2-A Azura, the revenge.

[Cropfist]

I have not seen Reppuzan post in ages.

 

[Bobsican]

@Ant I already contacted them and no one of them has replied here so far.

 

[Antvasima]

Reppuzan was active again very recently.

In any case, given that Medeus disagrees with this, and the original arguments were presented by a banned troll, you will need to ask other administrators and discussion moderators for input as well, even if they are not familiar with Fire Emblem.

 

[Leon_Help4]

After reading thru the thread, i think it is kinda clear this Loki character is talking about the "Dream World' the young girl azura created, since its the main focus.

Don't know a lot about Fire Emblem at all other than smash, but if a construct was stated to have infinite timelines inside it twice, it is 2-A.

 

[Bobsican]

Went ahead and asked some of the admins, I would also ask discussion mods, but I don't want to disturb everyone that much

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

So I'm mostly just going to comment on the evidence provided in the OP, as that's the only context that it gives me in regards to this.

Taking the dialogue as objective fact at face value, nothing in the dialogue implies, let alone objectively confirms, that the characters are talking about alternate universes. The best statement is that there are "infinite worlds", although this could simply mean that the dream is an infinite universe with infinite worlds inside of it.

I'm being very generous in the above paragraph though - a lot seems to be left out here. Maybe it's because the OP and supporters are just assuming the people vetting this thread are already familiar with the verse, but most of the admins called here don't seem to have such knowledge. So, I'd like a few things to be substantiated with evidence for more context:

• What makes each of these individual characters aware of the exact nature of the dream world they're in, and how can some of them possibly understand that there's an infinite number of 'worlds'? What says that they don't know an exact number of worlds, and are saying 'infinite' because they've personally seen no end to the number of them?

• I'm unsure what makes this feat 2-A or even Low 2-C. Regular humans in, say, the Matrix, are not labelled as Tier 2 for existing above a digital universe/world, so I'm genuinely wondering what makes a world being part of someone's dream at that tier. I'm aware we've had discussions on layered realities and dream worlds previously, and from my understanding of them there's attributes that distinguish between Matrix-like scenarios and Azatoth-like scenarios. Inception might be a better comparison, are regular humans in that movie Tier 2 as well?

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out Dargoo. It is very appreciated.

 

[Bobsican]

Hans created an entire blog for this stuff, it may be a good idea to take a look This replies to all the questions you have, Dargoo.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Hans created an entire blog for this stuff, it may be a good idea to take a lookThis replies to all the questions you have, Dargoo.

So I'm just going to start with the first bit on there.

You seem to be drawing conclusions that aren't supported by your evidence. You never seemed to adress that "world" is reffering to universes in the slightest, and didn't really consider the possibility that 'world' was reffering to planets within other universes. Your conclusion seems to mostly draw from one statement only:

"from another world. You could consider her just one possibility"

Although you're kind of conflating two separate thoughts here. 'She's from another world' and 'she's just one possibility' most likely means she's from the same planet in a different timeline, and this timeline is one possibility of many.

So I fail to see how these feats are Tier 2 given your explanation blog. A vital part of Tier 2 statistics is destroying the space-time continuum of entire universes, while these quotes are not establishing that they are reffering to entire universes.

Additionally, linguistically, even assuming the terms were being used in the way you say they are being used, a 2-3 characters using a word a certain way does not mean that every other character is using the word in the same way. 'World' is such a flexible word that can be applied to so many concepts that if you sort of need to establish that the relevant quotes you use later on are specifically referring to universes.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It's been discussed multiple times in other threads, but the various "Worlds" in Fire Emblem Heroes are consistently described and shown to be alternate timelines. But, I don't remember the full details and I'm a bit too tied up to dig through the previous threads.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

It's been discussed multiple times in other threads, but the various "Worlds" in Fire Emblem Heroes are consistently described and shown to be alternate timelines.

And the three-four scans I was linked that supports that claim doesn't actually prove that, so if you have anything substantial to add I'm all ears.

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Okay I've been gone for a hot minute, what's been decided on?

 

[Bobsican]

Okay I've been gone for a hot minute, what's been decided on?

Nothing so far, agreement to 2-A is all that's missing now.

What do you think?

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

Didn't Dargoo reject this?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

My issue is more with the justifications of the cosmology blog itself (I feel like the evidence doesn't add up with the conclusions at all) that leads to the conclusions of the OP here, although I'm currently discussing the matter offsite with the original author of that blog. Said discussion is on pause for now though until I'm done implementing revisions with Prototype.

So I rejected this in a roundabout way I guess, although that roundabout way would also reject the current statistics on a lot of the FEH profiles that are currently up.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for helping out.

 

[Bobsican]

I guess for now we should wait for Dargoo overall in that case.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose so.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I'm fine with you guys discussing this in the context that the cosmology blog is correct for now, as I'd rather not put a hold on this revision indefinitely if I end up getting busy down the line.

 

[Bobsican]

Well, there's really not much to discuss, everyone else but DDM disagreed with the changes.

So really, the only thing missing would be your input Dargoo.

