tyoes aren't gradually, and I'm fine with that, should be one type for simply being unaffected by fate without necessaey being unaffected by time paradoxes? Type 2 sound like a combination of Temporal Paradox Immunity + Fate Immunity + Existing (partially) Outside of Time (Just like this power).

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yes.

This girl for example was outright deleted from all of history when she got her acausality type 2

Okay so here's another question.

What if I gained Acasuality Type 2, and my past and future are deleted as a result like you say it would be, but someone who knows me from my past still remembers my existence in the present. If im no longer existing in the past, shouldnt this time paradox past events that I was a part of, like being friends with others?

And if it doesnt, would that still mean my past exists?

 

[Andytrenom]

No, this means the writer doesn't give a shit

 

[Wokistan]

I thought type 2 Acasuality was just written kinda bad and you do exist in past and future but your present self wasn't affected by changes to those versions of himself.

Pretty sure this is type 1.

@kukui That guy might have acausal 1 off ripple effect proof memory, you might not actually have type 2, writer might have just forgotten, etc

 

[Antoniofer]

But type 1 do not protect someone from stuff that manipulate the future, like fate, prophecy and precognition, the only type that does that is pretty situational, requering not existing in past/future.

 

[Wokistan]

I don't think a change to your future self would affect your present self by default, since it hasn't happened yet.

 

[Antoniofer]

Its manipulating one's cause, that is the basis for acausality, basically is forcing you to do something (excluding precognition, that just see that is going to happen).

 

[Wokistan]

Cause comes before effect though. To manipulate a cause that hasn't happened yet wouldn't affect someone before the manipulation even took place.

 

[Andytrenom]

@Anto Wouldn't it be manipulating effect instead?

 

[Antoniofer]

I think its more cause cuz is setting you the cause of x, like using Death Manipulation to assign how and where someone will die. At the end, Fate Manipulation is one of the most basic forms of Causality Manipulation.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

@kukui That guy might have acausal 1 off ripple effect proof memory, you might not actually have type 2, writer might have just forgotten, etc

The only one i'd agree with is if the person who remembered me, after my past is deleted for being an Acasual T2, is an Acasual Type 1 themselves. And even then, thats debatable because Acasual Type 1s are only immune to the changes of the past that effect them, not other people.

Like for instance, if you tried to go back in time to kill me as a baby, and im an Acasual type 1, that wont work on me because im immue to past changes. However, if you were to become an Acasual Type 2 and have your past deleted, theres no gurantee that I would keep my memories of you since its not my past thats being changed, its your past, because your past is being deleted. Unless, does Acasuality T1 protect you against this too?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

But type 1 do not protect someone from stuff that manipulate the future, like fate, prophecy and precognition, the only type that does that is pretty situational, requering not existing in past/future.

Also, Antoniofer is right about this one.

Acasual Type 1's are only immune to changes that are done to them in the past, not in the present or future. At least thats whats currently written on the page.

 

[Antoniofer]

Type 1 avoid changes in the past in general, if someone with type 1 acausality remember when someone else killed it in the past wouldn't be entirely type 1, as as changing the past affected it in a minor way.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Type 1 avoid changes in the past in general, if someone with type 1 acausality remember when someone else killed it in the past wouldn't be entirely type 1, as as changing the past affected it in a minor way.

So what your saying is that Acasuality Type 1 is more generalized instead of specifically only for yourself?

And that if a person you are associated with suddenly no longer existed in the past, because you yourself are an Acasual Type 1, you would still remember them?

 

[Antoniofer]

Yes, in a verse from time travel can cause changes in the future, if one with type 1 is killed as a child then reality will beind around it, and turn into the future where it do not exist. Welp, in theory, otherwise, everyone would have type 1 if reality do not change; its only of these powers that depends of the verse.