[18-8-0] The God of War VS The Sword Saint - Kratos Vs Reinhard - God of War vs Re:Zero

[TheFoolKlien]

I mean, Law Manipulation does exist within the setting in the form of the Furies being law incarnate, Kratos just doesn't have it himself. Also magic being order itself but that part isn't really on profiles so it can be ignored for now.

Rein can't win via any speed based method because he's slower than Kratos inherently. Well, he can but the match then wouldn't be addable to profiles.

He could sense the specific abilities and lethality of the Spear of Destiny the moment his fight with the Dark Rider began, it's simultaneous with his regular actions not a special process he has to undergo.

Can you give law manipulation to GoW magic?

 

[GAGGamerTheOverlord]

Can I vote for Kratos now? If so, Kratos FRA

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Can I vote for Kratos now? If so, Kratos FRA

Sure, but I would like more Re:Zero supporters to come here and make args, as this is actually interesting

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

That "anger management" issue is specifically about his overall decisions, it doesn't mean he acts like the Hulk. Literally just look at his intelligence and actual tactics section instead of getting information of Kratos as a warrior from idk, TikTok. Though, all this tells me is that I need to also divide his weaknesses better too.

This isn't even the first time he's been up against an opponent with a weapon that could instantly kill him, one of his main scans for his Info Analysis is him instantly realizing the Spear of Destiny can end his life in an instant regardless of the Dark Rider's power.

And Reinhard isn't dodging body spawning fire. Or what's basically an energy wave of lightning, that's not remotely the same as rain.

you sure about that?

Transcendents like himself can avoid disguised deadly rain by instinctive intuition, and he is said to be able to evade an undodgeable rain or mist of light.

This is why i tell people to read the profiles before making claims, especially when the feat is right there. And again, this misses my point. I never said Kratos wouldnt think Reinhard cant kill him, i said he did underestimate him and focus on the weapon being the issue. Its true that Reinhard by himself cannot kill Kratos, it is the weapon which allows him to do that

Affecting Kratos alone means nothing as that at best restricts his punches and kicks rather than any of his magical options, nothing stops them from being the first hit.

You misunderstood, his life isn't flashing through his eyes, he's perceiving an attack he threw as if it took his entire life to land.

Surely, its the latter interpretation and not the general trope where the character's life flashes before their life. Occam's Razor.

You misunderstood, again. Kratos can process all of this knowledge in moments is the entire point, there's no reason to assume Reinhard will statue him.

This is just false, that much processing power easily qualifies for EG which isnt on his profile nor is it listed under his intelligence section

The fodder do have it then? If not surpass it honestly. They literally imprint their skills on their bones and retain them even if they lose their mind and memories. They don't just have their skills without a gap between their thoughts and actions, their bones will still remember their skills even if without a mind or memories.

Not the same thing as what i am talking about, anytime Kratos even tries to think he will get attacked and would have no way to counter. Also proof that Kratos has this? This seems like an undead thing in the first place and he doesn't have any instinctive action feat on this level in this key.

"Using whatever is at hand to turn the odds to our favor." He as a child, says this lmao.

Anyway, AoE lightning or spawning fire on him go brr.

Transcendents like himself can avoid disguised deadly rain by instinctive intuition, and he is said to be able to evade an undodgeable rain or mist of light.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I'm tired of you people saying this shit.
That's legit law manip. It's just bullshit skill. It's been talked about for god knows how long. Stop saying this shit.

its a feat in the verse, there is no indication of what it is and there is nothing on the wiki that i have seen that personally indexes it well enough. Slapping law manipulation on it would just be misinformation at the current point

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Planck...i said this before but Reinhard isn't affecting magic with his dps but rather kratos himself. His magic being cm type 1 does nothing here when the one being affected is kratos


my vote is for reinhard btw

 

[MasterOwOgay]

Satell Reinhard fra

 

[Ball_of_light]

Sigh What even is this? Voting Kratos.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

All have been counted, and the votes come up 10 for Kratos and 4 for Reinhard. I wouldn't mind extending arguments for 1 day before starting grace - if thread mods are fine with that

 

[Planck69]

All have been counted, and the votes come up 10 for Kratos and 4 for Reinhard. I wouldn't mind extending arguments for 1 day before starting grace - if thread mods are fine with that

...What, that's not how that works. The entire point of 24 hour grace is for that time to vote or whatever.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I will make a summary so people coming in can vote easier, lemme know if i missed anything