This can wait, just don't forget about it after your other pending revisions, okay?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Yeah, no worries. I have an actual queue now, after Prototype it's MtG, after that it's likely SCP, after that I'll try and fit in this.

 

[Bobsican]

Very well, thanks.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

 

[Leon_Help4]

I still think that it is 2-A since after buying an account and playing the game, the characters *continously* use the term World to refer to timelines.

 

[Infiniverse_of_Oblivion]

"I agree with Dream World Azura being 2-A. It is stated that there are infinite timelies in the dream world twice."

 

[Leon_Help4]

Why the quotations?

 

[Leon_Help4]

Well, from what i've seen, most still agree with 2-A Azura, at least just in her Dream World version with a clear cut 2-A creation feat.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Like I said earlier I'm totally fine with continuing this CRT independent of my opinion; my issues are with larger cosmology stuff on the blog that's technically already accepted.

 

[Bobsican]

Well, as said before, input has been given already and everyone but DDM is fine with 2-A, there's really nothing else to discuss beyond maybe just taking the revisions as fine for now and change the profile accordingly.

 

[Leon_Help4]

Sounds good to me. The majority and a knowledgable member agree witth the tiering upgrade.

 

[Eficiente]

Quick question from someone with no knowledge of this, what makes this dreams real and not unquantifiable fiction?

 

[Leon_Help4]

From what i've read, Shareena pinches her cheek in the dream world and said it hurt (To kinda express it is a real realm), and Adult Azura was forcefully BFR'd and is also aware of herself in this other Azura's dream. Loki is also inside the dream trying to convince Young Azura to join up with her. Yeah, here is the script. https://fireemblem.fandom.com/wiki/Adrift/Script

• Azura: I...remember this world. It was a long time ago. I saw it in a dream... I was a child, so I don't remember it very well. I am sure, however, that this is the same world I dreamt.
• Sharena: That you dreamt? Meaning...what? That we're in your dream right now? Ouch! Well, it hurts when I pinch myself.
• Azura: Even so...
• Alfonse: If it is as you say and it's a dream, whose is it? Is it your dream, Azura, that we have been pulled into?
• Anna: I find it strange. I am completely aware of myself. If I'm in someone else's dream, how can that be?
• Azura: I don't understand it either. I do have some dragon's blood in my veins. And that dragon had the power to glimpse the strands of futures yet to come... Maybe that has something to do with it.

 

[Eficiente]

Bad answer, I will elaborate why later.

 

[Leon_Help4]

I am confused about what you meant by that, but i found some more statements about it.

• Loki: You, cocooned away inside your current self, growing peacefully... I would call that a miracle. How many times would the coins have to come up tails to satisfy you? Once might not be enough for you, I know. But we're talking about time stretching out to infinity... It would happen again and again and again... And in the future, more and more of you might come to exist...an infinite number of you.
• Azura (Young): Who says that time is infinite? The world could end.
• Loki: Hee-hee. What you say is true. But this world contains an infinite number of worlds within it... And if the world has no bounds, we can toss coins for eternity.

Azura: Deep inside my heart...I wanted to run from it all. And then I had a dream... Brothers and sisters who stood up for me, friends who understood my pain... Everyone could feel what I was going through. Life was suddenly easy. That world I wished for...I think we might be there right now.

--------

• Loki: Azura, what is it that you desire? Tell me—anything you want. Any wish can become real.
• Azura (Young): ...
• Loki: There is an infinite number of worlds here, my dear... Any world you can conceive of must exist. You can summon any version of yourself that you desire. All you have to do is listen to one little request of mine. It isn't much...
• Azura (Young): ...
• Loki: With your blood and my power... Everything will be just as we wish it... Azura. Tell me what it is that you desire...
• Azura (Young): I want...a flying ship. I'll fly away with everyone. We can go wherever we like. Nothing bad will happen...

• Loki: And that's that, I suppose. Oh well. We have eternity to play...
• Alfonse: So this was all your doing. You lured in a child! What's your game, Loki?

 

[Eficiente]

As I see it, this all seems like a product of Immersion, creating the setting, getting real harm inside it and stuff there interacting with the real world are all things that absolutely apply to that power without giving any significant tier. If anything some of the things Leon Help4 pointed out help to support this

• Azula doesn't much know what's going on.
• People hurt themselves to test the reality in which they are.
• Azula speculates her dream to have something to do with the power to glimpse the strands of futures yet to come, which sounds like Precognition, which in turn would make things just as fake (the glimpse of the future=/=the future itself, at all).
• Loki telling Azula that she cocooned away inside her current self.

Before someone may say that since this is a super big dream it should give a real tier, that doesn't hold any water. A lot of settings people creates with Immersion are also pretty big, they have suns, stars and even other universe, having a certain specifically big size doesn't make fiction any more than fiction because that's not how logic works.

 

[Antvasima]

Eficiente does have a good point.

 

[Eficiente]

Idk if Azula applies to the new Reality Equalizatio page, but from what I see here and what I remember from the other thread where Azzy was, she seems pretty normal in reality and with big feats in fiction that should only apply to her there.