7D Trinity Seven Downgrade

[Georredannea15]

So I believe that me and Trinity Seven wiki fandom interpret it correctly for the following reasons:
1. The fact that they put the archives and T7 mages in the normal world in comparison with the clouds and the heavenly adjudicators in the heaven heavily implied that the relationship between the archives and T7 mages has no difference from the relationship between the clouds and the heavenly adjudicators at all (That is, if the archives exist in a higher dimension than T7 mages, so do the clouds exist in higher dimension than the heavenly adjudicators).

4. So if my three points above are correct, then "something of higher dimension" can only mean "clouds of higher dimension", which in turn, means that they belong to the higher dimension as a part of it. So the 6-D clouds remain unchanged, the whole "clouds link to the gods" stuff will just simply mean that they link to the gods while still existing in their higher dimension rather than being contradicted by any chance (for example, you can have a 6-D being having immortality as long as 100-D still exist, they are connected but not leading to anti feat obviously).

Btw not every higher-dimensional realms can be high-dimensional to scale to AP, the important thing is that the extra axis of the higher-dimensional realm is significantly larger. Even statements like "higher-dimensional realm" are not considered higher-dimensional by default after the last HDE revision. It can still be on the same axis.

 

[Delta333]

I'm aware of the new HDE standard.

 

[Anzu_Hanashiro]

I think we should end the Downgrade Trinity Seven 7D Thread here because right here, cloud has been stated to be a different Dimension from Archive

Saying cloud is not at a higher D than archive is like saying they are both in the same D

@Rendynoc0unter

 

[Delta333]

Yea that scan outright confirms that saying the cloud is not in higher dimension than the archive is objectively wrong and contradicted to the entire plot line. As it already outright stated, the clouds exist closer to the akashic record than the archive, meaning that both can not be in the same dimension (they exist in their own circle which represents the seperate dimension), the fact that akashic record is the highest realm in the setting means the dimension of the clouds is higher than the archives.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Aren't Archive to Cloud are not qualified for qualitative transcendence?

As archive itself are 6D and cloud are just a layer deeper into the archive itself?

 

[Delta333]

Aren't Archive to Cloud are not qualified for qualitative transcendence?

As archive itself are 6D and cloud are just a layer deeper into the archive itself?

Because the archive was never 6-D in the first place.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Because the archive was never 6-D in the first place.

How?

 

[Delta333]

How?

Because it’s only stated to exist in the heaven, which is just one higher dimensional than the normal world.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Because it’s only stated to exist in the heaven, which is just one higher dimensional than the normal world.

So cloud is the 6D instead?

 

[Delta333]

So cloud is the 6D instead?

Yea, to be more clear the higher dimension where the clouds exist is 6-D, not the clouds themselves.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Yea, to be more clear the higher dimension where the clouds exist is 6-D, not the clouds themselves.

So how in God green earth Cloud is 7D if that the case?

 

[Delta333]

So how in God green earth Cloud is 7D if that the case?

Cloud is not 7-D tho, only the akashic record is.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Cloud is not 7-D tho, only the akashic record is.

Why the record is 7D?

 

[Delta333]

Why the record is 7D?

Because it’s the highest dimension in the verse, higher than even the dimensions of the archive and the clouds, like this.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Because it’s the highest dimension in the verse, higher than even the dimensions of the archive and the clouds, like this.

I don't see Qualitative Superiority there.

 

[Delta333]

I don't see Qualitative Superiority there.

The qualitative superiority comes from how the lower dimension is embedded within the higher dimension. Tho that’s just what presented in the previous thread, there’s new evidence about the plato stuff too, I’m about using it for the new justification.

 

[Rendynoc0unter]

I don't see Qualitative Superiority there.

Akashic is a place that transcends time and space.

Right now we are not discussing the Akashic, we are discussing the Clouds.

btw, I will continue responding to this thread later.

 

[Rendynoc0unter]

there’s new evidence about the plato stuff too, I’m about using it for the new justification.

Yes, but that's better later. I have also drafted a proposal on Plato.

After I finish my personal affairs, I will try to restore the 7D rating again with a new reason. (If I don't want to debate anymore (retired), maybe I'll give you my entire proposal, if you want).

 

[Delta333]

Yes, but that's better later. I have also drafted a proposal on Plato.

