(GRACE) Flowey picks on a hedgehog

[StrymULTRA]

Well, Low 2-C Flowey is a thing, so...

Photoshop Flowey and Base Silver are used, speed is equalized, and starting distance is 10 meters.

Flowey: 7 (ShakeResounding, Arkansalter2, TheOrangeGuy09, Fezzih_007, Dragonite007, Eseseso, Detective_Blizzard)

Pre-Gen Silver: 1 (Theuser789)

Incon:

 

[ShakeResounding]

Ayyyy, Low 2-C Flowey is REAL!

Silver:

• Silver's Type 4 Acausality regarding being "decoupled from time" aids in his biggest issue; SAVE and LOAD. At the very least, Silver will remember any Resets performed and likely be able to adjust easily to it after the first one throws him for a loop (heh).
• Silver's reliance on Psychokinesis over being a physical fighter aids in holding off Flowey's relentless Danmaku and potentially allow for ragdolling Flowey himself, especially since Silver lacks the means to heal himself across a fight as Frisk often does.
• Superior Range via Super Warp Rings and Chronos Control allows for Silver some minor control of the battlefield. I say minor because Flowey can just Reset prior to whatever Silver pulls, negating it entirely.

Flowey:

• SAVE and LOAD allows Flowey free reign over the timeline, resetting himself/the battlefield to optimal conditions for himself, even if it doesn't work on Silver directly.
• His greater control over the timeline practically nullifies being targeted with Chronos Control
• Existence Erasure may be an issue if Flowey tries to use this offensively on Silver, a solid wincon here.
• Can break out of a potential scenario where Silver simply PK traps him akin to Sans' Turn-Locking, via SAVE and LOAD.

Overall, they seem to counter each other perfectly. Flowey's Danmaku is hard-countered by Silver's PK, which he will absolutely use solely for the fact that it's his only answer to bullet hell; Flowey being a large enough target that Silver will also target him directly, or have his attacks thrown back at him.

Flowey, however, renders Chronos Control utterly useless thanks to his position of holding the timeline at his mercy. Not only that, Flowey can also reset the circumstances of the fight when things spin too far out of his favor.

However, Archie Silver doesn't have nearly the Determination that Frisk or even Game Sonic has; meaning he's not really in a position to cause Flowey enough problems to give up despite the HUUUUGE difference in Lifting Strength in Silver's favor. Overall, despite having a formidable repertoire with PK/LS Spam and Time-Centric Type 4 Acausality, Silver loses the battle of Determination.

Ultimately, I vote Omega Flowey mid-high diff.

 

[Arkansalter2]

Flowey FRA.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Anyways, your mom you really ARE an idiot FRA

 

[Fezzih_007]

Flowey fra

 

[Dragonite007]

Glowey FRA

 

[Theuser789]

Ayyyy, Low 2-C Flowey is REAL!

Silver:

• Silver's Type 4 Acausality regarding being "decoupled from time" aids in his biggest issue; SAVE and LOAD. At the very least, Silver will remember any Resets performed and likely be able to adjust easily to it after the first one throws him for a loop (heh).
• Silver's reliance on Psychokinesis over being a physical fighter aids in holding off Flowey's relentless Danmaku and potentially allow for ragdolling Flowey himself, especially since Silver lacks the means to heal himself across a fight as Frisk often does.
• Superior Range via Super Warp Rings and Chronos Control allows for Silver some minor control of the battlefield. I say minor because Flowey can just Reset prior to whatever Silver pulls, negating it entirely.

Flowey:

• SAVE and LOAD allows Flowey free reign over the timeline, resetting himself/the battlefield to optimal conditions for himself, even if it doesn't work on Silver directly.
• His greater control over the timeline practically nullifies being targeted with Chronos Control
• Existence Erasure may be an issue if Flowey tries to use this offensively on Silver, a solid wincon here.
• Can break out of a potential scenario where Silver simply PK traps him akin to Sans' Turn-Locking, via SAVE and LOAD.

Overall, they seem to counter each other perfectly. Flowey's Danmaku is hard-countered by Silver's PK, which he will absolutely use solely for the fact that it's his only answer to bullet hell; Flowey being a large enough target that Silver will also target him directly, or have his attacks thrown back at him.

Flowey, however, renders Chronos Control utterly useless thanks to his position of holding the timeline at his mercy. Not only that, Flowey can also reset the circumstances of the fight when things spin too far out of his favor.

However, Archie Silver doesn't have nearly the Determination that Frisk or even Game Sonic has; meaning he's not really in a position to cause Flowey enough problems to give up despite the HUUUUGE difference in Lifting Strength in Silver's favor. Overall, despite having a formidable repertoire with PK/LS Spam and Time-Centric Type 4 Acausality, Silver loses the battle of Determination.

Ultimately, I vote Omega Flowey mid-high diff.

You're forgetting Flowey's huge weakness of having the SOULs turn against him. Silver is a very empathetic person, and his telekinesis plus being practically immune to resets means he has plenty of time to convince the dead kids to turn against Flower and depower him.

I vote for Silver.

 

[StrymULTRA]

You're forgetting Flowey's huge weakness of having the SOULs turn against him. Silver is a very empathetic person, and his telekinesis plus being practically immune to resets means he has plenty of time to convince the dead kids to turn against Flower and depower him.

I vote for Silver.

Tbh an argument you can make for Flowey is that Frisk at the time was completely powerless and had literally no other choice, on the other hand Silver does not even know about the SOULs by SBA.

 

[Theuser789]

Tbh an argument you can make for Flowey is that Frisk at the time was completely powerless and had literally no other choice, on the other hand Silver does not even know about the SOULs by SBA.