Summary

Kratos

Advantages

• Can open with either CQC or ranged magic.
• Most of his offensive options are capable of one-shotting Reinhard if they connect.
• Certain magic abilities (e.g. spawn-on-target fire) bypass conventional dodging and would immediately secure the win if used.
• Information Analysis would allow Kratos to immediately recognize Reinhard as a dangerous opponent rather than treating him as an ordinary human.
• can rage himself into gaining layers into time stop

Disadvantages

• If Kratos opens with CQC, he is placed at a severe disadvantage due to Reinhard's vastly superior combat skill and swordsmanship feats.
• Projectile-based magic (e.g. lightning attacks) can be dodged by Reinhard, making them unreliable win cons.
• His viable win condition is largely restricted to unavoidable magic such as spawn-on-target fire (magic is CM Type 1).
• Kratos lacks resistance to law manipulation, leaving him vulnerable to Reinhard's Divine Protections.
• While Information Analysis would identify Reinhard as a threat, the Dragon Sword Reid is the primary source of lethal danger. This could plausibly lead Kratos to focus on the weapon itself rather than Reinhard, allowing him to overlook the user as the actual threat.
• very unlikely to rage himself into gaining layers into time stop

---

Reinhard

Advantages

• Possesses the Divine Protection of Initiative, which can immediately activate as a win con and allow him to land a hit, since Kratos has no resistance to law manipulation.
• Godly Intuition ensures Reinhard always identifies and chooses the optimal course of action, preventing him from making suboptimal decisions.
• Vastly superior combat skill gives him a decisive advantage in any close-quarters engagement.
• Has reliable answers to most of Kratos' conventional ranged options by simply dodging projectile-based attacks.
• Is guaranteed to pursue his most effective win condition, whereas Kratos has multiple opening options that can be exploited or countered.

Disadvantages

• Both characters are capable of one-shotting each other.
• If Kratos immediately opens with unavoidable spawn-on-target magic rather than engaging conventionally, Reinhard can be defeated before his other advantages become relevant but Kratos isn't as likely to start with it.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

...What, that's not how that works. The entire point of 24 hour grace is for that time to vote or whatever.

Fair, well Grace started here

 

[Planck69]

One last thing to add, Kratos can also just rage bait himself and overpower his time stop to bypass Rein's resistance (no I am not joking, he can get mad and just gain more hax layers).

Granted, this is less likely to be pulled off rip than an initial attempt at time stop with his Amulet.

 

[BoastJr]

Reinhard FRA ! We need more tier 1 Matches with him

 

[azontr]

Can Kratos not just stop time. The ability seems to be conceptual due to how all Magic in God of War works, and Reinhard's "resistance" only lessens the effectiveness of time stop by 80% (which like, what does that even mean).

I fail to understand how Kratos does not no-diff.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

One last thing to add, Kratos can also just rage bait himself and overpower his time stop to bypass Rein's resistance (no I am not joking, he can get mad and just gain more hax layers).

Granted, this is less likely to be pulled off rip than an initial attempt at time stop with his Amulet.

added

but this as a first move seems negligible i wont lie, especially for this key

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Can Kratos not just stop time. The ability seems to be conceptual due to how all Magic in God of War works, and Reinhard's "resistance" only lessens the effectiveness of time stop by 80% (which like, what does that even mean).

I fail to understand how Kratos does not no-diff.

the thing with reinhards magic res slop is that he did gain higher resistances if he needs them, like he also had fire rest for 80% but then got fireplay, sumburn and the others, same for soul and water manip plus i am pretty confident he had some other way to resist it too however i did need to look for it

 

[BoastJr]

Tappei was drunk when he explained his Hax Resistance

Instory he just negs most hax used on him like what satella mentioned. It just doesn't work on him 99% of the time because of Divine Blessings

 

[azontr]

the thing with reinhards magic res slop is that he did gain higher resistances if he needs them, like he also had fire rest for 80% but then got fireplay, sumburn and the others plus i am pretty confident he had some other way to resist it too however i did need to look for it

The ability is Conceptual (Type 1) and Informational (Type 2) in nature. No resistance he gains will have any effect. So, again, explain to me how Kratos doesn't stomp.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

The ability is Conceptual (Type 1) and Informational (Type 2) in nature. No resistance he gains will have any effect. So, again, explain to me how Kratos doesn't stomp.

artefacts from what i can see do not have those

 

[azontr]

All magic in God of War has those.

 

[Planck69]

artefacts from what i can see do not have those

I mean, all magic in the setting is that. It just goes without saying.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I mean, all magic in the setting is that. It just goes without saying.

afaik you did need to get that accepted and added to the profile, there is no mention of artefact having cm type 1 magic on the profile

 

[azontr]

It's already accepted. The artifacts are magic, and conceptual and information nature for magic is accepted. You don't explicitly need to add it to the profile, since it's intuitive. So, again, explain how Kratos doesn't stomp.

