2-B is multiversal, Chara IS NOT MULTIVERSAL.

[Seen220]

(Yes, I'm already expecting to receive a lot of hate for mentioning this)

(yes i didnt know where to post this. thanks Gallantknight X)


Chara Dreemurr, is the "Demon" Child, the fallen human in the game, Undertale, a popular indie game that was made in 2015. She appears at the end of the Genocide route to "finish off this world". She then resets the TIMELINE (not timelines). Of course, you can wait 10 minutes to restore the TIMELINE (once again, not timelines). In exchange for your soul (which will prevent you from completing the True Pacifist ending).

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Tiering_System#2-B:_Multiverse_level

Chara is 2-B, or: Multiverse level Characters who can create and/or destroy 1001 to any higher finite number of universal 4-dimensional space-time continuums.

Canon wise, Chara's best feat was to completely reset ONE timeline, the same timeline over and over again. The only way her power would be "Multiversal" would be if she had this power to destroy more than the same timeline (Frisk escaping the underground).

 

[Kaltias]

Have you read this?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

It is never referred to as a single timeline when it happens though. It's always "The World" or "The Game".

It is very unlikely to be a single timeline, as when Asriel destroyed a timeline, the integrity of the game was generally left untouched. Everything kept going as usual. When Chara did their feat however, everything died. Not even resetting was possible.

 

[Seen220]

Just read this (twice to make sure).

"Why trust Sans with this? Well, not only is he the only non-Determination user who actually knows about SAVEs, LOADs, and the resets, but he's also implied to be a scientist, have faint memories from other timelines, and has what seems to be a broken time machine in a room he only trusts Frisk to enter when he's 100% sure they're a time traveller. So yeah." -Azathoth

Once again, the same timeline is being reseted over and over again. Sans secret room was supposed to (possibly) be a joke that Sans is Ness. Sans is just considered "Wise" in this case. Multiverses would be those (crappy) AUs like Underfell, Underswap, and 200+ more fandom AUs.

Same events = Same timeline =/= Multiversal. I do like how Azathoth didnt use fandom sources however .

Sans gets WIPED when a True Reset occours. Making it completly even with almost every other UT character.

(PS: this was also commented on the old thread)

Have you read this?

 

[Seen220]

It is never referred to as a single timeline when it happens though. It's always "The World" or "The Game".
It is very unlikely to be a single timeline, as when Asriel destroyed a timeline, the integrity of the game was generally left untouched. Everything kept going as usual. When Chara did their feat however, everything died. Not even resetting was possible.

Unlikely =/= 100% True

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Multiverse is simply different timelines. Sans acknowledges the existence of other timelines and other Sans-es.

 

[Seen220]

Multiverse is simply different timelines. Sans acknowledges the existence of other timelines and

Its the same timeline being RESETTED XD.

 

[GallantKnight_X]

@seen try to be polite with staff and other users. Attitude won't get a point across

 

[DarkLordofShadows]

Sans's quote:

>"our reports showed a massive anomaly in the timespace continuum. timelines jumping left and right, stopping and starting... until suddenly, everything ends."

Mettaton and Alphys's quotes:

>"[Mettaton]: CORRECT. DR. ALPHYS HAS A CRUSH ON... THE UNKNOWABLE. YOU SEE, ALPHYS BELIEVES THERE IS SOMEONE OUT THERE. SOMEONE WATCHING HER. SOMEONE SHE THINKS IS "CUTE" AND "INTERESTING." HELLO, THEORETICAL PERSON. DR. ALPHYS LIKES YOU. TOO BAD YOU ARE NOT REAL. *DERISIVE LAUGHTRACK*.


>[Alphys] H-hey, I've done research about this! There are alternate universes out there! S-someday, maybe, I could meet them...


>[Mettaton] YOU SAID THE EXACT SAME THING ABOUT "MEW MEW KISSY CUTIE." BUT I'LL GIVE YOU THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT. PERSON, IF YOU'RE OUT THERE... HOW ABOUT GIVING US A SIGN, RIGHT NOW?"

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Proof? Sans' wording very much implies that timelines are being consumed. They wouldn't be "consumed" if it was the same being reset over and over again.

 

[Metal875]

Since this is on-topic, I just wanna say something. It's a debunk I made a long while back.

