A CRT regarding Tensei Slime Slime Datta Ken

[Elizhaa]

Honestly, these points should have been here earlier. Thanks to all who gave inputs on the in the verse discussion threads and gave inputs directly on the evidence; this thread wouldn't possible with you all

Veldora and Beretta's intelligence upgrade​

Spoiler

Evidence

Genius intelligence scaling from Ramiris (Web Novel). This evidence would qualify WN Veldora and Beretta to be genius and scaling from Ramiris's intelligence. Just saying, there is no real evidence that Veldora and Beretta got much many time smarter in the post-time-skip since Beretta mostly focused on taking care of Ramiris and Veldora was mostly focused on training and his leisure time; so, I think their intelligence would be the same for all their key. Making advanced technology from scraps: “ But on the other hand, he had witnessed Beretta’s ability to repair things, and so there was a part of him that hoped . “If I’m not wrong, there is an old Empire testing site up ahead. It’s currently a junkyard for old weapons…”'' „ ~ Chapter 371 “ They had already finished the vehicles . Five large transport buses that could carry two hundred passengers each. The vehicles had been completed quietly and were now parked in a line . They had gathered parts from destroyed tanks and reused them . The basic structure had already gone through ‘Appraisal’ and it was determined that they would run just fine without the need for a test drive . Even in this world, their skills were very good . They removed the 200mm rail guns, which were the main weapons, and improved the stability and speed of the vehicles . Thanks to that, in spite of the legs being like a caterpillar, its maximum speed now exceeded 100km/h . They had also considered comfort, and space expansion had been used to make the seats more spacious . There was even an area where you could lie down . As for the distance that they could travel… After all, they were equipped with thermonuclear fusion engines, as long as the body of the vehicle did not break, it could run nearly forever . They would no longer have to walk around on foot . Travel would be much easier . As it was a caterpillar, bad road conditions did not matter, and they were sure that they could reach their destination on the next day '' „ ~ Chapter 372 “ So saying, Beretta began to draw on the ground while explaining . It was not a wearable Powered Suit, but a Battle Body that could be considered a second body . He also had ideas for improved Cyber Bodies and new Powered Suits . The Powered Suit would be equipped with converted high power firearms that would usually only work in a Battle Body . And while none were able to shoot beams from their entire body, most of Ramiris’s demands had been fulfilled . “Hmm!?” “Very impressive, Beretta . This is a design that contains all my hopes and dreams!” The two of them forgot that they had been arguing, and they stared hard at the designs on the ground . “I see . This new Battle Body houses a nuclear fusion reactor in its heart from the beginning . Indeed, if I were to use ‘Space Manipulation,’ the space expansion technology could be much improved . It could help with power shortages as well . And…” “Yes! Yes! The beam weapons are on the outside! Now we can have lots of them and they can be exchanged depending on the need . This is amazing, Beretta!” “I am not worthy of such high praise . ” After that, they talked about whether they could not make even more interesting weapons with the remaining parts . The debate grew increasingly more enthusiastic, and their mischievous side took hold, resulting in the most shocking modifications being made . ------------------------------- When Zaza and the others returned from their patrol in the morning, they saw a line of super weapons with fearsome power. '' „ ~ Chapter 373 Performing brain surgery: “ As Karman had said, there was no point in agonizing over what Veldora and the others said . “Alright, I’ll do it . I, I don’t want to lose any more of my comrades . ” He said, after finally making up his mind . Karma’s operation finished in less than an hour, and Zaza was operated on next . As they only needed to transfer the brain inside the capsule and adjust it, it was child’s play for Ramiris and Bereta to perform . And so Zaza’s operation was finished, and Karman’s men also underwent modifications . And like that, Zaza, Karman, and his men gained a new power to fight . „ ~ Chapter 373

Beretta's Technology Manipulation​

Spoiler

Evidence

“ That had been a feature of the Beam Barrier, which the Powered Suits had been equipped with… And then Karman realized it . Beretta had been disassembling the Powered Suits with his tentacles . “You were…incorporating it…? —Yes . He had been disassembling the Powered Suits and analyzing their features . And then he had incorporated it as his own power, allowing for him to use all of those abilities . Not only that, but they had been altered to be more efficient and powerful . The new function of The Ultimate Gift, ‘Deus Ex Machina,’ ‘Machine Domination’…'' „ ~ Chapter 346 This ability should be for an additional afterstory key.

