A Wild Last Boss Appeared Qualitative Upgrade

[Everything12]

This was the Endpoint, a place outside of the universe. Alovenus had named. It was the final point of everything, as well as the beginning. All worlds and all timelines connected to this place.
Universes here were something like programs installed on a computer. There was a lot of saved data, each datum being a separate parallel world. Once someone left a universe they would find countless more universes, or programs, all collated within folders. However, if they then looked past those folders, they would find that the folders were themselves contained in more folders. Past that, many more like them would be found if someone were to leave the computer itself.
The place Alovenus ruled over was something like thus. Everything connected to this space, a world only for Alovenus that no one else should have been able to enter.

There was no concept of size in this space, as once Ruphas and the other two had crossed through the universe itself, they had become equal to Alovenus. They, who should have been nothing but specks in a vast universe, had undoubtedly come as true enemies.

At this point, the very concept of time no longer existed, so Brachium's once-per-day limit could basically be ignored.

"Even if their was someone labelled as the strongest among these characters in a setting this overwhelming, things would be flipped upside down by nothing but one word from the author, or in other words, God. That being that there was an even stronger character able to defeat the first character with but one punch."

Alovenus giggled again, showing her absolute confidence in her victory, in her power. I can't lose, There's no reason I would. Even if there were, I could just go above it. I can make as many settings where I am the strongest as I please. Reason is nothing. Providence is nothing.
"I'll start by telling you this: my power is endless. I can layer setting upon setting. For example, even if you all manage to obtain some sort of ability or power to defeat me, I would be able to answer it by saying, 'Those abilities and powers will not work on me. I am strong enough to defeat you all with a single one of my fingers.' Do you think it childish? Well, that's because it is. I won't deny it. But things like this are far more powerful than pretentious, unmoving settings that go on forever."

This is all just a competition of will. It's because I keep thinking useless thoughts like, "I'm at the limit of my strength," or wondering how strong I really am, that I got caught up like this. What's important here is just forcing things to be the way I like it. There doesn't need to be any reason or logic behind that. Those are just useless.

Concepts, providence, laws, and limits—all of these are decided by gods, so it follows that none of them exist in their dominion. We would have had to create them on our own.
What I have to do is paint over this pure-white canvas of a space and insist that I’m right.

I'm proposing that this should be 1-A.

Now some people my be going "but didn't Ruphas reach her level, isn't that an anti-feat?" Nope, as this was sufficiently explained. Alovenus is an idiot who just left the universe made of her power up for the taking. With one of her avatar's Dina and an item designed to give control of the universe all available for Ruphas use.

I took out the Key to Reach the Heavens and activated it. When I did so, the ownership of the universe shifted to me. This universe had already been tossed aside, so it was free for me-the one with the key-to claim, though I still wasn't able to stop it's destruction, of course.

I laughed and activated a skill, one of Aigokeros's, This universe was the magic of the Goddess, and now that she'd abandoned it, it was mine. So naturally, it was within my right to absorb it all.

This universe was a magic spell, and spells were made of mana. Mana was a piece of the Goddess's power, as well as experience itself. This all made a certain thing possible. I would fuse myself with the universe and reach the realm of divinity.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I was going to address this in a few weeks/months...

Anyway, not really prepared to argue it, so will just observe.

If just getting to the final point makes you 1-A though, Ruphas and Alovenus did a lot of transcending after that.

 

[Everything12]

Yeah, but the transcending was by infinities and infinities. Where to reach higher into 1-A would require qualitative difference, while even infinite is still quantitative. So they would be the highest baseline 1-A's, but they wouldn't get higher. Plus a lower level being able to ascend to a higher level on it's own power is just as much an anti-feat within higher levels of 1-A as it is for reaching 1-A.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

Huh...didn't expect this so soon. Well, glad it was went over. I did pan to try these points at a different time but this saves a lot. Given that avatars have tools directly tied to the Goddess and her power, and they also allow Ruphas to use them as being part of the stars.

As for their transcending, not sure if it helps but they were still using her power at that time to even match anything she did. At the same time as well they make any of their concepts based on their own whims including what they view as higher infinity. When ascending each other it involved a higher setting which is similar difference to the setting placed on the universe. (Still not entirely sure how new system would work tho)

What would the Endpoint be in this case if that doesn't help though? Cause it still acts as a canvas that's supposed to hold everything they do and add, including their growth and such without limits

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

As for their transcending, not sure if it helps but they were still using her power at that time to even match anything she did. At the same time as well they make any of their concepts based on their own whims including what they view as higher infinity. When ascending each other it involved a higher setting which is similar difference to the setting placed on the universe. (Still not entirely sure how new system would work tho)

What would the Endpoint be in this case if that doesn't help though? Cause it still acts as a canvas that's supposed to hold everything they do and add, including their growth and such without limits

The Endpoint is an infinite white canvas which holds everything. If reaching the Endpoint results in concepts, limits, size being irrelevant, this is already 1-A apparently, Ruphas and co (who are 1-A) where losing to Alovenus because she could rely/ascend to higher realms/settings, Alovenus describing her power as infinite, cause she could continue to ascend infinitely to higher realms, even after already starting at 1-A.

Spoiler: Alovenus Infinity

“There’s no limit to the amount of power one can imagine. For example, we could argue about who, between the character of story A and the character of story B, is actually stronger. The character from story A might be able to destroy a universe, but story B could reveal that a single universe is just like a cell of a larger multiverse.”

Alovenus spoke, and the entire universe began to shrink. It became smaller and smaller…until it went beyond the limit, allowing Ruphas and the others to see the whole picture. Beyond the universe, a vast outer space expanded.

While the Goddess talked leisurely, Ruphas didn’t cease her attacks. She released one of Scorpius’ poisonous skills. Orm activated his breath weapon as well. However, the Goddess didn’t stop talking.

“And then, this is where story C comes in and states that the multiverse is just a single cell of an even larger cosmos.”

The multiverse shrank as well, revealing the overwhelming scale that the multiverse was just a cell of a cosmos.

“However, even with such an overwhelming setting, the strongest being within it could be unseated easily by the author (deity) with the creation of another character that could defeat the hitherto strongest character with a single punch. This would make the new character even stronger. Furthermore, the strongest D would be treated like a child by E, who couldn’t react to the speed of F, who could be killed one hundred times with a forehead flick by G, who couldn’t even be an opponent for H, who could be blown away with a sigh by K even if there were one hundred Hs…Hehehe, this is quite common in fiction, isn’t it?”

