- 12,757
- 15,220
This CRT is for revising Dragon Ball lifting strength based on the manga's direct lifting / weight / gravity-training progression, statements, and the like.
The main goal here is straightforward:
Dragon Ball's direct lifting strength progression is much lower than people would expect from how high the characters' general power gets, but that doesn't make the progression unclear, unusable, or incorrect.
If anything, the opposite is true. The manga gives a surprisingly direct chain of lifting / weight / gravity-training values from early Dragon Ball, through Z, and even into Super. The values are just not as high as someone would intuitively assume from the verse's AP. Yet even with that distinction already accepted here, Dragon Ball's direct LS showings are still weirdly grounded compared to its AP. But "weirdly low" doesn't equate to "inconsistent", especially when the manga keeps giving explicit numbers that are shockingly consistent in terms of upward escalation from start to finish.
The proposal is that Dragon Ball's lifting strength should follow the manga's direct lifting / weight / gravity-training chain, as that chain is repeated, numbered, and internally consistent over the entire course of the manga, from start to finish, making it, surprisingly, one of the few generally consistent threads running throughout.
The main goal here is straightforward:
Dragon Ball's direct lifting strength progression is much lower than people would expect from how high the characters' general power gets, but that doesn't make the progression unclear, unusable, or incorrect.
If anything, the opposite is true. The manga gives a surprisingly direct chain of lifting / weight / gravity-training values from early Dragon Ball, through Z, and even into Super. The values are just not as high as someone would intuitively assume from the verse's AP. Yet even with that distinction already accepted here, Dragon Ball's direct LS showings are still weirdly grounded compared to its AP. But "weirdly low" doesn't equate to "inconsistent", especially when the manga keeps giving explicit numbers that are shockingly consistent in terms of upward escalation from start to finish.
The proposal is that Dragon Ball's lifting strength should follow the manga's direct lifting / weight / gravity-training chain, as that chain is repeated, numbered, and internally consistent over the entire course of the manga, from start to finish, making it, surprisingly, one of the few generally consistent threads running throughout.
This is the direct numbered LS / resistance chain the CRT is based on.
This section is only for the actual evidence and immediate result. The reason this evidence should take priority over less direct higher feats is explained in the next section.
Classic
1. Dragon Ball Chapter 31 - 20 kg shells:
5. Dragon Ball Z Chapter 16 / 17 - Kaio's 10G planet:
6. Dragon Ball Z Chapter 57 - 20G training / 100G warning:
11. Dragon Ball Z Chapter 142 - Vegeta's 300G training:
12.1. Dragon Ball Z Chapter 234 - Base Goku's 8 ton training:
This section is only for the actual evidence and immediate result. The reason this evidence should take priority over less direct higher feats is explained in the next section.
Classic
1. Dragon Ball Chapter 31 - 20 kg shells:
- Goku and Krillin train with 20 kg shells.
- Result: 20 kg training load.
- Note: Not a max, but it establishes the first direct weight-training value and how such values while not high-effort, are enough to act as tangible limiters.
- The shell weight is doubled to 40 kg.
- Result: 40 kg training load.
- Note: Again, not a max, but it is the next explicit step in the training chain.
- Goku throws Giran, who weighs 211 kg.
- Caveat: Goku initially struggles, then uses a running start.
- Result: 211 kg dynamic throw with effort and momentum.
- Rating: Athletic Human by raw mass, but the throw is much better than a static lift due to the launch/momentum involved. It shouldn't be treated as casual lifting, since Goku initially fails to move Giran efficiently, which aligns with the before-and-after here.
For the record, the throw if calced normally is only low Class 5, which honestly is still consistent with this given the caveats involved and the fact without those caveats he struggles with the default value.
- Goku wears roughly 115 kg of weights during normal movement. It's enough to actively hinder his performance, but not enough to stop him from fighting.
- His contemporaries put in minor effort to lift portions of the same weights, baffling even Tien.
- Result: 115 kg casual worn load.
- Note: This is lower than Giran by raw value, but more casual, sustained and constant at joints and ligament sections. Point is weight around this threshold is notable for them.
5. Dragon Ball Z Chapter 16 / 17 - Kaio's 10G planet:
- Goku struggles to move on Kaio's planet.
- Saiyan homeworld gravity is stated to be the same.
- Goku's listed body weight: 62 kg.