Rimuru's and others' Regeneration upgrade​

Spoiler

Evidence

For Web Novel: With GLFR's help, I found out that Melt Slash in the raws is a combination of Sword technique and Hinata's disintegration, in the Web Novel; Disintegration shared the same kanji. There are more contexts here on Melt Slash; it was mostly before I found out it specifically being a combination of Sword technique and Hinata's disintegration. Hinata's disintegration is accepted as Existence Erasure as it describes as the erasure of the target. In any case, this evidence gives a solid implication that Rimuru would have Mid-Godly regeneration since Raphael stated he could have completely regenerated from it like what happened in the LN version The translation also is accurate on regeneration. So, this evidence for Mid-Godly. I think arguments for High-Godly regeneration can be made. High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after erasure from all aspects of existence, such as from history, narrative/plot, or conceptual/information destruction The is sky spirit/concept look to embody information in all of existence from what has space to souls (souls are explained to be lump of information and skills; skills are made of information which Melt Slash could erase Rimuru's Gluttony Beelzebub); Rimuru could regenerate back from Melt Slash with Disintegration property that is stated to leave nothing behind. Also, genetic information has information even on the skills and memories of individuals: “ “It’s quite simple, General Kristoph. I am not Alvin. I am an artificial lifeform made by my father, Fudora–a Bionoid. However, I will absorb the genetic information in this human called Alvin, as well as the biocomputer equipped in this body. That includes his personal memories and skills. You might say that I am Alvin reborn.” „ ~ Chapter 362 Venom's regenerator skill allows him to come back from complete erasure quickly and demons can do so over time; giving the context where information is an aspect of existence, the regeneration from existence erasure should be High-Godly from coming back information erasure. If accepted all the regeneration at Mid-Godly would be High-Godly and Rimuru's Mid-Godly regeneration negation would be to High-Godly. For the LN: All forms of matter ranging from atoms to even esoteric matter like spirit particle that makes intangible beings like spirits. Skills are also made up of information particles. This case is important because abilities like Melt Slash and disintegration destroy all leaving nothing behind; Melt Slash can affect information as it could destroy Rimuru's Ultimate Skills. Characters like Rimuru can regenerate from such Erasure. So, their regeneration would be updated to High Godly from coming from information Erasure. Diablo should have it also because Guy thinks he could quickly revive if destroyed; this is important because destroy someone completely also includes his or her information. Yuuki should have the regeneration negation updated to High-Godly if accepted since he could nullify Rimuru's regeneration which is explained on his page. <<Negative. Based on current circumstances, it is impossible. Insufficient access to interfere with the smallest physical unit, ‘information particles’.>> Raphael said it could unlock ‘Infinite Prison’. However, it did not have the authority to interfere with the information locked inside there. So that was a dead end. Veldora managed to revive himself, but it seemed that he was a special case. “I get it! Then I’ll transfer the authority to you. The other ‘Chloe’ agreed too. We will have Rimuru do as you wish!” —Eh? As I worried about what to do, Chronoa suddenly made an unexpected proposal. An ‘information particle’ was a substance smaller than even ‘spirit particles’, and was close to having no mass at all. All matter in the world had to contain ‘information particles’. Even though they only existed in my ‘Stomach’ and Chronoa’s ‘Infinite Prison’, these ‘information particles’ could be observed. Raphael seemed to have the ability to manipulate information particles to either combine or abolish Skills.|Volume 11 Chapter 4 Also, most demons don't have profiles but many should soon; this is evidence that they would have Regenerationat Low-Goldy at the lowest. “ As expected from demons; so long as their ‘soul’ remained intact, they would be perfectly fine even if their bodies were destroyed. It might have been a different story if Granbell’s target was Venom, but that was not a question I had time for. „ ~ Volume 11 Chapter 4

Rimuru's empowerment from prayers​

The evidence is also straightforward; it is for his Demon Slime's key:

Spoiler

Evidence

“ When manipulating ‘Spirit Particles’, you needed to listen to the individual wish of the prayer to execute them accordingly—with such a complex action, no matter how advanced my processing power was, I wouldn’t be able to do it. That’s why I turned to a different method and had different individuals conduct the calculation. As the number of people who prayed—my believers—increased, my mana rose in kind. In other words, I could improve my “godliness”. In addition, because I was connected to my believers, it also served as a secret technique. I could use the minds of my own believers to expand my processing power. This would also allow me to lend them mana and processing power. „ ~ Volume 10 Chapter 2

Rimuru's madness manipulation and mind control (Light Novel)​

This evidence is straightforward; it is for his Demon Slime's key:

Spoiler

Evidence

“ I did not use my ‘Demon Lord Haki’, since if I used it on humans, the luckier ones would only fall in a state of fear, but for the unlucky, they would probably go mad, or even die in pain like a maniac. That's why I won’t use it in a place like this. And of course, I won’t brainwash them either. It will ruin any prospect of us befriending humans. I don’t want to deal with boring puppet-like companions who would only say YES. „ ~ Volume 10 Chapter 3

Unconventional power modification resistance for Rimuru( Web Novel)​

Spoiler

Evidence
Unconventional Resistance to Power Modification (Can get a new copy of skill if they are destroyed)

Resistance to sealing and others for Rimuru's key (Web Novel)​

Spoiler

Evidence

Rimuru should get resistance to Sealing, from his second key; he completely analyzes Infinite Prison. Rimuru's analysis work with reactive evolution as shown multiple where after he analyzed something he can negate the effect of what affected or gain resistance; the evidence is on Rimru's profile. I think there are enough proofs for these points. I think Rimuru should get resistance to all analyzed skills at the End of the Series for the same reasons, as well. Here are the evidence below: Reactive Evolution (Can get resistance to what he analyzed as he did here where after absorbing Ifrit, he gained Fire Attack Resistance and here with poison. With proper context from Great Sage and his understanding, he can acquire skills. His skills can evolve in battle as it did against Orc Disaster Gerudo, with the support of Great Sage. He gained resistance to the Holy Barrier effect because his magic was not nullified despited the first barrier doing so.), Improved Reactive Evolution (After Rimuru's ascension to Demon Lord and gained the skill Raphael, he can adapt and evolve to a higher degree such as acquiring "Future Attack Prediction" in the middle of battle after being backed into the corner in his fight with Hinata where Hinata went from forcing desperation to Rimuru to having a hard time dealing with him and covering the greatest "elemental weakness" of a monster by analyzing Melt Slash, making any Covenant's barrier King Uriel impervious to Spirit Particle attacks and by extension to most Holy-magic attacks that are usually very effective against monsters and are basically the magical energy. He made countermeasures to nullified anti-barrier, guard for soul and Magic Circuit destruction attacks from Sandalphon the Executioner.)