Chara destroyed the game. The game contained a multitude of timelines, from Flowey resetting the game until he knew every outcome, to Sans canonically killing Chara 13 times; then counting his three other bonus statements, 16 timelines had to of been created during that boss fight. As for Flowey, he states he knew everything, but could never predict Chara. He read every book and burned every book? 2 timelines, one for reading, one for burning, and Pacifist and Genocide routes. 2 x 2 = 4. He then states he won every game, and lost every game. All games in Undertale include Bridge Seed [contributes 7 timelines, one for each bridge successfully built and failed on and one for Genocide], Hotland Puzzles [contributes 36 timelines, one for each report on the quiz, pass and fail, and passing and failing each puzzle], Ruin Puzzles [contributes 14 timelines, one for success and one for fail on each route], Snowdin Puzzles [contributes 24 timelines, one for pass and fail, and one for each ending of the Ball Game], Thundersnail [contributes 20 timelines, one for each placement of each snail, and one for when the yellow snail almost wins and for each route] and Waterfall Puzzles [contributes 16 timelines, one for pass and fail and for each route]. Adding all previous timelines, including Sans, we get 137 timelines thus far. Continuing, Flowey states he's appeased everyone and killed everyone. There are 94 monsters in the game, and with Pacifist and Genocide, 94 x 2 = 188. 188 + 137 = 325 timelines. Next, Flowey says "Sets of numbers, lines of dialogue... I've seen them all." Assuming sets of numbers means sets of damage, there are 9 weapons in the game. 9 x 2 = 18. 94 characters x the 3 routes of different dialogue = 282. Adding all previous timelines, we end up with a grand total of 625 timelines. Therefore, Chara is NOT 2-B. And while this would almost guarantee Chara would be Multi-Universe level, well...

Sans states that timelines stop and start. Stopping (Here's Merriam Webster if you don't like Dictionary.com) pertains to the act of ceasing or discontinuing. These timelines, after a reset, possibly disappear. Thus, when Chara destroyed the game at the very end, it's very plausible that there weren't 625 timelines.

Now someone is bound to bring up Asriel purging the timeline, meaning that Chara had to have destroyed multiple. Well, Asriel HADN'T purged the timeline UNTIL he used Hypergoner. Why is THIS important? Well, it would be a validated argument... IF Asriel's base form had truly purged the timeline when the blue background emerged. But, there's no indication he did that.

When Chara destroyed the game, it became a black abyss... when the Angel of Death purged the timeline, what was it...? Yup. A black abyss. Not to mention that no one except the one that had destroyed the timeline could reset it. In this case, Asriel purged it, but could continuously reset, so he could torture Frisk. Chara was also the only one that could reset after purging the timeline/game.

To summarize. The problems I see with Chara being 2-B are that, one, we don't know for sure if Chara had destroyed all the timelines in the game. And two, we don't know if there are over 1,000 timelines.

 

[Seen220]

Until the timeline ends

Same timeline. Rip.

Tell me: How is the same timeline different? (Its not lol)

I gave you the answer, and you are still arguing

 

[Arigarmy]

It is never referred to as a single timeline when it happens though. It's always "The World"

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Sans says that timeline s starts and stops. If it was the same, it would be "The timeline starts and stops".

Asriel explicitly said that he was going to purge the timeline when he used Hypergoner. Assuming that he did it only when he went Angel of Death is baseless.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Should I highlight this?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

No. We've been through this countless times. It's not important enough for a highlight.

 

[Seen220]

"Almost Garuntee". so close! Yet so far...

Also random puzzles and math dont proove that these are different timelines. Those are just actions

 

[Metal875]

Asriel explicitly said that he was going to purge the timeline when he used Hypergoner. Assuming that he did it only when he went Angel of Death is baseless.

You clearly didn't read my comment. I said he didn't do it as his first form, and I said he did it with Hypergoner. Considering that, after he used Hypergoner, it was a black abyss and he was the the Angel of Death. It was the very next thing shown after he used Hypergoner, thus, it's reasonable to assume that's what Hypergoner did, was made it a black abyss. This is the same thing Chara did, and Asriel only purged "the timeline."

 

[Metal875]

Sans says that timeline s starts and stops. If it was the same, it would be "The timeline starts and stops".

This proves my point. The timelines all stop and start. How can we say all the timelines were there when Chara destroyed the game?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

The very next thing after Hypergoner isn't the black void. That only happens when Asriel goes Angel of Death. Do note that in the Angel of Death phase, it mentions the World ending. Yet the timeline had already been purged by then.

 

[Kaltias]

Stop =/= cease to exist. I stopped my car. This doesn't mean that my car doesn't exist anymore. It's clearly referred to SAVE and LOAD

Also that's not how you calc possibilities. Possibilities aren't X+Y+X. They are X*Y*Z

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

The very next thing after Hypergoner isn't the black void. That only happens when Asriel goes Angel of Death. Do note that in the Angel of Death phase, it mentions the World ending. Yet the timeline had already been purged by then.

This is correct.

 

[Metal875]

The very next thing after Hypergoner isn't the black void. That only happens when Asriel goes Angel of Death. Do note that in the Angel of Death phase, it mentions the World ending. Yet the timeline had already been purged by then.

