ExcelsisBerny
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I'm gonna respond later with my last comment about this discussion. I'm tired rn.
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Undertale: The big part of the series of big revisions, featuring Tier 1 and other things (Part 3/4)
- Thread starter StrymULTRA
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Something about Low 2-C Undertale lol
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Everything boils down whether the SAVE File makes the Game World qualify for a Low 1-C Hypertimeline, given that said SAVE would exists in a higher temporal dimension encompassing all the timelines generated from LOADs and RESETs (ignore all the intercourse of the Hyper Goner stuff that died quick), which basically sums up as this:
- Low 1-C argument: The SAVE File exists in a higher temporal dimension due to it being a constant between timelines that is also superior and independent to them in nature given that it still counted time after the Hyper Goner has destroyed the timeline, which supports the idea of the Game World existing as a higher-dimensional space-time that encompasses all the timelines within itself given that Sans seemed to say that timelines stop a start in a single flow of time in the same space-time continuum.
- Anti Low 1-C argument (from what I got): The SAVE File recording the time after the destruction of the timeline is just it recording the progress of the Player, and Sans' statement is just him talking about a general time anomaly.
Ghengiroo115
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Ye I know, I had reworded my post a bit before sending it and didn’t proofread it properly.
ShakeResounding
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Phew, read through all the blogs.
I agree with the JP version of Undertale being usable in regards to gleaming extra context and information where the ENG version lacks. Undertale is a case where such a thing should be valid due to the heavy involvement from Toby Fox himself on the project. As you mention, it being treated as secondary/supplementary canon should be perfectly fine in that regard. Other franchises have similar such cases because of the way their teams handle the canon between multiple language versions. I think some fail to realize it's not a single strict ruling for this sort of thing on the wiki, moreso just a firm guideline in regards to franchises that don't care or put in as much effort.
I agree with the updated blog for Immeasurable Speed for the God Tiers of Undertale, and considering the Hyper Goner is literally stated to destroy the timeline in JP UT then I'm pretty sure that makes Immeasurable LS valid as well via resisting its suction.
I agree with everything under "Lesser Stuff".
The Counter-Arguments blog looks pretty solid!
In regards to Low 1-C, just to make sure I'm not misrepresenting the argument; the premise is that the Save File is all-encompassing regarding the created timelines, and that it exists on a higher independent axis (higher because of its meta-fictional relationship) that leaves it entirely unaffected by the state of said timelines even when they are erased entirely? I think the argument works tbh.Mfw staff have enough and decide to nuke Hypertimelines into oblivion
Solid thread overall, good work!
I agree with the JP version of Undertale being usable in regards to gleaming extra context and information where the ENG version lacks. Undertale is a case where such a thing should be valid due to the heavy involvement from Toby Fox himself on the project. As you mention, it being treated as secondary/supplementary canon should be perfectly fine in that regard. Other franchises have similar such cases because of the way their teams handle the canon between multiple language versions. I think some fail to realize it's not a single strict ruling for this sort of thing on the wiki, moreso just a firm guideline in regards to franchises that don't care or put in as much effort.
I agree with the updated blog for Immeasurable Speed for the God Tiers of Undertale, and considering the Hyper Goner is literally stated to destroy the timeline in JP UT then I'm pretty sure that makes Immeasurable LS valid as well via resisting its suction.
I agree with everything under "Lesser Stuff".
The Counter-Arguments blog looks pretty solid!
In regards to Low 1-C, just to make sure I'm not misrepresenting the argument; the premise is that the Save File is all-encompassing regarding the created timelines, and that it exists on a higher independent axis (higher because of its meta-fictional relationship) that leaves it entirely unaffected by the state of said timelines even when they are erased entirely? I think the argument works tbh.
Solid thread overall, good work!
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No comment.
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Since everthing has pretty much been debunked i'll just answer to thisAlright, let me address this.
The Rhombs are supposed to be the "memories" of the friends Frisk has made along the way. He will get rid of everything Frisk has built up and start anew, which isn't possible if there's nothing to build upon in the first place.
We already know from Omega Flowey that he didn't quite destroy the timeline, he simply edited it, which are VASTLY different feats.
In fact, the Underground remained completely untouched for the entire duration of the fight, NOTHING was damaged even after Hypergoner was used. And no, Asriel simply didn't "reset" to a point where all the damage was undone, nothing states or proves that.
I will say, I still firmly can believe the verse is L2C, the problem is there aren't really infinite space-time continuums/alternate timelines to justify any actual infinite anything, let alone L1C, and Asriel having infinite stats doesn't really equate to much when we see that Asriel finds it extremely difficult to kill Frisk. If it truly were infinite damage, that soul would be ERASED without even a sliver of a chance for Frisk to come back. The fact he finds it surprising Frisk can escape, not tank, escape the Hypergoner isn't really substantial proof that Frisk has that durability/AP. As for the fact they can escape leading to immeasurabe speed, again, what Asriel is ridding is of the journey Frisk has made. To "clean" the timeline and whatever is inside it, NOT other timelines entirely. They still exist. Where this scales is kinda weird and I personally wouldn't try to scale it.
How can the hyper goner,which happens outside of Asriel and only sucks things outside of him,suck the memories of those who are inside Asriel Evan's dusttale style? And why would the memories even physicall in the first place it makes no sense (also Asriel stated that every time frisk died the monsters lost part of their memories about them)
Also you don't need infinite space times continuums to scale to 5d lol
EnderLord8
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I agree with the CRT
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Well L1c has already been agreed by 2 mods,phoenks just dissagread with immesurable Lf so this tread is actually very close to being acepted
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Phoenks is not a VSBW staff, he's a FCOC one. Only DDM vote counts here.
