A question about lightning and electrical devices

[Antvasima]

I am not sure if I understand you properly.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Neither.

 

[Kaltias]

@Lina

We already do this with speed calculations involving projectiles, don't we?

@Ant @Matt

I think that Lina meant that we should use the ratio between the two speeds instead of the timeframe for the calcs

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I don't get it. Dodging Lightning calcs should be like any other dodging calc.

 

[Kaltias]

┬»\_(Òâä)_/┬». That's what I understood.

I always calced dodging feats this way anyway because it prevents issues with cinematic timing

 

[Lina_Shields]

So basically, nothing major really changes, other than lightning in fiction = actual lightning speed

• provided that said character is able to generate as much energy into their attacks as a real lightning bolt would, or higher.

As for my previous point, it just means that lightning in fiction = automatically lightning speed, regardless of how fast/slow it is shown to travel on screen.

Now as for the lightning bolts that are > cloud-based lightning in terms of speed, I am not sure if we should just keep the speed for those (Abigail's lightning, looking at you), or if the speed for said lightning should just be changed to regular lightning speed...

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, but we do not have a plan yet for what to do if the energy is 9-A or less.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

If fictional lightning is faster, than it is, honestly. Just like it can be slower.

 

[Lina_Shields]

@Kaltias: It's nothing complex as that.

I was just saying that since we consider the majority of the lightning in fiction as having actual lightning speed now, we just calculate all of electric/lightning dodging feats on the assumption that these electric discharges are always going to be moving at MHS+ speeds, unless we are shown that the speed of these discharges < MHS+ in terms of speed.

So nothing in terms of lightning-dodging changes right now.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

If lightning excede large buidling DC by feats, does its speed also logically go up from there?

 

[Lina_Shields]

Considering that we are treating fictional lightning being just as fast (if not faster) than actual lightning at this point, I would think that a direct calculation/measurement is needed if you want to claim that a bolt of lightning in fiction is to be slower than an actual lightning bolt?

As for how we deal with speed of electricity from characters bordering on 9-A or less, perhaps these speeds can be directly scaled from whatever speed stat these characters have.

• An electrical attack coming from a character that is Supersonic+ in speed would mean that these attacks are coming at Supersonic+ speeds.
• An electrical attack that can be directly measured via comparing with a different projectile (in terms of speed) will have its calculated speed prioritized over an assumed speed, meaning if said electric bolt was measured to move at Mach 15, that specific result would take priority over using regular lightning speed in this case.

 

[A_DB_Fan_named_Jake]

So how would this affect Zuko, Azula, Iroh and Ozai?

 

[Kaltias]

It won't because their lightning is already a legit lightning. Also staff only

 

[Lina_Shields]

Any forms of electricity fired by a character that has Building level AP (or higher) would mean said electricity = actual cloud-to-ground lightning in terms of speed

Any forms of electricity fired by a character that is under Building level AP would mean that he/she would technically not be able to generate sufficient energy for an actual lightning bolt, thus no justification for using actual lightning speed for those electrical discharges.

• Said speed of those discharges would need to be scaled from the character's current speed (Whatever they have atm), or be directly calculated from a different projectile.

 

[Kaltias]

Yes, but if the lightning was stated and shown to be an actual lightning, despite the fact that the character doesn't reach the necessary AP, it should be considered legit as well.

We shouldn't base it only on the AP

 

[Antoniofer]

I would agree, but only if has an in-universe AP would be superior to Room level+ (either over 10 MV, 1.2 kA and/or 12 GW), it shouldn't be valid if it was scaled (it wouldn't be different that use a previously calculed speed to calculate another speed); the electricity itself should also be DC, since there's no speed registered for AC (besides Lina's calc, and still being only one at the date).

 

[Kaltias]

Why no scaling? Measuring the actual AP of the lightning itself is a nightmare even in real life due to how much of the energy is dispersed. Scaling is needed to pinpoint the amount of energy

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I"m confused what are you even talking right now?

