[Accepted] Kishin Seiken (Demonic Sword) Multiplier

[WindyAttack]

Dawg it has not even been a full day since you had a moderator outright tell you to chill out on the bad faith accusations
Atp are you trying to rage bait me or something lmao

Johan's wording is that Daniel uses techiques that can ONLY be COMPLETED with a perfect physique and that even ATTEMPTING TO to perfom them WITHOUT a perfect physique would put him in extreme pain, he NEVER says ANYTHING about physical attributes or stats while talking to Jake, and physical attributes have never been mentioned when character talk about UI Daniel, only his physique being perfect, his experience being perfect and him having mastered all martial arts, it's always about techique or skill, or how his physique is supernaturally perfect.
Also a physique does NOT mean JUST physical capabilities(stats) but also the shape and size of their body, muscles, bones, frame, muscle elasticity, shoulder span etc. Johan's physical capabilities are not the only factor here and claiming otherwise is misunderstanding Johan's words which is what you are accusing me off.

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Also all of what you said literally supports my point bruh

If even ATTEMPTING to perfom UI Daniel's moves causes immense pain, which lead Johan to conclude that the only way to copy UI P Daniel is by literally firing up his muscles and nerves to mimick UI P Daniel's physique so he can he use his moves and even THEN he can ONLY fight like UI P Daniel FOR 10 SECONDS. Then that again by definition means that having a perfect body/physique is a prerequisite AND a requirement to performing the same moves and techiques as otherwise you won't be able to sustain fighting like that due to the immense pain from using said moves without the proper physique.

Which again brings me back to the fact that Johan and Daniel can copy gun and his techiques no problem with no strain to their body, yet both of them had to break their bodies down in order to temporarily fight like UI P Daniel

Trying to boil down the difference between Gun and UI Daniel as just a physical capabilities(stats) difference is completely ignoring UI Daniel's narratively

I really dislike this power scaler mentality of boiling down absolutely everything to stats and numbers at the expense of media literacy, to the point where UI Daniel's whole shtick is being boiled down to him just hitting harder


Why are you wording it as a question? That's literally what happened bruh
By the time Daniel regained consciousness he was on top of Gun and had broken Gun's arm

Not to mention that Gun is an endurance based tank AND a sadomasochistic battle maniac, Gun being able to fight Daniel till sunrise is a stamina and endurance feat not a skill feat, especially since the fight happened off screen and UI P Daniel fights every person diffrently

i also already outlined in a previous comment how Gun's fighting style and being an endurance tank and a sadomasochist + having UI helped him fare better against UI Daniel compared to most people, UI Daniel can't create distance between them via punishment (Google an explanation of how professional fighters measure distance and punish their opponents with jabs to keep them from getting too close) AND his endurance means Gun can last for quite a well, however based on the aftermath to conclude that it was an even match is again disenganeous given fhat from what little we do see Gun was getting ragdolled for most of the fight and was only able to land hits by taking hits in exchange (as I outlined above and in my prior post Gun's fighting style somewhat counters UI Daniel's fighting style)

Again Daniel DID win he broke Gun's arm and was on top of him. Their fight got interrupted because Daniel regained unconsciousness had the fight continued UI Daniel would have won as we saw in HFG even if YUI Gun came out it wouldn't have changed anything lol

I'll repeat again if the ONLY way to perfom said techiques is to have a perfect physique so your body can 'handle the strain' like you said and that even ATTEMPTING to perfom said techiques causes immense pain otherwise then by definition means they are exclusive to someone with a perfect body.

There is no proof that Johan can perfom these techiques normally, the only statement we have is that Johan even attempting to perfom them would cause him immense pain, and there is even LESS proof that Johan was reffering to physical capabilities.

How would the UI Daniel Johan fought in 3A even have GREATER physical capabilities than Johan in the first place given that we KNOW that UI Daniel adjusts his stats to match his opponent? Johan copying UI Daniel for his stats rather than his techiques would go against both narrative AND THE WHOLE POINT OF UI DANIEL'S CHARACTER

He is described as fighting like a machine that gives perfect responses ans counters to every move, to the point where literally the only way for Gun to beat him was to exploit that.

Again you NEVER proved or provided ANY evidence that Johan being unable to fully copy UI Daniel's fighting style due to lacking a perfect physique is due to lacking physical abbilities or that having a perfect physique just makes the techiques more effective

You've just been making baseless assetions that it has to do with their physical capabilities stats when Johan never even mentions physical capabilities or effectiveness in his comsversation with Jake, what he says instead is that the ONLY way to COMPLETE(as in perform) those techiques is by having a perfect physique and that even attempting to do so otherwise will cause immense pain

UI P Daniel's combat abbility is inherently tied to his techiques that are tied to his perfect physique

Also AGAIN Gun and Daniel's combat abbility has NEVER been directly compared by ANYONE in lookism INCLUDING LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE PERSON THAT HAS EVER FOUGHT GUN AND INCLUDING GUN HIMSELF

You would think that if Gun had the same combat abbility as UI Daniel he would comment on that but instead the only comments we get is Gun stating TWICE that he is SCARED, and given that we KNOW UI Daniel adjusts his stats (which comes from Gun himself btw) the only logical conclusion we can reach is that Gun felt scared because of UI Daniel's absurd skill level and techique

Again you are yet to prove that Johan was reffering to physical execution/effectiveness when he explained to Jake why he can't copy UI Daniel under normal circumstances


Again more baseless bad faith accusations

If I am open to debate I am bad faith if I am not open to debate I am stubborn this is literally a catch 22

Also I don't think you actually know what bad faith means bru

Bad faith ≠ disagreeing with you

Bad faith means I am arguing disenganeously or trying to push an agenda if I overlooked or misinterpreted anything you said that would be due to me misunderstanding you not bad faith

I'm not sure why you think I'm wrong when it's already stated that Gun and UI Daniel have the same combat ability.

Premise 1: If two characters are stated to have the same combat ability and both are repeatedly stated to know and have mastered all martial arts, then skill cannot be the distinguishing factor between them.

Premise 2: Gun and UI Daniel are stated to have the same combat ability, and both are repeatedly stated to know and have mastered all martial arts.

Conclusion: Therefore, the only consistent distinguishing factor between them is their physique or physical attributes.

As we know, the Instagram statement was made after UI Daniel broke Gun's arm, demonstrating superior physical capability. Likewise, Johan had to break his own body just to copy UI Daniel for 10 seconds, whereas he never had to do that to copy Gun. That perfectly aligns with my argument that the difference between them comes from their physical attributes, especially since it's stated multiple times that both Gun and UI Daniel know and have mastered all martial arts.

And yes, I think you're arguing in bad faith, and I've genuinely lost all respect for you (not that I had much to begin with). I'm not saying that because you disagree with me. I'm saying it because of your self-righteous attitude, constantly trying to play the victim, repeatedly strawmanning my arguments, and openly misrepresenting the scans.

 

[WindyAttack]

You and Aksh about 3-4 comments above mine already summarized yall args and points so I didn't see why I'd reiterate the same thing instead of just summarizing the opposing side claim. The staff can just look through all 3 of our summarizations, especially since you two are before mine so he'd likely read yours first, really not a big deal....

