Natsuki Subaru VS Gojo Satoru

[Niklmfao]

Rules:
1. Natsuki Subaru is in his Arc 10 key with all Optional Equipment (9-B, 9-B with Whip, higher with Invisible Providence, higher with Beatrice) while Gojo Satoru has up to 7-B with his Cursed Techniques.
2. Speed is equalized.
3. Starting distance is 20m.
4. SBA.

Vote:
Natsuki Subaru: SatellaTheWoE, UrongSygn1
Gojo Satoru:
Inconclusive:

 

[Random-Helper323]

9-B vs 7-B. Is there any reason this isn't a stomp?

 

[Niklmfao]

9-B vs 7-B. Is there any reason this isn't a stomp?

9-B is only physically. There are spells that are much higher tiered that Natsuki can cast.

 

[NitroWatch]

I think this depends on who can figure out their wincons first. Like Subaru using BFR or Gojo using domain expansion. I think Subaru would win tho since Gojo doesn’t really use domain expansion at first and would use something like purple or blue to instant kill Subaru. Subaru would realize Gojo isn’t something to be trifled with, and use Ui/Al shamak next loop

 

[Niklmfao]

I think this depends on who can figure out their wincons first. Like Subaru using BFR or Gojo using domain expansion. I think Subaru would win tho since Gojo doesn’t really use domain expansion at first and would use something like purple or blue to instant kill Subaru. Subaru would realize Gojo isn’t something to be trifled with, and use Ui/Al shamak next loop

Subaru also has Invisible Providence. That bypasses infinity, so he can do that too. And Beatrice can help Subaru dodge his attacks, so I don't think it'll be an insta-kill. Subaru also have Ol Shamak, which can seal Gojo but that's probably not needed.

 

[NitroWatch]

Subaru also has Invisible Providence. That bypasses infinity, so he can do that too. And Beatrice can help Subaru dodge his attacks, so I don't think it'll be an insta-kill. Subaru also have Ol Shamak, which can seal Gojo but that's probably not needed.

Invisible providence would literally do no damage to Gojo even if it bypassed infinity and Gojo’s blue can pull his opponents closer, rendering dodging useless

 

[AThe1412]

9-B vs 7-B. Is there any reason this isn't a stomp?

Yeah, I don't see how Subaru won't eventually win here. Gojo won't go for UV right away, and every time Subaru dies, he forgets about it and just kills him again. The cycle repeats until Subaru uses his wincons.

 

[Niklmfao]

Invisible providence would literally do no damage to Gojo even if it bypassed infinity and Gojo’s blue can pull his opponents closer, rendering dodging useless

If Subaru crushed Gojo's heart or brain stem or something, Gojo would die. And yeah Gojo can use blue but it's very much possible for Subaru to win if he uses EMM to propel himself towards Gojo, then use IP to one-shot him.

 

[Mbpoops]

how does subaru or beatrice touch gojo

 

[NitroWatch]

how does subaru or beatrice touch gojo

Bfr

 

[Phoenks]

Gojo only win con is 0.2 second domain expansion. Meanwhile Subaru has multiple options like space manipulation, BFR, black holes, invisible Providence...

So Subaru just wins on versatility and likelihood of win condition happening.

 

[Mbpoops]

Bfr

fairs

 

[Niklmfao]

how does subaru or beatrice touch gojo

spatial manip, invisible providence, not to mention that they have Shamak which would do wonders to Gojo.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Subaru resists mind hax, dawg. UV isn't doing anything to him.


And Infinity isn't stopping Minya either. They're time-stopping crystals. On top of that, Beatrice has multiple forms of spatial manipulation, so bypassing Infinity would be a complete cakewalk for her.

but if yall disagree with that then count my vote for

 

[TauanVictor]

Satoru's Profile is outdated. Probably this needs to be closed.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Satoru's Profile is outdated. Probably this needs to be closed.

its not like he is getting anything added that will change this matchup atm, and other matchups have been made for jjk too so i think this is fine

 

[Niklmfao]

Satoru's Profile is outdated. Probably this needs to be closed.

Nothing that needs to be added for Gojo would change this matchup, so it's fine as it is.

 

[Niklmfao]

Subaru resists mind hax, dawg. UV isn't doing anything to him.


And Infinity isn't stopping Minya either. They're time-stopping crystals. On top of that, Beatrice has multiple forms of spatial manipulation, so bypassing Infinity would be a complete cakewalk for her.

but if yall disagree with that then count my vote for

So Subaru FRA?

 

[LaserPrecision]

If we think Subaru has a 100% win-rate, and nothing that could be added to the profile would change how the match go then what're we voting for. It'd just be a stomp match.

