A MINOR REVISION FOR ILLAH and magi gods

[Delta333]

Actually I have no problem if they have NEP type 2 via lacking of rukh,the only problem for me is rukh being conceptual or not

 

[PrinceofPein]

I answered this

You need to prove that what they embody is nothingness itselff to be NEP2

 

[Lormac_CC]

Yes that's the problem

The scope of what exists and what does not can vary greatly depending on the fictional continuity.

This should answer you.
This is like asking why there are fictional verses where Abstract bleed, they exist without the concept which should be main qualification for NEP 2

 

[Star_King_Veldanava]

You need to prove that what they embody is nothingness itselff to be NEP2

Rukh = The main concept in Magi that forms all Realities and is present throughout the Magi cosmology

Just because it's declared an illusion you're lowering NEP2

You don't accept Exist without Rukh = NEP2, you don't accept that Rukh = Concept

 

[PrinceofPein]

The scope of what exists and what does not can vary greatly depending on the fictional continuity.

This should answer you.
This is like asking why there are fictional verses where Abstract bleed, they exist without the concept which should be main qualification for NEP 2

Maybe abstract bleed deserves a downgrade, but based on magi the verse I know about, that us not NEP2, nothing even suggest it as they are not
Either
1. Existing and non-existent at the same time
Or
2. Embody the concept if nothingness

Rukh = The main concept in Magi that forms all Realities and is present throughout the Magi cosmology

Just because it's declared an illusion you're lowering NEP2

You don't accept Exist without Rukh = NEP2, you don't accept that Rukh = Concept

Yeah nice appeal to motive

Anyway existing without Rukh =\= NEP2

As they don't embody nothingness and yes they are still existing simply as illsuions

 

[Orioreeem]

This is like asking why there are fictional verses where Abstract bleed

What is the verse in which abstract bleed?

 

[Lormac_CC]

Maybe abstract bleed deserves a downgrade, but based on magi the verse I know about, that us not NEP2, nothing even suggest it as they are not
Either
1. Existing and non-existent at the same time
Or
2. Embody the concept if nothingness

I gave you a quote from NEP page that should address that.

1. They are existing even without concept. Many NEP 2 I have seen is existence even without body, soul, concept. I don't know why you believe they don't qualify

 

[Lormac_CC]

What is the verse in which abstract bleed?

God of war

 

[Delta333]

What is the verse in which abstract bleed?

Many

 

[PrinceofPein]

I gave you a quote from NEP page that should address that.

1. They are existing even without concept. Many NEP 2 I have seen is existence even without body, soul, concept. I don't know why you believe they don't qualify

Again existing without a concept is NEP1, as that state is 0
Nep2 is neither 1 or 0. Just pure nothingness.

They don't qualify

 

[Lormac_CC]

Again existing without a concept is NEP1, as that state is 0
Nep2 is neither 1 or 0. Just pure nothingness.

They don't qualify

Hell

The lack of absolutely everything to a state of nonexistence at a conceptual level.
From NEP 2 page

 

[Delta333]

Again existing without a concept is NEP1

You need to downgrade numerous verses then

 

[PrinceofPein]

Hell

The lack of absolutely everything to a state of nonexistence at a conceptual level.
From NEP 2 page

Why don't you complete it?
And again
Non existence at conceptual level =\= existing without concept.
They may look alike but they are fundamentally different

You said rukh = concept
They existed without Rukh in illah real as illusions, that is not NEP2 and never will be
In fact the entire NEP is restricted only to illah realm and not outside it, and I don't see a reason why it is on their profiles or let me rephrase it should be stated on their profiles that it is only in illah realm

You need to downgrade numerous verses then

Really don't care about other verse or the context behind it but not magi

 

[Lormac_CC]

Why don't you complete it?
And again
Non existence at conceptual level =\= existing without concept.
They may look alike but they are fundamentally different

You said rukh = concept
They existed without Rukh in illah real as illusions, that is not NEP2 and never will be
In fact the entire NEP is restricted only to illah realm and not outside it, and I don't see a reason why it is on their profiles or let me rephrase it should be stated on their profiles that it is only in illah realm

Existing without concept type 2 won't grant NEP 2 but exist without concept type 1 which is like the most basic aspect of existence is NEP2

I never said NEP was restricted to only inside llah. llah existed even without rukh

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Lack a concept and described as nonexistent = NEP 2

 

[PrinceofPein]

Lack a concept and described as nonexistent = NEP 2

They were not described as both.