Corruption Type 3 for monsters and Corruption resistances​

Spoiler

Evidence

Web novel: Magic can corrupt others to monster from sources like monster's energy. Chapter 124 - Dagruel mutated into a demon lord after he was fed magic. Magic in Tensei has the "dark"/"demonic" attribute so it's not really normal magic. there is a spell in the WN it is largely implied humans can turn into monsters and soul reap have to used to prevent it. Also, from a byproduct of a battle; Rimuru's magical energy from an attack in the ocean cause many huge sea creatures to evolved into larger terrifying sea monsters. “ That battle had affected the surrounding topology, and caused great change to the ecosystem. A ‘calamity’ which was later named ‘The Scorching Tempest’ had occurred. No matter the conclusion, it was definitely a battle that surpassed human understanding. The only silver lining was that the it had taken place over the ocean. The heat had caused the seawater to evaporate, which formed clouds that brought forth heavy rain to the surrounding areas, but there was no major impact on land. If it had been over land, or worse, in close vicinity of a country, the scale of damage would have been catastrophic. But, there definitely was some damage. The marine life which inhibited that ocean region had been significantly affected, and as a result, the already huge sea creatures ended up evolving into even bigger, more terrifying sea monsters. With the creation of these sea monsters, this ocean region had become an untraversable region. As a result, the sea route was closed off, and even the airspace above that ocean region was deemed unsafe. This was the reality of the great damage that ‘The Scorching Tempest’ had brought about. Among the central islands of the ‘Continent of Eternal Ice’, was an area of sea that lay in permafrost. The surrounding skies were controlled by aerial demons that had become more savage due to being bathed Demon Lord Guy Crimson’s magic. Because of that, and because one of the sea routes had ended up being closed off because of the ‘calamity’, there was a need to accelerate the establishment of a railway network and of Transit Gates for travel over the main land. As this was part of Demon Lord Rimuru’s motives, it was debated whether the events were part of the Demon Lord’s strategy; Whether he wanted to gain total control of the land transport routes. (TN: it was stated that Rimuru intended to spread his rail network in an older chapter) It was a fact that the transport network prepared by the Demon Lord contributed to the advance of human technology. But was the ‘calamity’ purposefully caused by the Demon Lord? This would become a hot topic of debate for historians of the future. But that this calamity was simply an amusing twist of fate; no historian could have predicted this culmination of events. The phrase “reality is often stranger than fiction”, couldn’t have suited these string of events better. Putting the debate aside, the cause of this ‘calamity’ being a battle among ‘True Dragons’ would be made an undeniable fact by future historians. „ ~ Chapter 174 Ln: From: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...ncepts_on_Tensei_Slime_Shitara_Datta_Ken_(LN) Even Spirits are susceptible to Magicules, since coming into contact with Magicules might corrupt them and turn them into half-monsters, half-spirits. Even the Queen of Spirits is no exception to that. “ By the way, fairies still existed as their own species. They were not even rare, but in fact a very common type of monster. They were about the same size as Ramiris and enjoyed pranks. They evolved from lesser spirits due to the influence of magicules. While they did possess intelligence, they were limited to one generation of descendants and had very short lifespans. While they were all fairies, these ones couldn’t rival those evolved (materialized) from greater spirits, so they were categorized as two different types of monsters. Some people often mixed Ramiris up with this type of fairy, but in reality, they were not the same creature. She fell from the high-ranked species of Spirit Queen, which was likely far more advanced than the ancestors of elves and dwarves. Ramiris apparently reincarnated a lot, so I probably couldn’t get an answer even if I asked her… Ah, I went on a tangent. „ ~ LN Volume 8 Also: “ If we threw a snake into the capsule, the dense magicule concentration would poison it to death. Regardless, its flesh would combine with the magiwater and be rebuilt as a tempest serpent. And as a result, an A- ranked monster would be created. Now, you probably have some idea of just how incredible the growth capsule was. It was evident that monsters produced from the growth capsule were several times stronger than their original counterparts. The reason these monsters were so strong was likely due to the fact that they were born in a stable, lab-controlled environment filled with magicules. Despite this, sometimes an individual’s body would break down upon birth and quickly die. Whether these monsters could survive was all down to luck. „ ~ Volume 11 Chapter 2 I think if corruption type 3 is accepted then resistances should be present to the profiles. Some resistance would go under Ultimate skills resistance for characters in the Web Novel since Ultimate skills users who resist the effect of such an ability. All characters would have resistances since monsters have high resistance to this form of magic energy which causes corruption and the notable humans in the verse have resistance to magic.

Immortality Type 6 for Rimuru, Veldora, Souei​

Spoiler

Evidence
Parallel Existence lets Veldora move his consciousness to his clones and easily taking over their body; Parallel Existence is essentially a better version of cloning.
Rimuru via his cloning skill can switch his consciousness with his clone to take over their body; Souei also has the same cloning skill so he should have the ability for his first key and have parallel existence in his last key.

Regeneration Low-High and Regeneration Negation​

Spoiler

Evidence

Chapter 67 　圧倒的に不利な状況になった時点で危険を察知し、分身を作成し逃げ出していたのである。
　魔素で作るとバレやすいし動きが鈍くなる為に、本体のスライム部分を逃がしていたのだ。
　活動出来る最低体積のみを逃がしたお陰で、戦闘にはほぼ影響無かったのだが、逃げる方は大変だった。
　もし、ヒナタのヤツが分身の可能性とかまで考えて行動してきたら終わってたけど……

The original wording is largely accurate but omitted the word volume. Other translations like google translate and romajidesu keep the word volume; the volume kanji is present: 体積.
Rimuru's body is made slime and he later grows it back; the word volume support that that slime is a liquid as a non- Newtonian fluid: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/slime-is-it-a-solid-liquid-or-both/
I had translation checked here and the context slime being a liquid exists.

Likewise, according to the regeneration definition of Low-High, Rimuru would get it since he regenerated from a non-solid, given the context. There are characters like Orc Disaster Geld and Shion who have the same regeneration.
Rimuru would get regeneration negation up to Low-High since he negated Orc Disaster Geld's.