 

[Phoenks]

If we think Subaru has a 100% win-rate, and nothing that could be added to the profile would change how the match go then what're we voting for. It'd just be a stomp match.

Subaru doesn't have a 100% win rate and Satella is wanking as always.

Subaru does not resist UV. He doesn't resist information type 1 being pumped into his head.

And no, Minya does not bypass Infinity. It time stops whatever it hits. It has to hit you to time stop you. It isn't hitting Gojo through Infinity.

Gojo has win conditions if he uses a short duration UV or just KOs. They are simply unlikely, so Subaru wins majority of the time via his actual methods of bypassing Infinity.

 

[Niklmfao]

Subaru doesn't have a 100% win rate and Satella is wanking as always.

Subaru does not resist UV. He doesn't resist information type 1 being pumped into his head.

And no, Minya does not bypass Infinity. It time stops whatever it hits. It has to hit you to time stop you. It isn't hitting Gojo through Infinity.

Gojo has win conditions if he uses a short duration UV or just KOs. They are simply unlikely, so Subaru wins majority of the time via his actual methods of bypassing Infinity.

Problem with short duration UV is that, its OOC for him to do that. And a regular KO could work, but he does have Beatrice with him, so Gojo would need to do both of them at the same time. Otherwise one would wake the other. Not to mention, it'd be OOC for him to KO too since he doesn't normally do that in 1v1s, since I'm assuming they're fighting to the death. Not to mention, one full UV would kill Subaru and he'd be able to come back from that.

TLDR; Gojo has wincons, but is OOC to do them (since he doesn't know about RBD). Subaru has too many wincons that are in-character.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Gojo has win conditions if he uses a short duration UV or just KOs. They are simply unlikely, so Subaru wins majority of the time via his actual methods of bypassing Infinity.

What moves actually bypass infinity then and what do they do?

 

[LaserPrecision]

Problem with short duration UV is that, its OOC for him to do that. And a regular KO could work, but he does have Beatrice with him, so Gojo would need to do both of them at the same time. Otherwise one would wake the other. Not to mention, it'd be OOC for him to KO too since he doesn't normally do that in 1v1s, since I'm assuming they're fighting to the death. Not to mention, one full UV would kill Subaru and he'd be able to come back from that.

TLDR; Gojo has wincons, but is OOC to do them (since he doesn't know about RBD). Subaru has too many wincons that are in-character.

Gojo has never once used Unlimited Void to kill someone in the entire series. He's tried/killed people after affecting them with it, but he's never once shown trying to kill someone with information overload. Not Jogo, not the Disaster Curses/Transfigured humans, nor Sukuna.

So how can you say it's out of character when every time we've seen him use it it wasn't to kill someone with it. That'd be an assertion without evidence to substantiate it (Even if you want to argue the circumstances of each).

 

[Robo432343]

Subaru winning against Gojo

I wonder how much cursed energy Subaru has coz of the miasma stuff

 

[Phoenks]

What moves actually bypass infinity then and what do they do?

BFR is the most likely one. Beatrice (Subaru partner) can spatially transport stuff into another dimension with Yin Magic.

She could also create a Black Hole or just manipulate space in general.

Invisible Providence is an invisible hand thing that could be used as layered intangibility/invisibility to negate Gojo's durability and crush his heart or something (however, this is not in-character for Subaru)

Depending on if magic is equalized to cursed energy, there are two other possibilities:

If magic = cursed energy, then EMT would nullify Infinity/Limitless and give Subaru way more options to kill Gojo. (EMT is basically a power nullification barrier. In the verse it can nullify all magic power in its radius)

If magic =/= cursed energy, then Shamak would bypass Infinity and obscure all of Gojo's senses. (Shamak is like a magic mist that cuts off all of your senses and distorts your mind so you have no will to fight)

 

[Mommyleona]

Subaru resists mind hax, dawg. UV isn't doing anything to him.

not that kind of mind hax

 

[Niklmfao]

Gojo has never once used Unlimited Void to kill someone in the entire series. He's tried/killed people after affecting them with it, but he's never once shown trying to kill someone with information overload. Not Jogo, not the Disaster Curses/Transfigured humans, nor Sukuna.

So how can you say it's out of character when every time we've seen him use it it wasn't to kill someone with it. That'd be an assertion without evidence to substantiate it (Even if you want to argue the circumstances of each).

Gojo kills curses... not humans. That's why he doesn't try to kill people with it. You can argue about the time he wanted to use it against Jogo, but that's because he wanted to obtain info from Jogo and then exorcise him. With Sukuna, he did try to kill Sukuna, but Sukuna can't be killed with UV alone, so it failed.