After I finish my personal affairs, I will try to restore the 7D rating again with a new reason. (If I don't want to debate anymore (retired), maybe I'll give you my entire proposal, if you want).

The current 7-D is valid so there is no need to restore anything, I can even write the plato stuff for the new justification right in this thread for the sake of avoiding to flood numerous threads for no reason.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

The qualitative superiority comes from how the lower dimension is embedded within the higher dimension. Tho that’s just what presented in the previous thread, there’s new evidence about the plato stuff too, I’m about using it for the new justification.

That isn't enough. There's literally zero evidence for QS.

 

[Delta333]

That isn't enough. There's literally zero evidence for QS.

I hope you understand that this thread is not about whether there is QS between dimensions or not but whether the clouds exist in the higher dimension or not (or just see Rendy reply right below you), I'm not here to debate about the wrong topic.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

I hope you understand that this thread is not about whether there is QS between dimensions or not but whether the clouds exist in the higher dimension or not (or just see Rendy reply right below you), I'm not here to debate about the wrong topic.

Cloud are indeed 6D, but akashic record are hell not.

The scans that you presented in the previous thread are just.

• People that can access cloud cannot calculate Akashic Record and saying it "Incalculable" which in itself never enough for 7D. You can say that abstract number are Incalculable and they aren't higher dimension.
• A single panel that says "A place where you can't reach." The context itself are brutalized, and this is the Arata that hasn't even reach the Cloud.
• The attack that transcends dimension never implied that it cross above 6D as the gods themselves should be 6D, this is even prevalent in Arata fight against various gods. As he obviously hurt them.
• Gods are super dimensional to the heavenly adjudicator who are 5D. Doesn't mean that the gods suddenly skip to 7D, they are explicitly 6D.
• Transcending all dimensions and time itself won't grant you higher dimension, instead it grant you BDE type 2. And those dimensions are not including the akashic itself as it will break the narrative of how gods are super dimensional.

 

[Delta333]

Cloud are indeed 6D

This is what I'm currently debating with Rendy, so, thanks for at least agreeing with me about this point I guess.

• People that can access cloud cannot calculate Akashic Record and saying it "Incalculable" which in itself never enough for 7D. You can say that abstract number are Incalculable and they aren't higher dimension.
• A single panel that says "A place where you can't reach." The context itself are brutalized, and this is the Arata that hasn't even reach the Cloud.
• The attack that transcends dimension never implied that it cross above 6D as the gods themselves should be 6D, this is even prevalent in Arata fight against various gods. As he obviously hurt them.
• Gods are super dimensional to the heavenly adjudicator who are 5D. Doesn't mean that the gods suddenly skip to 7D, they are explicitly 6D.
• Transcending all dimensions and time itself won't grant you higher dimension, instead it grant you BDE type 2. And those dimensions are not including the akashic itself as it will break the narrative of how gods are super dimensional.

This is not the point of this thread but I will try to answer some of them.
Firstly saying "incalculable" is not what I used to try to prove QS, but the main point is that the lower dimension being embedded within the higher one (the Akashic Record contains infinite timelines and there is quote about the tier 1 standard, you can find in the previous thread). If this does not satisfy you I will show some scans regarding the plato stuff, after all I also want to replace the current justification so doing that right now should not be a problem.
Secondly they don't simply just above 5-D heavenly adjudicators, as you said they trasncend all dimensions so this by default should include the dimension of cloud as well, which is 6-D.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Firstly saying "incalculable" is not what I used to try to prove QS, but the main point is that the lower dimension being embedded within the higher one (the Akashic Record contains infinite timelines and there is quote about the tier 1 standard, you can find in the previous thread). If this does not satisfy you I will show some scans regarding the plato stuff, after all I also want to replace the current justification so doing that right now should not be a problem.

Akashic being embedded by 6D space doesn't mean it is 7D unless the amount of 6D universe itself are uncountable infinite. Which the cloud isn't. That is literally the standard that I helped to make.

And Plato cave theory itself is only 6D as I looked into the akashic scans, the three goddess that Arata fight in the beginning of war are just a shadow. It is the reason why Arata and co can defeat them. (Arata and others should be 5D at this time.)

It isn't far fetched that a 6 dimensional being casted it's shadow unto the 5 dimensional space. Doesn't mean that Gods are 7D.

