Honkai: Star Rail Discussion Thread

[Mbpoops]

 

[Mbpoops]

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Do Aeon still bound by time itself, since the only Aeon I recall that can do time travel is just Terminus?

 

[Mbpoops]

Do Aeon still bound by time itself, since the only Aeon I recall that can do time travel is just Terminus?

aeons are still bound by time yea

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

Do Aeon still bound by time itself, since the only Aeon I recall that can do time travel is just Terminus?

Not known. So far 2 of them have an irregular relationship with it

 

[SuperNova55555]

Terminus meets Aeons when timetraveling. Do as you will with this information.

 

[Mbpoops]

Terminus meets Aeons when timetraveling. Do as you will with this information.

wdymmmmm they're obviously bound to the physical 3D+1 universe and unbound by time!!! thats why every aeon can timetravel!!! IX > imaginary tree

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Is that Cliburn I see

 

[SuperNova55555]

wdymmmmm they're obviously bound to the physical 3D+1 universe and unbound by time!!! thats why every aeon can timetravel!!! IX > imaginary tree

Time travel fuhhhs a lot of stuff up ngl. At least consistency wise.

In LOTM for example, Klein as Lord of Mysteries is said to be capable of timetravel and stuff, but because Sefirot and stuff are spatiotemporally unique, that would be very wack narrative wise, so the author sidestepped the issue by just saying “yea bro he cant time travel because the Universe/OC doesn’t let him and stuff”

But uhh, in Honkai time stuff is very narratively relevant (its literally Finality) so they just make them spatiotemporal and stuffs.

 

[Mbpoops]

Time travel fuhhhs a lot of stuff up ngl. At least consistency wise.

In LOTM for example, Klein as Lord of Mysteries is said to be capable of timetravel and stuff, but because Sefirot and stuff are spatiotemporally unique, that would be very wack narrative wise, so the author sidestepped the issue by just saying “yea bro he cant time travel because the Universe/OC doesn’t let him and stuff”

But uhh, in Honkai time stuff is very narratively relevant (its literally Finality) so they just make them spatiotemporal and stuffs.

Herta can also time travel apparantly

 

[Mbpoops]

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

who wants to fight i am bored

 

[Mbpoops]

Arlecchino > phainon

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

Arlecchino > phainon

https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/IQ_Tax_Collector how about you ask this guy for your share

 

[Mbpoops]

how about you ask this guy for your share

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

Send me a picture of yourself ill make you in Sims and torture you agonisingly

 

[SuperNova55555]

Send me a picture of yourself ill make you in Sims and torture you agonisingly

Unconventional kinks you have

 

[SuperNova55555]

Oh yea, as I said, I’m fine with CM2 Paths if ya’ll wanna add that

 

[PedjaTarzan]

bro is predicting 4.4

 

[SuperNova55555]

EWWWWWW, HE’S SO UGLY

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

Unconventional kinks you have

Don't be jealous I can make you too and lock you up in adjacent cells

Oh yea, as I said, I’m fine with CM2 Paths if ya’ll wanna add that

Why would we make cm2 paths for a cm1 feat

 

[PedjaTarzan]

EWWWWWW, HE’S SO UGLY

he has a idol dress btw

 

[SuperNova55555]

Why would we make cm2 paths for a cm1 feat

Cuz the concept of Paths is only immanent in what it predicates.

Well, firstly, to clarify, it’s not the concept-itself, but rather the concept as it is instantiated in the Path. So it is not Aftertaste-itself but rather Aftertaste across Voracity/Elation. Which is obvious, since it’s not as if Destruction only existed after Nanook’s ascension, but this is more of a preface.

And the concept itself is inter-related with the medium by which particulars relate back to, that is, Imaginary Energy. Since the Path is after all just a conglomerate of energy. So the destruction of the Path is consequently the destruction of the concept. Which is exactly what happens with Nous and Irontomb.