- 62 kg x 10G = 620 kg.
- Result: 620 kg effective bodyweight burden.
- Rating: Class 1.
- Note: This is gravity/bodyweight burden, not a literal 620 kg deadlift, but it is a direct resistance showing but also a borderline cap for casual performance.
6. Dragon Ball Z Chapter 57 - 20G training / 100G warning:
- 20G is already heavy training.
- 100G is said to likely be lethal to Goku at that point, a total of 6 tons (he's rounding down).
- 62 kg x 20G = 1,240 kg.
- Result: 1.24 tons effective bodyweight burden.
- Rating: Class 5 for 20G, with 100G being the implied Class 10 danger cap at this point.
- Framed as escalation of the Saiyan Saga 10G display.
- Goku moves up to 30G.
- 62 kg x 30G = 1,860 kg.
- Result: 1.86 tons effective bodyweight burden.
- Rating: Class 5.
- The Saiyan Saga Z-Fighters get to King Kai's planet and Yamcha notes under the 10G they're heavy enough to have difficulty just running.
- Piccolo: 116 kg x 10G = 1,160 kg.
- Result for Piccolo: 1.16 tons effective bodyweight burden.
- Rating: Class 5.
- Tien: 75 kg x 10G = 750 kg.
- Result for Tien: 0.75 tons effective bodyweight burden.
- Rating: Class 1.
- Yamcha: 68 kg x 10G = 680 kg.
- Result for Yamcha: 0.68 tons effective bodyweight burden.
- Rating: Class 1.
- Chaozu: 33 kg x 10G = 330 kg.
- Result for Chaozu: 0.33 tons effective bodyweight burden.
- Rating: Peak Human
he'd upscale Goku pre-Kaio and DB weighting, so Class 1.- Piccolo: 3,500.
- Tien: 1,830.
- Yamcha: 1,480.
- Chaozu: 610.
- This aligns with Goku's training as at 416 Goku had trouble at 620 kg while the fighters here are doing better at their respective weights relative to when Goku first went though still not unhindered, meanwhile at 8,000~, 620 kg was no longer an issue. This would push Goku post-Kai up to Class 5 as Piccolo acts as an in-between for that small but unknown gap between Goku's 20G training and 10G training. This also helps show the 10G material isn't a mere one-off Goku gag; the same kind of gravity burden is reused for multiple characters and still treated as physically relevant time and time again.
- Goku masters 50G.
- 62 kg x 50G = 3,100 kg.
- Result: 3.1 tons effective bodyweight burden.
- Rating: At least Class 5 (given he was doing pretty good under it).
- Goku trains in 100G.
- 62 kg x 100G = 6,200 kg.
- Result: 6.2 tons effective bodyweight burden.
- Rating: Class 10.
- Gap from Saiyan Saga 10G: exactly 10x.
- Note: the manga mentions this threshold is enough to instantly crush a human.
11. Dragon Ball Z Chapter 142 - Vegeta's 300G training:
- Vegeta trains in 300G and damages his body doing so.
- Vegeta's listed body weight: 56 kg (lower than Brief's 60 kg example he also used with Goku).
- 56 kg x 300G = 16,800 kg (as directly stated).
- Result: 16.8 tons effective bodyweight burden.
- Rating: Class 25.
- Caveat: This is with strain, not casual.
- Framed as escalation of the Saiyan Saga and Namek Saga displays.
12.1. Dragon Ball Z Chapter 234 - Base Goku's 8 ton training:
- Goku trains with 2 tons per limb.
- 2 tons x 4 limbs = 8 tons total.
- Result: 8 tons, manageable but still treated as legitimate training weight (80 tons if Heaven's 10G is accepted).
- Rating: At least Class 10 normally. If Heaven's 10G gravity is accepted for the scene, this would become Class 100.
- Goku says 10 tons per limb would be too much in base.
- 10 tons x 4 limbs = 40 tons total.
- Super Saiyan Goku then handles the 40 tons easily.
- Result for Base Goku: At most 40 tons in base, but not combat-applicable, as he can't move properly with it.
- Result for Super Saiyan Goku: 40 tons casually/combat-applicable (400 if 10G).
- Rating for Super Saiyan Goku: Class 50 normally. If Heaven's 10G gravity is accepted for the scene, this would become Class K.
- Note: This is one of the clearest direct caps in the manga.