Alovenus concentrated light in her hands. This wasn’t just light. It had the power to take in countless universes and destroy worlds by the hundreds, thousands, and millions. This was the realm of God. There was just far too much of a difference in scale.

“This whole thing is like a dispute between children. Ruphas, your avatar probably did something similar when he was young, right? When there are two children, one would pretend to attack with a great beam, while the other would pretend to block it with a great barrier. But the former would say that this great beam could easily destroy a great barrier, while the latter would insist that it was an invincible barrier that could not be destroyed. The attacking side would selfishly and unreasonably argue that his beam could destroy even an invincible barrier, while the defending side would retort that his barrier would never ever break…And so there would be no end in sight.”

Alovenus giggled. It was a laugh that embodied absolute belief in her victory and her own power. She couldn’t lose. There was no reason for her to lose. Even if she really lost, she could simply fiddle with the setting. She could come up with so many ways to make herself the strongest by changing the setting, reason, and providence.

“Let me start with the conclusion…My power is infinite. I can overlay settings over pre-existing settings. For example, let’s say you somehow acquired unusual abilities and powers in order to defeat me. Then, I can simply resolve that like this. ‘Your unusual power won’t work on me, and I can still defeat you with one finger.’ Do you think this is ridiculous? Yes, that’s right. I won’t deny it. However, such an inexplicable statement can sometimes be stronger than a never-ending exchange.”

The power of Alovenus swelled further and triggered a universal explosion. Ruphas and the others tried their best to defend, erase, or assimilate the power. However, Alovenus flew over and flicked the three of them at the same time. Ruphas and the others immediately went on the offensive, but their attacks were easily evaded. Attacks with infinite speed should have ignored the entire process of hitting.

“Infinite speed? I see. How amazing. Then, I’ll answer thus, ‘Infinite speed before me is nothing more than one, and I’m one hundred times faster.’ If you have infinite power, then I’ll say, ‘Even that infinity is just one, there is always another infinity beyond.’ If you go beyond that, I’ll simply say that there’s even more beyond. If you say that you’ll become infinitely stronger and stronger, I can simply make myself become infinitely stronger, but at a rate one thousand times faster than you.
So what will you do next? An instant death attack that kills the opponent just by facing them? An ability to take away all of the opponent’s powers just by being present? A trait that always makes you stronger than your opponent? Turn back time to undo events? Become a resident of a higher dimension and toss away the opponent’s settings like a piece of waste paper? The power to nullify all kinds of abilities? An invincible barrier that can reflect any attacks at several times their original power? A constitution that manipulates the concept of victory and ignores the process to attain absolute victory? A cheat that instills the concept of defeat into the opponent to ensure absolute defeat for them? Or pure, unrivaled power that can penetrate and kill everything without exception?
Whatever is fine. Please use them until you are satisfied. They wouldn’t work anyway.”-Chapter 186

It's only after Ruphas realizes that as a creation of Alovenus, she also has the ability to do the same, that the fight becomes more even, because limits, infinity etc is all irrelevant all that matters is the childish belief that you are stronger than your opponent.

Spoiler: Ruphas Ego

Compared to the beginning of the battle, Ruphas and the others had received a significant power-up. However, they still couldn’t catch up. Alovenus’ attacks were just too strange.

Alovenus created a universe that was transcended by another universe…and yet another universe that went beyond that. The current universe was like a cell. Likewise, the universe beyond was the same…The mind-boggling hundredfold repetition of this resulted in the multiverse.

She seemed to be using them like they were disposable bombs. She created one using a Big Bang and then destroyed it with a Big Crunch. She was just playing around. It was ridiculous. It was so over-inflated in scale that it was getting stale.

This was like a child selfishly playing and believing, “I’m stronger than you.” This was basically the same thing but repeated on a larger scale. No matter what they did, it would be pushed aside by such a childish, unreasonable justification. It would be erased and blown away. All of their power, speed, and skills were rendered meaningless.

However, Ruphas laughed in the face of such a predicament. Indeed, she was certainly the strongest. She was beyond all rules. However, Alovenus had made a mistake somewhere. There was only one and it was somewhat trivial…However, it was an extremely important truth in this situation.

—I’m also the childish sort of person who hates losing.

“Alovenus.”

“Hmm? What’s up? Are you surrendering?”

“No, no. You’ve been going on at great length concerning the reasoning of your power…Therefore, I’ll answer you thus.”

Ruphas raised the corners of her mouth and laughed fiercely. She was overwhelmingly higher than her in terms of scale, but they were already standing on the same tier. Both of them were fighting in the realm of God, beyond their world. In that case, what remained was simply a battle of wills.

It’s pointless to think about useless things like the limit of power and my own strength. There’s only one thing that will push me forward here. There’s no need for any reasoning or theory.

“You’re indeed very strong, but I’m even stronger.”

In that instant, Ruphas’ power exceeded the setting that had been put in place by Alovenus.

Multiverse? I don’t care about such things. Infinite status? Well, whatever. Subversion of the setting? So what?

“I’m stronger than all of them.” Everything depends on this.

Strangely enough, as Alovenus herself had said, there was no concept of strength in a battle of this level anymore. Concepts, providences, laws, and even limits were all things that had been created by God. Therefore, there were no such things in the realm of God. They would just have to create their own based on their whims.

They were like trying to paint their own colors on a blank white canvas and enforce their own truths. Alovenus could do that, so there was no reason why they couldn’t do it themselves. After all, they were residents of the world that had been created by Alovenus. For the same reason, natural laws didn’t apply to them. In hindsight, this was probably why the laws of physics didn’t apply to them at all.-Chapter 187

And it's after all the ascending that they break the Endpoint. Yea idk, will let the tier 1 guys sort this out, would have been better if this was made after the supporters debated what to even argue for, but what's done is done.

 

[Phoenks]

Wouldn't Low 1-A be more applicable here?

The folder and computer analogies seem to suggest they are still building off the previously established cosmology, and thus still possess some degree of physical composition. Like how it says universes are like folders contained within more folders, contained in computers, in a space where there are more computers with more folders. It doesn't seem as though there is ever an ontological disconnect between these structures.

And just transcending space-time as concepts is Low 1-A, so it would still be applicable to some of the statements.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

The Endpoint is an infinite white canvas which holds everything. If reaching the Endpoint results in concepts, limits, size being irrelevant, this is already 1-A apparently, Ruphas and co (who are 1-A) where losing to Alovenus because she could rely/ascend to higher realms/settings, Alovenus describing her power as infinite, cause she could continue to ascend infinitely to higher realms, even after already starting at 1-A.

