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Meh it's not what you expect. the game is called tower of saviors.
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a controversial question.
- Thread starter 1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void
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- sun wukong
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I see your point, but just using Ricsi's wukong test profile is the closest shot we have to a Wukong profile that can be accepted by the wiki, It's also a waste to just nuke the profile anyway, The people who wants the profile nuked because it's biased, downplayed and etc is, I speak N O T a valid reason why the profile should be removed, the only time it should be removed is when the profile does not fit with the standards of the VS battle wiki.
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@Ricsi-viragosi
@FluffyCreatureZ
In all honesty we could just use
4A, possibly low 2C
because he did state he could move entire constellations. as well as there are statements of the milky way galaxy does exists and could be viewed from the heavens.
Immortals and the Buddha put down their cups,
Each of them raising their heads to look.
An old man appeared in the middle of the Milky Way
Holding a sacred mushroom.
His gourd contains ten-thousand-year elixir.
Edit: Should we just continue this to the CRT?
@FluffyCreatureZ
In all honesty we could just use
4A, possibly low 2C
because he did state he could move entire constellations. as well as there are statements of the milky way galaxy does exists and could be viewed from the heavens.
Immortals and the Buddha put down their cups,
Each of them raising their heads to look.
An old man appeared in the middle of the Milky Way
Holding a sacred mushroom.
His gourd contains ten-thousand-year elixir.
Edit: Should we just continue this to the CRT?
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Non of these feats are AP feats let alone 4-A.
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including moving an entire constellation?
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because I'm pretty sure It is at least above baseline 4B
edit: @Antvasima could we continue this on the CRT forums?
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I mean, yes, they could see the Milky Way back when Journey was written. That does not mean it was viewed as being a millionth as large as it is now.
Same for constellation. They got armors and weapons when they moved to fight Wukong, can you really say they were actually meant to be giant masses of burning gas that are lightyears apart?
Same for constellation. They got armors and weapons when they moved to fight Wukong, can you really say they were actually meant to be giant masses of burning gas that are lightyears apart?
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why should we use the context of the past? I thought we weren't suppose to use that as the basis for the profile.
The constellations he was fighting was called its "embodiments" right? so it could just be a certain god that governs that constellation's notion.
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I mean if the argument is that Sun Wukong is unindexable just leave him off the wiki.
Not every file in existence has to be crammed onto it for the sake of it, especially if it's shit that's contradicting our standards.
Not every file in existence has to be crammed onto it for the sake of it, especially if it's shit that's contradicting our standards.
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No, It's not really going against the wiki's standard rather it's stats are all over the place and has many variables. Low 2C at max and Low 7B at the driest possible milk he could get.
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@The_Impress
but anyway, we just need to figure out which tier he's suppose to lock and load. so yeah.
but anyway, we just need to figure out which tier he's suppose to lock and load. so yeah.
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Yeah, maybe it could give speed but not AP, you can't use kinetic energy here, maybe it's lifting strength.
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oof, then Wukong would only be Low 7B, which is the driest milk in the entire block he could possibly get then.
He would just be Low 7B as the monkey king and unknown for his dura and then there is his Buddhahood form which is the simplest one to tier by far than his base.
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...?
What do you mean, the context of the fiction we are indexing doesn't matter? For the same reason we don't use out-of-story religion, we won't use millennia in the future science for a book.
The constellations are able to stay in camps, wear armor and wield blades. The milky way likewise can be crossed with a somersault that moves less distance than the width of the sun.
Not claimed to be so in the story, no, but if they were then it wouldn't matter to their tier since there's no reason.
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hmmm...........................................................................................................................
oh, I see............................................................................................................
But I'm still insistent that Ricsi's test profile should be used, Ricsi's test profile minimizes most of the usage of flowery languages and is just. could we actually please, just please just use it?
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Okay, I searched through the first chapter of West and found how its universe were created. would this be helpful?
"Before Chaos was divided, Heaven and Earth were one;
All was a shapeless blur, and no men had appeared.
Once Pan Gu destroyed the Enormous Vagueness
The separation of clear and impure began.
