AP = 1-A Durability: automatic even with contradictory anti-feats?

English translation​

AlexSamDen said:

English please

Click to expand...

Hecky2222 said:

Alors 1-A n'est pas 1-A à cause de cet anti-exploit.

Click to expand...

AtomicSamurai said:

En prenant l'exemple de Iron Man, si je me souviens bien il a déjà été en mesure d'affronter des entités supérieures du tier low 1-A/1-A, pourtant lui même n'est qu'un humain. On peut dire qu'il a une AP relevant du même tier ? Et sinon, Outerversal lvl nécessite une existence ou une puissance ?

Click to expand...

Ezaru said:

Well, Normally for a punch, there would be an equal and opposite force, which they would tank when attacking

Not sure if that applies here, though, because outerversal stuff is literally beyond physics

As far as I am aware, you can have 1-A AP without 1-A existence, so like yeah you wouldnt have 1-A durability

Click to expand...

Ezaru said:

As far as I am aware, you can have 1-A AP without 1-A existence, so like yeah you wouldnt have 1-A durability

Click to expand...

Q: Can a character have physical stats qualitatively superior to their own state of existence?
A: Broadly: No. The crucial thing to note about 1-A and above is that these tiers, in the relevant respect here, are completely discontinuous with lower ones. Therefore, no extension or add-ups of things from a lower reality (i.e. No quantitative increases) can measure up to a qualitatively greater plane of existence, and this applies to physical strength no less than it does to size. Thus, even if they are being boosted by a force from the corresponding level, a character from a lesser reality can't have qualitatively greater physical strength. The entity could not produce such a thing in the same way it could not produce a spatial object that is larger than itself.

That said, while they cannot be at this level by having their own physical power increased, they might be endowed with, or awaken, metaphysical attributes that allow them to imitate and influence things on a 1-A and higher scale. For example, consider the following scenario: A cosmology that includes both a physical level and an "informational" level that both transcends the physical and holds the "coding" of all the things in it. An entity capable of influencing the informational level then "locks" a certain person's code, and makes them unable to be interfered with even by other beings on a similar level to itself. This alteration to the metaphysical make-up of the person then emanates downwards into their physical body, and likewise makes them unable to be harmed by anything in the physical world.

In general, a character that is of a lower reality yet has, e.g. "1-A durability," would be receiving a metaphysical alteration that completely overwrites their own physical attributes. In the case of a cosmology that receives such a rating from Reality-Fiction Transcendences, for instance, say in a situation where the lower reality is a drawing to the higher reality, this alteration would not be the character becoming so materially "tough" that the artist cannot erase their drawing anymore. Rather, it would be an alteration at the level of the drawing itself.

A similar case, therefore, goes for Attack Potency. A character from a lower reality cannot "punch with 1-A force," because even if the higher reality has a concept of force, it is completely disconnected from that of the lower reality and therefore there is nothing that can bridge the two. They can, however, serve as a sort of conduit for power from a higher level, and thereby imitate qualitatively greater Attack Potency.

However, keep in mind: Just because a character from a lower reality is being empowered by something from a higher plane, does not mean that we can pass over any instances of ilicit interactions that might count as anti-feats towards the higher reality being 1-A. This is because, as said before, even an entity from a qualitatively greater level of existence cannot bring a thing to its own level simply by quantitatively increasing their strength. Therefore, if this empowerment is clearly one entirely focused around increasing their existing statistics while keeping them fundamentally unchanged instead of overwriting the very way in which they operate, it cannot be used to avoid or excuse anti-feats.

In which case, evidence must be given and weighed up in order to determine whether the empowerment is metaphysical in nature, either by explicit statements, or contextual indications that make such a thing sufficiently probable. For example: If the verse consistently presents certain characters as having the aforementioned "locked information", but a few characters comparable to those lack concrete statements of the same kind. Or if the verse has consistent but unreliable or uncertain statements hinting at the possibility of a more fundamental mechanism for their power, which is otherwise consistently shown to operate on a 1-A level.

Click to expand...

Hecky2222 said:

There was like whole thread even where Agnaa and Ultima agreed heralds of Marvel not being 1-A if you all want to bring outdated marvel profiles to say "Buuuuut Hecker Marvel characters are 1-A AP"

Click to expand...

Ezaru said:

Well, Normally for a punch, there would be an equal and opposite force, which they would tank when attacking

Not sure if that applies here, though, because outerversal stuff is literally beyond physics

As far as I am aware, you can have 1-A AP without 1-A existence, so like yeah you wouldnt have 1-A durability

Click to expand...

RSM9976 said:

This FAQ is for physical stats, not AP in general.

Click to expand...

Hecky2222 said:

AP is physical stat brochacho

Click to expand...

However, there are ways to bypass this barrier. For example, a non-1-A can be empowered by a higher entity into being able to influence things on a qualitatively superior level. This can happen either by a straightforward power boost, or by means of some innate metaphysical potential rooted in something from a higher reality (This can include both characters who are converted into natives of higher planes and characters who are physically lower-dimensional but have 1-A statistics). In neither case is the capability to reach into the higher level something emergent from the structure of the lower level, and therefore they are acceptable ways to get around the above hurdles.

Click to expand...

Hecky2222 said:

There was like whole thread even where Agnaa and Ultima agreed heralds of Marvel not being 1-A if you all want to bring outdated marvel profiles to say "Buuuuut Hecker Marvel characters are 1-A AP"

Click to expand...

Planck69 said:

You can have 1-A Attack Potency, if it is via some external means or specific ability from that higher order of reality while still being 3-D.

Now granted, this doesn't easily translate to "can wallop someone who sees you as fiction" but it is possible.

Click to expand...

However, keep in mind: Just because a character from a lower reality is being empowered by something from a higher plane, does not mean that we can pass over any instances of ilicit interactions that might count as anti-feats towards the higher reality being 1-A. This is because, as said before, even an entity from a qualitatively greater level of existence cannot bring a thing to its own level simply by quantitatively increasing their strength. Therefore, if this empowerment is clearly one entirely focused around increasing their existing statistics while keeping them fundamentally unchanged instead of overwriting the very way in which they operate, it cannot be used to avoid or excuse anti-feats.

Click to expand...

In which case, evidence must be given and weighed up in order to determine whether the empowerment is metaphysical in nature, either by explicit statements, or contextual indications that make such a thing sufficiently probable. For example: If the verse consistently presents certain characters as having the aforementioned "locked information", but a few characters comparable to those lack concrete statements of the same kind. Or if the verse has consistent but unreliable or uncertain statements hinting at the possibility of a more fundamental mechanism for their power, which is otherwise consistently shown to operate on a 1-A level.

Click to expand...

Vietthai96 said:

You can have 1-A stats, if there is an external power/thing that elevate your entire existence up to that level

Click to expand...

Hecky2222 said:

That would be emulation, not literally AP though. Like sure you can grant some strange force from 1-A to 3-D character to point whole fundamentals of lower reality is having causal effects after it. You would need some broader context to justify it to not get counted as anti-feat





Idk which verse can be example of this



Ascension is one thing, carrying 1-A stats is another.

Click to expand...

Planck69 said:

I am specifically talking about Attack Potency, like Gilgamesh (Unwritten) via his Horn, not striking strength. It is very much possible to just randomly have an ability that can affect/destroy 1-A planes of existence.

Now translating that into physicals is all but impossible if not extremely rare, yes.

Click to expand...

Hecky2222 said:

Tbf Maanim he has should go to range and EE hax rather than AP which is my point about "Emulation of effect not literally Physical Stats"

Click to expand...