Spoiler: Alovenus Infinity

“There’s no limit to the amount of power one can imagine. For example, we could argue about who, between the character of story A and the character of story B, is actually stronger. The character from story A might be able to destroy a universe, but story B could reveal that a single universe is just like a cell of a larger multiverse.”

Alovenus spoke, and the entire universe began to shrink. It became smaller and smaller…until it went beyond the limit, allowing Ruphas and the others to see the whole picture. Beyond the universe, a vast outer space expanded.

While the Goddess talked leisurely, Ruphas didn’t cease her attacks. She released one of Scorpius’ poisonous skills. Orm activated his breath weapon as well. However, the Goddess didn’t stop talking.

“And then, this is where story C comes in and states that the multiverse is just a single cell of an even larger cosmos.”

The multiverse shrank as well, revealing the overwhelming scale that the multiverse was just a cell of a cosmos.

“However, even with such an overwhelming setting, the strongest being within it could be unseated easily by the author (deity) with the creation of another character that could defeat the hitherto strongest character with a single punch. This would make the new character even stronger. Furthermore, the strongest D would be treated like a child by E, who couldn’t react to the speed of F, who could be killed one hundred times with a forehead flick by G, who couldn’t even be an opponent for H, who could be blown away with a sigh by K even if there were one hundred Hs…Hehehe, this is quite common in fiction, isn’t it?”

Alovenus concentrated light in her hands. This wasn’t just light. It had the power to take in countless universes and destroy worlds by the hundreds, thousands, and millions. This was the realm of God. There was just far too much of a difference in scale.

“This whole thing is like a dispute between children. Ruphas, your avatar probably did something similar when he was young, right? When there are two children, one would pretend to attack with a great beam, while the other would pretend to block it with a great barrier. But the former would say that this great beam could easily destroy a great barrier, while the latter would insist that it was an invincible barrier that could not be destroyed. The attacking side would selfishly and unreasonably argue that his beam could destroy even an invincible barrier, while the defending side would retort that his barrier would never ever break…And so there would be no end in sight.”

Alovenus giggled. It was a laugh that embodied absolute belief in her victory and her own power. She couldn’t lose. There was no reason for her to lose. Even if she really lost, she could simply fiddle with the setting. She could come up with so many ways to make herself the strongest by changing the setting, reason, and providence.

“Let me start with the conclusion…My power is infinite. I can overlay settings over pre-existing settings. For example, let’s say you somehow acquired unusual abilities and powers in order to defeat me. Then, I can simply resolve that like this. ‘Your unusual power won’t work on me, and I can still defeat you with one finger.’ Do you think this is ridiculous? Yes, that’s right. I won’t deny it. However, such an inexplicable statement can sometimes be stronger than a never-ending exchange.”

The power of Alovenus swelled further and triggered a universal explosion. Ruphas and the others tried their best to defend, erase, or assimilate the power. However, Alovenus flew over and flicked the three of them at the same time. Ruphas and the others immediately went on the offensive, but their attacks were easily evaded. Attacks with infinite speed should have ignored the entire process of hitting.

“Infinite speed? I see. How amazing. Then, I’ll answer thus, ‘Infinite speed before me is nothing more than one, and I’m one hundred times faster.’ If you have infinite power, then I’ll say, ‘Even that infinity is just one, there is always another infinity beyond.’ If you go beyond that, I’ll simply say that there’s even more beyond. If you say that you’ll become infinitely stronger and stronger, I can simply make myself become infinitely stronger, but at a rate one thousand times faster than you.
So what will you do next? An instant death attack that kills the opponent just by facing them? An ability to take away all of the opponent’s powers just by being present? A trait that always makes you stronger than your opponent? Turn back time to undo events? Become a resident of a higher dimension and toss away the opponent’s settings like a piece of waste paper? The power to nullify all kinds of abilities? An invincible barrier that can reflect any attacks at several times their original power? A constitution that manipulates the concept of victory and ignores the process to attain absolute victory? A cheat that instills the concept of defeat into the opponent to ensure absolute defeat for them? Or pure, unrivaled power that can penetrate and kill everything without exception?
Whatever is fine. Please use them until you are satisfied. They wouldn’t work anyway.”-Chapter 186

It's only after Ruphas realizes that as a creation of Alovenus, she also has the ability to do the same, that the fight becomes more even, because limits, infinity etc is all irrelevant all that matters is the childish belief that you are stronger than your opponent.

Spoiler: Ruphas Ego

Compared to the beginning of the battle, Ruphas and the others had received a significant power-up. However, they still couldn’t catch up. Alovenus’ attacks were just too strange.

Alovenus created a universe that was transcended by another universe…and yet another universe that went beyond that. The current universe was like a cell. Likewise, the universe beyond was the same…The mind-boggling hundredfold repetition of this resulted in the multiverse.

She seemed to be using them like they were disposable bombs. She created one using a Big Bang and then destroyed it with a Big Crunch. She was just playing around. It was ridiculous. It was so over-inflated in scale that it was getting stale.

This was like a child selfishly playing and believing, “I’m stronger than you.” This was basically the same thing but repeated on a larger scale. No matter what they did, it would be pushed aside by such a childish, unreasonable justification. It would be erased and blown away. All of their power, speed, and skills were rendered meaningless.

However, Ruphas laughed in the face of such a predicament. Indeed, she was certainly the strongest. She was beyond all rules. However, Alovenus had made a mistake somewhere. There was only one and it was somewhat trivial…However, it was an extremely important truth in this situation.

—I’m also the childish sort of person who hates losing.

“Alovenus.”

“Hmm? What’s up? Are you surrendering?”

“No, no. You’ve been going on at great length concerning the reasoning of your power…Therefore, I’ll answer you thus.”

Ruphas raised the corners of her mouth and laughed fiercely. She was overwhelmingly higher than her in terms of scale, but they were already standing on the same tier. Both of them were fighting in the realm of God, beyond their world. In that case, what remained was simply a battle of wills.

It’s pointless to think about useless things like the limit of power and my own strength. There’s only one thing that will push me forward here. There’s no need for any reasoning or theory.

“You’re indeed very strong, but I’m even stronger.”

In that instant, Ruphas’ power exceeded the setting that had been put in place by Alovenus.

Multiverse? I don’t care about such things. Infinite status? Well, whatever. Subversion of the setting? So what?

“I’m stronger than all of them.” Everything depends on this.

Strangely enough, as Alovenus herself had said, there was no concept of strength in a battle of this level anymore. Concepts, providences, laws, and even limits were all things that had been created by God. Therefore, there were no such things in the realm of God. They would just have to create their own based on their whims.