- Super Saiyan Vegeta trains in 150G.
- Base Trunks cannot handle it, but Super Saiyan Trunks can.
- Vegeta: 56 kg x 150G = 8,400 kg.
- Result for Vegeta: 8.4 tons effective bodyweight burden.
- Rating: At least Class 10 (though he would scale higher but this point, Class 10 is still something high enough to press him).
- Trunks: 30 kg x 150G = 4,500 kg.
- Result for Trunks: 4.5 tons effective bodyweight burden, which is Class 5. Base Trunks can't handle it properly, while Super Saiyan Trunks can easily.
Higher LS-looking feats in Dragon Ball do exist. I'm not saying every higher showing is fake, unusable, or impossible to discuss.
The issue is that most of them aren't the kind of feats the manga itself treats as explicit lifting strength benchmarks.
They're usually things like ripping rock apart, rending steel, throwing someone hard, breaking an object, launching an enemy, or damaging the environment during combat.
In a casual sense, some of those can technically be calced as LS, but that doesn't inherently mean they should override the manga's direct lifting / weight / gravity-training progression.
Context matters, as always.
A feat being technically interpretable as LS is not the same as the author presenting it as a lifting strength showing. And with Toriyama specifically, this distinction appears to matter quite a bit, as when the manga actually wants to show lifting / resistance progression, it gives direct numbers instead.
Which is where Dragon Ball differs from a lot of other cases.
In some series, you might have a character stated to cap at 100 tons while constantly doing mountain-level lifting feats such as with Marvel, and at that point the statement might just be treated as the author not understanding the scale or scope. But that's not really what's happening here.
With Dragon Ball, it's not just:
The same applies across the chain:
This fact matters as they functionally act as caps for the characters at those points in time. Super Vegeta, in that scene, cannot lift 1,000 tons. Base Buu Saga Goku, in that scene, cannot move properly with 40 tons. Anyone below that point should not casually upscale past those values without very specific evidence as the manga's own direct progression is showing where the cap is for characters at their level.
This also lines up directly with the rest of the numbered chain.
Buu Saga Base Goku struggling with 8 tons and being below 40 tons isn't isolated. It fits close enough with Vegeta training at 300G, which is roughly 16.8 tons of bodyweight burden using his canon body weight and what Briefs claims. It also lines up from Namek Goku working up to 100G, which is roughly 6.2 tons of bodyweight burden using his listed body weight. And so on and so forth at every point, while the gaps may not be as large as one would expect, weaker characters struggle with less, stronger characters struggle with more, in a straightforward A>B>C type escalation.
Meaning:
It's more like:
Which is precisely why the direct chain should have priority.
Other verses getting away with higher feat interpretations doesn't really answer the issue here either. Not every verse works the same way.
Some verses can use broad physical feats more freely given the feats are consistent with other feats and statements, there are no repeated direct anti-feats contradicting them, or at least not frequently enough to give them priority, the setting established those kinds of feats as raw LS showings, or the author clearly treats them as intentional displays of lifting / grappling strength and there's enough context to gauge they know what they're talking about.
Dragon Ball more often than not lacks that and instead has Toriyama's direct LS progression via the weight / gravity chain. Which is the part he repeatedly emphasizes with numbers. The higher LS-looking feats are usually action panels that only become LS through calc interpretation. They may be legitimate in a vacuum, but they still need to be weighed against more explicit evidence.
That doesn't mean Dragon Ball has zero straightforward higher feats obviously. Early Goku moving a giant rock is an obvious example, and there are probably a few others. But those are the exception, not the main chain, and they quickly get contradicted by the following explicit progression that somehow manages to stay coherent with itself till the very end of the manga.
It sucks, but it is what it is.
So the question is no longer:
They can maybe be discussed individually as odd higher showings, supporting feats, or exceptions (for example; Frieza and Cell's telekinesis), but they shouldn't become the main scaling chain when the manga already gives a very explicit one.
The issue is that most of them aren't the kind of feats the manga itself treats as explicit lifting strength benchmarks.
They're usually things like ripping rock apart, rending steel, throwing someone hard, breaking an object, launching an enemy, or damaging the environment during combat.
In a casual sense, some of those can technically be calced as LS, but that doesn't inherently mean they should override the manga's direct lifting / weight / gravity-training progression.
Context matters, as always.