Irontomb directly affects the Path by affecting the Erudition constants within the cosmos, that is, intellectual beings themselves. Because Erudition is instantiated as the intellect of things and destroying that intellect leads go the destruction of Erudition-itself. Which is by-itself related to Lygus’ statement on how notions manifest themselves as dependent on the perception of the subjects. This of course being a reference to phenomenology in relation to quantum mechanics.

It’s also, ya know, further dependent on the energy itself to exist, as that is what is used to create the Path when an Aeon ascends. But Aeons themselves are also not the concept-itself, as seen when one dies and the Path remains (also the fact they can turn away from it). Nor is it a true universal, because the concept of a Path as said in the preface, isn’t the concept-itself, but only how it relates to entities within the Path. But to be CM1, you’d have to prove the concept of a Path exists independently of the Path itself, which is untenable since it is arises directly of the Imaginary itself; that is how Aeons attain power.

Also, for example, how Finality relates to Time. The former is the concept of the latter, but it is simultaneously bound to it. And we know this, because the “entirety” of Terminus’ power which is divided is also the “entirety” of the Path’s power itself. But uh, Terminus is bound by Time. Sure, it has as much control over it as one can achieve, but it is still pretty explicitly a temporal entity considering the “entirety” of it travels through it.

 

[Mbpoops]

Well the true aeon if destruction is the judgement of shamash so nova iz right

 

[SuperNova55555]

You’d have to prove like if the Path of Erudition is destroyed then the concept relating to the Path itself remains, because it is not Knowledge-itself, but Knowledge as relating to the Path of Erudition. Which good luck with that I guess.

 

[Quantumnessmechanics]

Why would we make cm2 paths for a cm1 feat

 

[Mbpoops]

Acheron cleared my starwards. She can keep comparable to zephyro via random painting

 

[Voidnether]

Archer lowk carried my MOC, E2 THerta can't even do ts
Why is THerta actually so benched wtf

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

Cuz the concept of Paths is only immanent in what it predicates.

Well, firstly, to clarify, it’s not the concept-itself, but rather the concept as it is instantiated in the Path. So it is not Aftertaste-itself but rather Aftertaste across Voracity/Elation. Which is obvious, since it’s not as if Destruction only existed after Nanook’s ascension, but this is more of a preface.

And the concept itself is inter-related with the medium by which particulars relate back to, that is, Imaginary Energy. Since the Path is after all just a conglomerate of energy. So the destruction of the Path is consequently the destruction of the concept. Which is exactly what happens with Nous and Irontomb.

Irontomb directly affects the Path by affecting the Erudition constants within the cosmos, that is, intellectual beings themselves. Because Erudition is instantiated as the intellect of things and destroying that intellect leads go the destruction of Erudition-itself. Which is by-itself related to Lygus’ statement on how notions manifest themselves as dependent on the perception of the subjects. This of course being a reference to phenomenology in relation to quantum mechanics.

It’s also, ya know, further dependent on the energy itself to exist, as that is what is used to create the Path when an Aeon ascends. But Aeons themselves are also not the concept-itself, as seen when one dies and the Path remains (also the fact they can turn away from it). Nor is it a true universal, because the concept of a Path as said in the preface, isn’t the concept-itself, but only how it relates to entities within the Path. But to be CM1, you’d have to prove the concept of a Path exists independently of the Path itself, which is untenable since it is arises directly of the Imaginary itself; that is how Aeons attain power.

Also, for example, how Finality relates to Time. The former is the concept of the latter, but it is simultaneously bound to it. And we know this, because the “entirety” of Terminus’ power which is divided is also the “entirety” of the Path’s power itself. But uh, Terminus is bound by Time. Sure, it has as much control over it as one can achieve, but it is still pretty explicitly a temporal entity considering the “entirety” of it travels through it.

The Paths could come at a later time but still usurp the concept from the Imaginary. Yes, Aftertaste as a concept existed before those two. But after they were established, Aftertaste as a concept came under the first and then the latter's authority.