Conceptual Manipulation Removal (Light novel)​

Spoiler

Conceptual Manipulation Removal (Light novel)

From what I think, Conceptual Manipulation sounds like a figure of speech here. Thematically, it makes less sense for him to learn conceptual manipulation after just mastering magic and the case here seems to suggest this just description of his mastery of magic, from Occam's Razor. This feat look like just magic aura, not conceptual manipulation The "conceptual" word looks like a buzzword so it doesn't seem enough, to me; Thematically, it makes less sense for him to learn conceptual manipulation after just mastering magic and the case here seems to suggest this just description of his mastery of magic, from Occam's Razor. The form of conceptualization is more likely referring to coming up with an idea and putting to practical use on its basic principles not really the manipulation of the form of a concept. In my view, the feat is magic. Magic in the verse is basically described as reality warping since it changes physical laws from the manipulation of magic. The only reason why Magic is not added as reality warping is that Magic is defined as a type of reality-warping already. Since I wanted to be fair and sure, I asked others like Ultima and DontTalkDT; they look to agree with my views.

Other things​

Spoiler

Additions

Some things to be added from volume 10 LN: Hinata should get Resistance to Heat Manipulation, Gravity Manipulation, and Electricity Manipulation. “ By the way, on the terrain effect levels, there are not only earthquakes, there is also heavy gravity! It’s been cranked up to five times the normal strength; you’re supposed to have a hard time moving around.” Lightning strikes from above, icy winds that freeze you to the bone, burning heat that scorches your skin—none of this left a mark on Hinata „ ~ Volume 10 Chapter 2 Hinata should also get Stealth Mastery and Resurrection Resurrection (described here) Stealth Mastery: Can sneak up on Rimuru Tempest's who Extrasensory Perception and Enhanced Senses Shuna should get Power Mimicry, Resurrection, Martial Arts, and Existence Erasure Power Mimicry (via Analyst) Resurrection (described here) Martial Arts (explained here) Existence Erasure (via Disintegration; Disintegration is already accepted as Existence Erasure on Sakaguchi Hinata (Light Novel)'s profile). Rimuru, Diablo, and Shion's resistance to Death Manipulation is above baseline since they can resist Mariabell's death hax while Benimaru and others can't despite them already having death resistance. Glenda should have Analytical Prediction, and Spatial Manipulation (Via her unique skill Sniper). Glenda's Weapon Creation Do you mean the exploding ball?” “Yes, that’s it. It doesn’t seem like magic. I assumed that it was a weapon from another world.” <<Answer. It is likely that the individual ‘Glenda’ used mana to craft it. It may be slightly different, but with Skills such as ‘Weapon Specification’, one can construct weapons from memory.>> W-weapon specification? So not only does she have sniper skills, she even had a trump card like that? By the way, if it was the authentic ‘Weapon Specification’, she would’ve been able to reconstruct weapons from her memory perfectly. Yet what Glenda had recreated didn’t seem delicate enough and could only act as a pale imitation. Nonetheless, it still posed a threat. “I thought so as well. Even though I’ve not seen the real thing, it was just like how it is described in the movie. In other words, Glenda could be an ‘Otherworlder’.” “I think that may be the case, because she seems to have used her memory to recreate these weapons.”| Volume 10 Adalman (Light Novel) need Existence Erasure also via Disintegration. Disintegration is already accepted as Existence Erasure on Clayman (Light Novel) Clayman (Light Novel) should get Information Analysis with Pupperter. Adalman (Light Novel) would get Martial Arts (Explained here) Things to add from Volume 11: Existence Erasure for Diablo. Via Disintegration; Disintegration is already accepted as Existence Erasure on Sakaguchi Hinata (Light Novel)'s profile. Telepathy for Ruminas. She can also split a person into being 2 separate individuals. Another key for Ifrit as Charys. As Charys, Ifrit is comparable to High 7-A+ characters like Frey and Karion. Ranga's precognition for his recent key (Volume 11 Chapter 5) Ruminas Valentine (Light Novel)'s Life Manipulation and Death Manipulation (via Ultimate Skill Lustful King Asmodeus) Volume 11 Chapter 3- Sleep requirement for Diablo (Self-Sustenance(Type 3)) Diablo didn’t need any sleep either. And while Shion still required some rest, she only needed three hours each time. She could also go without sleep for more than seven days straight. Benimaru and Souei were the same, which was perhaps a sign that monsters had stronger adaptability to different environments. New things: Conceptual Destruction there in the Hinata's Light Novel profile should be information erasure for destroying a Rimuru's Ultimate Skill; there is no concrete evidence that destroying an Ultimate Skill is conceptual manipulation. The Web Novel version of Hinata should also have information erasure for destroying a Rimuru's Ultimate Skill. It seems like there is clearer evidence that Ultimate SKils would resist lower skills like unique skills and skills in Volume 10 but not Anti-skill. In Volume 13 MTL, there is more evidence that exists; I would say the evidence is not above fan translations or official releases so the check translation would be better, though. Guy also mentioned this statement in Volume 6. The counterpoint of Ultimate Skill is CP mentioned here like for example Mathematician still working.

Improved info analysis for Rimuru and can detect even those that has high resistance to info manip and masking their true abilities

<Report. Established connection with the Intrinsic Skill ‘Labyrinth Creation’ of individual ‘Ramiris’. Proceeding to gather intelligence.>>

As if it was already on the edge of its seat, Raphael-san launched its operation. And in that same instant, it felt as though a tidal wave of information flooded into my brain—though it had no ill effect on my body. I had tensed up in anticipation, yet it was all for nothing.