Living things have always tended towards humanity;
From their creation all beings improve.
If you want to know about Creation and Time,
Read Difficulties Resolved on the Journey to the West.
In the arithmetic of the universe, 129,600 years make one cycle. Each cycle can be divided into twelve phases: I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX, X, XI and XII, the twelve branches. Each phase lasts 10,800 years.
Now within a single day, the positive begins at the time I; at II the **** crows; at III it is not quite light; at IV the sun rises; V is after breakfast; and at VI one does business. VII is when the sun reaches noon; at VIII it is slipping towards the West; IX is late afternoon; the sun sets at X; XI is dusk; and at XII people settle down for the night.
If you compare this with the big numbers, then at the end of Phase XI Heaven and Earth were still one, and no beings had appeared. 5,400 years later came the beginning of Phase XII, when all was darkness and there were still no people or other creatures; for this reason it was called Chaos. Another 5,400 years later Phase XII was drawing to a close and a new cycle was about to begin. As Phase I of the new era approached, gradually there was light. As Shao Yong said,
“When winter reaches the mid-point of Phase I
The heart of Heaven does not move.
Where the Positive first appears
Nothing has yet come to life.”
At this time, Heaven first had a foundation. 5,400 years later, in the middle of Phase I, the light and pure rose upwards, and sun, moon, stars, and constellations were created. These were called the Four Images. Hence the saying that heaven began in I.
Another 5,400 years later, when Phase I was nearing its end and Phase II was imminent, things gradually solidified. As the Book of Changes says, “Great is the Positive; far-reaching is the Negative! All things are endowed and born in accordance with Heaven.” This was when the earth began to congeal. After 5,400 more years came the height of Phase II, when the heavy and impure solidified, and water, fire, mountains, stone, and Earth came into being. These five were called the Five Movers. Therefore it is said that the Earth was created in Phase II.
After a further 5,400 years, at the end of Phase II and the beginning of the Phase III, living beings were created. In the words of the Book of the Calendar, “The essence of the sky came down and the essence of earth went up. Heaven and Earth intermingled, and all creatures were born.” Then Heaven was bright and Earth was fresh, and the Positive intermingled with the Negative. 5,400 years later, when Phase III was at its height, men, birds and beasts were created. Thus the Three Powers—Heaven, Earth and Man—now had their set places. Therefore it is said that man was created in Phase III.
Moved by Pan Gu’s creation, the Three Emperors put the world in order and the Five Rulers laid down the moral code. The world was then divided into four great continents: The Eastern Continent of Superior Body, the Western Continent of Cattle-gift, the Southern Continent of Jambu and the Northern Continent of Kuru. This book deals only with the Eastern Continent of Superior Body. Beyond the seas there is a country called Aolai. This country is next to an ocean, and in the middle of the ocean is a famous island called the Mountain of Flowers and Fruit. This mountain is the ancestral artery of the Ten Continents, the origin of the Three Islands; it was formed when the clear and impure were separated and the Enormous Vagueness was divided. It is a really splendid mountain and there are some verses to prove it:"
it talks about the formations of stars, constellations, moons and the sun as well as Dual distinctions, the Earth, mountains and four continents, would this be enough to justify there is at least a 4A cosmology?
"Before Chaos was divided, Heaven and Earth were one;
All was a shapeless blur, and no men had appeared.
Once Pan Gu destroyed the Enormous Vagueness
The separation of clear and impure began.
Living things have always tended towards humanity;
From their creation all beings improve.
If you want to know about Creation and Time,
Read Difficulties Resolved on the Journey to the West.
In the arithmetic of the universe, 129,600 years make one cycle. Each cycle can be divided into twelve phases: I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX, X, XI and XII, the twelve branches. Each phase lasts 10,800 years.
Now within a single day, the positive begins at the time I; at II the **** crows; at III it is not quite light; at IV the sun rises; V is after breakfast; and at VI one does business. VII is when the sun reaches noon; at VIII it is slipping towards the West; IX is late afternoon; the sun sets at X; XI is dusk; and at XII people settle down for the night.