Himeko: The birth of an Aeon gives rise to a Path. The nature of the Paths remains a mystery, leaving us to draw an analogy in a way that mortals can understand: It's a philosophical concept of sorts.
Himeko: A person is considered to be on a Path when their will overlaps with that Path. If the person has a strong enough will, they can draw power from that Path. Those who can do so are called Pathstriders.
Himeko: Pathstriders possess extraordinary power, but are still insignificant compared to the Aeons, like a drop of water in a vast ocean. Sometimes, Aeons will bestow a mortal with their power, making them an "Emanator" of that Aeon.
Himeko: I should mention that once a Path is open, it cannot be closed, even with the fall of its Aeon. That is how we are still able to travel across the stars, despite Akivili's passing

Himeko: Aeons are the most mysterious beings in the galaxy. All we know is that THEY ascended from the form of intelligent beings. As for the how and why, even the heavyweights over at the Genius Society haven't the slightest clue.
Himeko: Upon ascending to Aeon-hood, that being gains power over the Paths, free to choose the allocation of imaginary energy however THEY wish, while suffering the restrictions of the "Primum Mobile."

To me the proper reading is different.

Imaginary Energy exists as a source of all things, including concepts. After an Aeon ascends, they create a Path and through Imaginary Energy existing all over creation, they form a more specific form of a concept and both the Path and the Aeon are forever bound by it.

As for Nous... Well...

After Nous was created which was a computer meant to calculate outcomes, after ascending and creating the Path of Erudition, the computer established a rule and bound the entire universe down that Path because for Nous their entire basis of existence was to ask and extrapolate.

How does Nous select Emanators? How do they select who enters the Society?

Many people misinterpret the signal, thinking the invitation to the Genius Society merely represents the favor and approval of the Aeon. Then, they proudly continue to devote themselves to their studies, unaware that the solution to the problems that they have spent their whole lives searching for had already been solved by Nous thousands of years ago. There are also those who rejoice, thinking they have already reached greatness and had created priceless asset of civilization with their diligence and wisdom. They were sure that their life's achievements deserve Nous's approval. These geniuses were eager for a response from Nous, but the Erudition has no time to appreciate the insignificant achievements of mere mortals. THEIR silence was deafening.

Nous stays in a corner of the cosmos, working out the equations of the universe made up of trillions of variables and deriving the unknown laws of imaginary numbers. Once in a while, a spark of intelligence flashes in a mortal world. The Aeon of Erudition sends a signal to its source, inviting geniuses to join in the search for answers to the universe.

Additionally,

This is the proof of invitation to the halls of the Nous Temple.
Finding the door of which this key opens is a far more arduous task than obtaining the key itself. Those who pass through the doors will immediately realize the impossibility of returning to this side.

"The Erudition does not have answers to the universe, but it will teach you how to ask the right questions."

So what is it that attracts Nous to people? The wisdom to ask the right questions. Because it itself as a computer was tasked purely for this.

Now, about the Instants...

Simulated Universe: "That signal — you ever thought about viewing its existence from a higher dimension?" She discusses the signal that troubles her with a multidimensional research scholar, transferring the data into their model.

Simulated Universe: And so, you all finally ascertain the signal's true nature — a rippling wave that permeated into the Imaginary background. It's born from an unknown point and disappears beyond an unfathomable range. As long as it is within the ripple's range, the mysterious error will be captured in the experimental data.

*Simulated Universe: But it is different from ordinary "ripples." No matter which position it is in, the wave pattern data is completely identical, does not decay, and unaffected by space-time distortion, just like... A solitary wave.

Simulated Universe: "That's right, a solitary wave undisrupted by anything. If we can find out its source and use it as a point of origin, we can build a model that describes the universe's movement trajectory." This model will answer the fourth Cosmic Conundrum at the Futurological Congress — Is the future of the universe prefetermined [sic], or is it chaotic?

Simulated Universe: "The origin of these waves is a "Moment" extrapolated by Nous! That's the standing wave generated from an Aeon's thought!"