They were like trying to paint their own colors on a blank white canvas and enforce their own truths. Alovenus could do that, so there was no reason why they couldn’t do it themselves. After all, they were residents of the world that had been created by Alovenus. For the same reason, natural laws didn’t apply to them. In hindsight, this was probably why the laws of physics didn’t apply to them at all.-Chapter 187

And it's after all the ascending that they break the Endpoint. Yea idk, will let the tier 1 guys sort this out, would have been better if this was made after the supporters debated what to even argue for, but what's done is done.

Right, the end point is meant to hold every both the concepts of creation and the concepts the Gods created. While reaching the realm of Alovenus Gods are also beyond these things and make their own. Plus how Alovenus views everything I think fits. This leaves the end point to be something beyond that as well.

At this point stuff is up to their interpretation, like Ruphas changing the definition of speed how she likes to go faster. Same goes for everything else as they surpass each others setting. Similarly to how she described an author messing with the setting, and how the universe is also an example of the script/a setting. Once they reach the end point, Alovenus also placed down a setting already as well. And to reach her wasn't just applying a new infinity or setting to reach a higher world either, but reaching an infinite infinity of these and what they view as stronger.

Whether a setting would qualify with that though, I am not sure. The end point itself was always treated as a next level however, and I feel would be more likely. However, building up to a higher qualitative level seems to not be a thing, so perhaps not.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Putting this in the queue, if you don't mind.

 

[Everything12]

Wouldn't Low 1-A be more applicable here?

The folder and computer analogies seem to suggest they are still building off the previously established cosmology, and thus still possess some degree of physical composition. Like how it says universes are like folders contained within more folders, contained in computers, in a space where there are more computers with more folders. It doesn't seem as though there is ever an ontological disconnect between these structures.

And just transcending space-time as concepts is Low 1-A, so it would still be applicable to some of the statements.

They compare it to programs and data on a computer, and while the data on the computer is technically has size and realness comparable to the outside as electricity or whatever in the hard drive (I can't remember how computer's memories work), it is also a common to perceive the stuff on the computer as being less real then the people behind the screen. Which when we add all the other context of the Endpoint such as being the blank canvas that lacks the concept of size with all the settings and disregarding logic makes it seem like that was the approach they were going with.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Reopened this to post the relevant chapters, which are 185, 186, 187, and 188.

This is so people who are evaluating, can actually look at the chapters for themselves, the chapters aren't even that long.

Closing this again.

 

[Everything12]

I'm actually using the official light novel translations... their pretty much exactly the same word for word with only the wording the translator used changing it.

 

[Grabbing_dragon]

Yeah, but the transcending was by infinities and infinities. Where to reach higher into 1-A would require qualitative difference, while even infinite is still quantitative. So they would be the highest baseline 1-A's,

that's still an antifeat 1A is suppose to be beyond any and all levels of quantitative superiority and unreachable by them. If they do that thier not 1A to begin with

 

[Grabbing_dragon]

Wouldn't Low 1-A be more applicable here?

The folder and computer analogies seem to suggest they are still building off the previously established cosmology, and thus still possess some degree of physical composition. Like how it says universes are like folders contained within more folders, contained in computers, in a space where there are more computers with more folders. It doesn't seem as though there is ever an ontological disconnect between these structures.

And just transcending space-time as concepts is Low 1-A, so it would still be applicable to some of the statements.

Agreed

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Reopened this to post the relevant chapters, which are 185, 186, 187, and 188.

This is so people who are evaluating, can actually look at the chapters for themselves, the chapters aren't even that long.

Closing this again.

Yeah, I'll look over this.

 

[Phoenks]

I read through it and yeah I have the same concerns. I am unsure if it is the same in the novel but like...

There is so much stuff that compositions the size of the Cosmology.

Alovenus created a universe that was transcended by another universe…and yet another universe that went beyond that. The current universe was like a cell. Likewise, the universe beyond was the same…The mind-boggling hundredfold repetition of this resulted in the multiverse.

Alovenus spoke, and the entire universe began to shrink. It became smaller and smaller…until it went beyond the limit, allowing Ruphas and the others to see the whole picture. Beyond the universe, a vast outer space expanded. While the Goddess talked leisurely, Ruphas didn’t cease her attacks. She released one of Scorpius’ poisonous skills. Orm activated his breath weapon as well. However, the Goddess didn’t stop talking. And then, this is where story C comes in and states that the multiverse is just a single cell of an even larger cosmos. The multiverse shrank as well, revealing the overwhelming scale that the multiverse was just a cell of a cosmos.

Neither of them was thinking about how high they had reached in this conflict over offense and defense. They were simply not interested. They went beyond the initial universe, and beyond, and beyond, and beyond, and beyond, and beyond—beyond the universe, beyond the multiverse, beyond the omniverse.

Even the final point seems to constantly be referred to with measurable terms:

The after-effects, which couldn’t simply be described as shockwaves anymore, spread throughout the infinite Final Point. The after-effects covered several hundred millions or even several trillions of light-years in an instant and continued on indefinitely.

I'm also really confused on where the Final Point is exactly. Like is says they are in the Final Point at the start but then we see them go through universes, Multiverses, etc, with the scale constantly increasing from there.

 

[Tsavorae]

I read through it and yeah I have the same concerns. I am unsure if it is the same in the novel but like...

There is so much stuff that compositions the size of the Cosmology.















Even the final point seems to constantly be referred to with measurable terms:





I'm also really confused on where the Final Point is exactly. Like is says they are in the Final Point at the start but then we see them go through universes, Multiverses, etc, with the scale constantly increasing from there.

It's a bit complicated, yeah, but in short, when Ruphas and the others reached the Endpoint, theyre thrown into a newly created universe. For more details, can check my blog, which I have organized chronologically.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

The end point is a canvas that h
is meant to hold everything and has no concepts. A blank canvas for everything and the cosmology, called a place with no size or limit. In the WN it's called "theoretically infinite" but has no actual concept of size. Plus at this point everything is done in their viewpoint.

Alovenus spam creating universes is just that, her creating her own universes. Since it's already said they're beyond everything, and it's all done with their own power instead. "Where" the final point is, is beyond creation just like them. Creation involves all the possible universes, dimensions and timelines. Stuff like that.