If Gojo was as evil as Sukuna, he'd have killed people with it, but the thing is, Gojo is so strong that he can beat most curses without UV. Only person he truly needed UV for, was Sukuna.

In a fight where Gojo wants to kill, he'd probably not use UV unless his other techniques like Blue or Red or Purple didn't work and the only way to try to assert victory is UV. Which that can happen with Subaru. Especially since from Gojo's perspective, Subaru would be a person who is well-versed in his abilities, or has future sight.

 

[Niklmfao]

BFR is the most likely one. Beatrice (Subaru partner) can spatially transport stuff into another dimension with Yin Magic.

She could also create a Black Hole or just manipulate space in general.

Invisible Providence is an invisible hand thing that could be used as layered intangibility/invisibility to negate Gojo's durability and crush his heart or something (however, this is not in-character for Subaru)

Depending on if magic is equalized to cursed energy, there are two other possibilities:

If magic = cursed energy, then EMT would nullify Infinity/Limitless and give Subaru way more options to kill Gojo. (EMT is basically a power nullification barrier. In the verse it can nullify all magic power in its radius)

If magic =/= cursed energy, then Shamak would bypass Infinity and obscure all of Gojo's senses.

This is true, although the only thing about IP I'd say, is that if Subaru is fighting Gojo and has seen that many attacks don't work against him bc of Infinity, and tried punching Gojo with IP and see that it works but still dies, it's not entirely out of character that Subaru would try to kill Gojo through using IP on his heart or something. He did something similar with EMM to propel him towards Regulus, then punch Regulus. I don't see how, with enough information from past loops, Subaru wouldn't try the same thing but with his heart or something.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Gojo kills curses... not humans. That's why he doesn't try to kill people with it. You can argue about the time he wanted to use it against Jogo, but that's because he wanted to obtain info from Jogo and then exorcise him. With Sukuna, he did try to kill Sukuna, but Sukuna can't be killed with UV alone, so it failed.

If Gojo was as evil as Sukuna, he'd have killed people with it, but the thing is, Gojo is so strong that he can beat most curses without UV. Only person he truly needed UV for, was Sukuna.

In a fight where Gojo wants to kill, he'd probably not use UV unless his other techniques like Blue or Red or Purple didn't work and the only way to try to assert victory is UV. Which that can happen with Subaru. Especially since from Gojo's perspective, Subaru would be a person who is well-versed in his abilities, or has future sight.

He didn't try to kill Sukuna with Unlimited Void, he tried to freeze him long enough to force him to separate from Megumi's body (When he finally hit Sukuna, he didn't decide to go for a lethal brain attack, but instead said he would rip his heart out because he already knows Sukuna can survive without one).

If we have no instances of Gojo letting people die to UV, then you can't make the assertion it's ooc for him to not kill people without because it's not founded by evidence, and is the opposite of what's shown in the series.

You also forget to mention that for Gojo to open domain he needs to uncover his Six Eyes which gives him a lot of information on the opponent's abilities and weaknesses which would let him know Subaru's abilities and that killing him is the efficient way to take him out (It would also explain to him why Subaru is so familiar with all of his moves). He'd also be aware of his moves which could bypass Infinity.

So yes, going for incap if he decides to pop domain is most likely because

1. He's never shown in-universe that he'll kill someone with the information alone and either closes domain, or tries to harm them physically instead.
2. His Six Eyes will reveal important information to him about Subaru's abilities and how he an circumvent it, letting him know that killing him is actually the worst choice and to change up his fighting style to make himself less predictable (Similar to how he changed how he fought against Sukuna when he knew about Mahoraga to avoid him adapting).

 

[Phoenks]

You also forget to mention that for Gojo to open domain he needs to uncover his Six Eyes which gives him a lot of information on the opponent's abilities and weaknesses which would let him know Subaru's abilities and that killing him is the efficient way to take him out (It would also explain to him why Subaru is so familiar with all of his moves). He'd also be aware of his moves which could bypass Infinity.

Okay, I hard disagree with this.

If you equalize magic and cursed energy, then maybe he would be able to know of Subaru/Beatrice magic, but he would absolutely not be capable of knowing about his Authorities (Return by Death & Invisible Providence). Not only are they distinct from magic, but nobody in the verse with info analysis can deduce them.

And even then, learning about RBD is a win condition for Subaru, because Satella would come out. Gojo is smoked if that happens.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Okay, I hard disagree with this.

If you equalize magic and cursed energy, then maybe he would be able to know of Subaru/Beatrice magic, but he would absolutely not be capable of knowing about his Authorities (Return by Death & Invisible Providence). Not only are they distinct from magic, but nobody in the verse with info analysis can deduce them.