 

[Kaltias]

The thing that Antonio posted above. I don't get why he thinks that the lightning wouldn't be valid if the energy was 8-C via scaling, especially considering that if you measured the damage caused by an actual CTG lightning it wouldn't be all that high into tier 9 due to how much of the energy is dispersed

 

[Antoniofer]

I not agree with looking for all the verses and upgrade anyone to MHS+ for the simple fact that its electric attacks are being scaled from whatever AP calc, there are several verses with includes electric attacks that doesn't have speed nor remotely close to that number; and pretty sure we would be the first ones in though and do such a thing (sites like OBD, spacebattles, r/www, etc). At least we should use an in-universe explanation to do so.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Case by case analysis. The attack has to be electrical and not magical energy.

 

[Kaltias]

What I mean is, go ahead and calc the AP of a real life lightning that happened to strike a human. You'll find 9-C or something like that.

If it's an outlier, that's a different story.

What other sites do doesn't matter.

If you disagree with the idea that 8-C lightning = MHS+ lightning, fine by me.

Also, siding with Matt on the case by case.

 

[Dark649]

I have seen that lightning attacks varies ap in fiction, one of the splitted a tree, another of them destroyed a castle and etc.

 

[Antoniofer]

Case-by-case would be better (like before), but being just electrical shouldn't be enought, for example, projectiles from tesla coil guns shouldn't have that rating cuz they are using AC, in that case use the speed calculed by Lina. Magical or supernatural electricity shouldn't count neither, unless is used to summon lightnings from the sky, in that case is debatable.

@Kaltias, what I disagree is 9-A or superior electricity = MHS+ speed, is there's a lightning (and I say like a real one) has more tension power, then it can be debatable MHS+

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

An elecrticity-based lightning attack which blows up a building would be MHS+.

 

[Shrekkid]

what about if the character is in the air and dodges the return stroke of lightning, the return stroke is like a thrid the speed of light Maine Prepares: Fact Sheet, idk if this sight is wrong, can someone confirm this

 

[RadicalMrR]

I agree with Matt.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

I'm absolutely on case-by-case. If it shows the properties of real lightning it should be classified as real lightning.

I will admit I am a tad bit lost; this thread has turned around several times from the original question.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I still think that electricity-based attacks which display power greater than real life lightning should have MHS+ speed.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I still think that electricity-based attacks which display power greater than real life lightning should have MHS+ speed.

So something like Winston's Tesla Coil Gun would be MHS+?

 

[Antoniofer]

Iirc, Winston's gun shots electric sphere or projectiles instead of a typical lightning, that is already a con; also, Tesla Coil imply that use AC, something with Mach 1.6 of speed if not unquantificable.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Antonio No it doesnt, it shoots an electrical current

 

[Antoniofer]

Oh right, it shots a barrage of electricity; the projectile was from the animated short. The speed for a tesla coil still seems more appropiate.

And still thinking that rating any electric attack that was scaled as 8-C to be MHS+ is a bad idea, there's no supporting theory/law besides "is stronger, then should be faster"; without mentioning pretty sure any author not scientist has thinking in something similar, at least not public.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

This could call for a revision but if people are already okay with this, I guess there's no harm in it.

 

[Antvasima]

So what are the conclusions here? Do we need to change anything in the Lightning Dodging Feats page?

We are definitely not in a good position for any major wiki revisions, so I would much prefer if we use the 8-C and above = average real lightning speed (as long as it fulfills the other requirements) suggestion.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

This is my opinion also. As long as it is proven to be electricity, and has a power greater than real-life lightning, it should be MHS+.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. That would be the simplest solution, but it should preferably be reasonably accurate.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

@Ant

Sound good to me.

 

[Kaltias]

So it was approved or no?

If it was, anyone has a suggestion for the wording?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I think it was, but we still need to write a regulation and put it somewhere.