It's fine then have a nice day

 

[WindyAttack]

Dawg it has not even been a full day since you had a moderator outright tell you to chill out on the bad faith accusations
Atp are you trying to rage bait me or something lmao

Johan's wording is that Daniel uses techiques that can ONLY be COMPLETED with a perfect physique and that even ATTEMPTING TO to perfom them WITHOUT a perfect physique would put him in extreme pain, he NEVER says ANYTHING about physical attributes or stats while talking to Jake, and physical attributes have never been mentioned when character talk about UI Daniel, only his physique being perfect, his experience being perfect and him having mastered all martial arts, it's always about techique or skill, or how his physique is supernaturally perfect.
Also a physique does NOT mean JUST physical capabilities(stats) but also the shape and size of their body, muscles, bones, frame, muscle elasticity, shoulder span etc. Johan's physical capabilities are not the only factor here and claiming otherwise is misunderstanding Johan's words which is what you are accusing me off.

Imgs:

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Also all of what you said literally supports my point bruh

If even ATTEMPTING to perfom UI Daniel's moves causes immense pain, which lead Johan to conclude that the only way to copy UI P Daniel is by literally firing up his muscles and nerves to mimick UI P Daniel's physique so he can he use his moves and even THEN he can ONLY fight like UI P Daniel FOR 10 SECONDS. Then that again by definition means that having a perfect body/physique is a prerequisite AND a requirement to performing the same moves and techiques as otherwise you won't be able to sustain fighting like that due to the immense pain from using said moves without the proper physique.

Which again brings me back to the fact that Johan and Daniel can copy gun and his techiques no problem with no strain to their body, yet both of them had to break their bodies down in order to temporarily fight like UI P Daniel

Trying to boil down the difference between Gun and UI Daniel as just a physical capabilities(stats) difference is completely ignoring UI Daniel's narratively

I really dislike this power scaler mentality of boiling down absolutely everything to stats and numbers at the expense of media literacy, to the point where UI Daniel's whole shtick is being boiled down to him just hitting harder


Why are you wording it as a question? That's literally what happened bruh
By the time Daniel regained consciousness he was on top of Gun and had broken Gun's arm

Not to mention that Gun is an endurance based tank AND a sadomasochistic battle maniac, Gun being able to fight Daniel till sunrise is a stamina and endurance feat not a skill feat, especially since the fight happened off screen and UI P Daniel fights every person diffrently

i also already outlined in a previous comment how Gun's fighting style and being an endurance tank and a sadomasochist + having UI helped him fare better against UI Daniel compared to most people, UI Daniel can't create distance between them via punishment (Google an explanation of how professional fighters measure distance and punish their opponents with jabs to keep them from getting too close) AND his endurance means Gun can last for quite a well, however based on the aftermath to conclude that it was an even match is again disenganeous given fhat from what little we do see Gun was getting ragdolled for most of the fight and was only able to land hits by taking hits in exchange (as I outlined above and in my prior post Gun's fighting style somewhat counters UI Daniel's fighting style)

Again Daniel DID win he broke Gun's arm and was on top of him. Their fight got interrupted because Daniel regained unconsciousness had the fight continued UI Daniel would have won as we saw in HFG even if YUI Gun came out it wouldn't have changed anything lol

I'll repeat again if the ONLY way to perfom said techiques is to have a perfect physique so your body can 'handle the strain' like you said and that even ATTEMPTING to perfom said techiques causes immense pain otherwise then by definition means they are exclusive to someone with a perfect body.

There is no proof that Johan can perfom these techiques normally, the only statement we have is that Johan even attempting to perfom them would cause him immense pain, and there is even LESS proof that Johan was reffering to physical capabilities.

How would the UI Daniel Johan fought in 3A even have GREATER physical capabilities than Johan in the first place given that we KNOW that UI Daniel adjusts his stats to match his opponent? Johan copying UI Daniel for his stats rather than his techiques would go against both narrative AND THE WHOLE POINT OF UI DANIEL'S CHARACTER

He is described as fighting like a machine that gives perfect responses ans counters to every move, to the point where literally the only way for Gun to beat him was to exploit that.

Again you NEVER proved or provided ANY evidence that Johan being unable to fully copy UI Daniel's fighting style due to lacking a perfect physique is due to lacking physical abbilities or that having a perfect physique just makes the techiques more effective

You've just been making baseless assetions that it has to do with their physical capabilities stats when Johan never even mentions physical capabilities or effectiveness in his comsversation with Jake, what he says instead is that the ONLY way to COMPLETE(as in perform) those techiques is by having a perfect physique and that even attempting to do so otherwise will cause immense pain

UI P Daniel's combat abbility is inherently tied to his techiques that are tied to his perfect physique

Also AGAIN Gun and Daniel's combat abbility has NEVER been directly compared by ANYONE in lookism INCLUDING LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE PERSON THAT HAS EVER FOUGHT GUN AND INCLUDING GUN HIMSELF

You would think that if Gun had the same combat abbility as UI Daniel he would comment on that but instead the only comments we get is Gun stating TWICE that he is SCARED, and given that we KNOW UI Daniel adjusts his stats (which comes from Gun himself btw) the only logical conclusion we can reach is that Gun felt scared because of UI Daniel's absurd skill level and techique

Again you are yet to prove that Johan was reffering to physical execution/effectiveness when he explained to Jake why he can't copy UI Daniel under normal circumstances


Again more baseless bad faith accusations

If I am open to debate I am bad faith if I am not open to debate I am stubborn this is literally a catch 22

Also I don't think you actually know what bad faith means bru

Bad faith ≠ disagreeing with you

Bad faith means I am arguing disenganeously or trying to push an agenda if I overlooked or misinterpreted anything you said that would be due to me misunderstanding you not bad faith

Holy, your reading comprehension is genuinely awful. I've already explained why Johan was referring to physical abilities rather than skill level, and you've still failed to prove that Johan had a complete understanding of Gun's physique.

And again, Johan explicitly says, "I can somewhat copy him, but to fully copy him, I'd need to replicate his Perfect Body." Ask yourself: what exactly separates UI Daniel's techniques from every other martial art Johan has copied? Johan can already perfectly copy Taekwondo, boxing, and countless other martial arts just by seeing them once. If the issue were purely skill, there would be no reason for him to replicate Daniel's physique. The fact that he specifically needs to copy Daniel's body shows that his physique provides a physical advantage that significantly enhances the execution and output of those techniques. That interpretation is directly supported by the evidence, whereas you've yet to provide any evidence for your own.

 

[Aksh_sky]

To explain it in simple terms

1) Claim: Daniel has X

2) Daniel was in situation A where he could have used X AND using X would have made sense

3) Daniel chose not to use X in situation A, even though he has no reason not to use X and it would make sense for him to use X

4) This is a logical inconsistency

Low tier reasoning lol... nothing implies he doesn't have X if he doesn't use it also if he has variations then again there's no reason for that.

Anyways i lwk won't really be involved in ts debate anymore because i can pretty much win easily if it's a proper formal debate with knowledgeable judges but since it's not my domain of intrest to run a semi-formal, I'll skip on this one. Though I'll cheer for windy.

 

[WindyAttack]

Bump

 

[Powerscalingcat]

Bump

 

[Powerscalingcat]

Ama be honest guys I ain't doing so hot

This heat wave is driving me insane and I've barely been sleeping, I am not feeling well at all so I am just gonna concede and wait to see what the moderators decide, I am still watching the thread and I'll try to bump it daily but I am completely fried at the moment and can't keep debating.