<<Report. ‘Analyze and Assess’ of team ‘Green Rebellion’ has concluded. The captain’s abilities exceed Rank A. The analysis of the remaining members deviates by a negligible amount from the previous appraisal.>>

It looked like Raphael-san was able to get the necessary information in a moment’s notice. What a reliable sensei indeed. But for some reason, Raphael-san seemed to be continuing its ‘Analyze and Assess’, was there something else on its mind?- Volume 10

Resistance to information analysis on Rimuru's sword

This hihiirokane seemed capable of resisting the wavelengths of every single physical property. Normally, it wouldn’t even reflect light because it simply cancelled out the wavelengths within the visible light spectrum, which probably explained why the blade was pitch black. It could mask its unique properties from others as well—even from my ‘Analyze and Assess’. How impressive. - Volume 11

Air Manip for Ifrit/Charys

"Oh, about that. Even though I am a greater fire elemental spirit, now I can somehow wield wind elemental power as well. My hair should have been red, yet for some reason its color is mostly dark. I believe that Veldora-sama’s power has influenced it greatly. Furthermore, it may have been because the Charybdis was a female that I ended up looking like this.” - Volume 11

Possession? for Rimuru, Veldora, Ramiris, Milim when using their emulated soul as host

“That’s not all, just yet. What comes next is the real deal. Go take a seat and get comfortable. Then aim your ‘Emulated Soul’ at your monster and shout ‘Possess’.”

I saw a fair amount of skepticism in their faces, yet they still listened and sat down in a comfortable position. The chairs in the conference room were all very cozy and had exquisite cushioning.

All at once, they shouted: “ “ “POSSESS!” ” ”

I shouted along with them, and not a moment later, the ‘Emulated Soul’ in our hands began to glow and was absorbed by the monsters. It then began to merge with the ‘Master Core’.

The possession of the ‘Master Core’ was complete.

And at the same time—my consciousness faded. And soon after, the view in front of me changed. The effective range of my usual ‘Magic Perception’ decreased sharply, making me feel that my field of view had suddenly become much smaller.

By now I had simulated the five senses


By now I had simulated the five senses, so it felt much better than when I first reincarnated. However, unlike me, the other three had not experienced something like this in the past. I figured that they were going to have a hard time. With that in mind, I glanced around…

From my reduced field of vision, I could see a skeleton warrior stretching and a slime moving at abnormal speeds. There was also a set of armor going through rigid motions, looking like some shoddy, bootleg Tin Man.

All three of them sporting their new appearances, each had successfully ‘possessed’ the monsters they created. - Volume 10

• The Possession would be the same case for Web Novel as well.
• Just a minor point, Hinata's third key (Web Novel) needs some cleanup because she should have all of her first key abilities that were accepted in prior CRTs except Mathematician and Usurper which she lost.
• Perception Manipulation for Gobta (Can accelerate his thought process by 1000x)
• Air Manipulation for Carillion (The tip of his claws cast something akin to a vacuum wave, tearing up any opponents in that direction)
• Spatial Manipulation or Sound Manipulation for Ruminas (Dimension Severance can cause others to not able to hear Ruminas’s voice)
• Immortality (Type 1; Demons have no defined lifespan)
• Resurrection for demons (Spiritual lifeforms that resurrect over time, also are perfectly fine as long as their souls aren't destroyed)
• Class 5 lifting strength for everyone basically (Majins can lift several tons)
• Disintegration is basically described as a Divine Spell; I guess it would be both Holy Manipulation and Existence Erasure for characters who have it (Existence Erasure for it is already on Sakaguchi Hinata (Light Novel)'s profile).

 

[Beezlebuth]

About the removal of conceptual manipulation
1. What about great sage stealing the voice of the world? Skills are only utilized by beings with magic yes, but they dont use magic to function, as seen with gluttony working without ill-effects from the holy barrier against hinata.
2. Turn null is not a magical energy, rather a chaotic-nihility energy which created the multiverse, and even existed before all of creation. It includes all the fairies, magic, reality with it's laws and more.
3. I was even coming up for a possible type 2 conceptual manip. Ciel was able to talk even after the universal concepts such as space-time ended, leaving it as a nothingness, and ciel consistently used the voice of the world to talk from its early great sage days
4. And If I recall correctly, spiritual magic isnt even magic, rather just natural energy, considering it explains that in a few places, also in the hinata fight as rimuru used his magic as the energy for the fire spirit to function, and it worked when all magic was "cleansed" in the barrier

 

[WHYNAUT]

@Beezlebuth

Something not being magical doesn't make it conceptual. None of those things qualify.

 

[Beezlebuth]

@WHYNAUT

Even the great sage manipulating a system governing multiverses isnt? What is that then? And if you read some of the things it said, it was because it was magic doing it "Thematically, it makes less sense for him to learn conceptual manipulation after just mastering magic and the case here seems to suggest this just description of his mastery of magic, from Occam's Razor."

I don't even know why I quoted that, the literal entire point was because it was magic, so saying it isnt magic does wonders, but when i commented it was didnt specify LN/WN and i havent read LN so ignore me

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

@Elizhaa you should also add to the CRT about the Ultimate Skill user resisting lower level skills such as Unique Skill. Vol 10 gave us more evidence especially Mariabell using the full power of Greed but it didn’t work on Rimuru due to having an US

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

Other than that since I also contributed in the CRT, I agree

 

[Metalballrun]

Should AP upgrades be a separate CRT?

 

[The_Narrator_of_Narrative]

I agree with pretty much everything, and the High-Godly Regeneration argument seems valid for me

 

[WHYNAUT]

Btw wasn't it agreed a while ago that LN Hinata shouldn't have Conceptual Destruction for destroying an Ultimate Skill?

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

Should AP upgrades be a separate CRT?

Yes same with the speed downgrades but will put them in the same thread

 

[The_Narrator_of_Narrative]

Btw wasn't it agreed a while ago that LN Hinata shouldn't have Conceptual Destruction for destroying an Ultimate Skill?

I think yes, it depends a lot to us to interpret if the verse (LN) has a correspondent to Conceptual Destruction/Manipulation, if it’s not directly stated that their abilities attack Concepts, and if in this specific context it should be Conceptual Manipulation, so following this reasoning the removal seems plausible

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

Btw wasn't it agreed a while ago that LN Hinata shouldn't have Conceptual Destruction for destroying an Ultimate Skill?