Existing without concept type 2 won't grant NEP 2 but exist without concept type 1 which is like the most basic aspect of existence is NEP2

So the gods are type 1 concept?

 

[Lormac_CC]

They were not described as both

They were describe as both

So the gods are type 1 concept?

Yes

 

[PrinceofPein]

They were describe as both

Scans?

Yes

Scans?

 

[Lormac_CC]

Scans?

You have already seen scans. They are basically phantoms and lack concept

Scans?

You have seen to. You can check any god profile

 

[PrinceofPein]

You have already seen scans. They are basically phantoms and lack concept

No lack of rukh and illusions that's just still NEP1

You have seen to. You can check any god profile

Gods can interact with type 1 concept =\= gods are type 1 concept

What concept does sinbad represent?
Or David? Or Solomon?

 

[Lormac_CC]

No lack of rukh and illusions that's just still NEP1

Then what is NEP 2, you must be a void or something like that to fit.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Then what is NEP 2, you must be a void or something like that to fit.

Void, nothingness predates existence as while existing as nothing e.t.c.

 

[Lormac_CC]

So the gods are type 1 concept?

My bad, I thought you said is rukh type 1 concept

 

[Lormac_CC]

Void, nothingness predates existence as while existing as nothing e.t.c.

This was from a mod who is quite knowledgeable on NEP2.


Such entities are typically presented as primordial voids or pure emptiness

This is not evidence or a requirement for Type 2 Nonexistent Physiology, all its saying is that beings who have Type 2 Nonexistent Physiology normally have such attributes in addition to the requirements of Type 2 Nonexistent Physiology (Something I find questionable considering the amount of characters with Type 2 Nonexistent Physiology who don't have such attributes)

 

[Lormac_CC]

So yeah character with NEP2 mustn't be voids

 

[PrinceofPein]

My bad, I thought you said is rukh type 1 concept

Of course rukh is a type 1 concept
Now the only way the concept of a thing works is of the gods are the type 1 concept themselves.
Honestly most of magi hax are baseline it is like giving type 1 concept to any verse that uses magic and can manipulate magic cause magic is the source of existence or something.

But you get the gist, they themselves lacking the type 1 concept does not mean they become NEP2, and the NEP stuff is restricted to Illah realm alone as they don't have any feat of existing without rukh outside that

This was from a mod who is quite knowledgeable on NEP2.


Such entities are typically presented as primordial voids or pure emptiness

This is not evidence or a requirement for Type 2 Nonexistent Physiology, all its saying is that beings who have Type 2 Nonexistent Physiology normally have such attributes in addition to the requirements of Type 2 Nonexistent Physiology (Something I find questionable considering the amount of characters with Type 2 Nonexistent Physiology who don't have such attributes)

Yes normally have such attributes
Which attribute do those gods have to qualify for nep2?

 

[Lormac_CC]

But you get the gist, they themselves lacking the type 1 concept does not mean they become NEP2, and the NEP stuff is restricted to Illah realm alone as they don't have any feat of existing without rukh outside that

So the NEP stuff restricted to llah realm, is it NEP 1 or NEP 2

 

[Lormac_CC]

Honestly most of magi hax are baseline it is like giving type 1 concept to any verse that uses magic and can manipulate magic

Honestly, I wouldn't say that, but well who knows. Rukh is quite complex

 

[Dereck03]

Existing without concept type 2 won't grant NEP 2 but exist without concept type 1 which is like the most basic aspect of existence is NEP2

Wtf is this. We do not classify NEP2 by types of concepts.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Wtf is this. We do not classify NEP2 by types of concepts.