I don't know how I can describe the kind of shock I had when I confirmed this discovery: Every step we took were within the simulated Nous' calculations as if THEY were the architect of the Simulated Universe, and we are data instead. I'm beginning to understand the entangled conflict between Mythus and Droidhead. If all the unknowns are to be exposed, where does that leave Enigmata? In hindsight, Stephen Lloyd always wished he was not selected by Nous to join the Genius Society, but this may have been another calculated move by the Aeon — Stephen had no choice.

So what we can discern from this, which most of us already know, is that the Instances are hard-locked sequences that are inevitable. The Solitary Waves are Nous' "brainwaves" that travel across the universe after locking the future to an Instant. In fact, these waves first appear in the Imaginary and then travel across Reality. How? Through the Path of Erudition that has become a Universal. It does not govern all concepts and synonyms of the word "Erudition", but it does govern everything the original computer functioned as such as, the future, thoughts, logic and so on.

Rubert II believed there was no such thing as free will, never realizing he, too, was just another puppet. Rewriting the Anti-Organic Equation, crafting the Scepters, even reigniting the Emperor's War... all of it was just him carrying out Nous's thoughts. From the moment THEY were born, every genius of this world became a prisoner to the Erudition.

In short, Lygus' plan would've never worked because ever since the moment Nous was created, Lygus became its puppet that Nous uses to experiment with.

Anyway enough about that.

Yes. Paths aren't all-encompassing. That is fine. Whatever exists however within their Domain, whether it be as something as incomprehensible and uncountable as balance through Equilibrium or as small and specific as Aftertaste, falls under them and is affected by them. If a Path were to fall, the concept would remain. But that's because it already exists in the Imaginary. What Paths do is control the concepts and their manifestations as long as they are around. They can be analogous to pathways from the Imaginary to Reality except they reshape said concepts under their respective Aeons' will.

The Aeons themselves aren't the ultimate concept. I agree. Instead they are some sort of an obssessive notion. But they affect Paths and shape them. And as long as something is "pulled out" of the Imaginary by them and it becomes a "Path" or is shoved under it, it falls under that domain and sovereignity.

Is this kinda vibescaling? Perhaps. But I don't think it's senseless nor that it doesn't have any basis at all for someone who has grasped the sense of the story and the world.

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Archer lowk carried my MOC, E2 THerta can't even do ts
Why is THerta actually so benched wtf

Meanwhile, Gilgamesh is dead on arival

 

[SuperNova55555]

The Paths could come at a later time but still usurp the concept from the Imaginary. Yes, Aftertaste as a concept existed before those two. But after they were established, Aftertaste as a concept came under the first and then the latter's authority.


To me the proper reading is different.

Imaginary Energy exists as a source of all things, including concepts. After an Aeon ascends, they create a Path and through Imaginary Energy existing all over creation, they form a more specific form of a concept and both the Path and the Aeon are forever bound by it.

As for Nous... Well...

After Nous was created which was a computer meant to calculate outcomes, after ascending and creating the Path of Erudition, the computer established a rule and bound the entire universe down that Path because for Nous their entire basis of existence was to ask and extrapolate.

How does Nous select Emanators? How do they select who enters the Society?


Additionally,


So what is it that attracts Nous to people? The wisdom to ask the right questions. Because it itself as a computer was tasked purely for this.

Now, about the Instants...






So what we can discern from this, which most of us already know, is that the Instances are hard-locked sequences that are inevitable. The Solitary Waves are Nous' "brainwaves" that travel across the universe after locking the future to an Instant. In fact, these waves first appear in the Imaginary and then travel across Reality. How? Through the Path of Erudition that has become a Universal. It does not govern all concepts and synonyms of the word "Erudition", but it does govern everything the original computer functioned as such as, the future, thoughts, logic and so on.

In short, Lygus' plan would've never worked because ever since the moment Nous was created, Lygus became its puppet that Nous uses to experiment with.

Anyway enough about that.