A feat being technically interpretable as LS is not the same as the author presenting it as a lifting strength showing. And with Toriyama specifically, this distinction appears to matter quite a bit, as when the manga actually wants to show lifting / resistance progression, it gives direct numbers instead.
- The direct evidence is already laid out in the scan index above. The important part is that these aren't vague implications or niche scaling chains; they are explicit weight, gravity, or failed-lifting scenes.
Which is where Dragon Ball differs from a lot of other cases.
In some series, you might have a character stated to cap at 100 tons while constantly doing mountain-level lifting feats such as with Marvel, and at that point the statement might just be treated as the author not understanding the scale or scope. But that's not really what's happening here.
With Dragon Ball, it's not just:
- "Goku says a few tons are heavy".
- "Goku says a few tons are heavy, and then he literally struggles with those few tons on-panel".
The same applies across the chain:
- Goku doesn't just say 10 tons per limb / 40 tons total would be too much for his base form. He has effort with 2 tons per limb / 8 tons total, then needs Super Saiyan to handle the 40 tons easily.
- Vegeta doesn't just get a random statement about 300G. He actually trains under that burden and damages his body doing so.
- Goku doesn't just get told 100G is dangerous. He has to work his way up from 20G, to 30G, to 50G, and only then 100G.
- Vegeta doesn't just get told the Metal Man is 1,000 tons. He actually fails to lift / move him.
This fact matters as they functionally act as caps for the characters at those points in time. Super Vegeta, in that scene, cannot lift 1,000 tons. Base Buu Saga Goku, in that scene, cannot move properly with 40 tons. Anyone below that point should not casually upscale past those values without very specific evidence as the manga's own direct progression is showing where the cap is for characters at their level.
This also lines up directly with the rest of the numbered chain.
Buu Saga Base Goku struggling with 8 tons and being below 40 tons isn't isolated. It fits close enough with Vegeta training at 300G, which is roughly 16.8 tons of bodyweight burden using his canon body weight and what Briefs claims. It also lines up from Namek Goku working up to 100G, which is roughly 6.2 tons of bodyweight burden using his listed body weight. And so on and so forth at every point, while the gaps may not be as large as one would expect, weaker characters struggle with less, stronger characters struggle with more, in a straightforward A>B>C type escalation.
Meaning:
- "One dumb low statement vs. a bunch of higher feats".
It's more like:
- "An entire direct numbered chain of statements + showings + anti-feats vs. a smaller group of less explicit higher feats".
Which is precisely why the direct chain should have priority.
Other verses getting away with higher feat interpretations doesn't really answer the issue here either. Not every verse works the same way.
Some verses can use broad physical feats more freely given the feats are consistent with other feats and statements, there are no repeated direct anti-feats contradicting them, or at least not frequently enough to give them priority, the setting established those kinds of feats as raw LS showings, or the author clearly treats them as intentional displays of lifting / grappling strength and there's enough context to gauge they know what they're talking about.
Dragon Ball more often than not lacks that and instead has Toriyama's direct LS progression via the weight / gravity chain. Which is the part he repeatedly emphasizes with numbers. The higher LS-looking feats are usually action panels that only become LS through calc interpretation. They may be legitimate in a vacuum, but they still need to be weighed against more explicit evidence.
That doesn't mean Dragon Ball has zero straightforward higher feats obviously. Early Goku moving a giant rock is an obvious example, and there are probably a few others. But those are the exception, not the main chain, and they quickly get contradicted by the following explicit progression that somehow manages to stay coherent with itself till the very end of the manga.
It sucks, but it is what it is.
So the question is no longer:
- "Can this one higher feat technically be calced as LS?"
- "Is this higher feat clear enough, direct enough, and consistent enough to override the manga's repeated and oddly consistent numbered LS progression and its direct anti-feats?"
They can maybe be discussed individually as odd higher showings, supporting feats, or exceptions (for example; Frieza and Cell's telekinesis), but they shouldn't become the main scaling chain when the manga already gives a very explicit one.
The current manga profiles would stop scaling Dragon Ball's lifting strength from the current Class M / Class G chain where that scaling is based on broad physical superiority, environmental destruction, or feats that aren't direct lifting benchmarks. In other words, the change isn't just "lower the ratings"; it's changing what the main scaling chain is even allowed to be based on.
Instead, the profiles should use the manga's much more direct weight / gravity / lifting progression as the main LS foundation.