Secondly they don't simply just above 5-D heavenly adjudicators, as you said they trasncend all dimensions so this by default should include the dimension of cloud as well, which is 6-D.

Doesn't mean they are 6D, as spirit of eternity sword series character that transcends their 5D cosmology are still 5D, they just got BDE type 2.

Transcending all dimensions means there is no higher one after 6D, so you get BDE type 2 but not 7D.

 

[Delta333]

Akashic being embedded by 6D space doesn't mean it is 7D unless the amount of 6D universe itself are uncountable infinite. Which the cloud isn't. That is literally the standard that I helped to make.

And Plato cave theory itself is only 6D as I looked into the akashic scans, the three goddess that Arata fight in the beginning of war are just a shadow. It is the reason why Arata and co can defeat them. (Arata and others should be 5D at this time.)

It isn't far fetched that a 6 dimensional being casted it's shadow unto the 5 dimensional space. Doesn't mean that Gods are 7D.

I don't think the current standard required uncountable infinite dimensions within the higher dimension, as the higher dimension just needs to be non-trivial/significant in size.

Yea those goddess are just the shadows being casted by true forms from the higher dimension into the 5-D space. But my point is that the QS between dimensions should be no different from each other (for example, the dimension of cloud is stated to be "more archetypal" than that of the archives, so they follow the Plato principle as well despite not being the dimension of gods).

Doesn't mean they are 6D as spirit of eternity sword series character that transcends their 5D cosmology are 5D, they just got BDE type 2.

Transcending all dimensions means there is no higher one after 6D, so you get BDE type 2 but not 7D.

Transcending alone should not be enough, yea, but they exist in the higher dimension than 6-D cloud proving that they don't belong to 6-D.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

I don't think the current standard required uncountable infinite dimensions within the higher dimension, as the higher dimension just needs to be non-trivial/significant in size.

It need, just look at DMC downgrade.

Yea those goddess are just the shadows being casted by true forms from the higher dimension into the 5-D space. But my point is that the QS between dimensions should be no different from each other (for example, the dimension of cloud is stated to be "more archetypal" than that of the archives, so they follow the Plato principle as well despite not being the dimension of gods).

That doesn't mean there is any QS between Cloud and Akashic, you can say that is Platonic concept does exist in both planes but doesn't necessarily mean one is higher in QS than the other.

Transcending alone should not be enough, yea, but they exist in the higher dimension than 6-D cloud proving that they don't belong to 6-D.

There is no more higher dimension if you transcending all dimensions. That just breaking the logic, BDE type 2 is more suitable for this.

 

[Delta333]

It need, just look at DMC downgrade.

Don't follow so can't say much, but the justification is about to be replaced anyways.

you can say that is Platonic concept does exist in both planes but doesn't necessarily mean one is higher in QS than the other.

wdym?

There is no more higher dimension if you transcending all dimensions. That just breaking the logic, BDE type 2 is more suitable for this.

The verse says that Gods are super dimensional existences, plus it just simply means that this dimension transcends all other dimensions in the series.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

wdym?

Platonic concept exist in both the Cloud and Akashic, but that doesn't mean Akashic is higher in QS the Cloud.

The verse says that Gods are super dimensional existences, plus it just simply means that this dimension transcends all other dimensions in the series.

I can see that, but I don't think that includes the cloud itself. As Akashic are just a deeper layer of the Cloud.

And these needs more elaborate scans.

 

[Delta333]

Platonic concept exist in both the Cloud and Akashic, but that doesn't mean Akashic is higher in QS the Cloud.

I can see that, but I don't think that includes the cloud itself. As Akashic are just a deeper layer of the Cloud.

And these needs more elaborate scans.

I don't think our standard is that strict tbh, for example a verse with like, 29-D, doesn't need to prove that there is QS between dimensions for like 25 times at all. Just show some scans that some higher dimensions follow the same principle to imply that the rest is no different and that would be enough, at least that's what I see from many threads.

This scan outright shows that the akashic record exists in different dimensions from the cloud btw, they are just surrounding the akashic record.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

I don't think our standard is that strict tbh, for example a verse with like, 29-D, doesn't need to prove that there is QS between dimensions for like 25 times at all. Just show some scans that some higher dimensions follow the same principle to imply that the rest is no different and that would be enough, at least that's what I see from many threads.