Good luck with the CRT and peace

 

[WindyAttack]

Bump

 

[Powerscalingcat]

Bump :3

 

[WindyAttack]

Bump

 

[Powerscalingcat]

Bump :3

 

[WindyAttack]

Bump

 

[Firestorm808]

Apologies. Can you break it down, piece by piece, the currently accepted scaling chain and multipliers and how the proposed 3x multiplier fits into this.

 

[Powerscalingcat]

Apologies. Can you break it down, piece by piece, the currently accepted scaling chain and multipliers and how the proposed 3x multiplier fits into this.

@WindyAttack @CatLover313 @Pyro9278

Good luck yall

 

[Aksh_sky]

Apologies. Can you break it down, piece by piece, the currently accepted scaling chain and multipliers and how the proposed 3x multiplier fits into this.

Basically what's happening here there's a technique known as CQC, which is already accepted as a 3x AP boost and the main premise of the first part of the OP is that there's a charecter knows as Daniel part and the author of this thread and me have proven that Daniel knows CQC and can use that technique, which means he can theoretically attain a 3x multiplier if he uses that technique. Now that is NOT his strongest technique as it's stated to be a technique knows as Kishin Seiken, thus Kishin Seiken should be at least a 3x multiplier.



Now for the second premises. There's another technique known as feint and counter that's used by Jaegyeon Na and Yujae Seon, in which if someone attacks at them, they basically deflect their attack back at them but with output 'many' times higher. And since a mod once said that 'several' at least would mean 3x and 'many' would mean 4x, therefore feind and counter should be a 4x multiplier. This is consistent because pre awakened Jaegyeon basically got one shotted by Yujae when he used this technique as he took 4 times his own attack's output.



For the third one, Death Kick and Dead Hand. These are Jaegyeon Na and Yujae Seon's unique skill, which basically are their strongest attacks respectively. Basically their ult. Now these are clearly stated to be their strongest attack and strongest technique and beyond their previous limit and all that, so those should also be at least a 4x multiplier from their base stats. This is consistent as the Death Kick one shotted Yujae Seon after Yujae literally defeated Jaegyeon with ease and Yujae hadn't even taken much damage either so this should be consistent. What also should make it consistent is that Yujae tried to use feint and counter on Death Kick but it didn't worked and Death Kick overpowered Yujae's feint and counter so it should be at least a 4x multiplier over base.



And since Yujae and Jaegyeon and narratively shown to be rivals and are shown to have equal similar techniques so obviously Dead Hand which is stronger than Death Kick, therefore it should also be an at least 4x multipler.

 

[WindyAttack]

Apologies. Can you break it down, piece by piece, the currently accepted scaling chain and multipliers and how the proposed 3x multiplier fits into this.

Argument 1: Kishin Seiken

1. CQC being a 3x multiplier was already accepted by the staff in a previous CRT, making it the established baseline.

2. Me and Aksh have already proven that Daniel has CQC in his arsenal through his Copy ability.

3. Kishin Seiken is explicitly stated to be the strongest attack in Daniel's arsenal.

Conclusion: Since CQC, a 3x multiplier, is part of Daniel's arsenal, and Kishin Seiken is explicitly stated to be superior to every attack in that same arsenal, Kishin Seiken must logically be at least a 3x multiplier.

Argument 2: OVT and Death Kick

1. OVT is stated to multiply the user's power many times over.

2. The majority agrees this supports at least a 4x multiplier for OVT.

3. Death Kick is portrayed as superior to OVT.

Conclusion: OVT should receive a 4x multiplier, while Death Kick should receive at least a 4x multiplier, with the only remaining disagreement being whether Death Kick should instead be rated as 5x.

 

[CatLover313]

Apologies. Can you break it down, piece by piece, the currently accepted scaling chain and multipliers and how the proposed 3x multiplier fits into this.

The first multiplier that was accepted was a 3x AP/LS multiplier to True Ultra Instinct for Gun Park (CRT here).

The 2nd multiplier accepted was for CQC (Close Quarter Combat) which is a martial arts in Lookism. There are two types: Regular CQC and a Custom-Style CQC. The CRT here was to give it a 3x multiplier because the Custom-Style CQC had a statement of "increasing the users power hundred-fold", but since that was seen as too much, it was lowered to 3x AP/Speed/LS. (All the regular version had was a statement of "Greatly increasing the user's power").

The only live disagreement is Kishin Seiken's proposed 3x multiplier, which hinges on whether Gun Park actually has Custom-Style CQC in his arsenal, covered above in many arguments with the main disagreement being that the link in the chain hasn't actually been demonstrated on-panel. Can summarize our reasons again but will leave it unless asked.

 

[WindyAttack]

The first multiplier that was accepted was a 3x AP/LS multiplier to True Ultra Instinct for Gun Park (CRT here).

The 2nd multiplier accepted was for CQC (Close Quarter Combat) which is a martial arts in Lookism. There are two types: Regular CQC and a Custom-Style CQC. The CRT here was to give it a 3x multiplier because the Custom-Style CQC had a statement of "increasing the users power hundred-fold", but since that was seen as too much, it was lowered to 3x AP/Speed/LS. (All the regular version had was a statement of "Greatly increasing the user's power").

The only live disagreement is Kishin Seiken's proposed 3x multiplier, which hinges on whether Gun Park actually has Custom-Style CQC in his arsenal, covered above in many arguments with the main disagreement being that the link in the chain hasn't actually been demonstrated on-panel. Can summarize our reasons again but will leave it unless asked.

U Forgot to mention that we had 2 different metas to prove Kishin Sekin > CQC

1) Gun Meta
2) Daniel Meta

 

[CatLover313]

U Forgot to mention that we had 2 different metas to prove Kishin Sekin > CQC

1) Gun Meta
2) Daniel Meta

I didn't forget anything, the Gun Meta and Daniel Meta both boil down to the same unresolved premise, so I summarized the core disagreement rather than listing every proposed argument, counterargument, rebuttal, etc. That's exactly why it needs staff oversight.

 

[Nonynho]

by reading OP, all proposed abilities should get 3x imo

didn't see enough to say 2x is enough for Kishin Seiken, as it is clearly on pair with CQC to say the least
But i also found the argument for 4x quite weak

So i'd agree with CQC, Kishin Seiken, Death Hand, Death Kick, Feint and Counter all having 3x multipliers.

 

[WindyAttack]

by reading OP, all proposed abilities should get 3x imo

didn't see enough to say 2x is enough for Kishin Seiken, as it is clearly on pair with CQC to say the least
But i also found the argument for 4x quite weak

So i'd agree with CQC, Kishin Seiken, Death Hand, Death Kick, Feint and Counter all having 3x multipliers.

"Many" Can't be lower then 4

 

[Nonynho]

"Many" Can't be lower then 4

won't lie i found OP's claim of such a bit weak, mate

 

[Powerscalingcat]

The first multiplier that was accepted was a 3x AP/LS multiplier to True Ultra Instinct for Gun Park (CRT here).