Yes it should be Information destruction for destroying an Ultimate skill

 

[Elizhaa]

Yes it should be Information destruction for destroying an Ultimate skill

I agree. The conceptual erasure there in Hinata's Light Novel profile should be information erasure for destroying a Rimuru's Ultimate Skill; there is no concrete evidence that destroying an Ultimate Skill is conceptual manipulation.

The Web Novel version of Hinata should also have information erasure for destroying a Rimuru's Ultimate Skill.

I will add those additions to the OP under Other things.

 

[Elizhaa]

@Elizhaa you should also add to the CRT about the Ultimate Skill user resisting lower level skills such as Unique Skill. Vol 10 gave us more evidence especially Mariabell using the full power of Greed but it didn’t work on Rimuru due to having an US

I added those points to the OP under Other things.

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

Also add this too in the OP:

Improved info analysis for Rimuru and can detect even those that has high resistance to info manip and masking their true abilities

<Report. Established connection with the Intrinsic Skill ‘Labyrinth Creation’ of individual ‘Ramiris’. Proceeding to gather intelligence.>>

As if it was already on the edge of its seat, Raphael-san launched its operation. And in that same instant, it felt as though a tidal wave of information flooded into my brain—though it had no ill effect on my body. I had tensed up in anticipation, yet it was all for nothing.

<<Report. ‘Analyze and Assess’ of team ‘Green Rebellion’ has concluded. The captain’s abilities exceed Rank A. The analysis of the remaining members deviates by a negligible amount from the previous appraisal.>>

It looked like Raphael-san was able to get the necessary information in a moment’s notice. What a reliable sensei indeed. But for some reason, Raphael-san seemed to be continuing its ‘Analyze and Assess’, was there something else on its mind?- Volume 10

Resistance to information analysis on Rimuru's sword

This hihiirokane seemed capable of resisting the wavelengths of every single physical property. Normally, it wouldn’t even reflect light because it simply cancelled out the wavelengths within the visible light spectrum, which probably explained why the blade was pitch black. It could mask its unique properties from others as well—even from my ‘Analyze and Assess’. How impressive. - Volume 11

Air Manip for Ifrit/Charys

"Oh, about that. Even though I am a greater fire elemental spirit, now I can somehow wield wind elemental power as well. My hair should have been red, yet for some reason its color is mostly dark. I believe that Veldora-sama’s power has influenced it greatly. Furthermore, it may have been because the Charybdis was a female that I ended up looking like this.” - Volume 11

Possession? for Rimuru, Veldora, Ramiris, Milim when using their emulated soul as host

“That’s not all, just yet. What comes next is the real deal. Go take a seat and get comfortable. Then aim your ‘Emulated Soul’ at your monster and shout ‘Possess’.”

I saw a fair amount of skepticism in their faces, yet they still listened and sat down in a comfortable position. The chairs in the conference room were all very cozy and had exquisite cushioning.

All at once, they shouted: “ “ “POSSESS!” ” ”

I shouted along with them, and not a moment later, the ‘Emulated Soul’ in our hands began to glow and was absorbed by the monsters. It then began to merge with the ‘Master Core’.

The possession of the ‘Master Core’ was complete.

And at the same time—my consciousness faded. And soon after, the view in front of me changed. The effective range of my usual ‘Magic Perception’ decreased sharply, making me feel that my field of view had suddenly become much smaller.

By now I had simulated the five senses


By now I had simulated the five senses, so it felt much better than when I first reincarnated. However, unlike me, the other three had not experienced something like this in the past. I figured that they were going to have a hard time. With that in mind, I glanced around…

From my reduced field of vision, I could see a skeleton warrior stretching and a slime moving at abnormal speeds. There was also a set of armor going through rigid motions, looking like some shoddy, bootleg Tin Man.

All three of them sporting their new appearances, each had successfully ‘possessed’ the monsters they created. - Volume 10

I think that's all for ability additions

 

[Elizhaa]

Those additions seem fine.

I added those additions to the OP; the last case also was also similar in the Web Novel so I added the abilities with evidence. Hinata's third key (Web Novel) needs some updates so I added the arguments for the changes also.

 

[Metalballrun]

Shouldn't Diablo also have Holy Manipulation due to him being able to use Disintegration?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Some more stuff to add:

Perception Manipulation for Gobta (Can accelerate his thought process by 1000x)
Air Manipulation for Carillion (The tip of his claws cast something akin to a vacuum wave, tearing up any opponents in that direction)
Spatial Manipulation or Sound Manipulation for Ruminas (Dimension Severance can cause others to not able to hear Ruminas’s voice)
Immortality (Type 1; Demons have no defined lifespan)
Resurrection for demons (Spiritual lifeforms that resurrect over time, also are perfectly fine as long as their souls aren't destroyed)
Class 5 lifting strength for everyone basically (Majins can lift several tons)

 

[Elizhaa]

Spatial Manipulation or Sound Manipulation for Ruminas (Dimension Severance can cause others to not able to hear Ruminas’s voice)

• I think Spatial Manipulation works better since Dimension Severance is more aligned with its definition.

Resurrection for demons (Spiritual lifeforms that resurrect over time, also are perfectly fine as long as their souls aren't destroyed)

• I think this scan works well for Spiritual lifeforms that resurrect over time.

Class 5 lifting strength for everyone basically (Majins can lift several tons)

• Yes, I think it would scale to all monsters like Majins.

The other things I think are fine; I also added the post above to the OP.

 

[Elizhaa]

Shouldn't Diablo also have Holy Manipulation due to him being able to use Disintegration?

Probably; I checked Disintegration is basically described as a Divine Spell; I guess it would be both Holy Manipulation and Existence Erasure. I added the additions to the OP.

 

[Elizhaa]

I guess what is left to do is waiting a while for new inputs.

 

[Ionliosite]

Yeah, I agree with all of this.

 

[Community_Gamer]

I agree with pretty everything. As long as LN Hinata doesn't get Concept Manipulation or Destruction. I personally don't even agree with her the interpretation of the feat, but that's already been decided. Information particles aren't actually information itself. Just something that contains it. So if anyone needed another reason.