This scan outright shows that the akashic record exists in different dimensions from the cloud btw, they are just surrounding the akashic record.

That because we never seen that Akashic Record literally called a 7D space in the manga lol.

And there still doesn't mean a QS between Cloud and Akashic, that map explain shit to non fans.

 

[Delta333]

That because we never seen that Akashic Record literally called a 7D space in the manga lol.

And there still doesn't mean a QS between Cloud and Akashic, that map explain shit to non fans.

It doesn't need to directly state as 7-D to be 7-D tho, that map just to shows that it exists in different dimensions from the cloud since you say that gods exist in the same dimension as the cloud while showing no proof for that.
Anyways this seems to massively derail from the OP lol.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

It doesn't need to directly state as 7-D to be 7-D tho, that map just to shows that it exists in different dimensions from the cloud since you say that gods exist in the same dimension as the cloud while showing no proof for that.
Anyways this seems to massively derail from the OP lol.

I take my word back about cloud and Akashic being almost the same.

They are different, but that doesn't mean that Akashic have QS over the Cloud.

I will let the staffs decide.

 

[Delta333]

Fine, at least we both agree that cloud and Akashic are not almost the same.

 

[Rendynoc0unter]

They are different, but that doesn't mean that Akashic have QS over the Cloud.

Sorry, the one without QS is the Cloud, not the Akashic.

Literally. World > Archive > Cloud > Akashic.

I can prove that the Akashic has QS, however, that is not the topic of this thread.

Platonic concept exist in both the Cloud

What, how can Plato be in the Clouds?

 

[The_Emperor4th]

Personally, I always interpreted that Gods are far superior to any being in the verse given that they are super higher dimensional beings, to the point that even the Adjudicators cannot defeat the gods. And since Gods literally scale to The Akashic Record, which implies that they are, at least could be 7D (has been accepted).

Saying that clouds are at the same level as Gods seems contradicts somewhere about what has been described in the verse itself imo. Like, the map scan for example, if we really take the scan seriously as the evidence.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Personally, I always interpreted that Gods are far superior to any being in the verse given that they are super higher dimensional beings, to the point that even the Adjudicators cannot defeat the gods. And since Gods literally scale to The Akashic Record, which implies that they are, at least could be 7D (has been accepted).

Saying that clouds are at the same level as Gods seems contradicts somewhere about what has been described in the verse itself imo. Like, the map scan for example, if we really take the scan seriously as the evidence.

They don't have the goddamn QS bro.

Sorry, the one without QS is the Cloud, not the Akashic.

Literally. World > Archive > Cloud > Akashic.

I can prove that the Akashic has QS, however, that is not the topic of this thread.


What, how can Plato be in the Clouds?

Platonism - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Rendynoc0unter]

Platonism - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

try to provide a quote.

 

[Rendynoc0unter]

The qualitative superiority between dimensions has already been proved in the previous thread, what are you talking about? If you already agreed with tier 1 of T7 then this should not be an issue.

Read whatever I write above again, I have proved that higher dimension in the verse has qualitative superiority, so if you want to say that cloud is not higher dimensional, try to debunk that first.

Yes, QS has been proven, but only in Heaven (Archives) and also Akashic, and currently I have not seen any QS in the Cloud, you will have to prove it. I agree with tier 1 T7, just not 7D for now (following your thread).

The fact that Selina and Mira can use the cloud doesn't disprove anything at all, if anything it just further proves that the amount of cloud users are not limited to a certain number, as we already know the original members of arbitrators don't include them at all.

Please refute with scans from the Manga, not from the fandom wiki.

 

[The_Emperor4th]

They don't have the goddamn QS bro.

I’m not even sure what you mean by this.

 

[Rendynoc0unter]

Because it’s the highest dimension in the verse, higher than even the dimensions of the archive and the clouds, like this.

The qualitative superiority comes from how the lower dimension is embedded within the higher dimension. Tho that’s just what presented in the previous thread, there’s new evidence about the plato stuff too, I’m about using it for the new justification.

Sorry, you can't rely on just one feats.

Looking at your assumptions, you're indirectly saying that each layer is a higher dimension, and has QS. That's an extreme assumption.