Flowey has attacks involving the souls, so Silver would find about it eventually. Plus Flowey is the type to tell people about his power since he gloated about it twice. From there it's not much of an assumption Silver can call them for help.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Ngl I think that's more a thing for Frisk given that's even accepted in their profile that they have a very potent SI due to them having an aura of peaceful Determination that will make any opponent that questions their will to fight Frisk in giving up.

I'll still count your vote however.

 

[Theuser789]

Silver is a very empathetic person, even getting the dark future Freedom Fighters to rally behind him and giving them hope to beat Enerjak. I do think he can convince the dead kids to rebel against Flowey. Flowey can win if he uses EE on sight, but I don't think he would do so.

 

[ShakeResounding]

You're forgetting Flowey's huge weakness of having the SOULs turn against him. Silver is a very empathetic person [snip]

Flowey has attacks involving the souls, so Silver would find about it eventually. Plus Flowey is the type to tell people about his power since he gloated about it twice. From there it's not much of an assumption Silver can call them for help.

These are fair points, actually, considering Silver is usually a "bleeding heart" sort of character (to somewhat cringey degrees).

I think I'm.gonna keep my vote for Flowey for right now, but I admit the souls might make it a much closer battle should Silver cry out for help and they decide to intervene.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Flowey's EE has fishy justifications imo, but also yeah it doesn't seem like he usually utilizes it in battle frequently.
Anyway what would be their go to moves here?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Flowey's EE has fishy justifications imo, but also yeah it doesn't seem like he usually utilizes it in battle frequently.
Anyway what would be their go to moves here?

Flowey would technically use EE if he doesn't find Silver's SOUL good enough to be taken to become GoHD.

Regardless Flowey would begin with Danmaku and spam of SAVE and LOAD, while Silver I have no idea ngl.

 

[Theuser789]

Silver would use his powers to grab what's being throw at him to throw it back.

 

[Eseseso]

Ayyyy, Low 2-C Flowey is REAL!

Silver:

• Silver's Type 4 Acausality regarding being "decoupled from time" aids in his biggest issue; SAVE and LOAD. At the very least, Silver will remember any Resets performed and likely be able to adjust easily to it after the first one throws him for a loop (heh).
• Silver's reliance on Psychokinesis over being a physical fighter aids in holding off Flowey's relentless Danmaku and potentially allow for ragdolling Flowey himself, especially since Silver lacks the means to heal himself across a fight as Frisk often does.
• Superior Range via Super Warp Rings and Chronos Control allows for Silver some minor control of the battlefield. I say minor because Flowey can just Reset prior to whatever Silver pulls, negating it entirely.

Flowey:

• SAVE and LOAD allows Flowey free reign over the timeline, resetting himself/the battlefield to optimal conditions for himself, even if it doesn't work on Silver directly.
• His greater control over the timeline practically nullifies being targeted with Chronos Control
• Existence Erasure may be an issue if Flowey tries to use this offensively on Silver, a solid wincon here.
• Can break out of a potential scenario where Silver simply PK traps him akin to Sans' Turn-Locking, via SAVE and LOAD.

Overall, they seem to counter each other perfectly. Flowey's Danmaku is hard-countered by Silver's PK, which he will absolutely use solely for the fact that it's his only answer to bullet hell; Flowey being a large enough target that Silver will also target him directly, or have his attacks thrown back at him.

Flowey, however, renders Chronos Control utterly useless thanks to his position of holding the timeline at his mercy. Not only that, Flowey can also reset the circumstances of the fight when things spin too far out of his favor.

However, Archie Silver doesn't have nearly the Determination that Frisk or even Game Sonic has; meaning he's not really in a position to cause Flowey enough problems to give up despite the HUUUUGE difference in Lifting Strength in Silver's favor. Overall, despite having a formidable repertoire with PK/LS Spam and Time-Centric Type 4 Acausality, Silver loses the battle of Determination.

Ultimately, I vote Omega Flowey mid-high diff.

You have the best analyses.

Anyways, Flowey FRA

 

[Catbowtie]

I have nothing meaningful to say about this fight that hasn't already been said-Wait a minute. Couldn't-wait no, he has Immortality. Can Silver do anything to win? Because if Silver does kill Flowey, then Flowey comes back through SAVE and LOAD system.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

While extremely difficult, sufficient failure can make a user of Determination give up

Hm

 

[Theuser789]

I have nothing meaningful to say about this fight that hasn't already been said-Wait a minute. Couldn't-wait no, he has Immortality. Can Silver do anything to win? Because if Silver does kill Flowey, then Flowey comes back through SAVE and LOAD system.

Silver can convince the SOULs to rebel against Flowey and make him powerless.

 

[Catbowtie]

Something like that requires Social Influencing.

 

[Catbowtie]

Hm

Respectfully, I'm not buying that. Flowey has an effectively infinite amount of re-tries where he can basically just tire out Silver, and Standard Battle Assumptions means that Flowey will never give up on trying to beat Silver. I don't know why that's a weakness since State of Mind would gear a Determination User to, ironically, never give up without being Social Influenced or the like. Unless the Six Souls can be told to leave Flowey's body without Social Influencing, there's nothing Silver can do to win.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Respectfully, I'm not buying that. Flowey has an effectively infinite amount of re-tries where he can basically just tire out Silver, and Standard Battle Assumptions means that Flowey will never give up on trying to beat Silver. I don't know why that's a weakness since State of Mind would gear a Determination User to, ironically, never give up without being Social Influenced or the like.

Note to self, make Lupin's weakness to women irrelevant due to SBA

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Anyway, Silver yells out "It's no use" and gets obliterated FRA

 

[StrymULTRA]

And... Grace.