The current issue is that the profiles treat characters as reaching things like Class M or Class G far earlier than the direct manga chain would supports, all while the manga itself repeatedly gives much lower physical LS caps at specific points in time.
These caps should obviously matter.
These are the important caps I think the profiles should follow:
Current:
Dragon Ball's LS is weirdly low compared to its general power, but the direct progression is clear and should be used as the primary basis.
Note: this is only for the manga canon (though the general idea applies to all, the exact ratings may not be as straightforward or in some cases the roundabout feats may outweigh, those exact details aren't relevant here though and would need to be discussed in its own specific CRT). Anime Super has its own thing going on with far more showings, and Toei is a lil ******* freak of nature, they obviously knew how odd the discrepancy was and made an effort to inflate the LS (at least after a point).
Instead, the profiles should use the manga's much more direct weight / gravity / lifting progression as the main LS foundation.
The current issue is that the profiles treat characters as reaching things like Class M or Class G far earlier than the direct manga chain would supports, all while the manga itself repeatedly gives much lower physical LS caps at specific points in time.
These caps should obviously matter.
- Proposed Main LS Chain (with characters scaling as required based on PL, showings, and contesting between characters).
- 20 kg to 40 kg shell training.
- 211 kg Giran throw with momentum and initial struggle.
- 115 kg weighted clothing later on.
- This should not be Class K or Class M from the boulder feats as a general scaling chain.
- Proposed: varies by key, but the direct early values are mostly Peak to Superhuman, with higher direct feats discussed as exceptions rather than the main chain (a lot of these aren't outright impossible for him to do so they aren't real caps, but they do compromise him to a degree so he isn't so far beyond these values to be completely beyond them).
- 10G Kaio planet movement.
- 62 kg bodyweight x 10G = 620 kg (for Goku, for example).
- Proposed: At least Class 1 via 10G bodyweight burden not being impossible, though still actively problematic.
- This acts as the physical LS benchmark for pre-Kaio Saiyan Saga Goku, with post-Kaio characters scaling higher based on their own 10G showings and PL, such as Piccolo reaching Class 5 through his own bodyweight burden and Goku after training scaling to Piccolo.
- Characters below post-Kaio Goku or Piccolo post-training should not be scaling to the later 1 ton to multi-ton gravity values.
- Gravity ship training goes from 20G, to 30G, to 50G, to 100G.
- 62 kg bodyweight x 100G = 6,200 kg.
- Proposed: At least Class 10 via 100G bodyweight burden.
- This acts as the physical LS benchmark for post-gravity training Namek Goku.
- Characters below this Goku shouldn't scale to Class 10 or higher without their own direct evidence or nuance.
- 300G training.
- 56 kg bodyweight x 300G = 16,800 kg.
- Proposed: Class 25 via 300G bodyweight burden, but with strain.
- This acts as the physical LS benchmark for Android Saga Vegeta's gravity training.
- Since Vegeta damages his body doing this, it shouldn't be treated as a casual value.
- Characters below Android Saga Vegeta shouldn't scale above Class 25 without direct LS evidence such as Cell.
- 2 tons per limb.
- 8 tons total.
- Goku has effort with this.
- He also states that 10 tons per limb, or 40 tons total, would be too much for him in base.
- Proposed: At least Class 10, at most Class 50, with Class 50 acting as his upper cap rather than a usable/combat-applicable value. This acts as a hard cap for Base Buu Saga Goku.
- Anyone below Base Buu Saga Goku should not scale to Class 50 physically without specific direct evidence.
- Base Goku can actively train with 8 tons, but 40 tons is his limit in base: he can have the weight put on him, but is incapable of actually moving properly with it and needs Super Saiyan to do so.
- Anyone below Base Buu Saga Goku should not scale to Class 50 physically without specific direct evidence.
- 10 tons per limb.
- 40 tons total.
- He can move with it easily as a Super Saiyan.
- Proposed: Class 50.
- This acts as the clean Super Saiyan Buu Saga LS benchmark.
- Characters comparable to or above Super Saiyan Buu Saga Goku can scale to Class 50 unless contradicted.
- However, this shouldn't be used to backscale weaker base forms or earlier arcs past their own explicit caps.
- Note: If the 10G Heaven statement is posted, these past two change accordingly.
- However, this shouldn't be used to backscale weaker base forms or earlier arcs past their own explicit caps.