And even then, learning about RBD is a win condition for Subaru, because Satella would come out. Gojo is smoked if that happens.

If those abilities are resistant to information analysis then that's fine. Though I think Gojo would take caution against a strange dude he never met knowing every one of his moves and reading him like a book. If he fought differently against an adaptive opponent in-canon (Mahoraga), I don't see why he wouldn't do so here.

That said, Gojo's Six Eyes don't work exclusively on Cursed Energy, they could sense Toji (Also Six Eyes doesn't even read Cursed Energy to understand a technique. Cursed Techniques are engraved into the brain and soul/innate domain of every Sorcerer. So it'd be a biological/spiritual tell. Cursed Techniques are just manifested/powered by CE).

I imagine Six Eyes should still give him useful information on Subaru, just nothing in regards to his abilities that explicitly resist information analysis. So nothing on RBD or Invisible Providence.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Subaru resists mind hax, dawg. UV isn't doing anything to him.

UV isn't just mind hax

It's forcebly overloading the brain with infinite information, so it's more information manipulation rather than mind hax

 

[Phoenks]

If those abilities are resistant to information analysis then that's fine. Though I think Gojo would take caution against a strange dude he never met knowing every one of his moves and reading him like a book. If he fought differently against an adaptive opponent in-canon (Mahoraga), I don't see why he wouldn't do so here.

That said, Gojo's Six Eyes don't work exclusively on Cursed Energy, they could sense Toji (Also Six Eyes doesn't even read Cursed Energy to understand a technique. Cursed Techniques are engraved into the brain and soul/innate domain of every Sorcerer. So it'd be a biological/spiritual tell. Cursed Techniques are just manifested/powered by CE).

I imagine Six Eyes should still give him useful information on Subaru, just nothing in regards to his abilities that explicitly resist information analysis. So nothing on RBD or Invisible Providence.

Well, to be more clear.

Characters like Cecilus, who can correctly guess all the abilities (magic) and martial arts someone possesses at a glance, possibly even including authorities (he guessed Al's authority, which works similarly to RBD) can only really get a vague idea of what Subaru does (He believes that Subaru can see the future or something along those lines)

That's about the same limit Gojo would have in regards to analyzing Subaru.

And like I said, even in the scenario that he does info analyze Subaru's soul or something and learns about it, he loses due to that condition activating RBD's penalty and summoning Satella.

 

[UrongSygn1]

Subaru FRA, Ol Shamak-diff ig?

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

People dont agree with his mind hax resistance working so i will drop that i suppose.

On another note though, I don't see any basis for dismissing Minya. They're explicitly described as crystals of stopped time, and there's no evidence that Infinity can interact with, let alone negate, time-based hax. Arguing otherwise is an assumption without any supporting feats and is pure wank.

Besides that he also has the following as possible wincons

• Mind Manipulation & Empathic Manipulation (El Shamak can rob a target of their very thoughts and their fighting strength itself)

Beatrice can also nullify curses

• Power Nullification (Beatrice can remove curses from others. E・M・T nullifies all magic around her)

Which reminds me, aren't there already a ton of curses that are fighting inside of Subaru? If Gojo tries to use a curse on him, there is a good chance it just wouldn't work because of the other 2 curses.

There is of course the classic sealing and summoning a black hole up his ass

• Sealing (Can seal others with Ying Magic, making their bodies harden like wax, and preventing them from moving or thinking)

• Black Hole Creation (With Ul Shamak)

 

[Niklmfao]

People dont agree with his mind hax resistance working so i will drop that i suppose.

On another note though, I don't see any basis for dismissing Minya. They're explicitly described as crystals of stopped time, and there's no evidence that Infinity can interact with, let alone negate, time-based hax. Arguing otherwise is an assumption without any supporting feats and is pure wank.

Besides that he also has the following as possible wincons

Beatrice can also nullify curses

Which reminds me, aren't there already a ton of curses that are fighting inside of Subaru? If Gojo tries to use a curse on him, there is a good chance it just wouldn't work because of the other 2 curses.

There is of course the classic sealing and summoning a black hole up his ass

I think Phoenks is trying to say that Minya isn't stopped in time itself, rather it stops the time of whatever it touches. Although, I don't personally agree with that claim since the novels state that its "arrows OF stagnant time" so I think you have a point that something that is stopped in time, might not be affected by Infinity. To be fair, Infinity can detect things based on its velocity, mass, and cursed energy. I don't know if Minya arrows have any velocity or mass due to being stopped in time. So its unknown if they get through Infinity.

But it's kind of a moot point from what it seems from others. Considering Subaru has so many wincons.
Since the discussion is about over, has the voting started now?
Who's voting for who?