If you compare this with the big numbers, then at the end of Phase XI Heaven and Earth were still one, and no beings had appeared. 5,400 years later came the beginning of Phase XII, when all was darkness and there were still no people or other creatures; for this reason it was called Chaos. Another 5,400 years later Phase XII was drawing to a close and a new cycle was about to begin. As Phase I of the new era approached, gradually there was light. As Shao Yong said,
“When winter reaches the mid-point of Phase I
The heart of Heaven does not move.
Where the Positive first appears
Nothing has yet come to life.”
At this time, Heaven first had a foundation. 5,400 years later, in the middle of Phase I, the light and pure rose upwards, and sun, moon, stars, and constellations were created. These were called the Four Images. Hence the saying that heaven began in I.
Another 5,400 years later, when Phase I was nearing its end and Phase II was imminent, things gradually solidified. As the Book of Changes says, “Great is the Positive; far-reaching is the Negative! All things are endowed and born in accordance with Heaven.” This was when the earth began to congeal. After 5,400 more years came the height of Phase II, when the heavy and impure solidified, and water, fire, mountains, stone, and Earth came into being. These five were called the Five Movers. Therefore it is said that the Earth was created in Phase II.
After a further 5,400 years, at the end of Phase II and the beginning of the Phase III, living beings were created. In the words of the Book of the Calendar, “The essence of the sky came down and the essence of earth went up. Heaven and Earth intermingled, and all creatures were born.” Then Heaven was bright and Earth was fresh, and the Positive intermingled with the Negative. 5,400 years later, when Phase III was at its height, men, birds and beasts were created. Thus the Three Powers—Heaven, Earth and Man—now had their set places. Therefore it is said that man was created in Phase III.
Moved by Pan Gu’s creation, the Three Emperors put the world in order and the Five Rulers laid down the moral code. The world was then divided into four great continents: The Eastern Continent of Superior Body, the Western Continent of Cattle-gift, the Southern Continent of Jambu and the Northern Continent of Kuru. This book deals only with the Eastern Continent of Superior Body. Beyond the seas there is a country called Aolai. This country is next to an ocean, and in the middle of the ocean is a famous island called the Mountain of Flowers and Fruit. This mountain is the ancestral artery of the Ten Continents, the origin of the Three Islands; it was formed when the clear and impure were separated and the Enormous Vagueness was divided. It is a really splendid mountain and there are some verses to prove it:"
it talks about the formations of stars, constellations, moons and the sun as well as Dual distinctions, the Earth, mountains and four continents, would this be enough to justify there is at least a 4A cosmology?
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This seems to be at least 4-A.
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great. that would mean Wukong Pre-Buddhahood would be 4A in durability by tanking Buddha's palm.
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and also I think The part where Buddha held the universe in his palm was probably a misintepration on the progenitor's of wukong's profile side. I'll explain once most of you guys are on.
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When he heard this offer the Great Sage smiled to himself and thought, “This Buddha is a complete idiot. I can cover thirty-six thousand miles with a somersault, so how could I fail to jump out of the palm of his hand, which is less than a foot across?”
With this in his mind he asked eagerly, “Do you guarantee that yourself?”
“Yes, yes,” the Buddha replied, and he stretched out his right hand, which seemed to be about the size of a lotus leaf. Putting away his As-You-Will cudgel, the Great Sage summoned up all his divine powers, jumped into the palm of the Buddha’s hand, and said, “I’m off.” Watch him as he goes like a streak of light and disappears completely. The Buddha, who was watching him with his wise eyes, saw the Monkey King whirling forward like a windmill and not stopping until he saw five flesh-pink pillars topped by dark vapours.
“This is the end of the road,” he said, “so now I’ll go back. The Buddha will be witness, and the Hall of Miraculous Mist will be mine.” Then he thought again, “Wait a moment. I’ll leave my mark here to prove my case when I talk to the Buddha.” He pulled out a hair, breathed on it with his magic breath, and shouted “Change.” It turned into a writing brush dipped in ink, and with it he wrote THE GREAT SAGE EQUALING HEAVEN WAS HERE in big letters on the middle pillar. When that was done he put the hair back on, and, not standing on his dignity, made a pool of monkey piss at the foot of the pillar. Then he turned his somersault round and went back to where he had started from.
