A contradictory calc guidelines: Large Size rules vs KE rules

[KLOL506]

The other calc members whom I have tagged have also yet to weigh in fully.

 

[Antvasima]

@DontTalkDT @Executor_N0 @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Mr._Bambu @Therefir @DMUA @Damage3245 @DemonGodMitchAubin @Jasonsith @Wokistan @Armorchompy @Migue79 @Psychomaster35 @CloverDragon03 @Dark-Carioca @AbaddonTheDisappointment @Aguywhodoesthings

It seems like KLOL506 still needs your help with these issues:

https://vsbattles.com/threads/a-contradictory-calc-guidelines-large-size-rules-vs-ke-rules.126720/post-5282919

 

[DontTalkDT]

Said mass being around the weight of 200 kg, based on Robert Wadlow's weight, and the weight of the average lion, which averages out around the 180-190 kg mark.

That seems fine, I suppose. Then again, if we use weight as quantification perhaps using the weight of the heaviest human would be better?

Then there's this note that Armorchompy made. This is explicitly meant to be about the object being sent flying by the above methods, not about the person who is performing these actions.

That just sounds confusing, in regard to whether the punch can be calculated or just the KE of sending stuff flying. I would just replace "throwing objects" in the current rule with "launching objects" or "sending objects flying".

 

[KLOL506]

That seems fine, I suppose. Then again, if we use weight as quantification perhaps using the weight of the heaviest human would be better?


That just sounds confusing, in regard to whether the punch can be calculated or just the KE of sending stuff flying.

Just the KE of sending stuff flying, regardless of whether it's done via throwing, pushing, shoving, punching, etc.. Definitely not the punch itself.

I would just replace "throwing objects" in the current rule with "launching objects" or "sending objects flying".

This would also include punching, pushing or shoving objects at a set speed, right?

Again, I will reiterate, this is not about the puncher's speed, but about the speed of hte object getting punched.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Yeah, it would.
I just feel that if you say "This rule only applies to movements unrelated to combat, feats including but not limited to punching, kicking, shoving, throwing, tackling or hitting objects or beings and sending them flying at high speeds would remain unaffected." people will misinterpret this as "if it's in combat, I can calculate punches just via 0.5*fist mass * speed^2" or "If the punch sends something flying, I can calculate punches just via 0.5*fist mass * speed^2".

I believe "launching objects" or "sending objects flying" prevents the assumption that a specific method of doing so is required, while also avoiding such misunderstandings.

 

[KLOL506]

Yeah, it would.
I just feel that if you say "This rule only applies to movements unrelated to combat, feats including but not limited to punching, kicking, shoving, throwing, tackling or hitting objects or beings and sending them flying at high speeds would remain unaffected." people will misinterpret this as "if it's in combat, I can calculate punches just via 0.5*fist mass * speed^2" or "If the punch sends something flying, I can calculate punches just via 0.5*fist mass * speed^2".

I believe "launching objects" or "sending objects flying" prevents the assumption that a specific method of doing so is required, while also avoiding such misunderstandings.

So basically, "This rule only applies to running feats. Feats including launching objects or sending them flying would remain unaffected."

This sound better?

 

[Dark-Carioca]

This:


And this:

This seems fair at first glance

 

[KLOL506]

This seems fair at first glance

Been slightly changed to this now:

So basically, "This rule only applies to running feats. Feats including launching objects or sending them flying would remain unaffected."

Take note that DT has agreed that launching objects/sending them flying also allows the act of punching/kicking/shoving/throwing said objects. Also take heed that this is about the speed of the object getting launched/flying by these acts, we are not calculating the KE or the speed of the person launching the object.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

That's fair enough

 

[DontTalkDT]

So basically, "This rule only applies to running feats. Feats including launching objects or sending them flying would remain unaffected."

This sound better?

"running" is not a good formulation, as every other mode of transportation is included as well (flying, swimming, digging etc.).
I would just do this:

Kinetic Energy based on Movement Speed is case by case: Fiction often treats the speed with which a character can move himself as unrelated to their attack power. As such feats like just running or carrying a small object, like another character, should only be used if the fiction has made clear that the speed of the movement correlates to the character's power or if the character uses the fast moving object to attack. Calculating the energy necessary for moving large structures at great speeds, using the speed things move as a secondary effect of an attack, launching objects and sending them flying etc. are all acceptable methods of quantifying a characters power regardless.

 

[KLOL506]

"running" is not a good formulation, as every other mode of transportation is included as well (flying, swimming, digging etc.).
I would just do this:

This looks much better now.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out. It can probably be applied then.

 

[KLOL506]

'Kay, so about the mass limit for running feats, where will that part go?

 

[DontTalkDT]

Hmmmm... maybe as an additional point to the "Speed can be used to find KE when"-section?

 

[KLOL506]

Hmmmm... maybe as an additional point to the "Speed can be used to find KE when"-section?

I guess, but it should be mentioned that the starting mass thing is for movement based feats, whereas launching/sending objects flying feats wouldn't be affected by such a limit.

 

[Antvasima]

@DontTalkDT

 

[DontTalkDT]

So something like

...a giant character, one weighing 200kg or more, is moving themselves.

One could add after that "For launching feats such a minimum mass isn't necessary." Then again, I'm not sure why anyone would think it is at this point.
Although people are just weird sometimes. I still can't wrap my head around why we had to make a rule explicitly allowing people to vote in their own threads, because people just kept assuming there was a rule against it, despite such a rule never existing at any point.

I'm still undecided on whether we should use 200kg or use 635kg for the heaviest person. Or maybe height of the tallest person? Idk.

 

[KLOL506]

One could add after that "For launching feats such a minimum mass isn't necessary." Then again, I'm not sure why anyone would think it is at this point.
Although people are just weird sometimes. I still can't wrap my head around why we had to make a rule explicitly allowing people to vote in their own threads, because people just kept assuming there was a rule against it, despite such a rule never existing at any point.

Sure.

I'm still undecided on whether we should use 200kg or use 635kg for the heaviest person. Or maybe height of the tallest person? Idk.

635 kg is way too high of a starting point, heavier than most big cats even. Heck, even lightweight track-focused superbikes are around the 190-220 kg mark.

 

[DontTalkDT]

635 kg is way too high of a starting point, heavier than most big cats even. Heck, even lightweight track-focused superbikes are around the 190-220 kg mark.

I guess. On the other hand, that means that means that lots of heavy human characters could qualify just for normal speed feats.

But I guess if people prefer 200kg that's fine with me.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out, DontTalk and KLOL.

 

[DontTalkDT]

So, eh, just remembered we have yet to settle this. Should we apply this with the 200kg version then?

 

[KLOL506]

So, eh, just remembered we have yet to settle this. Should we apply this with the 200kg version then?

Yeah, we should be good to go.

 

[Antvasima]

That is probably fine if our staff members here agree.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I added the 200kg bit. Was there anything more to be added?

 

[KLOL506]

I added the 200kg bit. Was there anything more to be added?

Not to my memory, no. I think we're done here.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. If everything that was agreed here has been applied, it is probably fine if we close this thread then.

Thank you to everybody who helped out here.