SnakesCity
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Our wings can't melt if they're made of Hopes and Dreams
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Not really because of meta-relationship, but because of it proving that the game world works a higher space-time with a superior time axis compared to the timelines.
ShakeResounding
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Ahhh, okay, my apologies.
I don't see a glaring issue with it from that standpoint. Just gotta get some more mods in here I suppose.
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I actually ******* adore this image lmao, brilliant.
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I think we would need 3 staff approvals here anyways instead of just 2.
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Nobody said otherwise lol.
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Oh right, I misread. Mb.
AyOgUyS
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dragon ball and sonic obviously
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Agree with the OP from what I've read.
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1 MORE VOTE GRAHHHHHHHHHHH
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Neutral, leaning a bit towards agree. I can see it having an extra temporal dimension but at the same time I don't see enough evidence.
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I assume it's fine to apply it, given that we're now with 3-0 staff votes, no?
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There is a waiting period before the changes can be applied innit?
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48 hours after the beginning of the thread if votes are enough.
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Ah, I see. In that case, 2 is generally enough for the changes to be applied.
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For Tier 1 threads and Controversial verses, it's pretty much a minimum of 3; this qualifies for both. Personally I'd go for 4 or 5 if this was my thread, but technically grace started when Plank voted, so do with that what you will.
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Hence why I asked if it's enough, yeah.
Though Undertale isn't yet in the list of controversial verses, mind you.
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Yeah you can apply it right now, 3 staff votes is enough for tier 1 (except 1A+ stuff).
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I mean, fair enough I guess, but let's be real it's gonna get added lol.
Not yet; grace still has to end, which it hasn't.
Anonymous_Learner
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isn't 48 hours after the thread was created and the thread was created sunday?
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CRT grace applies after it's creation, not acceptance.
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It is 48 hours after thread creation, which has long passed.
It can be applied, especially given all votes so far have been admin votes.
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Alright, then I need for the following pages to be unlocked:
Asriel Dreemurr (Flowey)
Flowey the Flower is one of the main antagonists in Undertale. He first appears in the Ruin, attempting to kill Frisk for their soul before being chased by Toriel. Following this event, the flower will stalk Frisk through the Underground, something appearing to mock them before culminating in...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Frisk
Frisk is the protagonist of Undertale and the eighth human to fall into the Underground. Virtually nothing is known about their life prior to their fall, as even their gender remains ambiguous. Being taken in by Toriel, they eventually decide to leave and explore the Underground to potentially...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Chara
Chara was the first human to fall into the Underground. They were adopted by King Asgore and Queen Toriel after being rescued by their son Asriel, becoming an adoptive member of the family. Not much is know about the child's past or personality while they were alive, but they were described by...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Sans
sans is a supporting character and the Genocide Route's final boss in the video game; Undertale. He is one of the guards of Snowdin Village. Lazy and frivolous with a knack for making puns and jokes, he has no interest in capturing humans, much to the chagrin of his brother, Papyrus. Despite his...
vsbattles.fandom.com
The Player (Undertale)
The Player Entity is an enigmatic creature that influences Frisk throughout Undertale. Due to seeing Undertale's world as a mere game and its characters as fictional, they seem to lack empathy for the characters and are willing to even kill all of them just to see a different ending. While their...
vsbattles.fandom.com
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I have unlocked the pages.Alright, then I need for the following pages to be unlocked:
Asriel Dreemurr (Flowey)
Flowey the Flower is one of the main antagonists in Undertale. He first appears in the Ruin, attempting to kill Frisk for their soul before being chased by Toriel. Following this event, the flower will stalk Frisk through the Underground, something appearing to mock them before culminating in...Frisk
Frisk is the protagonist of Undertale and the eighth human to fall into the Underground. Virtually nothing is known about their life prior to their fall, as even their gender remains ambiguous. Being taken in by Toriel, they eventually decide to leave and explore the Underground to potentially...Chara
Chara was the first human to fall into the Underground. They were adopted by King Asgore and Queen Toriel after being rescued by their son Asriel, becoming an adoptive member of the family. Not much is know about the child's past or personality while they were alive, but they were described by...Sans
sans is a supporting character and the Genocide Route's final boss in the video game; Undertale. He is one of the guards of Snowdin Village. Lazy and frivolous with a knack for making puns and jokes, he has no interest in capturing humans, much to the chagrin of his brother, Papyrus. Despite his...The Player (Undertale)
The Player Entity is an enigmatic creature that influences Frisk throughout Undertale. Due to seeing Undertale's world as a mere game and its characters as fictional, they seem to lack empathy for the characters and are willing to even kill all of them just to see a different ending. While their...
Also, I would suggest gathering all the sandboxes in the OP into a single coherent blog.
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Oopsy daisy, my bad lol.
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You may have confuse CRT grace with Vs threads.
Oopsy daisy, my bad lol.
Crazy how ive been here this long and I'm only now learning about this-
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Tbf I tried to but I really can't because a lot of things would end up looking like circular arguments (the counter arguments especially) and the blog would end up pretty uncomfortable to read given that the reader would need to jump at different sections of the blog while reading it instead of a linear way. Given that both Hyper Goner and Cosmology are controversial enough to require their own share of counter argument, it was decided for simplicity's sake to make a blog for each of them.
Kingdom Hearts also does this for its blogs, while it has a single cosmology page, there are other sections which elaborate on it like the Hypertime aspect which has its own blog, same with the misconceptions one.
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I'm ready to throw the fisticuffs
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