A vampire fights a suc

[DMB_1]

That makes me even more confused. Explain.

 

[Udlmaster]

Mages can use their hax on 8-D/11-D beings like the Demons to repel them and such.

Lilith is the strongest Mage, and during that time, she made Caine a Mage.

 

[DMB_1]

Define "hax".

What can they use?

 

[Udlmaster]

Check their page, technically, most of their hax work on Demons. Obviously, some don't work.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Still reality warp on a level equal to 8D beings, is still 1-C doe.

"Stated to have beaten an angel"

The proof for 1-C is literally the same thing though an angel instead of a demon.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

"It's not 1-C powers, it's just 8-D magic"

...

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

>Reality Warping over an 8D structure.
This should outright be listed as 1-C in his tier.

At least Complex Multiverse level (Able to affect the entire Tellurium, which was stated to exist in 8-D, stated to be able to kill an Angel)

 

[DMB_1]

Oh, and that immeasurable speed in base form.

...

I've never seen a verse where characters are kept into 3D tiering tough "semi-metaphorical" talking while being able to fight Tier 2/1 beings.

It's usually the complete opposite.

 

[DMB_1]

At least Complex Multiverse level (Able to affect the entire Tellurium, which was stated to exist in 8-D, stated to be able to kill an Angel)

The issue is that we are debating with his Low 2-C key.

 

[Udlmaster]

They can, and fighting Demons is both rare, and very catastrophic.

It doesn't end well for the front line people, let's put it like that.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

...So, why is Low 2-C caine have "8-D hax lol" again?

 

[Udlmaster]

Because he has the same powers of the Mages, as he's a Mage himself.

He scales above Lilith, the strongest Mage, who was scared of him.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Affecting 8D people through reality warping is still 1-C doe.

 

[Udlmaster]

But they don't affect 8-D beings with RW.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

>Beat demons with hax

>Don't affect 8D things with hax

Make up your mind

 

[Udlmaster]

"technically, most of their hax work on Demons. Obviously, some don't work."

I literally said that earlier.

 

[Udlmaster]

Eitherway, she has no way of getting around the Seven-Fold curse, and Caine resists Mind Manip from Demons and even from Angels.

Then Caine would follow up with...anything and one shot.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Except she has her own attack reflection

 

[Udlmaster]

And how does it work?

What does it do?

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

All spells used on her that don't work will be turned back at the caster with their own power. This includes hax.


Like, if you used a mind control spell, and it failed, you'd get mind controlled instead.

 

[Udlmaster]

Yeah, and 8-D spells negs that.

Then also, this doesn't sound like a passive spell, it sounds like it must be cast.

And what spell is this called?

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

No, it's Mal's passive.


And he doesen't have 8-D hax in his Low 2-C key for the last time.

 

[Udlmaster]

Um, yes, he does. Zach, you know literally nothing about the verse, you don't get the last word.

And yes, they are.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

"You know nothing about the verse so he has 8-D hax"


No. I know nothing about the verse so it's your job to provide evidence of this.

 

[Udlmaster]

What? I don't have to prove a negative.

I've shown that their powers work on Demons, who created literally every dimension in the verse.

And you don't get to say anything about the verse, because everything you say on it is an Argument from Ignorence.

If you want to say they're not, then provide evidence on why Demons/Angels aren't 8-D/11-D

 

[The_Causality]

...soooooooo basically, it"s:

• Cain isn't Low 2-C and stomp
• Cain is Low 2-C and stomp

???

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Oh no


Demons and Angels are tier 1


But if he can fight him in his Low 2-C key, he shouldn't have a Low 2-C key


Either that or he can't fight them in his Low 2-C key and thus isn't a smurf


Pick one

 

[Udlmaster]

What?

It's other people claiming Caine has 8-D RW (Which he doesn't), and is why people are saying he shouldn't be Low 2-C.

 

[Paul_Frank]

What?
It's other people claiming Caine has 8-D RW (Which he doesn't), and is why people are saying he shouldn't be Low 2-C.

If he can beat angels and demons then either the angels and demons should be low 2-C or he should be 1-C

 

[Udlmaster]

If I beat someone with Hax, that doesn't scale to their AP.

 

[DMB_1]

Not all of his hax can ignore durability though.

 

[Udlmaster]

Yeah, I know, and those, like Fireball, and Ice, Earth etc. Manip don't work on Demons anyway.

They have Nigh-Invulerability to physical attacks anyway, it's literally one of their abilities which negates all physical damage, so, he doesn't have AP on the Demons level.

 

[ABoogieYesSir]

Just BFR them instead

 

[Udlmaster]

Caine can just seal Mal into the Second dimension.

Or throw her into the Supernal and get her absorbed and erased.