“I went, and now I’m back. Tell the Jade Emperor to hand the Heavenly Palace over to me,” he said, standing in the Buddha’s palm.
“I’ve got you, you piss-spirit of a monkey,” roared the Buddha at him. “You never left the palm of my hand.”
“You’re wrong there,” the Great Sage replied. “I went to the farthest point of Heaven, where I saw five flesh-pink pillars topped by dark vapours. I left my mark there: do you dare come and see it with me?”
“There’s no need to go. Just look down.” The Great Sage looked down with his fire eyes with golden pupils to see the words “The Great Sage Equaling Heaven Was Here” written on the middle finger of the Buddha’s right hand. The stink of monkey-piss rose from the fold at the bottom of the finger.
So the above is where we got the feat of Buddha holding the universe in his palms right? well wrong, It wasn't outright stated at all. this does not say Buddha held the entirety of creation at all guys.
This is how its supposed to be interpreted from my view, The five pillars holding all of creation, are in fact, are represented by Buddha's fingers on either hand. This is pretty much a more reasonable verdict than the former interpretation.
Such as when Wukong peed on the pillar and written the words on it, It also appears on Buddha's finger.
with this it would remove wukong's large size type 9 but gain a large statistics increase in durability in his base state.
@Ricsi-viragosi
@FluffyCreatureZ
With this in his mind he asked eagerly, “Do you guarantee that yourself?”
“Yes, yes,” the Buddha replied, and he stretched out his right hand, which seemed to be about the size of a lotus leaf. Putting away his As-You-Will cudgel, the Great Sage summoned up all his divine powers, jumped into the palm of the Buddha’s hand, and said, “I’m off.” Watch him as he goes like a streak of light and disappears completely. The Buddha, who was watching him with his wise eyes, saw the Monkey King whirling forward like a windmill and not stopping until he saw five flesh-pink pillars topped by dark vapours.
“This is the end of the road,” he said, “so now I’ll go back. The Buddha will be witness, and the Hall of Miraculous Mist will be mine.” Then he thought again, “Wait a moment. I’ll leave my mark here to prove my case when I talk to the Buddha.” He pulled out a hair, breathed on it with his magic breath, and shouted “Change.” It turned into a writing brush dipped in ink, and with it he wrote THE GREAT SAGE EQUALING HEAVEN WAS HERE in big letters on the middle pillar. When that was done he put the hair back on, and, not standing on his dignity, made a pool of monkey piss at the foot of the pillar. Then he turned his somersault round and went back to where he had started from.
“I went, and now I’m back. Tell the Jade Emperor to hand the Heavenly Palace over to me,” he said, standing in the Buddha’s palm.
“I’ve got you, you piss-spirit of a monkey,” roared the Buddha at him. “You never left the palm of my hand.”
“You’re wrong there,” the Great Sage replied. “I went to the farthest point of Heaven, where I saw five flesh-pink pillars topped by dark vapours. I left my mark there: do you dare come and see it with me?”
“There’s no need to go. Just look down.” The Great Sage looked down with his fire eyes with golden pupils to see the words “The Great Sage Equaling Heaven Was Here” written on the middle finger of the Buddha’s right hand. The stink of monkey-piss rose from the fold at the bottom of the finger.
So the above is where we got the feat of Buddha holding the universe in his palms right? well wrong, It wasn't outright stated at all. this does not say Buddha held the entirety of creation at all guys.
This is how its supposed to be interpreted from my view, The five pillars holding all of creation, are in fact, are represented by Buddha's fingers on either hand. This is pretty much a more reasonable verdict than the former interpretation.
Such as when Wukong peed on the pillar and written the words on it, It also appears on Buddha's finger.
with this it would remove wukong's large size type 9 but gain a large statistics increase in durability in his base state.
