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@OnePounchSaitama
He didn't claim that its unbreakable, he just asked for a proof that MPF can break the chains like herc did which is a possibility just like the fact that the chains will bind karna is also a possibility, so i figured its useless to discuss it more at this point since we won't...
Wasn't his servant core damaged after his fight with the protag's servant in ccc? I was just giving an example from the myth, indeed he got trapped by vlad's stakes yet he blew them all away by saying "Agni" Iam just suggesting that the same can be done to counter the chains
About the chains of heaven.. i think i would like to explain what i think of the matter more.
First off they have already been broken before and not just once, tiamat broke a giant version used by kingu(implied to be superior to enkidu) and herc broke the smaller one that gil uses, if you want...
@RegisNex1232
n impossibility that was already broven to be possiple. Iam just trying to say that enkidu doens't make everything easier for gil, it can be countered or blasted away for even a couple of seconds and that would be more than enough for karna to fire one of his nukes/lightning...
@AnonymousBlank
From apo material
"During the great battle in the second volume, Lancer of Black's repeated attaks weren't half-hearted at all, and any other Lancer besides Karna wouldn't have been able to withstand it"
You might consider it a hyperpole or an exaggeration if you want but it...
Kavacha and kundala along with MPF allowed karna to shrug thousands of stakes from vlad in his own territory with each of those stakes being capable of screwing normal servants, and that was karna holding back. If he would simply get trashed like herc or lancelot because of GoB he wouldn't be...
All of karna's nps are literally long-ranged nukes tho... and thats not even counting the lightning attacks he can keep shooting with VS and the spliting lightning spear attack he uses in extella, it made a decent explosion when it was animated in apo. Gil may have more nps to throw at him but...
About the chains... as far as i know, herc broke the chains because of his willpower.. and karna's known for having that on steroids and apo vol 5 mentioned that his strongest weapon is his willpower so wouldn't he break the chains? Heck he can even use mana burst flames to blast the chains away...
While Siegfried may have a stronger defence, Sigurd has superior strength, peerless swordsmanship that equals Siegfried's, and I think Sigurd can throw his sword as a long ranged np like he did in the CM and in the chapter against Surtr so if it comes down to an np clash between Bolverk gram and...
Still doesn't prove that its stronger than VS, its true that Ea bends the fabric of reality and temporarily exposes the target to the other side by destroying gaia's RM(unofficial term) but it will immediately get patched up by rhon and the other pillers of light, while that's incredibly...
I think its inconclusive, while gil may have a bigger arsenal, karna can match it with kavacha and kundala and his skill with dealing with explosive projectiles since he can deal with arjuna who's literally a missile launcher on legs. The chains of heaven can be deadly against him but he can...
As far as I remember from tha materials Da vinci's noble phantasm is said to be an all-purpose gauntlet that can't be reduced by any defensive-type Noble Phantasm. ...but what does that have to do with scathash ? Karna's armor is considered hard to destroy even for the Kamigami, da vinci's np is...
Well she wouldn't even be summoned as a servant if she didn't lose her immortality lol, but since the thread uses them "at their strongest" we gave it to her I guess.
Uh, scathash's durability is mountain level... and vasavi shakti is strong enough to inflict extinction on a being who can survive the heat of a star (sypher), so even with her immortality are we really sure she would take that attack and stay in one piece? I mean vasavi shakti is said to be...
I just noticed the thread states that win is by death or K.O so if karna knocks her out with any of his nps and she takes time to regenerate it would be his win
Karna's armor protected him from BB's anti world noble phantasm and the moon cell authority, which is much more hax than gate of skye's "instant kill" also karna's mana is enough to allow him to survive it so he will only get mana drained by10% of its original value thanks to his armor, also he...
It's not, it can block a balmung blast and stronger beams when used with mana burst flames but my point wasn't even about the armor , you see the only reason sieg managed to keep up with him was spamming balmung while scathash doesn't have an A+ noble phantasm that she can spam in order to deal...
Yet scathash still can't beat Karna, the reason cu alter managed to kill him with gae bulg was because he backstabbed him, if scathash tries to use gae bulg he would simply use mana burst flames to vaporize her, push her back, and stop her form getting close, and if she uses gate of Skye he...
apparently achilles needs to seal his other noble phantasms if he wants to block an anti fortress/anti country attack using his shield , which would put him in a huge disadvantge against ozy without his chariot and the comet form. so i guess that settles it more in ozy's favor
I believe like BLACKWATHERRR said she loses her immortality as a servant, otherwise a noble phantasm weaker than Vasavi Shakti like Curruid Coinchenn wouldn't have made her almost die and lose 90% of her organs without destroying the land of the shadows
I honestly though it's not much of an exaggeration when it makes sense because no other lancer possesses a defence like kavacha and kundala, maybe I shouldn't have taken it literally
my vote still goes for Karna for the other reasons tho
Cu alter had to backstab Karna using that gae bulg and karna still survived and used a weaker Vasavi shakti, but in a direct fight without backstabing you think Karna will just stand there and let Cu or Scathach use gae bulg on him? in a direct fight Scathach will have to survive a full powered...
going with Ozy here since achilles is up against an entire legion/army of divine and phantasmal beasts. pretty sure it will exhaust him to fight all of them at once while ozy spams light beams, I mean he sure can block prettymuch anything ozy can fire at him with his shield but ozy's overall...
@Neo
I get your point but gate of skye wasn't implied to be used for defence at all, heck if it can be used that way scath would be cabaple of blocking any attack by sending it to the land of the shadows and she never did this before
the instant kill effect should be negated by karna's armor...
in close combat the advantage is probably for karna since his mana burst flames is just so destructive for scath to deal with, the only reason sieg managed to keep up with him in their final battle was probably thanks to balmung spam and scath doesn't seem to have something like that, also she...
cu was this strong in america because he was powered up by the grail and i think the version we're using in this thread isn't powered up by the grail but i am not sure
karna didn't have an extremely hard time to defeat arjuna at all he is capable of beating him just fine and while it was stated...
inconclusive. i don't think they can take each other down
but i might lean toward tiamat since arc will have to kill every living being on earth in order to be able to hurt her
against karna she will lose. he has better nps and if she is rhon possessed it will be even easier for him since she is a divine spirite in that state and his vasavi shakti would be more effective on her
as for arjuna she might actually win since lancers have an advantage against archers most...