What I was trying to say is that the characters are non-existent on a conceptual level

 

[Dereck03]

What I was trying to say is that the characters are non-existent on a conceptual level

You said that existing without concept type 2 don't grant NEP2, which is incorrect, the best example for this is Graham, he exists without his source (type 2 concept) and he's NEP2, also many other characters who exists without type 2 and are NEP2

 

[Lormac_CC]

You said that existing without concept type 2 don't grant NEP2, which is incorrect, the best example for this is Graham, he exists without his source (type 2 concept) and he's NEP2, also many other characters who exists without type 2 and are NEP2

Alright my bad

 

[Dereck03]

I'm not knowledgeable in magi but if the rukh is the primordial concept of existence in the verse, and some characters can exist without it/lack then they can have NEP2 or simply prove that before the Rukh exist there is only nothingness.

 

[Lormac_CC]

I'm not knowledgeable in magi but if the rukh is the primordial concept of existence in the verse, and some characters can exist without it/lack then they can have NEP2 or simply prove that before the Rukh exist there is only nothingness.

Pain _.. knows this things. His problem is that they exist as phantom/illusion while the lack the concept

 

[Dereck03]

Again existing without a concept is NEP1, as that state is 0

Hell this is wrong, NEP1 is lacking of any conventional existence, concept is beyond that as the primordial basis of the existence. NEP2 Is the lack of everything includes the primordial concept of existence. They are not only shown as voids or nothingness/empitness, but also as entities that oppose existence by being able to "exist" without the concept of existence, basically existing in non-existence.

 

[Dereck03]

Well, I know a lot about non existence stuffs, but if you guys wanna have an expert opinion about this then call @Elizhaa

 

[Star_King_Veldanava]

I don't know why you are so loud to downgrade NEP2 Magi

Rukh = The most basic main concept in the Magi Verse (Shapes All Reality) which means
Existence without Rukh = Nothingness (Conceptless)
I think Illusions/Phantoms are just metaphors, called Illusions/Phantom because basically they are just non-existence, the main point is without Rukh which is really Nothingness (Conceptless)

 

[PrinceofPein]

So the NEP stuff restricted to llah realm, is it NEP 1 or NEP 2

Anyone whether type 1 or 2, it is would be in illah realm

Hell this is wrong, NEP1 is lacking of any conventional existence, concept is beyond that as the primordial basis of the existence. NEP2 Is the lack of everything includes the primordial concept of existence.

I am not talking about other verses I am talking about magi
They had bodies that was called an illusion like directly stated to be an illusion while lacking rukh.

They are not only shown as voids or nothingness/empitness, but also as entities that oppose existence by being able to "exist" without the concept of existence, basically existing in non-existence.

I've said all these and it did not fit with the context of magi gods.
Basically the only reason why they could exist without rukh in their body and their body was an illusion was because that is the working of illah realm.and not their own doing.

It is like giving you the ability to breath under water cause you used a scuba suit to dive.


Not exactly the best example but I can't think of something else

 

[Dereck03]

Anyone whether type 1 or 2, it is would be in illah realm

I am not talking about other verses I am talking about magi
They had bodies that was called an illusion like directly stated to be an illusion while lacking rukh.

I've said all these and it did not fit with the context of magi gods.
Basically the only reason why they could exist without rukh in their body and their body was an illusion was because that is the working of illah realm.and not their own doing.

It is like giving you the ability to breath under water cause you used a scuba suit to dive.


Not exactly the best example but I can't think of something else

I'm not refuting anything related to magi verse, you said that Lacking concept = NEP1 which is absolutely wrong

 

[PrinceofPein]

I'm not refuting anything related to magi verse, you said that Lacking concept = NEP1 which is absolutely wrong

Oh okay