If the calculation itself is accurate, I am fine with Flowey and those stronger than him like Asgore scaling to 9-A, but we should absolutely not scale everyone to a feat performed by one of the most powerful characters in the verse.
The calc still needs to be accepted, haven't gotten feedback yet
The issue is Sans is a roadblock very likely due to his speed + durability negating hax abilities rather than raw AP, as he has only 1 ATK and 1 DEF, making him physically weaker than the whole verse (Snowdrake's Mother is weird, idk how I feel about her negative stats).
"At most 9-A" seems like a better option to me.
Yeah... if Frisk isn't taking 19 damage because they're off guard then there's no way they should scale at all. Flowey wanted to make them suffer, and it's very likely he lowered their HP to 1 on purpose instead of instantly killing them. Doesn't matter anyway, surviving with 1 HP is not grounds to scale.
It seemingly did zero damage to Flowey, since it's literally just the causal act of him moving, and even sans can do 1 damage LV 19 Frisk who's clearly physically superior to (LV 1?) Flowey, so everyone would probably just end up chain scaling off it.
It’s a bit weird to me since we don’t see any proper holes made when Flowey burrows, he just kinda slides in there without much damage done
Looking at his battle sprite animation, it looks like the ground around him just sort of seems to close up around him whenever he digs up and down, I don't even know how that works.
There's a visible hole in his burrowing sprite, it just doesn't stick around
Maybe he pulls the ground back together with his vines?
As one does.
Oh shit, you’re right I forgor
Extremely strongly agreed. Dealing pathetically low amounts of damage to a character is absolutely not grounds for scaling. Sans dealing damage to Frisk, therefore he scales is like saying because a rat bite draws blood from me, the rat should scale.
Yeah, but Flowey took zero damage from digging up and it's not even an actual attack, it's literally just him moving.
Wouldn’t be the first time with these verses
The floor is likely made of stone, but I'm unsure how deep it is.
You'd just wanna get vegetoid's size and use that for depth
Flowey's height could also probably work too.
Well, THAT's more-so because humans don't have 10-B durability against attacks with an extremely small surface area. Also why knives are so lethal
My point stands. Dealing 1 damage to someone is not grounds for scaling. Surviving on 1 HP is not grounds for scaling.
Frisk’s DETERMINATION varies. Problem solved.
Undyne can spar and knock down Asgore, and she only has 20 DEF (As in practically everyone scales to her)
If it was a spar than it’s likely neither were truly going all out. Asgore could simply just be not using his full power, which is very in character since he greatly holds back against us in literally every route.
Why would this be the case when Undyne is portrayed as significantly more powerful than most other monsters?
In one of the Neutral Endings Undyne also "threw Toriel out of the castle with her strength."
Papyrus has 20 ATK and DEF, and practically every monster from Waterfall onward has higher stats. Maddie can withstand her own 30 ATK attacks, yet Napstablook's 10 ATK tears can still hurt her. Really the only monsters you could reasonably exclude from everyone else's scaling are the weakest Ruins ones.
Because 1 damage > 0 damage.
There could be a billion ways the fight (if it was one) could have occurred. Maybe Undyne had help from the Royal Guard. Maybe Toriel wasn’t fighting at full power. Maybe Undyne caught Toriel off guard. Maybe the difference in combat skill had something to do with it. We don’t know and I really don’t think we should base scaling off an encounter that we know almost nothing about.
Then those monsters can upscale Papyrus and Papyrus level peeps. Unless we wanna put feats over stats priority wise which I mean…maybe
What do you mean by “hurt”? How much damage is being inflicted?
So like:
The other 9-B Royal Guards and any amount of skill wouldn't have mattered against a 9-A Toriel. Maybe Toriel was holding back, or maybe she was simply caught off guard, but considering Undyne is the same person who used to spar with and even knocked down Asgore, and that sans explicitly points to her strength when talking about her overthrowing Toriel, there's really no reason to be so skeptical that she isn't leagues below the Boss Monsters, much less someone (Flowey) who's weaker than them.
You def know that the CHECK stats serve no in-game purpose and are just Toby's own powerscaling of the cast, so like this does reads as
You cannot inflict minor damage if you're so weak in comparison. You're treating things as if a human can deal "minor damage" to a tank lol.
How do you explain Napstablook's 10 ATK damaging Mad Dummy enough for it to be genuinely annoyed despite it tanking multiple times its own 30 ATK blows?
Blooky’s tears are called “acid rain” by Maddie so maybe it’s hax.
except that "acid rain" cannot really harm a ghost due to these being incorporeal, it's clear that it's MD who's been excessive about it.