When they start fighting is when Alovenus starts spamming them with her own universes. At this point, everything is based on their own concepts and creations, however just like how Alovenus designed creation including how everything is built, they can follow the same example with their structure. When they exit the universe and creation, they can see everything. Represented as tiny dots spread around the place, because they've surpassed it all

 

[Phoenks]

Yeah imo the Final Point sounds way more like Low 1-A since it is basically a canvas that holds every possible spatial/dimensional world. And just being undimensioned/beyond space-time doesn't make something inherently 1-A. I don't see any ontological gaps throughout the text or in the cosmology blog either.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

I am pretty sure this is also combined with other context like the computer analogy, where they see that stuff as lesser than them as someone viewing what's behind a computer screen. It's used in conjunction with the final point itself which is also said to be beyond those concepts.

That and the fact Alovenus also views everything that happens on the universe as a game, where if her character dies it wouldn't harm her in real life at all. They'd never be able to fight her in that way. So then they reach beyond that, which seems to work with the other evidences. At least I think, wasn't brought up in this blog so

 

[Phoenks]

I am pretty sure this is also combined with other context like the computer analogy, where they see that stuff as lesser than them as someone viewing what's behind a computer screen. It's used in conjunction with the final point itself which is also said to be beyond those concepts.

That and the fact Alovenus also views everything that happens on the universe as a game, where if her character dies it wouldn't harm her in real life at all. They'd never be able to fight her in that way. So then they reach beyond that, which seems to work with the other evidences. At least I think, wasn't brought up in this blog so

Computer analogy doesn't really work since we see that universes, multiverses, omniverses and whatnot are all simply a lot bigger than the last ones, to the point of reducing them to cells and such. There isn't really any R>F or ontological separation I get from it.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

These should be part of what Alovenus created at least what we got from it. At this point they do everything based on their own whims, concepts and creations. Which is why we see that when they start, they're dwarfing everything. But with the universes she created, and new multiverses they became specs to her again despite being bigger than creation itself in the same way God's are in a conceptual way, which should include that cosmology of the folders, folders containing them which represent those higher dimensions.

Spoiler: Creation

A universe is contained within a dimension, like a folder. And each dimension should have an infinite amount of parallel timelines. Then we have have a dimension (folder) than can hold those, then we take an infinite amount of those and you can get a higher dimension. That's an example of how creation works or at least how it's provided. Where building up a certain amount can create something higher. Each computer can hold a framework like this, and then Alovenus governs everything. There is also no end to the "dots" that they see which includes all that. The normal way to view things for them is different though. By then we get Alovenus shrinking the universes they're in and stuff to then make more.

Spoiler: Concept and Monitor stuff

"Concepts, providence, laws, and limits—all of these are decided by gods, so it follows that none of them exist in their dominion. We would have had to create them on our own". The computer analogy and stuff matters because whatever build up, and the concepts that are involved within creation are still like a game or something behind the screen to Alovenus. We get a bunch of statements of an author writing a script, her viewing the other side of a monitor, wanting to be involved with stories. Along with where it's said everything was in the dimension of God's, and supernatural in conparisplon. Hence why when they do reach that level, concepts like time, size and everything else are a non factor for them, and decided by themselves as gods. These newly created universes, and multiverses function the same way. So the concepts of "size" "composition", everything else are decided by them with every action while fighting completely different from the what's involved with creation. But they do follow a similar idea, which would make sense since Alovenus did make creation as well. That being building a bunch if something up to make another, or a character getting stronger than the one that can destroy a universe. Kinda like a dev putting their idea into a game, but that idea they took is from real life I guess? But it does seem like this analogy is what they were going for, since it also fits with the rest of the statements, and even comments on dimensions. Especially considering basically every volume she is referred to as similar things. An author, a player who can't be hurt by stuff in game, or in this case other types of data.

Whatever this qualifies for guess we'll see, and if I missed something/got a part wrong hopefully gets pointed out but yeah

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I read through it and yeah I have the same concerns. I am unsure if it is the same in the novel but like...

There is so much stuff that compositions the size of the Cosmology.















Even the final point seems to constantly be referred to with measurable terms:





I'm also really confused on where the Final Point is exactly. Like is says they are in the Final Point at the start but then we see them go through universes, Multiverses, etc, with the scale constantly increasing from there.

I don't think the stuff with Alovenus creating a universe in the Final Point means that much. It seems to be basically just her creating a reality on her own level of existence, which is also noted to not behave in strange ways that are not at all like a normal world:

A Wild Last Boss Appeared 186: Iâm The Best In The World! Iâm Really Strong!

Author: Fire Head (çé ) Translator: Hand of Vecna Editors: TpstT, Keii 第ï¼ï¼ï¼è©±ããã®ãããã ããã㧠ãã¡ã°ãï¼ ã¤ããã£ã¦ ãã¨ãªãã§ããï¼ ð https://handofvecna.blo...

handofvecna.blogspot.com

For the Goddess to be speaking while they were in a state where even light stood still, it might have seemed all too strange. After all, at this level of battle, the speed of sound was almost negligible. However, the one speaking was the Goddess, who could bend the laws of nature to her will. It was too easy for her to twist reason and disregard contradictions.

In the first place, it was already strange that they were having a conversation in space. Common sense didn’t apply…No, there wasn’t even a fragment of common sense here anymore. Everything here was paranormal, but there was one thing that had not changed.

—The stronger one would win. This was an absolute law that would never change.

And those universes apparently share of similar properties to the Final Point itself, too, since even while Ruphas and co. are in them, the narration notes that time doesn't exist:

“Cleave it away, Selection Scales—Brachium!”

The torrent of destruction unleashed by Ruphas countered the hypernova explosion from within. Time itself no longer existed here, so it was no longer restricted to being used once per day. The swirling light of destruction targeted the entire galaxy supercluster.

The computer analogy also doesn't really make the Final Point into something materially composite, since in the context of that analogy, it's just supposed to be the space outside the computers, and not something made out of computers.

That said, this is pretty suspicious:

A Wild Last Boss Appeared 188: Alovenus’ Eyes Became Pitch Black

Author: Fire Head (炎頭) Translator: Hand of Vecna Editors: TpstT, Keii 第１８８話　アロヴィナスは目の前が真っ暗になった 🏠 https://handofvecna.blogspot.com It ...

handofvecna.blogspot.com

The after-effects, which couldn’t simply be described as shockwaves anymore, spread throughout the infinite Final Point. The after-effects covered several hundred millions or even several trillions of light-years in an instant and continued on indefinitely.

At the center, Ruphas and Alovenus circled each other in flight and crossed their blades. The battle, which had been extremely flamboyant until now, had turned into a simple sword fight. However, even though they didn’t look flashy, all of their attacks were absolutely deadly.

Their blades collided and numerous dimensions collapsed. Their swords clashed and many timelines shattered. Lightning-quick strikes crossed each other and cracks ran through the Final Point.