@Ricsi-viragosi
@FluffyCreatureZ
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Also the size of the earth in West is definitely much larger than ours. as stated here, that a river was shown to be 3 million miles long.
“Disciple,” said the Bodhisattva, “this will be hard to cross for the man who will come to fetch the scriptures, as he will be of impure bone and mortal flesh. How will he do it?”
“Teacher, how wide does the river look to you?” asked Huian. The Bodhisattva stopped her cloud to investigate. She saw:
Joining up with the deserts to the East,
Reaching the foreign kingdoms in the West,
Wuge in the South
The Tatars in the North.
It was about three hundred miles across,
And three million miles long.
“Disciple,” said the Bodhisattva, “this will be hard to cross for the man who will come to fetch the scriptures, as he will be of impure bone and mortal flesh. How will he do it?”
“Teacher, how wide does the river look to you?” asked Huian. The Bodhisattva stopped her cloud to investigate. She saw:
Joining up with the deserts to the East,
Reaching the foreign kingdoms in the West,
Wuge in the South
The Tatars in the North.
It was about three hundred miles across,
And three million miles long.
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"I went to the farthest point of Heaven"
"I can cover thirty-six thousand miles"
There is no higher statistics than 5-A to be found here...
And, the whole point of the wager that it was impossible to win because all of creation is within the palms of the Buddha. The fingers are the pillars that hold it up, the palm is the world itself.
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Most seem to agree with it being made if it is done only with in-story feats.
However, some did (like Impress) mention that if its just too flowery to be well-indexed, it may be better to not just put it on the wiki.
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Shouldnt he have Type 4 Immorality as well?
Sun Wukong test
vsbattles.fandom.com
Anyway I dont mind Wukong coming back using Novel feats, I also agree with the Buddha rating being “Unknown, possibly “.
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it was never stated the palm is the world itself.
this very old 1980s adaptation of Si You Ji seems to say otherwise.
(3:00-4:40)
This chinese 1986 live adaptation is far more accurate than any claims of Buddha holding the entire world in his palms very literally made by presumably, Greatsage (damn him, he gave me so much trouble) and seems to support my claims pretty much about Buddha's fingers representing the pillars that holds all of creation.
Edit: at some point old live adaptations of a particular series, are much more reliable for justifying and debunking others claims. (as long as they aren't Netflix adaptations.......)
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You also seem to ignore....my OTHER findings man...
Edit :My platonic apologies for my attitude mostly to fellow Antavsima and Ricsi-viragosi
Rez
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Which game? the only one that I know is black myth wukong and that's going to come out in 2023
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I think removing a profile because you can't properly scale it is dumb, if you can't scale it just put it as unknown.
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I'm fine with the profile being made.
Though, I think it should have its own thread where feats are listed for abilities and tier, to make sure they hold up to actual scrutiny.
If anybody is willing to make a thread listing the quotes for feats, I'll go through it myself. But I really don't want to go through the journey to the West again just for that.
Though, I think it should have its own thread where feats are listed for abilities and tier, to make sure they hold up to actual scrutiny.
If anybody is willing to make a thread listing the quotes for feats, I'll go through it myself. But I really don't want to go through the journey to the West again just for that.
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Once again, this should not be ignored. @Ricsi-viragosi
The earth, has a river, that is longer than the freaking sun.
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Okay. Thank you for the evaluation.
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hol up, why no one told me about this.
but anyway straight to the point as void said. the earth in JTTW is seemingly larger than ours and as well would top ergenverse's star sized planets by a looooooooonnnnnnnggg shot.
but anyway straight to the point as void said. the earth in JTTW is seemingly larger than ours and as well would top ergenverse's star sized planets by a looooooooonnnnnnnggg shot.
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And yet a jump with less than a thousanth the travel capacity of that is able to travel to any point in the world very casually. Such a gigantic river existing is even more of an inconsistency.
There are many contradicting things in it, going from tens of miles being a major distance to them being a casual stroll in the park. And no, it wouldn't, nothing even implies earth is anywhere near that.
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