- Super Saiyan Vegeta trains under 150G.
- Using Vegeta's 56 kg bodyweight:
- 56 kg x 150G = 8,400 kg.
- Proposed: At least Class 10 for this specific gravity-training benchmark.
- This fits the Buu Saga chain, since it is in the same range as Base Goku's 8 ton training, and the escalation from prior gravity-training.
- Base Trunks cannot handle it, but Super Saiyan Trunks can.
- 30 kg x 150G = 4,500 kg.
- Proposed: At least Class 10 for this specific gravity-training benchmark.
- Vegeta fails to lift / move the 1,000 ton Metal Man.
- 1,000 tons would be Class M.
- Since Vegeta fails, this should be treated as a hard anti-feat against Class M for that key.
- Proposed: Below Class M for Universe 6 Arc Vegeta, with 1,000 tons acting as the failed-lift cap
we can discuss this one though. - This means anyone physically below Universe 6 Arc Vegeta should also be below Class M unless they have their own direct Class M feat that doesn't contradict the suggested scaling.
- Class M should not be backscaled to earlier Z or early Super characters from vague physical superiority.
- If later manga keys have direct Class M or higher feats, those can be discussed separately.
- But those should only apply from the point where the direct feat happens onward.
- They should not be backscaled below the Universe 6 Vegeta anti-feat.
These are the important caps I think the profiles should follow:
- Anyone below pre-Kaio Saiyan Saga Goku should not scale above to far past the 620 kg / Class 1 benchmark without caveats.
- Anyone below post-100G Namek Goku should not scale to the 6.2 ton / Class 10 benchmark.
- Anyone below Android Saga Vegeta should not scale to the 16.8 ton / Class 25 benchmark.
- Anyone below Base Buu Saga Goku should not scale to Class 50, as Base Buu Saga Goku himself cannot handle 40 tons properly.
- Anyone comparable to or above Super Saiyan Buu Saga Goku can scale to Class 50 from the 40 ton feat.
- With gravity (if we presume that's consistent and was factored into the scene), that'd be 40 tons base (Class 50) and 400 tons Super Saiyan (Class K).
- Anyone below Universe 6 Arc Vegeta should never scale to Class M, as Universe 6 Vegeta himself is outright incapable of lifting a 1,000 ton opponent.
- Later direct Class M or higher feats should only apply to the later keys that actually scale to them.
Current:
- Class M / Class G style scaling from broad physical superiority and less direct feats.
- Use the direct numbered manga chain instead:
- Class 1 for Saiyan Saga Goku through 10G movement.
- Class 10 for Namek Saga Goku through 100G training.
- Class 25 for Android Saga Vegeta through 300G training, with strain.
- At least Class 10, below Class 50 for Base Buu Saga Goku.
- Class 50 for Super Saiyan Buu Saga Goku.
- Possibly Class 50 and Class K instead assuming Heaven has 10G (which last I checked it does, but I can't be assed to find a scan so someone can just post it and we can bump the rating up).
- Below Class M for Universe 6 Arc Vegeta due to the 1,000 ton Metal Man anti-feat.
- Later direct feats can upgrade later keys only, not earlier ones.
Dragon Ball's LS is weirdly low compared to its general power, but the direct progression is clear and should be used as the primary basis.
Note: this is only for the manga canon (though the general idea applies to all, the exact ratings may not be as straightforward or in some cases the roundabout feats may outweigh, those exact details aren't relevant here though and would need to be discussed in its own specific CRT). Anime Super has its own thing going on with far more showings, and Toei is a lil ******* freak of nature, they obviously knew how odd the discrepancy was and made an effort to inflate the LS (at least after a point).
This is technically a separate issue from the main CRT, but it's still worth mentioning because it affects one of the current LS justifications. So even if the main proposal is judged independently, rejected, or anything in-between, this calc should still not be used either way for the current Class G scaling.
The current Class G Namek rock formation feat isn't bad because the feat does not exist or anything like that. The feat does exist. Goku is pushed through/crushes part of the rock formation, and in a vacuum that could be treated as a physical feat.
The problem is that the current calc method drastically inflates the size of the formation.
The calc uses a Namekian tree as the main size reference, treating the tree as around 26-27 meters tall, then scales the rock formation and rift from that, with the formation and rift being treated as tens to hundreds of meters across due to it.
