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As some are aware, in a semi-recent thread, the Dream Stone and those who scale to it or use it's power got downgraded due to so-called translation issues.
I'm not going to go into the semantics of arguing over wording used because that would just be annoying.
However, I think a simple counter to the basis of the Stones not being made of Dreams and Nightmares is the less-focused-on Dark Stone. It was hiding in plain sight, really.
In Japanese, while the Stones are initially said by Dreambert to be made of the "power of Dreams" and likewise nightmares for the Dark Stone, if one is to look into more of the game, as well as see more of that cutscene itself, we see that Antasma shattering the Dark Stone sent fragments of nightmares across the lands, petrifying the Islanders and trapping their souls inside of the Nightmare Chunks (Nightmare Fragments).
Now, I ask a simple question: How can one deny the English translation that says the Stones are made up of the Dreams and Nightmares themselves when even the Japanese version treats the literal chunks of the shattered Dark Stone as nightmares? Nightmares are the dark equivalent of dreams, so I will not hear "the nightmares are inferior" or whatever when all context points to the Stones being equals. So, via common sense, the Dream Stone would have to also be made of dreams as well.
It's likely that "power of dreams" is akin to something like saying an atomic bomb is made up of the power of atoms. They simply just house the power source inside of them. It doesn't invalidate the English translation at all given we can literally see that the Dark Stone is made of nightmares in both versions.
So, on this basis, I propose that the Dream Stone and Dark Stone and those who scale to it or use their power should all be upgraded back up to 2-B again.
Evidence of characters effecting the Dream Worlds that the Dream Stone would scale above are:
Here, where Luigi is stated to become one with the dream, where he can also Manipulate space as well as the time within them
There's also Antasma, who could manipulate the entire Dream World casually as well as is stated to eat them
The proposed value for how many dreams the Dream Stone absorbed during the events of Dream Team is being discussed, but it's likely to be 2-C to a lower tier of 2-B.
Agree (21): JTgamer96, Mephistus, StretchSebe, Remus1998, Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E, DarkDragonMedeus, ZespeonGalaxy, The_Unknown_Warrior1, Eseseso, CloverDragon03, AStrangeverse, AParticularInduvidial, JJSliderman (thinks it should be a lower 2-B though), y3p_owo, Uuber1, Dereck03 (lower 2-B), QrowBarr, LordGriffin1000, ProfectusInfinity, Firestorm808, Celestial_Pegasus
Neutral:
Disagree:
I expect this thread to go over well given the very clear counter to the entire basis of the downgrade thread previously. Either find more compelling evidence the Stones aren't literally made of what powers them like the game very clearly shows or you have no argument.
I'm not going to go into the semantics of arguing over wording used because that would just be annoying.
However, I think a simple counter to the basis of the Stones not being made of Dreams and Nightmares is the less-focused-on Dark Stone. It was hiding in plain sight, really.
In Japanese, while the Stones are initially said by Dreambert to be made of the "power of Dreams" and likewise nightmares for the Dark Stone, if one is to look into more of the game, as well as see more of that cutscene itself, we see that Antasma shattering the Dark Stone sent fragments of nightmares across the lands, petrifying the Islanders and trapping their souls inside of the Nightmare Chunks (Nightmare Fragments).
Now, I ask a simple question: How can one deny the English translation that says the Stones are made up of the Dreams and Nightmares themselves when even the Japanese version treats the literal chunks of the shattered Dark Stone as nightmares? Nightmares are the dark equivalent of dreams, so I will not hear "the nightmares are inferior" or whatever when all context points to the Stones being equals. So, via common sense, the Dream Stone would have to also be made of dreams as well.
It's likely that "power of dreams" is akin to something like saying an atomic bomb is made up of the power of atoms. They simply just house the power source inside of them. It doesn't invalidate the English translation at all given we can literally see that the Dark Stone is made of nightmares in both versions.
So, on this basis, I propose that the Dream Stone and Dark Stone and those who scale to it or use their power should all be upgraded back up to 2-B again.
Evidence of characters effecting the Dream Worlds that the Dream Stone would scale above are:
Here, where Luigi is stated to become one with the dream, where he can also Manipulate space as well as the time within them
There's also Antasma, who could manipulate the entire Dream World casually as well as is stated to eat them
The proposed value for how many dreams the Dream Stone absorbed during the events of Dream Team is being discussed, but it's likely to be 2-C to a lower tier of 2-B.
Agree (21): JTgamer96, Mephistus, StretchSebe, Remus1998, Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E, DarkDragonMedeus, ZespeonGalaxy, The_Unknown_Warrior1, Eseseso, CloverDragon03, AStrangeverse, AParticularInduvidial, JJSliderman (thinks it should be a lower 2-B though), y3p_owo, Uuber1, Dereck03 (lower 2-B), QrowBarr, LordGriffin1000, ProfectusInfinity, Firestorm808, Celestial_Pegasus
Neutral:
Disagree:
I expect this thread to go over well given the very clear counter to the entire basis of the downgrade thread previously. Either find more compelling evidence the Stones aren't literally made of what powers them like the game very clearly shows or you have no argument.
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