 

[Beezlebuth]

I already made my input but I agree

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

Bump. Needs more input

 

[Elizhaa]

I will probably wait a few hours like 2 to 3 hours extra for more inputs; if the thread doesn't more inputs, I will go with the majority agreements with making the changes.

 

[Metalballrun]

Some possible additions for Shion's profile.

Spoiler: Volume 11

Chaotic Fate should be added in Shion's profile. It should be something like:

Chaotic Fate: with her Unique Skill 'Cook', Shion uses all of her willpower into a strike that can cut through all the laws in the world.

It might also be possible to add Resistance Negation (Reality Warping, Death, Law and Fate Manipulation) as well as Durability Negation and Biological Manipulation, and Death Manipulation for Chaotic Fate.
When she was fighting Razul, none of her attacks were working against him despite her using Unique Skill Cook. Which could mean that Razul has resistance to Cook's effects as well as Hercules Ex directly attacking the soul, which is plausible since he's from the overpowered Insector race.

Of course, Shion only used it as a distraction for Razul and then rapidly closedin. She launched her next attack in a swift motion. Razul managed to deflect the blow yet again, but it numbed his arm. She had improved greatly. Even during combat, she was refining her skills.
Not enough, this is still not enough!
Just now, she utilized her Unique Skill ‘Cook’. She wanted to use ‘Guaranteed Outcome’ to destroy Razul’s hardened exoskeleton.
She had not given up even though he deflected every blow. She focused on slashing the same spot all this time, only holding one thought: “destroy the exoskeleton”.
Shion’s goal was to bend the rules and break the seemingly unbreakable exoskeleton. Regardless of how strong Razul was, Shion refused to relent. She kept
him busy, and even when her skills seemed useless, she did not fall into despair. She had faith that her wishes would come true as she continued to attack.
Razul calmly parried Shion’s attacks. He attacked and defended with mechanical precision. He was entirely nonchalant in how he calmly handled Shion.
On the other hand, Shion tried every trick in the book. She even activated her Intrinsic Skill ‘Ogre Berserker’ to go beyond her limits as she fought. Yet no matter what she did, to Razul, her attacks were a piece of cake.
The difference in strength was unfathomable.

Chaotic Fate then works. Although it might be unclear whether it was Shion's and Ranga's AP or the Chaotic Fate or both that caused damage to Razul. It caused a small crack in his arm to completely bisecting Razul, hence Biological Manipulation.

Shion raised her ‘Hercules Ex’ to the sky with both hands.
It was then that Ranga released ‘Black Lightning’, having concentrated all his energy on it. He had been saving his energy to charge its power. It was the most powerful strike Ranga could manage.
Ranga had faith in Shion, and even if the lightning he summoned hurt her, if that was what she wanted, he would do it in a heartbeat.
“You punks—! My shell—”
Shion didn’t give a crap about what Razul was going to say.
“CHAOTIC FATE!”
With all her willpower infused in her strike, it could cut through all the laws in the world. As lightning intertwined with her odachi, she swung down—
Shion’s attack left a small crack on Razul’s arm. His exoskeleton blocked most of the attack, but that was more than enough for Shion. As long as she could make a tiny opening, she would be able to activate ‘Optimal Action’ and reach ‘Certain Outcome’. This was the secret of Shion’s Unique Skill ‘Cook’.
—The blade flashed, leaving a severed blade flying through the air.
Shion’s odachi had broken into two in the end. Yet, Razul was the one to fall.
Starting from the left hand that was originally cut, a huge wound extending from the center of his body and his shoulder severed him in two.
The devastating lightning ripped through the wound and scorched Razul’s insides.
It was at that moment that the battle was decided.
Razul fell to the ground.

Otherwise, it would just be the difference in AP/Durability + Razul's Magic Interference, which means Cook doesn't negate durability normally (which isn't listed on the profile anyways). But Chaotic Fate should still have Durability Negation and Biological Manipulation IMO, and possibly Death Manipulation?

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

Oh yeah I almost forgot about Chaotic Fate

The way I see it, Razul has anti-magic physique on his exoskeleton that negates any skill like Yuuki and Chaotic Fate was able to destroy the rules regarding about Razul's exoskeleton by using improved version of "Optimal Action" and "Certain Outcome" to reach her desired outcome of her attack.

I think it's just an improved Reality Warping, Fate Manipulation, Law Manipulation. We might also put Durability Negation based on the context but not sure about Resistance Negation. Might need staff input here.

We must not forget about her new Unique Skill "Battle God" which is a higher level of Stat amp (also boosts her aura) compare to Battlewill, Strengthen Body, Strengthen will, etc.

When Shion activated her Unique Skill ‘Battle God’, she would quickly be pushed to the limit of her abilities. Her next strike would decide the victor of the battle.

And so, with this resolve, Shion entered the final confrontation with her enemy.

“What is this power?” Razul exclaimed. “It’s coming straight for me!”

Under the influence of ‘Battle God’, Shion’s youki was overwhelmingly powerful. At the same time, it had enhanced her body, sharpening all of her senses. Shion could feel her strength boiling inside her. - Volume 11

Of course Rimuru will also have access to her abilities

 

[Community_Gamer]

Some possible additions for Shion's profile.

Spoiler: Volume 11

Chaotic Fate should be added in Shion's profile. It should be something like:



It might also be possible to add Resistance Negation (Reality Warping, Death, Law and Fate Manipulation) as well as Durability Negation and Biological Manipulation, and Death Manipulation for Chaotic Fate.
When she was fighting Razul, none of her attacks were working against him despite her using Unique Skill Cook. Which could mean that Razul has resistance to Cook's effects as well as Hercules Ex directly attacking the soul, which is plausible since he's from the overpowered Insector race.




