everything I’ve gone by is what’s said in the faq
It doesn’t only say emulate in the faq, it also says that you can influence things in a qualitatively superior manner if powered by a 1-A source
There is a difference between can and is, I can run, that doesn’t mean I am
If they can increase a non 1-A power to a 1-A amount, which the faq literally says they can, why would they not be able to decrease a 1-A power by a 1-A amount
Crux of the matter is that 1-A precisely doesn't really work by amounts. Receiving a 1-A amp wouldn't be an expansion of the strength that you already have (lower-dimensionally, at least) so much as you being granted a different sort of power entirely.
The faq literally says the exact opposite of this “
The bit about "a straightforward power boost" is ambiguous, yeah. Usually by a "power boost" we think of taking a power we already possess and then expanding (boosting) it. Being granted (or awakening, makes no difference) a different kind of power entirely can intelligibly be called a power boost but it's not really an usual one. Can probably be clarified a bit better (and tbh already is, if you read the other parts of the FAQ).
galactus is granting his heralds a portion of his own power not boosting their power
Yeah and that's exactly the problem. Surfer's entire kit is downstream from the Power Cosmic, including the stuff that's decisively not 1-A. A 1-A thing having non-1-A portions is what goes against the entire premise of the tier (And you can't really claim the explanation pages say otherwise because it's plastered everywhere that 1-A can't be divided down into non-1-A).
Yes, a 1-A source can decide to act on your behalf to perform 1-A actions. That does not mean that 1-A forces can exist in lower realities (in fact, the FAQ says the exact opposite).
It should probably say "grant" rather than "boost", sure.
Tiering system faq doesn’t say a 1-A being can’t do non 1-A actions, which would be ridiculous if it did since it’s possible for a real person to make stuff in a fictional verse happen and that stuff the real person is making happen is still fictional but caused by a 1-A power, not being able to be split into non 1-A doesn’t mean not able to cause non 1-A effects
the faq literally says that a non 1-A being empowered by a 1-A force can effect stuff on a qualitatively superior level
Regardless of that, it doesn’t mean that a 1-A power can’t cause non 1-A effects
If the entirety of their being is changed into being a 1-A one, then sure, but that makes them unable to reside in smaller space.
They can cause non 1-A effects, but they do this by having dominion over all of reality through their superiority over it, not by splitting their superiority into less than 1-A chunks, and then sending those off to do things. That is not possible.
Wouldn't say this is limited to 1-A forces puppeteering lower characters, but we can probably discuss that elsewhere (And later because I don't feel like it rn). Not relevant to this thread anyway.
Yeah, obviously they can do non-1-A actions, but there's a difference between, e.g., a 1-A character making a piece of bread pop up ex nihilo in a lower reality and a 1-A character actually fragmenting a piece of its own power. The latter kind of thing, some process of the 1-A fissioning itself into a non-1-A thing, is what doesn't really happen.
it doesn’t say they can’t reside in a smaller space, the faq literally gives an example of a being in a lower reality being 1-A
My point is that silver surfer can be 1-A and cause non 1-A effects, and he could very easily not realize he’s able to cause 1-A effects or choose to not cause 1-A effects and thus only causes non 1-A effects despite the fact that he can cause 1-A effects
Yes it does.
Quote it, and I'll tell you how you're misunderstanding it.
If so, then he cannot reside in smaller realities.
In that exact same group of paragraphs it explains there are exceptions
“That said, while they cannot be at this level by having their own physical power increased, they might be endowed with, or awaken, metaphysical attributes that allow them to imitate and influence things on a 1-A and higher scale. For example, consider the following scenario: A cosmology that includes both a physical level and an "informational" level that both transcends the physical and holds the "coding" of all the things in it. An entity capable of influencing the informational level then "locks" a certain person's code, and makes them unable to be interfered with even by other beings on a similar level to itself. This alteration to the metaphysical make-up of the person then emanates downwards into their physical body, and likewise makes them unable to be harmed by anything in the physical world.”
And those exceptions are exactly of the kind we discussed earlier, which do not apply to this thread.
Yeah, this does not involve any 1-A energy entering lower space, or the character being made physically stronger. It's just metaphysical hax.
Those exceptions are literally what happens with silver surfer
in the very next paragraph it says that doing that is making the lower character 1-A
You haven't been arguing for that.
It's very clear that we index it as "1-A durability", without it actually being that:
What are you talking about, my whole argument has been that he’s granted the ability to be 1-A by galactus
Okay, so he’d still be indexed as having 1-A, if that was found to be consistent, and all of the 1-A stuff that silver surfer interacts with would be just him interacting with the indexed 1-A not actual 1-A version of them
Being granted 1-A isn't an exception!!!!!
You still can't directly & meaningfully interact with that stuff without having 1-A power.
The exceptions are literally that a 1-A entity alters you to be 1-A
why would “indexed “1-A” but not actually 1-A” not be able to interact with “indexed “1-A” but not actually 1-A”
Eh, kind of I guess
That's an exception to a different restriction (that a less than 1-A being cannot gain 1-A power).