Hmm... yeah, I looked it back up, and after the Hypergoner, it wasn't the black abyss. So that's true. However, this only worsens the situation... the timeline went into a black abyss when Asriel purged it, and it says the world is ending. That could very well mean that Chara hadn't purged everything, rather just that one timeline.

 

[GallantKnight_X]

If this goes any further with Seen220 ignoring given proof and continuosly strawmanning, this thread should be closed also considering the fact he said that he wanted to see salt from the thread which is something that trolls tend to aim for.

 

[Seen220]

Sans says that timeline s starts and stops. If it was the same, it would be "The timeline starts and stops".
Asriel explicitly said that he was going to purge the timeline when he used Hypergoner. Assuming that he did it only when he went Angel of Death is baseless.

Once again THIS IS THE SAME TIMELINE. Its like the butterfly effect.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Also, on the subject of timelines "stopping", as Kaltias said, this does not mean they no longer exist. Notice how Sans' statement splits timelines "stopping" and timelines "ending" into two different things. One represents a distortion in the timeline. The other represents it ceasing to exist.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

There is a certain irony in the fact that you accuse us of using the same argument, when you do the very same. What IS your proof that it is but a single timeline?

 

[Metal875]

Also, on the subject of timelines "stopping", as Kaltias said, this does not mean they no longer exist. Notice how Sans' statement splits timelines "stopping" and timelines "ending" into two different things. One represents a distortion in the timeline. The other represents it ceasing to exist.

That's true... I disagree with Kaltias' analogy, but Sans separating the two does imply they are different.

Though, I have one question. How do we know there are more than 1,000 timelines?

 

[Seen220]

If this goes any further with Seen220 ignoring given proof and continuosly strawmanning, this thread should be closed also considering the fact he said that he wanted to see salt from the thread which is something that trolls tend to aim for.

I gave you 3 reasons (that people dont understand?)

1.most likely =/= True

2. Chara resets the same timeline. Its THE SAME TIMELINE EVERY TIME. An example of a multiverse would be those fandoms combining with those other fandoms. Different actions, characters, etc;

3. Butterfly effect

I simply just pointed this out, and you cant handle that this info is simply the answer to this.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Flowey reset "countless times" according to himself. That's not even counting all the potential humans who could have spammed reset throughout all of history.

 

[Seen220]

Flowey reset "countless times" according to himself. That's not even counting all the potential humans who could have spammed reset throughout all of history.

1.most likely =/= True

2. Chara resets the same timeline. Its THE SAME TIMELINE EVERY TIME. An example of a multiverse would be those fandoms combining with those other fandoms. Different actions, characters, etc;

3. Butterfly effect

I simply just pointed this out, and you cant handle that this info is simply the answer to this.

Ill be posting this for someone who just cant handle the truth. This is all in the same world, same timeline.

 

[Kaltias]

Also that's a veeeery lowballed way to calculate the outcomes. Flowey is basically saying that he experienced every combination. Not just one time. He could have made a whole run where he killed Tsunderplane, one where he killed Muffet, and one where he killed both. This would be well above 1000, when you factor in every monster

 

[Kaltias]

The timelines don't need to be completely different universes each time. Even a marginal difference is enough

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

That's true... I disagree with Kaltias' analogy, but Sans separating the two does imply they are different.

Though, I have one question. How do we know there are more than 1,000 timelines?

We don't know the exact number. However, from the way it's talked about and the numerous possibilities cycled through, there is an exponentially higher chance the number is above that 1000 threshold than below.

 

[Seen220]

The timelines don't need to be completely different universes each time. Even a marginal difference is enough

Once again, its the same timeline being resseted. Its an illusion that theres more than one timeline.

 

[Kaltias]

Just going to point out that even 7! is more than enough to break into multiversal. If it's the number of combination what we are considering (which it is) we would have to actively struggle to stay under 1000

 

[Metal875]

@Kaltias: Good point, though I wanted to go for the lower possibilities to make sure I accounted for it.

@Azathoth: Ah, okay. That's why they're only "Likely 2-B." Okay then, I can agree with that. Thank you for explaining it.

But one other thing. If Asriel purged one timeline, and it was implied to have been only one, what with "The World is ending," then how do we know the black abyss made by Chara's purge was different from Asriel's?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

The game crashed, was rendered unplayable, and SAVE & LOAd wasn't a thing anymore after Chara did her thing.

If Chara just destroyed the timeline, The Player wouldn't have been stuck in that void forever.

 

[Metal875]

@Saikou: That makes sense. But the player was technically stuck in Asriel's void, since he was the only one who could reset. Same with Chara. Granted, the game doesn't crash, and if you were to exit and go back on, there wouldn't be any void. So I can see the meaningful difference.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

They were stuck only after Asriel went Angel of Death, not after Hypergoner.