The 2nd multiplier accepted was for CQC (Close Quarter Combat) which is a martial arts in Lookism. There are two types: Regular CQC and a Custom-Style CQC. The CRT here was to give it a 3x multiplier because the Custom-Style CQC had a statement of "increasing the users power hundred-fold", but since that was seen as too much, it was lowered to 3x AP/Speed/LS. (All the regular version had was a statement of "Greatly increasing the user's power").

The only live disagreement is Kishin Seiken's proposed 3x multiplier, which hinges on whether Gun Park actually has Custom-Style CQC in his arsenal, covered above in many arguments with the main disagreement being that the link in the chain hasn't actually been demonstrated on-panel. Can summarize our reasons again but will leave it unless asked.

Don't mind me I just finally understand what you meant by only special CQC having a 3x

Wait then wouldn't both metas for Kishin Seiken fall apart since atp it wouldn't matter if Gun or Daniel have CQC since normal CQC doesn't have a 3x mult and we have no proof Gun had his own unique version of CQC similar to Jincheol's war mode and MK's knife CQC?

Since knowing all martial arts ≠ inventing your own unique CQC techique

 

[WindyAttack]

Don't mind me I just finally understand what you meant by only special CQC having a 3x

Wait then wouldn't both metas for Kishin Seiken fall apart since atp it wouldn't matter if Gun or Daniel have CQC since normal CQC doesn't have a 3x mult and we have no proof Gun had his own unique version of CQC similar to Jincheol's war mode and MK's knife CQC?

Since knowing all martial arts ≠ inventing your own unique CQC techique

Warrens CQC is a custom CQC Sherlock

There's no hope for ur bad faith arguments to take place here

 

[CatLover313]

Warrens CQC is a custom CQC Sherlock

There's no hope for ur bad faith arguments to take place here

Let’s calm down, you could've just said that politely

 

[WindyAttack]

Let’s calm down, you could've just said that politely

Yin for Yang and Yang for Yin

 

[Powerscalingcat]

Warrens CQC is a custom CQC Sherlock

There's no hope for ur bad faith arguments to take place here

Wasn't the whole point of his special CQC that it couldn't be copied?

Like Warren explicitly made it so that it couldn't be copied and even UI Daniel only copied his normal CQC not the special one which is red

 

[WindyAttack]

Wasn't the whole point of his special CQC that it couldn't be copied?

Like Warren explicitly made it so that it couldn't be copied and even UI Daniel only copied his normal CQC not the special one which is red

Remind me what Johan exactly did to Warrens CQC

And What Daniel can do to his CQC too

And no that's wrong it's stated that UI Daniel improved Upon Warrens CQC and there's no reason to believe he'd use normal CQC under a constant threat

 

[Powerscalingcat]

Remind me what Johan exactly did to Warrens CQC

And What Daniel can do to his CQC too

And no that's wrong it's stated that UI Daniel improved Upon Warrens CQC and there's no reason to believe he'd use normal CQC under a constant threat

Warren literally stated he was too exhausted to use his special CQC so how would UI Daniel copy his special CQC if he literally hasn't seen it? Not to mention Warren's special CQC is red

Also the first part of the argument is fallacious, we KNOW Daniel can't copy signature techiques even in his perfect body due to lacking mastery (with masteries just being techqiues that allow you to leverage your stats to a superhuman extent) yet he can copy normal techqiues

That establishes that there is a level of complexity that even a copy user can't copy without actually understanding, while Warren's Jeet kune do CQC is not mastery infused as least as far as we are aware, it has multiple statements of being uncopyable

Also if UI Daniel copied Warren's special CQC in 1A you would think he would be surpised? Or comment on it? All he commented was that UI Daniel was copying their techqiues but he never commented on his special CQC being copied even though you think he would given how much he hyped it up as uncopyable

Either way the colour of the CQC doesn’t match and as far as I am aware there is even LESS evidence that Daniel has special CQC compared to him having normal CQC

 

[WindyAttack]

Warren literally stated he was too exhausted to use his special CQC so how would UI Daniel copy his special CQC if he literally hasn't seen it? Not to mention Warren's special CQC is red

Also the first part of the argument is fallacious, we KNOW Daniel can't copy signature techiques even in his perfect body due to lacking mastery (with masteries just being techqiues that allow you to leverage your stats to a superhuman extent) yet he can copy normal techqiues

That establishes that there is a level of complexity that even a copy user can't copy without actually understanding, while Warren's Jeet kune do CQC is not mastery infused as least as far as we are aware, it has multiple statements of being uncopyable

Also if UI Daniel copied Warren's special CQC in 1A you would think he would be surpised? Or comment on it? All he commented was that UI Daniel was copying their techqiues but he never commented on his special CQC being copied even though you think he would given how much he hyped it up as uncopyable

Either way the colour of the CQC doesn’t match and as far as I am aware there is even LESS evidence that Daniel has special CQC compared to him having normal CQC

I don't really think you understand what Custom CQC means. When someone actively improves upon CQC, a custom version of CQC is born, which is exactly what UI Daniel was stated to be doing. It is explicitly stated that he was improving upon their skills, and it is stated again and again that when UI Daniel copies something, he copies its very foundation. Once he improves upon it, it becomes Custom CQC.

Another thing is that, in that thread, no distinction was made between normal CQC and Custom CQC. Every form of CQC there was approved to have a 3× multiplier, and the proposal for normal CQC was also 3×. The example used for granting the 3× multiplier included Warren vs. Minsik's fight.

Color itself is also irrelevant. We have seen Johan himself fully copy Manager Kim's Custom CQC and then teach himself to use it, thus obtaining his own Custom CQC, even though it remained red, just like UI Daniel's. This directly contradicts your headcanon that CQC is a Unique Skill. Is there any evidence that this is specifically the case—that it combines mastery? It was introduced hundreds of chapters before Unique Skills even came into existence.

Daniel is stated to have copy ability on par with Johan, and even Haru herself obtained Johan's Custom CQC after seeing it and learning it instantly with her copy ability. Even her own description states that she can copy any skill after seeing it only once.

At this point, it's extremely obvious how much your dishonest arguments hurt your position that you've openly resorted to lying and spreading misinformation. It's extremely disheartening.

Also, didn't you have a heat wave there? That's why you couldn't reply and tried to quit arguing twice before coming back?

 

[Powerscalingcat]

I don't really think you understand what Custom CQC means. When someone actively improves upon CQC, a custom version of CQC is born, which is exactly what UI Daniel was stated to be doing. It is explicitly stated that he was improving upon their skills, and it is stated again and again that when UI Daniel copies something, he copies its very foundation. Once he improves upon it, it becomes Custom CQC.

When was UI Daniel STATED to be improving upon their techiques? Warren stated he was copying and making the techqiues his own NOT that he was improving upon them

Also weren't YOU the one that was arguing that UI Daniel's perfect body only affects how effective his techiques are due to his physique being perfect rather than the techqiue itself being different? How would he IMPROVE upon CQC if he is just hitting harder? A heavy weight's jab hitting harder than a lightweigh's jab doesn't mean they have 'improved' upon the jab as a techique, let alone in the way a special CQC is defined.