Their swords locked with each other. When they thought they would be blown away by each other’s attack, they instantly launched a full-body assault, scattering sparks in the process.

They didn’t even know what was being broken by the after-effects. They didn’t care anyway. Their eyes met. Ruphas looked at her fiercely, while Alovenus laughed happily.

The side-effects of Ruphas and Alovenus' fight explicitly travel across trillions of light-years, while in the Final Point, and these same after-effects are noted to be damaging the structure of the place as well. Any explanation?

 

[Tsavorae]

That said, this is pretty suspicious:

A Wild Last Boss Appeared 188: Alovenus’ Eyes Became Pitch Black

Author: Fire Head (炎頭) Translator: Hand of Vecna Editors: TpstT, Keii 第１８８話　アロヴィナスは目の前が真っ暗になった 🏠 https://handofvecna.blogspot.com It ...

handofvecna.blogspot.com

The side-effects of Ruphas and Alovenus' fight explicitly travel across trillions of light-years, while in the Final Point, and these same after-effects are noted to be damaging the structure of the place as well. Any explanation?

Here's the light novel version

Spoiler: Volume 9, Main Story Part 8

They leapt forward and clashed. A blast too violent to merely be called a shock wave was created, and it spread to the ends of this theoretically infinite Endpoint. The wave traveled millions upon trillions of light-years, spreading out seemingly forever. At the center of all this, Lufas and Alovenus clashed swords over and over, flying around in a circle. Things had taken a turn from the over-the-top, flashy fight from earlier, transforming into a relatively tame sword fight.

However, while things looked less flashy, every swing was lethally destructive. Their blades clashed, and many dimensions were destroyed. Their swords once again clashed, and multitudes of timelines were broken and shattered. They exchanged blows that sounded like thunderclaps, and cracks ran throughout the Endpoint. They entered a pushing contest with their swords, and every time one of them got knocked away, they came back the next moment with an all-out attack, sending sparks flying everywhere. At this point, it was unknowable how much damage the aftereffects of their fight were causing. Neither of the combatants cared either.

The two of them locked eyes. Lufas’s smile was belligerent and fierce, while Alovenus simply laughed like she was having fun.

The side-effects of their fight will gradually become stronger and more deadly than before, so, that's just how it is.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Here's the light novel version

Spoiler: Volume 9, Main Story Part 8

They leapt forward and clashed. A blast too violent to merely be called a shock wave was created, and it spread to the ends of this theoretically infinite Endpoint. The wave traveled millions upon trillions of light-years, spreading out seemingly forever. At the center of all this, Lufas and Alovenus clashed swords over and over, flying around in a circle. Things had taken a turn from the over-the-top, flashy fight from earlier, transforming into a relatively tame sword fight.

However, while things looked less flashy, every swing was lethally destructive. Their blades clashed, and many dimensions were destroyed. Their swords once again clashed, and multitudes of timelines were broken and shattered. They exchanged blows that sounded like thunderclaps, and cracks ran throughout the Endpoint. They entered a pushing contest with their swords, and every time one of them got knocked away, they came back the next moment with an all-out attack, sending sparks flying everywhere. At this point, it was unknowable how much damage the aftereffects of their fight were causing. Neither of the combatants cared either.

The two of them locked eyes. Lufas’s smile was belligerent and fierce, while Alovenus simply laughed like she was having fun.

The side-effects of their fight will gradually become stronger and more deadly than before, so, that's just how it is.

So there are, in fact, light-years in the Final Point?

 

[Tsavorae]

So there are, in fact, light-years in the Final Point?

The light-year thing is just a detailed recap of the previous sentence, so yeah, but it also highlights that the wave traveled forever, after that.

Well, this repetition of explanations is just a habit of the author, similar to when Alovenus created the recursive universe at the end of the chapter, and it was recapped again at the beginning of the next chapter.

 

[Phoenks]

I don't think the stuff with Alovenus creating a universe in the Final Point means that much. It seems to be basically just her creating a reality on her own level of existence, which is also noted to not behave in strange ways that are not at all like a normal world:

The issue I have is these universes, multiverses, omniverses, etc already seem to exist throughout the Final Point. As it says the Final Point connects to the entire cosmology. And I don't believe they were created by Alovenus during the fight. As they are pretty much just mentioned as they go through the battle. Like in the scene I mentioned above.

Neither of them was thinking about how high they had reached in this conflict over offense and defense. They were simply not interested. They went beyond the initial universe, and beyond, and beyond, and beyond, and beyond, and beyond—beyond the universe, beyond the multiverse, beyond the omniverse.

And based on the measurability of these objects, even inside of the Final Point, I don't see how it could actually be detached from space-time in a way that constitutes 1-A, personally.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

These are also part of what she created more likely, because the multiverse is already a thing that they are beyond. But then, we have Alovenus spam more universes, to also create a multiverse and beyond that. They also spam everything they had on each other, so she's likely spamming it again.

As for the light-years things, not sure if it helps but they add their own definitions to the things they do, increase and add. Like them increasing their definition of speed. Like a "light speed" can already be faster than an "'Infinite speed". Seems the author uses these terms like as a theoretical example to describe their strength, stats and after effects. And just like the slashes travelled "seemingly forever" as it said right after that light year stuff. So these light-years are mostly not normal, or a proper measurable distance at all. Instead it's whatever they've added.

Spoiler: Definition

Lufas continued to get ever faster, continuing to double the speed of light to increase the definition of speed itself without end. However, Alovenus accelerated at a pace that left such definitions behind in the dust. The next moment, Lufas did the same thing back to Alovenus."

At this point the definition and view of things are no longer normally logical. Just like the concept of strength doesn't really exist for them, speed and distance really shouldn't normally exist either so it's all based off point of view since it's already completely different in scope. Which also factors in their own "'infinity" (and what their own infinite strength causes) and what is stronger while they fight each other. Their slashes spread throughout the "'theoretically infinite" Endpoint. So it's likely these slashes just travelled immediately, since they were reaching the ends of the final point. They were also starting to make cracks in it. Their own definitions and settings caught up and probably were surpassing it by that point. Settings which also allow them to manipulate the world and scenario to whatever they want, and apply new laws to their convenience while pushing any form of reason aside.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

As for the light-years things, not sure if it helps but they add their own definitions to the things they do, increase and add. Like them increasing their definition of speed. Like a "light speed" can already be faster than an "'Infinite speed". Seems the author uses these terms like as a theoretical example to describe their strength, stats and after effects. And just like the slashes travelled "seemingly forever" as it said right after that light year stuff. So these light-years are mostly not normal, or a proper measurable distance at all. Instead it's whatever they've added.