Yes. Paths aren't all-encompassing. That is fine. Whatever exists however within their Domain, whether it be as something as incomprehensible and uncountable as balance through Equilibrium or as small and specific as Aftertaste, falls under them and is affected by them. If a Path were to fall, the concept would remain. But that's because it already exists in the Imaginary. What Paths do is control the concepts and their manifestations as long as they are around. They can be analogous to pathways from the Imaginary to Reality except they reshape said concepts under their respective Aeons' will.

The Aeons themselves aren't the ultimate concept. I agree. Instead they are some sort of an obssessive notion. But they affect Paths and shape them. And as long as something is "pulled out" of the Imaginary by them and it becomes a "Path" or is shoved under it, it falls under that domain and sovereignity.

Is this kinda vibescaling? Perhaps. But I don't think it's senseless nor that it doesn't have any basis at all for someone who has grasped the sense of the story and the world.

I’m not exactly sure what part of this is incompatible with CM2(?)

Frankly speaking, as the source of them, the imaginary holds the causal power of the concepts themselves. Whether or not they exist as real existents is beside the point here. What is relevant is how they are applied in regards to Paths… which is CM2-esque.

Paths are Philosophies, that seems pretty obvious. The effect of the Path of Erudition is Determinism, so it morphs the Universe that way. It is, in a sense, the creation of a philosophy/concept and thus that philosophy is enacted unto the Universe itself. But it is not the concepts-themselves, just how they wish to enact them on the Universe.

Which is, again, consistent with the theme of HSR; that being the interrelation between quantum mechanics and the observer. A Philosophy is how one sees the Universe, and how one’s ideals are enacted. It is not that taste buds themselves were affected by Aha, but simply the taste buds of those following Voracity, since the philosophy of the Path (the Primum Mobile) changed.

So it is just the universal enactment of how the observer (Aeon) sees the Universe (their Philosophy). Which is why the concept is contingent on the Path. It’s also why for example holding some random philosophy doesn’t inherently grant you power, because a Path is that Philosophy being granted existence.

Which is for the last time, why it is aftertaste-for-Voracity rather than aftertaste-itself. Because Aha literally had to steal it to bring it to its own Path, which wouldn’t be needed if aftertaste-itself existed independently. But obviously, the concept of Voracity very clearly isn’t aftertaste-itself considering its effects.

There is in fact something similar in LoTM:

“Under normal circumstances, the sefirot can't be separated. Only when the original Creator split and created an embodiment of convergence and separation did the sefirot tear apart, allowing some of them to be sucked into our planet."

"In other words, the present sefirah the Mother Goddess of Depravity has is incomplete. The future Great Old One, Mother of All, won't be a complete Great Old One?" Klein pressed.

Adam's lips twitched as though "He" was smiling.

"It was so at the beginning, but the sefirot has the ability to mend itself. The present Mother Goddess of Depravity's sefirah isn't incomplete, and the Brood Hive can also create a Great Old One itself. The only problem is that the Mother Goddess of Depravity can only use a portion of pillar 'She' symbolizes, unless she has fused with the Brood Hive again.

"This has also caused the birth of life and the feminist powers in the entire universe to undergo a certain anomaly. However, thousands of years of time at astronomical scales is a very short period of time, and the corresponding influence hasn't spread.”

^ Where it is not femininity as corresponding to MGoDs Pathway(s) that was affected but rather femininity-itself.

This would be something at the very least required to consider CM1, but alas Hoyo went out of its way to specify the opposite.

 

[Mbpoops]

Shaoji is my dad and he told me my soul is cm1

 

[Le'garde273]

To this day i am still confused how back then this site put soul as cm1, while the whole scan just about solid im2 and just because there is scan that told soul was a conceptual honeycomb that actually refer to structural framework rather an concept in abstract way

 

[Mbpoops]

To this day i am still confused how back then this site put soul as cm1, while the whole scan just about solid im2 and just because there is scan that told soul was a conceptual honeycomb that actually refer to structural framework rather an concept in abstract way

Because we had a staff. Staff = free wank

 

[SuperNova55555]

To this day i am still confused how back then this site put soul as cm1, while the whole scan just about solid im2 and just because there is scan that told soul was a conceptual honeycomb that actually refer to structural framework rather an concept in abstract way

Mind you ‘conceptual honeycomb’ just refers to how a Soul unities information perceived through things like sight and hearing lel. The Soul is also not transcendental in any sense in Hoyo, that’s explicitly what Otto’s entire arc is about; it’s just a bunch of information.

