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A few problems with IDW Discord

Eficiente

Eficiente

He/Him
VS Battles
Thread Moderator
15,441
5,031
Why does he have the same abilities as canon Discord?

And I will once again point out how his type 8 Immortality is wrong. The reasons are here, in a thread the opposition required to close while ignoring the matter.
 
As far as I know, the comics indeed make many direct references to the show. The show however doesn't make any references to the comics.

Off the top of my head, Rarity mentioned the events of Babs Seed in one of her comics
 
Can somebody summarise why type 8 immortality should be removed?
 
It is never directly stated that destroying all who desire order is required to kill Discord, all that is stated is that he exists in the hearts of all who desire order. That only really confirms that he has Nigh-Omnipresence, and Type 8 is mostly an assumption.
 
I don't see why this needs to be outright stated when it's implied. I'll say it again: Each Accord manifested on ponies of their own free will. So if they can manifest on their own, what stops them from deciding to appear from someone else if he dies? One thing stopping them is that was suggested was that killing the original will kill the rest....which has nothing supporting or suggesting it. It is an irrelevant point to bring up unless there is evidence for it.
 
Also I'm in the process of making a CRT for Discord myself concerning this topic and a bit more, so I might post it here when I'm done.
 
Yeah, there's really no reason to assume Discord's Nigh-Omnipresence also grants him Type 8 unless there's evidence. It's possible, but there's nothing suggesting it.
 
That still doesn't address my points that the Accords can manifest on ponies on their own. If they hadn't manifested then I might be inclined to agree, but the fact is they did.
 
Yeah, that's why he has Nigh-Omnipresence, but it doesn't prove Type 8. You'd need a scene where it is shown or stated that Discord cannot be killed due to it to prove Type 8.
 
Wasn't it agreed in the previous thread on Discord that type 8 can be used to ressurect instead of being unkillable though?
 
It was closed before the discussion ended, that's why this thread we are in right now exists. And you'd also need to show proof of resurrection with a scene where it is shown or stated that Discord can return to life after being killed with this ability.
 
The IDW comics have a one-sided canonical connection to the main cartoons; the cartoons are canon to the comics, but the comics are a not canon to the cartoons. So the abilities from the cartoons are fine.
 
No, I'm pretty sure sure we agreed with Eficiente that type 8 can be used as ressurection. What we got into an argument about was whether or not Accord could ressurect or replace himself with an Accord from another pony, since they can manifest of their own free will. To which I was told won't work since killing the original kills the rest.
 
Ok. The Accord's within each pony was shown to manifest themselves their own will weren't they? So if they can manifest if their own will unaided by the original Accord. Then why can't one pop out of another pony if he dies? What stops that from happening?
 
The fact that we can't simply assume that an ability works in a way that was never shown in canon stops that from happening. If the other Accords were never shown to survive after the main Accord is killed, there's no reason to assume they would.
 
Paulo.junior.969 said:
The fact that we can't simply assume that an ability works in a way that was never shown in canon stops that from happening. If the other Accords were never shown to survive after the main Accord is killed, there's no reason to assume they would.
Click to expand...
Then prove the other Accords will die if the original is killed. The fact that they manifested on their own implies a degree of independance from him.
 
It is not up to me to prove Discord doesn't have Type 8 Immortality, it is up to you to prove he has. The burden of proof is always on the positive claim, and the person who makes the claim.
 
Paulo.junior.969 said:
It is not up to me to prove Discord doesn't have Type 8 Immortality, it is up to you to prove he has. The burden of proof is always on the positive claim, and the person who makes the claim.
Click to expand...
I gave my evidence for it and explained to the best of my ability why it would be possible. Your responce was that killing the original kills the rest. I am making a positive claim true, but the statement: "Killing the original kills the rest" is also a positve claim.
 
A positive claim would be if I said "the other Accords would die if the original one is killed", but that's not what I said, what I said was "there's no reason to assume they wouldn't die", as in, it is possible that they wouldn't die, but there's no evidence for it, so it's not really a positive claim, it's just saying that the evidence you've provided doesn't sufice, and giving him Type 8 due to it would require an unfounded assumption.

Basically, I'm not making any postive claim, I'm just saying the evidence you've given isn't direct enough, and asking you to provide more evidence. Never at any point did I say Type 8 is impossible, I'm just saying you need more evidence.
 
The entire idea of "there's no reason to assume they wouldn't die" is completely worthless when you realize that those Accord's can only exist as long as the person they exist in desires order. Their existence doesn't depend on Accord, their existence depends on people wanting order.
 
It is never said that they will always exist as long as the person desires order, it is just stated that they are inside the hearts of those who desire order, as in, they are currently there, but nothing says that this prevents them from being destroyed. That only really proves Nigh-Omnipresence.
 
And how are they supposed to live inside someone if that someone doesn't want order? I never said the other Accords would never die or always exist as long as order is wanted. You said: "If the other Accords were never shown to survive after the main Accord is killed, there's no reason to assume they would"

Your statement directly relies on Accord being the source of their existence when the source of their existence is people wanting order.

I never said those Accords will never die or always exist as long as people want order. I said: "Their existence doesn't depend on Accord, their existence depends on people wanting order." In other words, what causes them to exist is the desire for order. They may not be indestructible because of it, but they can only exist to begin with because people want order. To put things as best I can: think of "the desire of order in living creatures" as a battery that fuels each Accord. They can still die, but Accord himself has nothing to do with sustaining/powering their existence. That would be the desire for order, because otherwise, they wouldn't exist to begin with. And so killing him, should not affect the others.
 
Paulo.junior.969 said:
"Would never die as long as order is wanted" is the definition of Type 8 ("The character cannot die as long as a certain being, object, or even concept exists"). If that's not what you're arguing for, you're not really even arguing for Type 8.
Click to expand...
Yet again, type 8 can be used for Resurrection, and I just gave an in depth explanation why the Accords living inside someone won't die just because the original dies.

Although, by this point I realize I've been arguing for type 4 or 6 instead of type 8. So I guess I'll stop arguing for it. I'll still argue for type 4 or 6 though.
 
So why are you saying he has Type 8? Type 8 would be if he couldn't die because of order being wanted, which there's no evidence for. If anything, you're describing Type 4 or Type 6.
 
Paulo.junior.969 said:
So why are you saying he has Type 8? Type 8 would be if he couldn't die because of order being wanted, which there's no evidence for.
Click to expand...
It was a misunderstanding of mine. The method for how Accord could "potentially" resurrect had me associating his resurrection with type 8, especially since type 8 can apparently be used to resurrect.

If anything, you're describing Type 4 or Type 6.
Which is why I acknowledged this fact in my comment.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
The IDW comics have a one-sided canonical connection to the main cartoons; the cartoons are canon to the comics, but the comics are a not canon to the cartoons. So the abilities from the cartoons are fine.
Click to expand...
This is correct, yes.
 
My main problem is the type 8 Immortality, as said before I'm good with the abilities.

I would appreciate if someone important could give its opinion about the matter, otherwise redundancy is gonna take over this thread like it happened in the other one the opposition required to prematurely close, where the type 8 was originally brought.
 
Eficiente said:
My main problem is the type 8 Immortality, as said before I'm good with the abilities.

I would appreciate if someone important could give its opinion about the matter, otherwise redundancy is gonna take over this thread like it happened in the other one the opposition required to prematurely close, where the type 8 was originally brought.
Click to expand...
Which abilities curiously?
Not that it matters. I'm against type 8 immortality for existing in everyone now.
 
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