The Battle of the Genocide Bosses

[GyroNutz]

aka Sans vs Undyne the Undying

Before we start, I need to get something off my chest. Undyne the Undying is one of the coolest bosses in my opinion. She perfectly demonstrates the role reversal in play in the genocide route, and defies the player's expectations and give them one hell of a fight. I'd go as far as to say it's one of my favourite boss fights in RPGs. However, on this site, she annoys me greatly. One of the best fighters, and yet she's incompatible with nearly every other opponent on the site due to her tier varying from 7-C to 2-B. That's right. She could literally be infinitely more powerful or complete fodder to every opponent she faces. However I think I found a match that could finally work with her...

Sans and Undyne are both in character but willing to kill, Undyne starts as Undyne the Undying.

Speed is equalised. Who wins and why?

Bonus round: Which of their battle themes is superior?

Sans: 5

Undyne the Undying: 4

Inconclusive: 2

 

[GyroNutz]

bump

 

[Thatoneguy78]

I think the one with the glowing eye wins

 

[GyroNutz]

nah, it's totally the one who changes your soul's colour

 

[Mariogoods]

I think the one who always puts unnatural smile in his face and always dogdes attacks will wins. ''heya.''

 

[GyroNutz]

on a serious note, for what reasons would he win?

 

[Mariogoods]

The Smily Trashbag could dodge her attacks (And he can even teleport), and he can uses many bones and blasters shooting sushi which constainly damages the strong fish. When the one Alphys is crush in is focuing on one direction, the weakest enemy is just in her back.

 

[GyroNutz]

bump

 

[TheArsenal1212]

Sans via better mobility (teleportation) and intelligence edge. Plus he would almost certainly get under Undyne's skin given what we see in the game and absed of the personalities of the characters

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Alright, I'm gonna be the one to disagree here. Undyne's Green Mode would absolutely lock Sans down. From there, it's only a matter of time as Sans will run out of stamina way faster. To address some other points, sure Sans could teleport Undyne's attack back at her, but his stamina is still his downfall.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Undyne should take this. Undyne can keep tanking his attacks for a long time and she could even outlast him

 

[DMB_1]

Undyne should take this. Undyne can keep tanking his attacks for a long time and she could even outlast him

That's true: Sans fought someone with 92 HP, while Undyne has 23.000 HP.

 

[GyroNutz]

I thought HP is generally considered as game mechanics?

 

[Ahmed_Sakr_Salman]

i dont see the point of this fight

sans has been clearly mintioned as the weakest monster of the underground even weaker than monster kid. thats mean there is a wide gap between monster kid and sans makes monster kid completely unaffected with sans attacks

KARMA also wont work since the monsters are kind people

blue mod is not going to be useful with any monster since they are so durable

.the only thing that sans has here is the speed . which is going to be questionable since every monster are using danmaku on another word undyne doesnt need any magicalgirl transformation to win this encounter a day ago

 

[GyroNutz]

Karma doesn't work based on sins. That's a fan idea. KR is just a form of soul poison that negates conventional durability. Blue mode should affect monster's souls as it hasn't been shown not to, especially since it affected LV 19 Frisk who is far more powerful than any other monster.

Speed is equalised

Sans has the advantages in intelligence, mobility (can teleport himself and his attacks) and possibly greater danmaku.

Undyne has the advantages in likely greater stamina and the fact that any of her attacks can one shot.

With that out of the way, who wins and why

 

[Ahmed_Sakr_Salman]

Ôû¬yeah about that karma thing . well I really heard lots of people saying that .but they didn't really explain how does this fits on the game ...I mean you really need a proof that an effect called "karmic retribution" doesn't based on the sins

Ôû¬and the blue mode would affect the monsters but won't be able to killing them by ragdolling via durability

Ôû¬that's what I am talking about. sans danmaku won't affect on the other monsters via durability

 

[GyroNutz]

can you find a source where it was officially called 'karmic retribution'?

 

[Ahmed_Sakr_Salman]

a blog from azathroth about that

also( karmic retribution/ karma/You felt your sins crawling on your back) its dosent really make a diffrence.

 

[GyroNutz]

it says in the blog that 'karmic retribution' is a fan name lol.

not only is that blog horribly outdated, nor is an official source of information, but there's no mention of 'KARMA' being based on sins, LV or the like on Sans' profile.

 

[Ahmed_Sakr_Salman]

1-maybe you are right at this point.but thats not change that it doesnt make a diffrance

2-its outdated via the downgrade thats mean the we cant include this.however i still dosent see anything wrong with what azathroth said

3-well that dosent prove that my point is wrong

 

[GyroNutz]

Even if you were right, we use what's on character's profiles in vs threads.

Though if you were right, there should be an official source that backs your claim up. Please show this to me.

 

[Ahmed_Sakr_Salman]

yeah say that to the team who dosent want to wipe Broly-ku from sans's "notable victories" you know. SAVE and LOAD dosent have any official source about how does it work too .but people still deal with it as "timelines manpulation"

 

[GyroNutz]

Two wrongs don't make a right. And just because they haven't got around to removing it yet doesn't mean they don't want to. It can take a long time to get matchups removed and added.

SAVE and LOAD is mentioned numerous times by knowledgable characters such as Sans and Flowey. There's more than enough in-game evidecne to figure out how it works.

Anyway this is derailing now. If you want to get the KARMA thing added to Sans' profile then please make a CRT thread for it.

 

[DMB_1]

I thought HP is generally considered as game mechanics?

The entire reason as of why Sans is considered the weakest Monster is becauseof his HP and Attacks. And a lot of game mechanics in Undrtale are canon.

 

[GyroNutz]

His HP is never revealed in-game; he's considered the weakest due to his ATK and DEF both being 1. And, oh btw, check stats aren't game mechanics.

 

[GyroNutz]

bump

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

Inconclussive, if Sans gets tired too soon he will most likely use his special attack.

Both have resistance to soul manipulation so Green/Blue Mode won't be so effective.

Undyne has (likely) greater combat experience as she defeated Asgore, who was actually dodging her attacks (Though we don't know how good is Asgore at dodging) and her spears should allow her to parry Sans' bones, but Gaster Blasters will be a problem.

Probably more reasons but that's everything I can think right now.

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

Also I get how you feel, I really want Undyne to fight Aradia Megido.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Their resistance does not counter green and blue mode. It allows them to tank attacks as if they were to the body insted of the soul.

Also, undyne can outlast by tanking all of sanses attacks

 

[Jimboydejuan12]

Nah why not take my vote both?

screw myself do throw off going Vote for Inconclusive FRA.

 

[Bowser-us]

Inconclusive

 

[DMB_1]

His HP is never revealed in-game; he's considered the weakest due to his ATK and DEF both being 1. And, oh btw, check stats aren't game mechanics.

Thy are: the entire reason as of why Asriel is so high into 2-B (and before thdowngrade he was even 2-A) is because his stts were treted as "infinite".

 

[GyroNutz]

Inconclusive

you're gonna have to give some reasons first


Also, check stats are not game mechanics, as they are different from the actual stats used in-game. It's like power levels; they're a way of telling, in a non-linear way, how strong characters are compared to others. Yes, Asriel is so high into 2-B due to having 'infinite' attack and defence. No, this is not due to his in-game stats, but his check stats, and furthermore does not prove that check stats are game mechanics. This is even explained in Azathoth's blog (this part is still relevant)

 

[GyroNutz]

bump

 

[BruceTheBatman]

Sans FRA

 

[GyroNutz]

bump

 

[GyroNutz]

bump

 

[GyroNutz]

bump

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Sans fra.

 

[GyroNutz]

bump