Also Also no that is NOT how a custom CQC is made, to create a custom CQC you need to change the stance or add your own unique twist to it (knives, guns, steel wires, jeet kune do, war mode, katanas etc) which Daniel didn't do as he just copied Warren's CQC and made it his own which means instead of it being an inferior copy his is on par with the real thing

Also Also Also even if we accept your premise, improving upon CQC would NOT automatically make it a special CQC, we have seen since 2A that Warren consistently IMPROVED the range and effectiveness of his CQC but that was NOT considered a special CQC UNTIL he added Jeet Kune do to it, his jeet kune do CQC has both a unique color(red) and a unique stance compared to regular CQC

Also also also also

My Gallery — Postimages

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Warren literally states that he is too exhausted to his NEW CQC (the special one) against UI Daniel.

So you're just plain wrong lol

Another thing is that, in that thread, no distinction was made between normal CQC and Custom CQC. Every form of CQC there was approved to have a 3× multiplier, and the proposal for normal CQC was also 3×. The example used for granting the 3× multiplier included Warren vs. Minsik's fight.

What the CRT agreed upon was for special CQC to have a 3x mult because its the only one that had concrete multiplier implications (the whole 100x fold increase) normal CQC's only statement was that it greatly increases power which was really vague

Granted the CRT could have been a lot clearer on that

You can ask @CatLover313 about it since he is the one that first brought this up to my attention

Color itself is also irrelevant. We have seen Johan himself fully copy Manager Kim's Custom CQC and then teach himself to use it, thus obtaining his own Custom CQC, even though it remained red, just like UI Daniel's. This directly contradicts your headcanon that CQC is a Unique Skill. Is there any evidence that this is specifically the case—that it combines mastery? It was introduced hundreds of chapters before Unique Skills even came into existence.

Normal CQC is orange, Warren's special CQC is red

Also I never said that CQC is a Unique Skill or that it combines mastery what?

I pointed out that perfect Daniel being unable to copy signature moves despite being perfectly able to copy normal moves is proof that Daniel being able to copy normal CQC does NOT mean he would be able to copy special CQC

>Daniel is stated to have copy ability on par with Johan, and even Haru herself obtained Johan's Custom CQC after seeing it and learning it instantly with her copy ability. Even her own description states that she can copy any skill after seeing it only once.

None of them have special CQC that's a headcannon bruh

At this point, it's extremely obvious how much your dishonest arguments hurt your position that you've openly resorted to lying and spreading misinformation. It's extremely disheartening.

More baseless accusations despite having been warned by a mod already this is like what the 3rd or 4th time?

Also, didn't you have a heat wave there? That's why you couldn't reply and tried to quit arguing twice before coming back?

That was 5 days ago, thankfully the weather got better(hopefully it stays that way) so I am doing better and I can get back to debating for now, so thank you for the backhanded 'concern' about my health, much appreciated /s

Also is this reply meant to mockingly accuse me of lying about my own physical health? I don't mind you accusing me of bad faith debating since its an internet debate over a fictional series so its not the end of the world

But mocking me for feeling physically unwell by implying that I was lying about my health condtion to dodge a debate is incredibly self-centered and toxic

The world does NOT revolve around YOU. I have a life and problems outside of power scaling debates, do you unrionically think I have literally nothing better to do than debating you therefore if I am NOT debating you then than must mean I am lying? If I can't reply immediately or on the same day due to being busy I have made sure to always notify you guys ahead of time and I've tried my best to be as respectful as possible including trying to apologize to you in a show of good faith

YOU on the other hand from the very start have been nothing but aggresive and accustory and even after a mod warned you, you still continue to double and even triple down on baselessly accusing me of:
-bad faith debating
-stubbornness
-Inability to understand logic
-lying
-spreading misinformation
-lying about MY OWN HEALTH
-dishonesty

Just because you aren't blatantly breaking the rules doesn't mean you get to act like a POS. Learn some deceny and respect for the people around you.

I already outlined that me disagreeing with you and having a different interpretation is NOT what bad faith even means, if anything incessantly making baseless bad faith accusations against me is more indicative of YOU arguing in bad faith rather than me, because I am not the one calling you a dishonest liar and accusing you of lying about your own physical well being every time I reply to you

 

[WindyAttack]

When was UI Daniel STATED to be improving upon their techiques? Warren stated he was copying and making the techqiues his own NOT that he was improving upon them

Also weren't YOU the one that was arguing that UI Daniel's perfect body only affects how effective his techiques are due to his physique being perfect rather than the techqiue itself being different? How would he IMPROVE upon CQC if he is just hitting harder? A heavy weight's jab hitting harder than a lightweigh's jab doesn't mean they have 'improved' upon the jab as a techique, let alone in the way a special CQC is defined.

Also Also no that is NOT how a custom CQC is made, to create a custom CQC you need to change the stance or add your own unique twist to it (knives, guns, steel wires, jeet kune do, war mode, katanas etc) which Daniel didn't do as he just copied Warren's CQC and made it his own which means instead of it being an inferior copy his is on par with the real thing

Also Also Also even if we accept your premise, improving upon CQC would NOT automatically make it a special CQC, we have seen since 2A that Warren consistently IMPROVED the range and effectiveness of his CQC but that was NOT considered a special CQC UNTIL he added Jeet Kune do to it, his jeet kune do CQC has both a unique color(red) and a unique stance compared to regular CQC

Also also also also

My Gallery — Postimages

postimg.cc

Warren literally states that he is too exhausted to his NEW CQC (the special one) against UI Daniel.

So you're just plain wrong lol

What the CRT agreed upon was for special CQC to have a 3x mult because its the only one that had concrete multiplier implications (the whole 100x fold increase) normal CQC's only statement was that it greatly increases power which was really vague

Granted the CRT could have been a lot clearer on that

You can ask @CatLover313 about it since he is the one that first brought this up to my attention

Normal CQC is orange, Warren's special CQC is red

Also I never said that CQC is a Unique Skill or that it combines mastery what?

I pointed out that perfect Daniel being unable to copy signature moves despite being perfectly able to copy normal moves is proof that Daniel being able to copy normal CQC does NOT mean he would be able to copy special CQC

>Daniel is stated to have copy ability on par with Johan, and even Haru herself obtained Johan's Custom CQC after seeing it and learning it instantly with her copy ability. Even her own description states that she can copy any skill after seeing it only once.

None of them have special CQC that's a headcannon bruh


More baseless accusations despite having been warned by a mod already this is like what the 3rd or 4th time?

That was 5 days ago, thankfully the weather got better(hopefully it stays that way) so I am doing better and I can get back to debating for now, so thank you for the backhanded 'concern' about my health, much appreciated /s

Also is this reply meant to mockingly accuse me of lying about my own physical health? I don't mind you accusing me of bad faith debating since its an internet debate over a fictional series so its not the end of the world

But mocking me for feeling physically unwell by implying that I was lying about my health condtion to dodge a debate is incredibly self-centered and toxic

The world does NOT revolve around YOU. I have a life and problems outside of power scaling debates, do you unrionically think I have literally nothing better to do than debating you therefore if I am NOT debating you then than must mean I am lying? If I can't reply immediately or on the same day due to being busy I have made sure to always notify you guys ahead of time and I've tried my best to be as respectful as possible including trying to apologize to you in a show of good faith

YOU on the other hand from the very start have been nothing but aggresive and accustory and even after a mod warned you, you still continue to double and even triple down on baselessly accusing me of:
-bad faith debating
-stubbornness
-Inability to understand logic
-lying
-spreading misinformation
-lying about MY OWN HEALTH
-dishonesty

Just because you aren't blatantly breaking the rules doesn't mean you get to act like a POS. Learn some deceny and respect for the people around you.