I understand the deal with "settings" and whatnot, yes. From what I gather, though, this refers to their ability to just endlessly increase their power and sprout new abilities on a whim, and not to any form of alteration of the setting itself. During that portion of the battle, even, they were fighting directly in the white emptiness of the Final Point, and yet light-years (A measure of distance and therefore space) still exists in it. If that has no explanation at all, then, yeah...

 

[Tsavorae]

I understand the deal with "settings" and whatnot, yes. From what I gather, though, this refers to their ability to just endlessly increase their power and sprout new abilities on a whim, and not to any form of alteration of the setting itself. During that portion of the battle, even, they were fighting directly in the white emptiness of the Final Point, and yet light-years (A measure of distance and therefore space) still exists in it. If that has no explanation at all, then, yeah...

In that case, then, size isn't really absent there. After all, we can also see that when the concept of size is mentioned as not being present in the endpoint, in that space, the context just highlights that size is relative there. Yeah, it seems to be just a figurative.

Spoiler: Volume 9, Main Story Part 5

Mizgarz itself was only a small part of one of these universes. It was nothing more than a small planet, existing quietly amongst many other planets inside a single galaxy amidst clusters of other galaxies.
This was the definition of completely altered scales. It didn’t matter how monstrous Lufas and her group was; that only applied to their small celestial body. Those accolades held no power this far away. At least, that was what Alovenus had thought. That was why she was currently the most shocked she’d ever been, so much so that her body physically shivered. Not only had her sanctuary been invaded, there were three of them. They were all arrayed before her, looking very determined. There was no concept of size in this space, as once Lufas and the other two had crossed through the universe itself, they had become equal to Alovenus. They, who should have been nothing but specks in a vast universe, had undoubtedly come as true enemies.​

 

[Ultima_Reality]

In that case, then, size isn't really absent there.

Yeah, and that is precisely the point. If measures of distance are applicable there, then the idea that the Final Point transcends size is contradicted. And I don't see anything whatsoever that suggests this might be figurative.

 

[Everything12]

I'm am currently undergoing chemo and am not in the best of states, I am not happy I'm doing this instead of recovering so I'm not going to sugarcoat it.

There was no concept of size in this space, as once Ruphas and the other two had crossed through the universe itself, they had become equal to Alovenus. They, who should have been nothing but specks in a vast universe, had undoubtedly come as true enemies.

The text specifically says here what that their is no concept of size, to ignore this is to ignore what the text flat out without any amibigouty says. On top of that it then goes on to clarify that Ruphas and the others who should be just specks are equal to the goddess because of arriving here. Meanwhile, while fighting Alovenus and Ruphas just makes up rules and settings as they go along based solely on their perceptive, the final point is a lawless canvas where the pure subjective will of those who are in it decides entirely how things functions.

This mention of light-years is clearly just from the perspective of the two combatants (to use as a frame of reference for the reader who does need size to figure out how things look and act) and isn't actual light-years. Because one again the text straight up says.

There was no concept of size in this space

So to say otherwise isn;t death of the author, it's just ignoring the text.

 

[SweetDao]

Honestly, I share Everything12 opinion on this one. I don't know if the verse can reach 1-A or not, but mentions of space/distance clearly written for the reader's sake shouldn't be an antifeat by itself.

Really, the author decided to write "light-years" because it sounds impressive and can help people understand how "far" the shockwaves went.

Wouldn't the fact that those universes are inside the Final Point be more damning ?

Lufas and the other two’s vision was smothered in white that seemed to go on forever. There was no point in wondering how far the place stretched, for it stretched on endlessly. This place was quite literally infinite. In opposition to the never-ending white, there were black points in several places, each of which was a universe. Mizgarz itself was only a small part of one of these universes. It was nothing more than a small planet, existing quietly amongst many other planets inside a single galaxy amidst clusters of other galaxies.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

Well everything they do at this point is in their viewpoint and perspective. "Lightyears" seems to be in the view of the combatants, and for the readers. As everything else they do is also on their own applications. "'Lightyears" is no longer normal, which should also fall in line with what they find their own definition of light is to begin with. Like let's say they travel their own speed, which is their own definition of the speed of light, or faster. Everything is shaped to their convenience. Then, they travel a certain amount. This should also be applying to their own definitions, speed and whatever else they view is. The shockwaves are the same. Lightyears is the distance light travels. But in this case, that light would be referring to them, and what their definition of lightspeed or beyond is. Plus...at this point in the battle I doubt an actual real lightyears is relevant to them, so using it as an actual measurement wouldn't be meaningful. When dealing with even the supposed the shockwaves themselves. If they are making their own definition of speed to this degree, any amount of lightyears just wouldn't matter. I would think any "distance" related would also be based on how they view it, and how their rules reach.

Like above was said, the fp is a canvas, painted over by the will of gods who determine how things function with no size. A place to layer their own rules and such. By this point, they just became strong enough as well that their rules are basically reaching to that level.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Well everything they do at this point is in their viewpoint and perspective. "Lightyears" seems to be in the view of the combatants, and for the readers. As everything else they do is also on their own applications. "'Lightyears" is no longer normal, which should also fall in line with what they find their own definition of light is to begin with. Like let's say they travel their own speed, which is their own definition of the speed of light, or faster. Everything is shaped to their convenience. Then, they travel a certain amount. This should also be applying to their own definitions, speed and whatever else they view is. The shockwaves are the same. Lightyears is the distance light travels. But in this case, that light would be referring to them, and what their definition of lightspeed or beyond is. Plus...at this point in the battle I doubt an actual real lightyears is relevant to them, so using it as an actual measurement wouldn't be meaningful. When dealing with even the supposed the shockwaves themselves. If they are making their own definition of speed to this degree, any amount of lightyears just wouldn't matter. I would think any "distance" related would also be based on how they view it, and how their rules reach.

Like above was said, the fp is a canvas, painted over by the will of gods who determine how things function with no size. A place to layer their own rules and such. By this point, they just became strong enough as well that their rules are basically reaching to that level.