Oh, I thought you were saying some less than 1-A stuff would be able to interact with it. mb
The faq literally gives the example of an artist making a drawing within the fictional world, said drawing would obviously be in a smaller space still, silver surfer is the drawing and galactus is the artist, which would qualify for “indexed as “1-A” but not actually 1-A”
Low 1-C is getting remove because we (I, specifically) made a thread that originally scaled them to God Realms which was 5-D at the time of the thread but recent research has made it know that God Realms are actually Low 1-A and are currently getting upgrade to that and the heralds getting downgraded to their previous tier which was High 3-A.
Both Thor and Hulk are almost useless when it comes to scaling because of their holding back and varying power level
No 1-A scans
How powerful are the proemial gods?
The celestials vary in their M-body and when they are in universe. So no 1-A.
"6 Soul gems" not "6 infinity gem/stones".
Weakened Knull and knull is weak to light nature.
"The Hunger is upon me". Galactus was hungry. He also vary.
The infinity stones individually vary in nature and they have to be together to be 1-A. Thor also consistently stronger than Silver Surfer.
It contradicts it.
Wasn't the Surfer amped?
Already answered this
This scan is not enough.
Low 1-A
Stranger is a fraud and should be downgraded to Low 1-A
Already answered this
A very vague statement.
Already answered this.
Outlier and Galactus vary.
Ronan Is 3-C
Wonder Man is 5-B
Peak Strange is 1- A and we don't always know when he is operating at that level.
Seriously, this is an Outlier. With this it would be Surfer > Galactus > The Griever instead of Griever > Galactus > Surfer
This is not what you were arguing for earlier
You haven't posted any scans to go along with this significant change in interpretation. And you weren't really forthcoming with the fact that your interpretation has moved from "It's fine for Silver Surfer's atoms to be 1-A" to "Of course Silver Surfer's not actually 1-A physically, Galactus is just imitating those effects on his behalf."
Nah bro you're spitting truth
Shameless special pleading
What? I'm not leaning either way on this debate. I've not read much Silver Surfer so I have no opinion on whether he scales to this or not. But it is objectively true that Marvel's verse works differently than our tiering system does. It is ridiculous to make up rules about cosmology and then impose them on a verse that has existed for decades. If there are contradictions, then our job is to find a semblance of consistent in-universe logic and use our tiering system to catalogue that. It is not the job of writers to make their cosmology and power systems fall in line with our site's strict definition of a word we made up. The system is great for organizing and labeling events in stories, but we can't act as if those stories have a responsibility to follow our rules.
Holy powerscaler brainrot. Imagine saying that Marvel is the only verse that somehow doesn’t follow VSBW logic; do you think other verses don’t have issues with the TS either? How does that matter to them? We simply scale characters if they fit the standards, if they don’t then they don’t. There’s no contradiction to characters fighting certain other characters but it just so means that this interaction might delimit them to a tier. And so be it.
Powerscaler brainrot is literally the thing I am arguing against. I am saying that the story should take precedence over our rules for powerscaling terms.
Obviously not what I'm saying, and the fact that other verses have issues proves my point. That is exactly why we need to prioritize each verse's own rules over the TS rules.
There’s a reason why the TS exists and that’s to sort of the differences between these.
As much as I agree that marvel’s system doesn’t perfectly line up with our tiering system, no verse’s system perfectly matches our tiering system, the best we can do is just try our best to make it fit and if that makes them stronger or weaker then they should be so be it
1-A and up used to not be such large of a jump. Our tiering system used to effectively cap at what is currently High 1-B+ (technically it was also open to anything higher, but that's where the minimum of the highest tier was).
I sympathize with that sentiment, yeah. I myself think that people will sometimes radicalize 1-A's "inaccessibility" to high heavens, since, really, the inaccessibility in question is just supposed to be downstream from the definition of the tier: 1-A superiority is such that it can't be added up to by non-1-A + non-1-A, nor divided down into them, therefore, etc. Other formulations like "1-A and non-1-A are in different qualitative levels and the latter can't affect the former" and so on are just restating the same concept as the former description. There's not much else to it and I'd rather not mystify it. That's what it is. And this same simplicity is why I tend to be charitable towards potential anti-feats: If there's a way to reconcile it, I'm amenable to it as long as there are proper explanations, roughly same as how, if a character is incorporeal and another character punches it out, our takeaway will be that the latter dude has Non-Physical Interaction, rather than that the incorporeality in question simply doesn't grant immunity to physical attacks, or that the punch is an anti-feat for the incorporeality (The disanalogy being that, for 1-A, we require a mechanism, e.g. "power comes from the 1-A realm and such and such", and not just a showing, whereas we don't demand a mechanism for having NPI).
Please,
Then it js doesn’t meet the requirements?? Literally any other verse would get downgraded for this.