I already outlined that me disagreeing with you and having a different interpretation is NOT what bad faith even means, if anything incessantly making baseless bad faith accusations against me is more indicative of YOU arguing in bad faith rather than me, because I am not the one calling you a dishonest liar and accusing you of lying about your own physical well being every time I reply to you

Yeah, first of all, you are lying about Warren not using his Custom CQC or New CQC against UI Daniel and manipulating the context yet again.

At first, Warren says he's wondering whether he'd be able to use the CQC he used against Jerry against UI Daniel. What CQC did he use against Jerry? Custom CQC. That was not a definitive statement at all. He was simply wondering whether he'd be able to use it again. Right after that, he indeed used it, further proving that he was using his Custom CQC. This should be consistent since UI Daniel was shown doing a stance similar to Jeet Kune Do when punching Warren right after he tried to use CQC against him.

Right after this, Warren, Vasco, and Jerry jump UI Daniel using Muay Thai, CQC, and Boxing because Warren thought UI Daniel might not be able to copy all of their skills at once. However, the very next moment, we see CQC being activated, and it's stated that UI Daniel was copying all of their skills and making them his own, meaning he was mixing CQC with Boxing and Muay Thai. This is literally exactly how a Custom CQC is made.

Now after this, Warren says he's too tired to use New CQC. This can be understood as him saying that after getting beaten up by UI Daniel and already using his Custom CQC earlier, he couldn't use his New CQC again, not that he wasn't able to use it from the beginning.

Image Chest

Post with 1 views.

imgchest.com

 

[WindyAttack]

When was UI Daniel STATED to be improving upon their techiques? Warren stated he was copying and making the techqiues his own NOT that he was improving upon them

Also weren't YOU the one that was arguing that UI Daniel's perfect body only affects how effective his techiques are due to his physique being perfect rather than the techqiue itself being different? How would he IMPROVE upon CQC if he is just hitting harder? A heavy weight's jab hitting harder than a lightweigh's jab doesn't mean they have 'improved' upon the jab as a techique, let alone in the way a special CQC is defined.

Also Also no that is NOT how a custom CQC is made, to create a custom CQC you need to change the stance or add your own unique twist to it (knives, guns, steel wires, jeet kune do, war mode, katanas etc) which Daniel didn't do as he just copied Warren's CQC and made it his own which means instead of it being an inferior copy his is on par with the real thing

Also Also Also even if we accept your premise, improving upon CQC would NOT automatically make it a special CQC, we have seen since 2A that Warren consistently IMPROVED the range and effectiveness of his CQC but that was NOT considered a special CQC UNTIL he added Jeet Kune do to it, his jeet kune do CQC has both a unique color(red) and a unique stance compared to regular CQC

Also also also also

My Gallery — Postimages

postimg.cc

Warren literally states that he is too exhausted to his NEW CQC (the special one) against UI Daniel.

So you're just plain wrong lol

What the CRT agreed upon was for special CQC to have a 3x mult because its the only one that had concrete multiplier implications (the whole 100x fold increase) normal CQC's only statement was that it greatly increases power which was really vague

Granted the CRT could have been a lot clearer on that

You can ask @CatLover313 about it since he is the one that first brought this up to my attention

Normal CQC is orange, Warren's special CQC is red

Also I never said that CQC is a Unique Skill or that it combines mastery what?

I pointed out that perfect Daniel being unable to copy signature moves despite being perfectly able to copy normal moves is proof that Daniel being able to copy normal CQC does NOT mean he would be able to copy special CQC

>Daniel is stated to have copy ability on par with Johan, and even Haru herself obtained Johan's Custom CQC after seeing it and learning it instantly with her copy ability. Even her own description states that she can copy any skill after seeing it only once.

None of them have special CQC that's a headcannon bruh


More baseless accusations despite having been warned by a mod already this is like what the 3rd or 4th time?

That was 5 days ago, thankfully the weather got better(hopefully it stays that way) so I am doing better and I can get back to debating for now, so thank you for the backhanded 'concern' about my health, much appreciated /s

Also is this reply meant to mockingly accuse me of lying about my own physical health? I don't mind you accusing me of bad faith debating since its an internet debate over a fictional series so its not the end of the world

But mocking me for feeling physically unwell by implying that I was lying about my health condtion to dodge a debate is incredibly self-centered and toxic

The world does NOT revolve around YOU. I have a life and problems outside of power scaling debates, do you unrionically think I have literally nothing better to do than debating you therefore if I am NOT debating you then than must mean I am lying? If I can't reply immediately or on the same day due to being busy I have made sure to always notify you guys ahead of time and I've tried my best to be as respectful as possible including trying to apologize to you in a show of good faith

YOU on the other hand from the very start have been nothing but aggresive and accustory and even after a mod warned you, you still continue to double and even triple down on baselessly accusing me of:
-bad faith debating
-stubbornness
-Inability to understand logic
-lying
-spreading misinformation
-lying about MY OWN HEALTH
-dishonesty

Just because you aren't blatantly breaking the rules doesn't mean you get to act like a POS. Learn some deceny and respect for the people around you.

I already outlined that me disagreeing with you and having a different interpretation is NOT what bad faith even means, if anything incessantly making baseless bad faith accusations against me is more indicative of YOU arguing in bad faith rather than me, because I am not the one calling you a dishonest liar and accusing you of lying about your own physical well being every time I reply to you

The proposed multiplier for Custom CQC was 10x to 100x, while normal CQC was proposed to be 3x.

After the staff said it could be hyperbole, someone asked a staff member, "Warren defeated Minsik, so shouldn't 10x be feasible?" The staff member replied that 3x is enough to utterly dominate someone completely.

And again, if you disagree with the outcome, kindly open a CRT to remove it. It doesn't matter what you think. That was indeed what was accepted. You're just blatantly wrong here,

@Aksh_sky would be more knowledge about this matter

 

[WindyAttack]

When was UI Daniel STATED to be improving upon their techiques? Warren stated he was copying and making the techqiues his own NOT that he was improving upon them

Also weren't YOU the one that was arguing that UI Daniel's perfect body only affects how effective his techiques are due to his physique being perfect rather than the techqiue itself being different? How would he IMPROVE upon CQC if he is just hitting harder? A heavy weight's jab hitting harder than a lightweigh's jab doesn't mean they have 'improved' upon the jab as a techique, let alone in the way a special CQC is defined.

Also Also no that is NOT how a custom CQC is made, to create a custom CQC you need to change the stance or add your own unique twist to it (knives, guns, steel wires, jeet kune do, war mode, katanas etc) which Daniel didn't do as he just copied Warren's CQC and made it his own which means instead of it being an inferior copy his is on par with the real thing

Also Also Also even if we accept your premise, improving upon CQC would NOT automatically make it a special CQC, we have seen since 2A that Warren consistently IMPROVED the range and effectiveness of his CQC but that was NOT considered a special CQC UNTIL he added Jeet Kune do to it, his jeet kune do CQC has both a unique color(red) and a unique stance compared to regular CQC

Also also also also

My Gallery — Postimages

postimg.cc

Warren literally states that he is too exhausted to his NEW CQC (the special one) against UI Daniel.