 

[Planck69]

afaik you did need to get that accepted and added to the profile, there is no mention of artefact having cm type 1 magic

....It is????? They use magic. That's CM 1. There is no non-CM 1 magic in God of War. It's the foundation of all of reality.

 

[Planck69]

It's already accepted. The artifacts are magic, and conceptual and information nature for magic is accepted. You don't explicitly need to add it to the profile, since it's intuitive. So, again, explain how Kratos doesn't stomp.

Yeah, like can you imagine I repeated "Soul Magic" for every single ability on his profile?

 

[azontr]

Like seriously though, how does Reinhard even pull off his win-condition. People keep talking about skill and junk yet nobody talks about the fact that Kratos has multiple abilities that he can pull off instantly that win him the fight immediately.

Reinhard swings a sword, Kratos thinks. I'm so confused.

 

[Bobsican]

It seems like Reinhard is most likely to win as he's more likely to lead with a win condition than Kratos IMO, so Reinhard FRA

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Like seriously though, how does Reinhard even pull off his win-condition. People keep talking about skill and junk yet nobody talks about the fact that Kratos has multiple abilities that he can pull off instantly that win him the fight immediately.

Reinhard swings a sword, Kratos thinks. I'm so confused.

Kratos doesn't always lead with magic, while Reinhard always leads with his wincon

And again, he can dodge most of his magic

 

[azontr]

Kratos has information analysis that would tell him immediately that the Dragon Sword is dangerous, so why exactly would he not lead immediately with magic. Close-quarters combat would be the last thing he chooses to do.

 

[Planck69]

Kratos has information analysis that would tell him immediately that the Dragon Sword is dangerous, so why exactly would he not lead immediately with magic. Close-quarters combat would be the last thing he chooses to do.

He's been in the exact same situation when his opponent had a 1-C weapon too and he knew he would die if it was used. Like, I genuinely wonder why this is any different.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Reinhard FRA ! We need more tier 1 Matches with him

It seems like Reinhard is most likely to win as he's more likely to lead with a win condition than Kratos IMO, so Reinhard FRA

Added

 

[Pepsimanslover]

This is why i tell people to read the profiles before making claims, especially when the feat is right there. And again, this misses my point. I never said Kratos wouldnt think Reinhard cant kill him, i said he did underestimate him and focus on the weapon being the issue. Its true that Reinhard by himself cannot kill Kratos, it is the weapon which allows him to do that

Dodging water droplets is not the same as dodging moving Electrons lmao. Sure him dodging rain is cool, it isn't the same as dodging AoE lightning.

Surely, its the latter interpretation and not the general trope where the character's life flashes before their life. Occam's Razor.

We have the feat accepted in his speed feats section as that. Whatever you want it as or think it is despite not having even seen it is irrelevant.

This is just false, that much processing power easily qualifies for EG which isnt on his profile nor is it listed under his intelligence section

It is on his feats section, heck, he defeats Ares, who has that same feat.

Not the same thing as what i am talking about, anytime Kratos even tries to think he will get attacked and would have no way to counter. Also proof that Kratos has this? This seems like an undead thing in the first place and he doesn't have any instinctive action feat on this level in this key.

It is the same thing, heck, it's better.

You asked if Kratos can compare to character's who's thoughts and actions have no gap between, I showed you characters who trained so hard that their skills imprinted to their bones in such a literal manner that they retained their skills as they their mind and souls and body went to shit, and I don't believe I need to explain how the random fodder in Ares's army do not compare to Kratos in their skills or training.

 

[azontr]

Personally, I would like to question the validity of votes cast on both sides, as this match seems to be a stomp in Kratos's favor.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Personally, I would like to question the validity of votes cast on both sides, as this match seems to be a stomp in Kratos's favor.

EE does work and it Reinhardt leading ability + he can spam it

 

[azontr]

A leading ability that requires Reinhard to complete a sword arc, versus Kratos just thinking. I invite you to consider which win-condition will go off quicker.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

A leading ability that requires Reinhard to complete a sword arc, versus Kratos just thinking. I invite you to consider which win-condition will go off quicker.

Don't have to convince me man. I just count the votes

 

[azontr]

Shh, sweet child. You will be convinced against your will.

 

[Planck69]

Honestly, thinking on it more, Kratos can also just restrain him with the telekinesis of the Amulet.

If having a possible win condition (cause Kratos's body doesn't resist EE in this key, that much is true) doesn't make this a stomp then I can keep a vote. But otherwise, yeah.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]