Chaotic Fate then works. Although it might be unclear whether it was Shion's and Ranga's AP or the Chaotic Fate or both that caused damage to Razul. It caused a small crack in his arm to completely bisecting Razul, hence Biological Manipulation.




Otherwise, it would just be the difference in AP/Durability + Razul's Magic Interference, which means Cook doesn't negate durability normally (which isn't listed on the profile anyways). But Chaotic Fate should still have Durability Negation and Biological Manipulation IMO, and possibly Death Manipulation?

Well, you realize that Chaotic Fate is Fate manipulation right? She's able to makes impossibilities reality.

 

[Community_Gamer]

Oh yeah I almost forgot about Chaotic Fate

The way I see it, Razul has anti-magic physique on his exoskeleton that negates any skill like Yuuki and Chaotic Fate was able to destroy the rules regarding about Razul's exoskeleton by using improved version of "Optimal Action" and "Certain Outcome" to reach her desired outcome of her attack.

I think it's just an improved Reality Warping, Fate Manipulation, Law Manipulation. We might also put Durability Negation based on the context but not sure about Resistance Negation. Might need staff input here.

We must not forget about her new Unique Skill "Battle God" which is a higher level of Stat amp (also boosts her aura) compare to Battlewill, Strengthen Body, Strengthen will, etc.

Of course Rimuru will also have access to her abilities

She should already have Law Manipulation.

 

[Elizhaa]

“CHAOTIC FATE!”
With all her willpower infused in her strike, it could cut through all the laws in the world. As lightning intertwined with her odachi, she swung down—

It seems like better law manipulation from its effect, if I am honest; Shion then used Cook to break Razul's armor once the crack to the armor was made.

It can also be added to Shion's Notable Attacks/Techniques, in my opinion.

 

[Elizhaa]

Stats Amp via Battle God looks fine.

 

[Metalballrun]

The way I see it, Razul has anti-magic physique on his exoskeleton that negates any skill like Yuuki and Chaotic Fate was able to destroy the rules regarding about Razul's exoskeleton by using improved version of "Optimal Action" and "Certain Outcome" to reach her desired outcome of her attack.

I think it's just an improved Reality Warping, Fate Manipulation, Law Manipulation. We might also put Durability Negation based on the context but not sure about Resistance Negation. Might need staff input here.

We must not forget about her new Unique Skill "Battle God" which is a higher level of Stat amp (also boosts her aura) compare to Battlewill, Strengthen Body, Strengthen will, etc.

That is also equally plausible. The real issue is Resistance Negation, since even if we consider it as similar to Yuuki's Anti-Skill, it still would count as Resistance that Chaotic Fate was able to bypass, especially since Shion was actively using Chef/Cook as it seems against Razul who was not affected by it, if I'm not mistaken.
And yes, I missed the Battle God skill, it should also be added.

Well, you realize that Chaotic Fate is Fate manipulation right? She's able to makes impossibilities reality.

Yes? I don't see the reason why this should be brought up. It is obvious.

It seems like better law manipulation from its effect, if I am honest; Shion then used Cook to break Razul's armor once the crack to the armor was made.

It can also be added to Shion's Notable Attacks/Techniques, in my opinion.

I agree. The issue is with the Resistance Negation part, which I'm not entirely certain of, since Shion is using Cook/Chef but was dealing no damage.

 

[Elizhaa]

Resistance Negation is the ability to remove an opponent's ability to resist certain effects, allowing the user to then affect them with those abilities. In extreme cases, this ability can even override apparent immunity. Simply overwhelming with hax stronger than what they can resist normally doesn't qualify.

I think Chaotic Fate overpowered Razul's resistances but didn't negate or removed his resistances. So, I don't think Shion would get Resistance Negation.

 

[Elizhaa]

I am probably going to start making the accepted changes a few hours later when I have the time to give the wait and large agreement, today.

I do have a question, does anyone have a list a full list of abilities that Ultimate Skills users resist. I know for instance they would resist Rimuru's non-Ultimate skills abilities (Rimuru's abilities are almost verse composite so this is why I mentioned it), and Alvis's petrification.

 

[Metalballrun]

Resistance Negation is the ability to remove an opponent's ability to resist certain effects, allowing the user to then affect them with those abilities. In extreme cases, this ability can even override apparent immunity. Simply overwhelming with hax stronger than what they can resist normally doesn't qualify.

I think Chaotic Fate overpowered Razul's resistances but didn't negate or removed his resistances. So, I don't think Shion would get Resistance Negation.

I think overpowering a resistance might count as a limited version of negation. But with the term itself and the page description, yeah I agree and concede.
So it's just a greatly improved effects of Chef/Cook then, with overpowering Razul's resistances as evidence. Maybe improved Death Manipulation too since Hercules Ex which is supposed to be instant death wasn't doing anything to Razul except numbing his arm at best.

 

[Everything12]

That would simply count as layered hax, basically, a Hax that overrides resistance through higher potency, Resistance Negation needs way more evidence.

 

[Elizhaa]

That would simply count as layered hax, basically, a Hax that overrides resistance through higher potency, Resistance Negation needs way more evidence.

I shared these views also.

 

[Community_Gamer]

That is also equally plausible. The real issue is Resistance Negation, since even if we consider it as similar to Yuuki's Anti-Skill, it still would count as Resistance that Chaotic Fate was able to bypass, especially since Shion was actively using Chef/Cook as it seems against Razul who was not affected by it, if I'm not mistaken.
And yes, I missed the Battle God skill, it should also be added.


Yes? I don't see the reason why this should be brought up. It is obvious.


I agree. The issue is with the Resistance Negation part, which I'm not entirely certain of, since Shion is using Cook/Chef but was dealing no damage.

It didn't seem like it was being addressed. Just clarifying.

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

Yeah it's just overpowering resistances so I don't agree with Resistance Neg

Once the changes have applied, the CRT for tiers and speed adjustment thread should be next