So you're just plain wrong lol

What the CRT agreed upon was for special CQC to have a 3x mult because its the only one that had concrete multiplier implications (the whole 100x fold increase) normal CQC's only statement was that it greatly increases power which was really vague

Granted the CRT could have been a lot clearer on that

You can ask @CatLover313 about it since he is the one that first brought this up to my attention

Normal CQC is orange, Warren's special CQC is red

Also I never said that CQC is a Unique Skill or that it combines mastery what?

I pointed out that perfect Daniel being unable to copy signature moves despite being perfectly able to copy normal moves is proof that Daniel being able to copy normal CQC does NOT mean he would be able to copy special CQC

>Daniel is stated to have copy ability on par with Johan, and even Haru herself obtained Johan's Custom CQC after seeing it and learning it instantly with her copy ability. Even her own description states that she can copy any skill after seeing it only once.

None of them have special CQC that's a headcannon bruh


More baseless accusations despite having been warned by a mod already this is like what the 3rd or 4th time?

That was 5 days ago, thankfully the weather got better(hopefully it stays that way) so I am doing better and I can get back to debating for now, so thank you for the backhanded 'concern' about my health, much appreciated /s

Also is this reply meant to mockingly accuse me of lying about my own physical health? I don't mind you accusing me of bad faith debating since its an internet debate over a fictional series so its not the end of the world

But mocking me for feeling physically unwell by implying that I was lying about my health condtion to dodge a debate is incredibly self-centered and toxic

The world does NOT revolve around YOU. I have a life and problems outside of power scaling debates, do you unrionically think I have literally nothing better to do than debating you therefore if I am NOT debating you then than must mean I am lying? If I can't reply immediately or on the same day due to being busy I have made sure to always notify you guys ahead of time and I've tried my best to be as respectful as possible including trying to apologize to you in a show of good faith

YOU on the other hand from the very start have been nothing but aggresive and accustory and even after a mod warned you, you still continue to double and even triple down on baselessly accusing me of:
-bad faith debating
-stubbornness
-Inability to understand logic
-lying
-spreading misinformation
-lying about MY OWN HEALTH
-dishonesty

Just because you aren't blatantly breaking the rules doesn't mean you get to act like a POS. Learn some deceny and respect for the people around you.

I already outlined that me disagreeing with you and having a different interpretation is NOT what bad faith even means, if anything incessantly making baseless bad faith accusations against me is more indicative of YOU arguing in bad faith rather than me, because I am not the one calling you a dishonest liar and accusing you of lying about your own physical well being every time I reply to you

Manager Kim has Custom CQC, and it's stated that no genius can copy it. Yet Johan was able to copy his Custom CQC by correcting his own stances and becoming both his own teacher and student. Haru also copied it.

Nothing here is headcanon. You're just blatantly refusing to understand the context.

 

[WindyAttack]

When was UI Daniel STATED to be improving upon their techiques? Warren stated he was copying and making the techqiues his own NOT that he was improving upon them

Also weren't YOU the one that was arguing that UI Daniel's perfect body only affects how effective his techiques are due to his physique being perfect rather than the techqiue itself being different? How would he IMPROVE upon CQC if he is just hitting harder? A heavy weight's jab hitting harder than a lightweigh's jab doesn't mean they have 'improved' upon the jab as a techique, let alone in the way a special CQC is defined.

Also Also no that is NOT how a custom CQC is made, to create a custom CQC you need to change the stance or add your own unique twist to it (knives, guns, steel wires, jeet kune do, war mode, katanas etc) which Daniel didn't do as he just copied Warren's CQC and made it his own which means instead of it being an inferior copy his is on par with the real thing

Also Also Also even if we accept your premise, improving upon CQC would NOT automatically make it a special CQC, we have seen since 2A that Warren consistently IMPROVED the range and effectiveness of his CQC but that was NOT considered a special CQC UNTIL he added Jeet Kune do to it, his jeet kune do CQC has both a unique color(red) and a unique stance compared to regular CQC

Also also also also

My Gallery — Postimages

postimg.cc

Warren literally states that he is too exhausted to his NEW CQC (the special one) against UI Daniel.

So you're just plain wrong lol

What the CRT agreed upon was for special CQC to have a 3x mult because its the only one that had concrete multiplier implications (the whole 100x fold increase) normal CQC's only statement was that it greatly increases power which was really vague

Granted the CRT could have been a lot clearer on that

You can ask @CatLover313 about it since he is the one that first brought this up to my attention

Normal CQC is orange, Warren's special CQC is red

Also I never said that CQC is a Unique Skill or that it combines mastery what?

I pointed out that perfect Daniel being unable to copy signature moves despite being perfectly able to copy normal moves is proof that Daniel being able to copy normal CQC does NOT mean he would be able to copy special CQC

>Daniel is stated to have copy ability on par with Johan, and even Haru herself obtained Johan's Custom CQC after seeing it and learning it instantly with her copy ability. Even her own description states that she can copy any skill after seeing it only once.

None of them have special CQC that's a headcannon bruh


More baseless accusations despite having been warned by a mod already this is like what the 3rd or 4th time?

That was 5 days ago, thankfully the weather got better(hopefully it stays that way) so I am doing better and I can get back to debating for now, so thank you for the backhanded 'concern' about my health, much appreciated /s

Also is this reply meant to mockingly accuse me of lying about my own physical health? I don't mind you accusing me of bad faith debating since its an internet debate over a fictional series so its not the end of the world

But mocking me for feeling physically unwell by implying that I was lying about my health condtion to dodge a debate is incredibly self-centered and toxic

The world does NOT revolve around YOU. I have a life and problems outside of power scaling debates, do you unrionically think I have literally nothing better to do than debating you therefore if I am NOT debating you then than must mean I am lying? If I can't reply immediately or on the same day due to being busy I have made sure to always notify you guys ahead of time and I've tried my best to be as respectful as possible including trying to apologize to you in a show of good faith

YOU on the other hand from the very start have been nothing but aggresive and accustory and even after a mod warned you, you still continue to double and even triple down on baselessly accusing me of:
-bad faith debating
-stubbornness
-Inability to understand logic
-lying
-spreading misinformation
-lying about MY OWN HEALTH
-dishonesty

Just because you aren't blatantly breaking the rules doesn't mean you get to act like a POS. Learn some deceny and respect for the people around you.

I already outlined that me disagreeing with you and having a different interpretation is NOT what bad faith even means, if anything incessantly making baseless bad faith accusations against me is more indicative of YOU arguing in bad faith rather than me, because I am not the one calling you a dishonest liar and accusing you of lying about your own physical well being every time I reply to you

I'm not sure why you're separating those five accusations when half of them mean the same thing.

Second of all, they're not even accusations. You were blatantly caught multiple times lying about the context and openly being stubborn when called out. An accusation is supposed to be something without proof.

And yes, for the fourth time, you're strawmanning me. I'm not saying you're those things because you disagree with me. I'm saying you're doing those things. Those are two completely different claims. For example, Aksh, in the latest CRT, thinks HFBD Johan has immeasurable stats. I completely disagree with that, yet I still think he's arguing in good faith, unlike you.

The staff warned both of us. You were warned because you opened the report over a petty reason, and the staff also said this didn't even warrant a warning. At best, they could warn me, and that was after you manipulated the context.