But that scaling basis is simply unreliable.
Namekian trees aren't a consistent fixed size. They vary massively depending on the shot or tree, with some being only a few meters tall at best, and others being much larger, tens of meters, within the same panel right next to each other at times. Using a random Namekian tree as the foundation of the entire scale is dubious at best. The best case for that kind of method could maybe be used as a last-resort "possibly" end if there were no better references.
But there are better references.
The actual chapter shows characters like Goku, Vegeta, and Freeza directly next to the same rock formation. This is the very rock where Vegeta is killed in front of even. We see the characters right by it, in front of it, and even around the damaged section afterward.
From those shots, the formation is blatantly not hundreds-of-meters-wide. It's only a few meters above the characters in the relevant area. The rift/crushed section is also nowhere near 100+ meters wide. It's more like a few meters wide, maybe around 3-4 meters depending on the panel, and in some shots it's barely a couple Goku-widths across, as Goku stands right next to it.
So the current Class G result isn't just "high". It's specifically inflated by using a bad scaling reference when direct character references exist in the same scene.
(Though that isn't the calcer's fault, from older posts seen floating around, he was allegedly just sent specific panels and asked to calc it as was).
The current calc's main issue isn't even that it finds a higher LS result than the direct progression. The more blatant issue is that the Class G value itself isn't actually supported by the visuals and even outright contradicted. If the feat were recalced from the consistent character-adjacent shots instead of a random Namekian tree, it would get nowhere near the current Class G value.
It might still land above the proposed direct chain. Maybe Class K, maybe Class M depending on the exact method. But the current Class G result shouldn't be used regardless as the size assumption is visibly and provably wrong.
Best case scenario, it's a higher isolated feat that still might not even be usable given the suggestions here, but even then, it shouldn't be used to justify Class G lifting strength across Namek Saga characters when the calc itself relies on an unreliable tree scale and ignores the much better character-scale shots in the same sequence even if we were to ignore the main CRT entirely.
The current Class G Namek rock formation feat isn't bad because the feat does not exist or anything like that. The feat does exist. Goku is pushed through/crushes part of the rock formation, and in a vacuum that could be treated as a physical feat.
The problem is that the current calc method drastically inflates the size of the formation.
The calc uses a Namekian tree as the main size reference, treating the tree as around 26-27 meters tall, then scales the rock formation and rift from that, with the formation and rift being treated as tens to hundreds of meters across due to it.
But that scaling basis is simply unreliable.
Namekian trees aren't a consistent fixed size. They vary massively depending on the shot or tree, with some being only a few meters tall at best, and others being much larger, tens of meters, within the same panel right next to each other at times. Using a random Namekian tree as the foundation of the entire scale is dubious at best. The best case for that kind of method could maybe be used as a last-resort "possibly" end if there were no better references.
But there are better references.
The actual chapter shows characters like Goku, Vegeta, and Freeza directly next to the same rock formation. This is the very rock where Vegeta is killed in front of even. We see the characters right by it, in front of it, and even around the damaged section afterward.
From those shots, the formation is blatantly not hundreds-of-meters-wide. It's only a few meters above the characters in the relevant area. The rift/crushed section is also nowhere near 100+ meters wide. It's more like a few meters wide, maybe around 3-4 meters depending on the panel, and in some shots it's barely a couple Goku-widths across, as Goku stands right next to it.
So the current Class G result isn't just "high". It's specifically inflated by using a bad scaling reference when direct character references exist in the same scene.
(Though that isn't the calcer's fault, from older posts seen floating around, he was allegedly just sent specific panels and asked to calc it as was).
The current calc's main issue isn't even that it finds a higher LS result than the direct progression. The more blatant issue is that the Class G value itself isn't actually supported by the visuals and even outright contradicted. If the feat were recalced from the consistent character-adjacent shots instead of a random Namekian tree, it would get nowhere near the current Class G value.
It might still land above the proposed direct chain. Maybe Class K, maybe Class M depending on the exact method. But the current Class G result shouldn't be used regardless as the size assumption is visibly and provably wrong.
Best case scenario, it's a higher isolated feat that still might not even be usable given the suggestions here, but even then, it shouldn't be used to justify Class G lifting strength across Namek Saga characters when the calc itself relies on an unreliable tree scale and ignores the much better character-scale shots in the same sequence even if we were to ignore the main CRT entirely.
