A quick Cooler revision

[ZillertheBucko]

well what we have in your "evidence" is a definitive statement from cooler making it clear that he didn't learn it from goku, and there's a good chance that he didn't even use IT in the first movie since that came from before the move EVEN EXISTED

due to the timeline error here, can we just close the thread, we've already brought up like 5 separate damning points, and now every staff member disagrees, on top of one of the evidences not even being in english
the crt absolutely cannot work, it's over

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

He didn't, because he did not have this ability in the first movie

It'd explain how Cooler could easily sneak up on the likes of Piccolo, who only noticed him once Cooler had made his presence known

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

well what we have in your "evidence" is a definitive statement from cooler making it clear that he didn't learn it from goku, and there's a good chance that he didn't even use IT in the first movie since that came from before the move EVEN EXISTED

The manga was still in development you know, it's not like they didn't implemented stuff from the movies before it was released in the manga before (False SSJ)

 

[ZillertheBucko]

The manga was still in development you know, it's not like they didn't implemented stuff from the movies before it was released in the manga before (False SSJ)

ok, I guess we can do this the hard way
let's way for a few hundred other members and staff to come disagree with this before we close it, give every man the right to a fair crt I say

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

It'd explain how Cooler could easily sneak up on the likes of Piccolo, who only noticed him once Cooler had made his presence known

When did Piccolo fought Cooler in the first movie?

 

[TheRustyOne]

But it's literally impossible for him to have copied it from Goku.

Since the first movie came out almost a full month before we saw the technique. It's a big universe and he had be traveling around it for such a long time. The fact of the matter is that it seems like he learned IT after he became a part of the Big Gete Star, and was shocked to see Goku knew the technique as well.

He just knows it somehow, him faking surprise and saying he copied it is pure speculation right now. Unless you have some evidence that supports your notion?

Also I've yet to see anything that shows he copied Goku's Reactive Evolution either.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

When did Piccolo fought Cooler in the first movie?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

He was focusing on Salza before Cooler attacked. Piccolo was simply caught off guard

 

[Shmooply]

I really don't see the point in using the "but this move was shown in canon after the movie!" argument when the Dragon Ball Z movies have done this kind of nonsense before. Goku almost turns super saiyan in Lord Slug, even though the movie came out weeks before the chapter where Goku turns into a super saiyan was released. Though I guess this isn't a good comparison.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

If anything, we should give Base Cooler "possibly Teleportation" since he had no times to learn it after fusing the Big Gete Star
It's also supported with Dragon Ball Z: Shin Budokai showing Cooler being able to use IT in Base

 

[ZillertheBucko]

So cooler could have instant transmission, but under no circumstances did he learn it from goku, as directly contradicted by his own statement that you linked in the OP. The end.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

If anything, we should give Base Cooler "possibly Teleportation" since he had no times to learn it after fusing the Big Gete Star
It's also supported with Dragon Ball Z: Shin Budokai showing Cooler being able to use IT in Base

The games doesn't share the same universe as the movies, so I don't think that counts. But there's literally no period of time that Cooler could've learned that technique properly from the Yardratians, and if even if we go by the notion that the Big Gete Star copied IT from someone else, that would mean Cooler would still copy IT, even if it isn't Goku's IT

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

So cooler could have instant transmission, but under no circumstances did he learn it from goku, as directly contradicted by his own statement that you linked in the OP. The end.

There's no other person he could've learned instant transmittion from, as he was dead and there was no time between movie 5 and 6 that he could've gone to Yardrat to acquire the technique himself

 

[TheRustyOne]

I really don't see the point in using the "but this move was shown in canon after the movie!" argument when the Dragon Ball Z movies have done this kind of nonsense before. Goku almost turns super saiyan in Lord Slug, even though the movie came out weeks before the chapter where Goku turns into a super saiyan was released. Though I guess this wouldn't be as good of a comparison.

Not it really isn't a good comparison. Not unless someone can provide evidence that Goku was using IT in the first movie?

No one has posted proof of Goku using IT in the first movie. And no one has shown proof on why Cooler decided to fake being surprised that Goku knew the technique. His statement straight up says he's shocked that Goku knows it as well. Why wasn't he shocked when Goku used it during their first battle?

The ability itself isn't a surprise to him, just the fact that Goku can use it.

It seems very clear to me that Cooler did not copy Instant Transmission from Goku. He just somehow knows it.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

The games doesn't share the same universe as the movies, so I don't think that counts. But there's literally no period of time that Cooler could've learned that technique properly from the Yardratians, and if even if we go by the notion that the Big Gete Star copied IT from someone else, that would mean Cooler would still copy IT, even if it isn't Goku's IT

What you’re suggesting is this
Limited power mimicry (can be taught how to do shit)
Massive moment

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

The games doesn't share the same universe as the movies, so I don't think that counts. But there's literally no period of time that Cooler could've learned that technique properly from the Yardratian

The games can be supporting evidence, plus we have no clue what the Cooler Force was doing before the first movie

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

What you’re suggesting is this
Limited power mimicry (can be taught how to do shit)
Massive moment

Cooler never learned it like Goku did. He had no time to learn it by going to Yardrat because he was dead

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

The games can be supporting evidence, plus we have no clue what the Cooler Force was doing before the first movie

The fact he never tried to even use it in the movie against Goku despite the move being in-character for him, heavily implies he did not have it before meeting Goku

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Cooler never learned it. He had no time to learn it because he was dead

Ok how about we skip this and I just ask you to directly address the big issue
why the hell did cooler not know goku could use it if he copied it from him.
Gonna take a wild guess and say the reason you have dodged this, is because you can't explain it.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

The fact he never tried to even use it in the movie against Goku despite the move being in-character for him, heavily implies he did not have it before meeting Goku

I mean, there are many moments where Cooler just randomly appears in the sky, which would be impossible since normally flight would prevent one from concealing one's ki
The true reason he didnt show it was because it wasn't created yet tho

 

[Shmooply]

Does anyone know if the "dash" and the Instant Transmission sound effect are used interchangeably in the anime? Because as was shown before in the Japanese version of the scene, the dash Goku performs at the start of his fight with Cooler makes the same sound that IT sometimes makes.

Not leaning towards any side yet, just posting some arguments for the OP.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Goku almost turns super saiyan in Lord Slug, even though the movie came out weeks before the chapter where Goku turns into a super saiyan was released.

For Lord Slug — "Super Saiyan Son Goku" in Japan — Toei Animation explicitly worked closely with Toriyama prior to the reveal in the manga in order to nail the logistics of the Super Saiyan form, with the only details neglected being the color palette.

Does anyone know if the "dash" and the Instant Transmission sound effect are used interchangeably in the anime? Because as was shown before in the Japanese version of the scene, the dash Goku performs at the start of his fight with Cooler makes the same sound that IT sometimes makes.

That and this are not quite the same.

 

[Duedate8898]

I do actually think I will be closing this thread, I see no point in prolonging it since the points provided by the OP have been rejected in full. If the OP would like to attempt this upgrade again, I'd advise a compilation of more evidence to support this upgrade.