For example, even in this conversation, you presupposed my intention, when quite frankly, I was just curious how the heat waves could be over so fast or how you were enduring the heat while typing. Quite frankly, I don't care that much about you, unlike you, who went out of your way to waste an hour or two writing reports about me that led to nothing.

And there's a difference between being extremely toxic and simply not being as humanly polite as possible. Even previously, the staff called you out on this, and I believe I deserve an apology for it right now.

 

[Powerscalingcat]

I'm not sure why you're separating those five accusations when half of them mean the same thing.

Second of all, they're not even accusations. You were blatantly caught multiple times lying about the context and openly being stubborn when called out. An accusation is supposed to be something without proof.

Yeah there is no proof, because I am not LYING I am DISAGREEING with you because I have a different OPINION FROM YOU because the way people intepret statements and stories they read is SUBJECTIVE leading to different opinions and interpretations, that doesn't mean there isn't an objective intended interpretation obviously but people will naturally disagree on what that is.

I can be wrong, I can be EXTREMELY stupidly wrong but that is NOT the same thing as lying or being bad faith

Being wrong, or debating badly or even using fallacies doesn't mean that someone is inherently debating in bad faith

Debating in bad faith would mean I am doing so DELIBERATELY as in I KNOW that I am lying I KNOW that what I am saying is not true or fallacious or yet I say it anyway because I have some hidden agenda I want to achieve inspite of it being objectively incorrect

I have made it clear MULTIPLE TIMES that when I debate something its because I genuinely believe it. I am obviously still a human being, I am flawed, I can misunderstand stuff, I can forget, I can misread, there are MANY mistakes that I can possibly make including untitentionally committing a fallacy but NONE of that is actually indicative of my moral character.

Bad faith disenganeous debate would be something like for example me lying that in chapter xxx Daniel stated that he doesn't know CQC in order to try to prove my point.

I've went out of my way to ALWAYS provide the images and episodes from which I am getting my statements

It's like the concept of an opposing opinion is genuinely a foreign concept to you

I told you before a few messages ago, if I don't debate I am being bad faith and stubborn for not debating, if I debate I am ALSO being bad faith and stubborn

This is a catch 22 it doesn't matter what I do or say you're gonna villanise me anyway!

Idk if this is like your first CRT or something but you DON'T need to convince EVERYONE to agree with you, and not everyone HAS to agree with you for your CRT to pass, usually if we keep arguing but neither of us yield, usually you just tally the person up as having disagreed (which I asked you multiple times to do that) and you wait for the admins to evaluate the thread I already told you like 4 seperate times that my opinion literally does not matter, if 2 admins agree to your CRT it doesn't matter what I think its gonna get accepted anyway so I don't get this weird obession with getting me in particular to submit and agree with you when cat and Pyro don't agree either but I don't see you belittling them and accusing them of lying about their own well being

And yes, for the fourth time, you're strawmanning me. I'm not saying you're those things because you disagree with me. I'm saying you're doing those things. Those are two completely different claims. For example, Aksh, in the latest CRT, thinks HFBD Johan has immeasurable stats. I completely disagree with that, yet I still think he's arguing in good faith, unlike you.

The staff warned both of us. You were warned because you opened the report over a petty reason, and the staff also said this didn't even warrant a warning. At best, they could warn me, and that was after you manipulated the context.

Anddd now you're also accusing me of manipulating context

In the report thread Bambu said if he HAD to chose he would go with me

Bambu said that are our bickering was so petty that it doesn't even warrant a proper warning, go reread what Bambu said he was talking about our conversation not my report he called BOTH of us petty YOU included

Also how did I manipulate the context?
I literally just posted screenshots of what you said, how was I supposed to know that you and Ankh were friends? I only learned about it when you told Bambu after the report

I also literally linked the CRT thread in my report and told the moderators to read through our full conversation PRECISELY to make sure I am not manipulating any context and so they have a clear understanding of what happened

For example, even in this conversation, you presupposed my intention, when quite frankly, I was just curious how the heat waves could be over so fast or how you were enduring the heat while typing. Quite frankly, I don't care that much about you, unlike you, who went out of your way to waste an hour or two writing reports about me that led to nothing.

You've been pressuming my intentions since this CRT and literally nothing I say or do could convince you I am arguing in good faith even if I disagree with you but how dare I assume that a backhanded sarcastic question was NOT asked in good faith, if you were genuinely curious or cared you could have asked me like a normal person instead of treating it like a joke.

Yeah you care SO little you have consistently keep arguing with me even after I multiple times told you it would be more beneficial for your CRT if we just agree to disagree so the mods can accept it and we can both move on with our lives and yet you keep belittling me and accusing me of bad faith debating even after both Bambu AND your own friend told you to tone down the bad faith accusations

If I was arguing in bad faith like you're accusing me of you would think that either Bambu or your own friend or literally anyone else in this CRT who agrees with you would have backed you up and been like 'yeah power scaling cat windy is right you're arguing in bad faith!' would agree with you and back you but no instead they told you to tone it down and yet you keep doubling and tripling down on it, and for what?

Ankh agrees with you and disagrees with me and we have also been having a back and fourth but he NEVER accused me of bad faith debating and he has certainly been magnitudes more polite than you, which btw isn't the Herculian labour you're making it out to be, it's not gonna kill you to treat people with more dignity and respect if your friend and everyone else can do it, I am not asking you to be as humanly polite as possible I am asking you to do the bare minimum that everyone else I have ever talked to on this forum has done.

I've didagreed with pyro, and Aksh and catlover, and other people but we usually either come to an agreement or agree to disagree, how come nobody else has ever accuse me of bad faith arguing up until you?

And there's a difference between being extremely toxic and simply not being as humanly polite as possible. Even previously, the staff called you out on this, and I believe I deserve an apology for it right now.

First of all I already gave you a public apology in the report thread and I tagged you for that in case you didn't see it

And second of all, apologize for what? I already gave you a public apology like I promised as a show of good faith and I thought we could start to communicate better but instead you keep doubling and tripling down on bad faith accusations and mockery

So no you're not getting an apology, an apology is only uttered if it's deserved, consider my public apology retracted.

 

[Aksh_sky]

Just put bro on disagree atp windy.

And drop the bad faith alligations already and neg him rhetorically.

 

[Powerscalingcat]

Just put bro on disagree atp windy.

And drop the bad faith alligations already and neg him rhetorically.

Does anyone know where the message drafts go by any chance?

I wrote a reply to one of his earlier arguments but chrome refreshed and now its gone even though I saved the draft like 30 times

Edit: I.. just discovered there is apparently a button I can press that freezes my reply so that its unaffected by page refreshing.... WHY AM I JUST NOW LEARNING ABOUT THIS I COULD HAVE BEEN DOING THIS THE WHOLE TIME AND SAVED MYSELF SO MUCH TIME I AM SUCH AN IDIOTTTT

 

[WindyAttack]

Just put bro on disagree atp windy.

And drop the bad faith alligations already and neg him rhetorically.

Already negged him pretty badly and he's going circular + I'm not reading allat

Also I'm lowkey tired today due to festivals

So meh forget it let him yap

 

[Powerscalingcat]

Already negged him pretty badly and he's going circular + I'm not reading allat

Also I'm lowkey tired today due to festivals

So meh forget it let him yap

So its fine if I stop replying since you're tired*?

Also did you bump the thread today?