Hm. Yeah, fair enough on that. I suppose the brief mention of "light-years" ultimately is outnumbered by other statements on the Final Point's nature (e.g. No concept of size, no concepts/laws/limits/providence, etc), so in that regard, it isn't really any more of an issue than Ruphas and Alovenus having human forms while in it. Seems the Final Point itself would fall under this bit in the BDE page:

Furthermore, keep in mind that Type 2 Beyond-Dimensional Existence (In particular the latter variant) is not simply a combination of a non-dimensional state of existence and greater raw power than all dimensional structures in a cosmology – Though that is a necessary condition to qualify for it, it is not a sufficient one. Instead, the non-dimensional state of existence must be the direct cause of the character/realm's superiority over dimensions. A simple example being voids of nothingness that lack space, time and physicality entirely, but are nonetheless "vaster" than physical reality in some way, with common imagery being the universe as a small object encompassed in such a backdrop.

Add that to the whole "Concepts are beneath here," and it seems you have a decently solid case of a qualitative jump.

Wouldn't the fact that those universes are inside the Final Point be more damning ?

Wouldn't say so at all. The Final Point being depicted in space-like terms isn't exactly much of an issue.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

So basically we got a place which holds everything, universes are mere dots within, but at the same time has no concept of size or limits, and Ruphas and Alovenus are disregarding logic making up stuff as they go along like children arguing over a vs debate.

Assuming this is all good, anyone who reaches the final point becomes 1-A, ie Benetnash and Orm, but Ruphas and Alovenus are far superior due to reaching the peak of infinity

Spoiler: Peak of Infinity

“Hehehe…That’s a big claim to make. Can you really do it though? My tantrums are a little excessive in terms of scale, if I may say so myself.”

“I don’t mind.”

Ruphas beckoned with her hand and Benetnash, who had been waiting for Ruphas to finish her conversation, sighed in astonishment. Orm also smiled bitterly. The two of them looked at each other and nodded.

“I don’t feel like putting up with this. You can deal with this spoiled child by yourself.”

“I agree…is what I’d like to say, but it seems even we cannot reach the world beyond. We’ll leave the rest to you.”

Beyond this would be a battle in the realm of God where everything happened according to one’s thoughts. The current realm could already be considered a battle of the gods by most people. Indeed, Benetnash and Orm were powerful enough to fight in this realm.

However, they understood it after hearing her laughter. The Big Bangs and Big Crunches so far were just playful attacks by the Goddess, who was merely messing around. She hadn’t been fighting seriously.

But the next stage would be even higher. They would have to rise to the peak of infinity. It would be an endless struggle involving infinite multiples of infinity.-Chapter 187

They reached the highest possible form of stronger, infinity, and yet Ruphas power still increase somehow

Spoiler: Infinity

At the center, Ruphas and Alovenus circled each other in flight and crossed their blades. The battle, which had been extremely flamboyant until now, had turned into a simple sword fight. However, even though they didn’t look flashy, all of their attacks were absolutely deadly.

Their blades collided and numerous dimensions collapsed. Their swords clashed and many timelines shattered. Lightning-quick strikes crossed each other and cracks ran through the Final Point.

Their swords locked with each other. When they thought they would be blown away by each other’s attack, they instantly launched a full-body assault, scattering sparks in the process.

They didn’t even know what was being broken by the after-effects. They didn’t care anyway. Their eyes met. Ruphas looked at her fiercely, while Alovenus laughed happily.

“……Ha!”

Ruphas swung her sword down, but Alovenus jumped and evaded it. Then, Alovenus flipped her dress and swung her blade, scattering slashes before Ruphas’ eyes. All of the scattered slashes had absolute accuracy and would inflict absolute destruction. But both of them cut each other’s slashes down, closed the distance, and crossed their blades again, sending out even more shockwaves.

They seemed to be evenly matched…No, they were actually evenly matched. As long as both parties kept repeating “I’m stronger” in relation to the other party, there could be neither superiority nor inferiority between them. Now that they had reached the highest possible form of being the “strongest”, this battle could only result in a stalemate.

It was a simple equation that even a child could understand. When it was a matter of infinity versus infinity, there could be no answer as to which of them was superior. At least, that was how it should have been.

However, Ruphas began to push back with her sword, while Alovenus showed signs of impatience on her face for the first time.-Chapter 188

Ruphas and Alovenus become infinitely above baseline 1-A, but don't reach another layer is what it looks like.

 

[Everything12]

I'm pretty sure they are technically several infinities above baseline considering how infinity was thrown about like candy. But yeah, they still only reach levels that are quantitatively higher and so are still baseline layer.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Who really even counts the infinities lol, the fight is akin to a children's quarrel, it's meant to be ridiculous.

Idk in what instance we would ever even seriously discuss it because it's so ridiculous.

Unless someone seriously tries to argue some other baseline 1-A character has a bigger infinity than AWLBA, in which case we are going to engaging in the same sort of battle as Ruphas vs Alovenus, which is ironic, since AWLBA is a parody of power scaling

 

[Everything12]

I'm tempted to count the number of time infinity was used now.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

With how much they throw out infinity there and how it's used, hard to quantify especially their layers of hax and well...everything actually lol. Someone somehow having a "bigger infinity" well...that will quickly not be the case infront of them that's for sure. Especially when they drop an actual setting where they declare they're the strongest character too that can't be surpassed either. More than a normal growth is needed to surpass that plot. Benetnash and Orm will be involved as well (albeit left in the dust by the other two as usual, not their fault truly)

Seems like the light years stuff is alright, and the final point has a good arguement for qualitative. Assuming it does goes through, would any of their descriptions need to change? Only one though I guess is Alovenus who can have a part removed to leave the one where she paints over the final point.

 

[Tsavorae]

Then, I might suggest a new improved cosmology page (which i have taken some parts from the current cosmology page) and a new 1-A justification for them:

Spoiler: 1-A

Outerverse level (Exists within the Endpoint which is a conceptless, aspatial and atemporal white nothingness that acts as a blank canvas upon which can be painted over by Gods—all and every possible creations such as concepts, laws, dimensions, worlds, parallel worlds, and timelines—can be infinitely painted over it due to its conceptually sizeless nature. In relation to it, all the multiverses are nothing but a speck of dust in its vastness, while from the point of view of its inhabitants, these things are just like computers, with many recursive folders, where the deepest ones contain softwares, and each of which has saved data. All of creation is a set of toys to them, the universe itself is nothing more than a game played on a computer, and messing with the game wouldn't affect her in real life. Her power can be compared to that of an author who can arbitrarily create and freely flip everything upside down. She paints her own concepts, laws, providences and limits over this canvas, as within this realm God's are also freed from all of these restrictions. Merely believing she is stronger than her opponent makes her so, she can insist infinity is just 1 before her and continuously transcend to higher levels. Eventually just the aftereffects of Ruphas and Alovenus colliding created shockwaves which spread throughout the Endpoint and even caused cracks within it. Even then, her power kept increasing)