8-B Kid Goku upgrade

[Nullflowerblush]

Currently, User blogalesean027/Goku survives a plane crash (0.40818802848 Tons of TNT) (Building level) is accepted as part of 21st Budōkai Goku's durability.
However, a much higher recalculation, User blog:Nullflowerblush/blah, blah, plane crash (Dragon Ball), was recently accepted.

The results are:

1. 1.45710394 Tons of TNT (Building level+; explosive yield)
2. 1.43967495 Tons of TNT (Building level+; tensile strength of steel)
3. 9.95689275 Tons of TNT (Large Building level+; melting of steel)

All three are accepted; however, the question is: is only the highest value applied, or are all three combined as the total energy output of the explosion?

If the former,

Spoiler

• 21st Budōkai Goku is upgraded from 3.72 Tons of TNT (Large Building level) to 9.95689275 Tons of TNT (Large Building level+).
• Post-Korin Training Goku & Pilaf Arc Goku as an Oozaru are upgraded from 7.44 Tons of TNT (Large Building level+) to 19.9137855 Tons of TNT (City Block level).
• Pilaf Arc Goku is upgraded from 0.774 Tons of TNT (Building level) to 1.99137855 Tons of TNT (Building level+).

If the latter,

Spoiler

• 21st Budōkai Goku is upgraded from 3.72 Tons of TNT (Large Building level) to 12.8536716 Tons of TNT (City Block level).
• Post-Korin Training Goku & Pilaf Arc Goku as an Oozaru are upgraded from 7.44 Tons of TNT (Large Building level+) to 25.7073432 Tons of TNT.
• Pilaf Arc Goku is upgraded from 0.774 Tons of TNT (Building level) to 2.57073432 Tons of TNT.

 

[Ednaxel2]

Large Building level to City Block level

I wouldn't give this rating, it's never implied or shown that he did training in between he defeat from Jackie chan and the start of the red ribbon army saga

 

[Greatsage13th]

I'm confused as to why it must be done in such a way.

 

[TheRustyOne]

I've been told we do not add the explosion and destruction values together. We simply use the highest value between them, assuming it's correct that is.

Obviously you cannot use both Tensile and Melting ends together, but I'm positive that's not what you meant.

I don't think melting is usable here. At least, this doesn't look like melting to me. I think the explosion end is the best one to use.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I can't find a vaporization value for steel.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Steel is an Iron Alloy, so it doesn't have a singular melting point.

Iron is the most abundant material of steel, as such iron vaporization is usually accepted.

However, considering the fact we can see the solid shape of the plane. I don't think vaporization is usable either.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The melting/vaporization of steel is also usually done via raw heat which doesn't always translate to how much blunt force trauma is generated. I know explosions are a combination of both, but gas ignition is mostly just the thermal energy output. And raw heat is limited in various areas compared to force.

Think the regular explosion yield calculation is the main one usable.

 

[Damage3245]

Yeah, just the explosive yield is what I'd go with here.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

It seems good

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Could violent fragmentation work, or...?

 

[Ednaxel2]

Could violent fragmentation work, or...?

We see chunks of the plane like part of a wing so no

 

[Flashlight237]

We simply use the highest value between them, assuming it's correct that is.

Not entirely true. Actually, we just picked which one worked best with what was presented to us.

The melting/vaporization of steel is also usually done via raw heat which doesn't always translate to how much blunt force trauma is generated. I know explosions are a combination of both, but gas ignition is mostly just the thermal energy output. And raw heat is limited in various areas compared to force.

Yeah, that is literally why I took issue with people claiming that smoke=vaporization, and I'm glad OP did not fully commit to that assumption.

Looking through the assessment throughout the thread, I can agree with others that explosive yield works best.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

We see chunks of the plane like part of a wing so no

The only visibly large fragment is the wing, which is not included in the volume used for the calculation.
This panel, this panel, this panel, and this scene from the anime depict the remnants of the plane as relatively small and scattered.

At worst, only fragmentation could be assumed.

 

[RenderGK]

bump

 

[Ednaxel2]

Bump

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Was this ever settled?

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

How about I throw my hat into this thread?

Even though we currently interpret "several times over" to mean Goku gains a 2x increase, is it really an only 2x increase?

Goku took at least six strikes (12 if you count the 'budda's as two) from Tao and got up from it saying "That really hurt" and with blood coming out from his mouth

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Goku is accepted as having grown twice as strong because the Super Exciting Guide explicitly said as such.
Originally, he was accepted as being three-times as strong based off the "several times" metric.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Goku is accepted as having grown twice as strong because the Super Exciting Guide explicitly said as such.
Originally, he was accepted as being three-times as strong based off the "several times" metric.