 

[Le'garde273]

Because we had a staff. Staff = free wank

GARRRRIIIII

Mind you ‘conceptual honeycomb’ just refers to how a Soul unities information perceived through things like sight and hearing lel. The Soul is also not transcendental in any sense in Hoyo, that’s explicitly what Otto’s entire arc is about; it’s just a bunch of information.

Ain't that what exactly i am referring to

 

[Voidnether]

To this day i am still confused how back then this site put soul as cm1, while the whole scan just about solid im2 and just because there is scan that told soul was a conceptual honeycomb that actually refer to structural framework rather an concept in abstract way

But then you realize this is the only time Genshin has CM1 back when Genshin Souls were 1:1 of Honkai

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

I’m not exactly sure what part of this is incompatible with CM2(?)

Frankly speaking, as the source of them, the imaginary holds the causal power of the concepts themselves. Whether or not they exist as real existents is beside the point here. What is relevant is how they are applied in regards to Paths… which is CM2-esque.

Paths are Philosophies, that seems pretty obvious. The effect of the Path of Erudition is Determinism, so it morphs the Universe that way. It is, in a sense, the creation of a philosophy/concept and thus that philosophy is enacted unto the Universe itself. But it is not the concepts-themselves, just how they wish to enact them on the Universe.

Which is, again, consistent with the theme of HSR; that being the interrelation between quantum mechanics and the observer. A Philosophy is how one sees the Universe, and how one’s ideals are enacted. It is not that taste buds themselves were affected by Aha, but simply the taste buds of those following Voracity, since the philosophy of the Path (the Primum Mobile) changed.

So it is just the universal enactment of how the observer (Aeon) sees the Universe (their Philosophy). Which is why the concept is contingent on the Path. It’s also why for example holding some random philosophy doesn’t inherently grant you power, because a Path is that Philosophy being granted existence.

Which is for the last time, why it is aftertaste-for-Voracity rather than aftertaste-itself. Because Aha literally had to steal it to bring it to its own Path, which wouldn’t be needed if aftertaste-itself existed independently. But obviously, the concept of Voracity very clearly isn’t aftertaste-itself considering its effects.

There is in fact something similar in LoTM:

^ Where it is not femininity as corresponding to MGoDs Pathway(s) that was affected but rather femininity-itself.

This would be something at the very least required to consider CM1, but alas Hoyo went out of its way to specify the opposite.

Well if you are saying the Imaginary is the superior form of concepts and where they originate from, then the Imaginary is CM1. But it's clear that Paths also have sway over the universe. And they don't have any of CM2's "weaknesses".

And no I disagree. Yes. Aftertaste did not change in its essence. The concept was simply allocated from Voracity to Elation (the same way Imaginary Energy is allocated from the Imaginary into Paths). It did not change in any way how it's perceived because it was simply stolen from one Path to another..

Aftertaste would exist either way as a concept within the Imaginary. It's just that the Paths took it under their domain. Even if it's "aftertaste-for-voracity" as you say, that concept is still taken from the Imaginary and "kept" under either Path's control and manifests in a way the Path/Aeon controls. The effects of the Paths are CM1 for the universe and distributed across its entirety because they are taken from the Imaginary that is CM1 in itself and has all the concepts already emerged. Idk if you get it I know I am not explaining it well but I can't put it into thoughts rn...

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

Because we had a staff. Staff = free wank

Why isn't vietthai wanking

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

And when are you sending me your picture I will make you a ho