Yes, I understand that, I'm just suggesting that it could be more than twice as strong, it could be possibly at least six times as that's how much it took Tao to hurt Goku

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Punches don't stack like that

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Punches don't stack like that

"Stated that over 300 punches in his weakened state are comparable to 5 punches in his prime, making him 60 times stronger"

 

[Damage3245]

"Stated that over 300 punches in his weakened state are comparable to 5 punches in his prime, making him 60 times stronger"

Not a statement from Dragon Ball. Not sure why you'd bring it up here.

 

[Ednaxel2]

Wait so which value of the calc is the best one again?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

"Stated that over 300 punches in his weakened state are comparable to 5 punches in his prime, making him 60 times stronger"

That's the definition of damage stacking + not a Dragon Ball related statement.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Not a statement from Dragon Ball. Not sure why you'd bring it up here.

Because this is akin to what I'm trying to get at here, like how it would take All Might 5 punches in his prime but 300 punches in his weakened state, it took Tao one casual strike to overpower a pre-training Goku, but it took at least 6 full strikes to get a post-training Goku to say that it hurt

 

[Damage3245]

Because this is akin to what I'm trying to get at here, like how it would take All Might 5 punches in his prime but 300 punches in his weakened state, it took Tao one casual strike to overpower a pre-training Goku, but it took at least 6 full strikes to get a post-training Goku to say that it hurt

Check our Multiplier standards. We can't reason out multipliers from things like that.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Check our Multiplier standards. We can't reason out multipliers from things like that.

Another thing to keep in mind is that multipliers are not necessarily constant. For example: If a character is twice as fast as another at one point in time, that might not apply at any other point in time. Likewise if a technique is at one point twice as strong as another, that might change when the mastery of the techniques changes.

Aside from such considerations, if it comes to techniques which divide the power of an opponents attacks by something or multiplies the strength of an allies attacks feats will be necessary, regarding what the strongest attacks are for which this works. The reason for that can be easily seen by example: Doubling the power of a 10 Tons of TNT attack requires just the addition of further 10 Tons of TNT. Doubling the power of a 100 Tons of TNT attack requires adding 100 Tons of TNT on the other hand. That means doing that for the 100 Tons of TNT attack requires a far more powerful technique.

Lastly, multipliers will obviously only be used if they are not contradicted. A typical case of that would be if a character gets 10 times stronger, but fighters that were previously equal to it can still somehow keep up.

For combination attacks, similar standards to multipliers apply. It should not be assumed that a combination attack performed by multiple characters has Attack Potency equal to the sum of the participating characters Attack Potency unless there is specific evidence for it.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Because this is akin to what I'm trying to get at here, like how it would take All Might 5 punches in his prime but 300 punches in his weakened state, it took Tao one casual strike to overpower a pre-training Goku, but it took at least 6 full strikes to get a post-training Goku to say that it hurt

The All Might thing works like that cause of Nomu's Absorption Ability, not really applicable here

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

The All Might thing works like that cause of Nomu's Absorption Ability, not really applicable here

That's really just another way of saying Nomu is just really durable

I honestly think that Nomu's durability should just straight up say, "Up to Country level with Shock Absorption (Allows Nomu to withstand the recoil of his own punches. Was made to endure everything in All Might's arsenal. All Might stated that it would’ve taken five punches in his prime to blow Nomu away)"

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

That's really just another way of saying Nomu is just really durable

Nah, cause it had a limit.
If he was physically x60 above All Might's AP, then he wouldn't take any damage from High 6-C All Might's punches.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Nah, cause it had a limit.
If he was physically x60 above All Might's AP, then he wouldn't take any damage from High 6-C All Might's punches.

Isn't that basically was happened up until the 300 hits and Plus Ultra?

 

[Livinmeme]

Disagree, it is very obvious that Goku jumped before the plane hitted the ground, as we see him far away.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

as we see him far away.

Possibly because of the explosion?

 

[Ednaxel2]

Possibly because of the explosion?

Goku has a weakness to BFR abilities confirmed

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Disagree, it is very obvious that Goku jumped before the plane hitted the ground, as we see him far away.

Goku survives a plane crash

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

I think we should maybe get back on topic on whether "several times over" means a 2x multiplier or an at least 6x multiplier

 

[Damage3245]

Don't think I've seen "several times" be taken as a 6x multiplier before.

 

[Livinmeme]

Possibly because of the explosion?

Goku is several meters away, from the smoke, and the melted snow, coupled with the fact that there isn't any signs of destruction around Goku

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Don't think I've seen "several times" be taken as a 6x multiplier before.

But it doesn't mean that it isn't a valid interpretation also

 

[Ednaxel2]

But it doesn't mean that it isn't a valid interpretation also

an interpretation that can't be proven within the contexts of the story

We always have vague "several times" claims like that as 3x