• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

[18-8-0] The God of War VS The Sword Saint - Kratos Vs Reinhard - God of War vs Re:Zero

Status
Not open for further replies.
The Fates are irrelevant in this matchup because if Kratos doesn't return from death within a reasonable timeframe, it would simply be counted as a loss.
No official source gives smth, but we can assume it's an hour or 2 at worst as the Harpies arrive instantly upon Kratos's death and by the time he escapes, Ares cleary as just gotten it given his dialogue (not sure what counts as a responsible time frame tho lowk).
Secondly, he still has to get through the skillslop, which Kratos is incredibly outscaled in. I don't see how he overcomes the sheer gap in combat skill, technique, and overall swordsmanship here.
He very much doesn't need to, he just needs to get a hit in.
Now, onto the other points. While the Divine Protection of Initiative is listed as passive probability manipulation, that's only because we didn't have a better way to index it at the time. It's also law manipulation, acting as a direct constraint imposed on the world itself. Just as water is wet and fire is hot, Reinhard will always land the first hit. I don't see anything on Kratos's profile in this key that would allow him to bypass or negate that.
I love the glaze and all but how would his law manip probability affect any magic attack at all given their CM1 Info 2 based?
Reinhard's perception effectively statues himself, allowing him to swing his sword hundreds of millions of times within that timeframe in his own mind.
Kratos's senses literally alter time, like, literally.

Assuming the worst either way, he saw his entire life (and he's around 50 years at that moment lmao) as he threw a lightning bolt and it left his hands, so he matches it very well nonetheless.

Heck, when he ascends to his throne he understands comabt across time and space in mere moments, and he can fight the god beforehand on equal footing who held that same throne.
Along with this, if you don't possess instinctive action to the point where there's virtually no gap between thought and movement, you'll constantly be exploited in combat. This is the level of skill that characters far below Reinhard are capable of, yet they they wouldn't reach his level even after an eternity of training.
The fodder he sweeps through have this, to the point their instincts remain as they lost their mind and soul. He's fine there.
Finally, how exactly is Kratos supposed to figure out Reinhard's strengths and weaknesses before Reinhard closes the distance and slices him to pieces?
As Planck noted his info analysis and the Amulet, as well as his innate senses that tell him of how deadly a thing can be to him instantly.
how does this work?
It just spawns on him.
why would kratos go for this over just trying to kill him like the brute he is
I love how you ask him to read Reinhard's profile but you wouldn't read Kratos's standards tactics where he as a ****ing child outright says he uses whatever is appropriate for any advantage according to battlefield conditions, and even go on to call Kratos a "brute". Just lovely.
 
No official source gives smth, but we can assume it's an hour or 2 at worst as the Harpies arrive instantly upon Kratos's death and by the time he escapes, Ares cleary as just gotten it given his dialogue (not sure what counts as a responsible time frame tho lowk).
I rewatched the entire scene, and first of all—that shit was peak. I got flashbacks to the first time I played GoW.

As for the matchup, yeah, Kratos was only dead for a couple of hours. However, I still think it counts as a win because after resurrecting, he'd have to physically travel back to the Summit of Sacrifice. He has no instant means of returning there instantly

Per the victory conditions, once death occurs, any applicable victory condition can then take effect. In this case, Kratos resurrecting somewhere else doesn't negate the fact that he'd need to make the journey back on his own.
Death of the opponent also qualifies as an immediate victory, as long as the resulting state of the opponent would, if the fight went on, eventually qualify for at least one of the three priorly listed conditions. The fighter which reaches a victory condition first wins the match.
There's no canonical travel time from Athens to Mount Olympus. If anything, using the real-world distance would be a low-end estimate, since the games consistently depict Greek locations on a much larger scale than their real-world counterparts, for eg. Mount Olympus is portrayed as a colossal mountain with entire regions built into it, and the overall geography is far more expansive than real Greece. So if Kratos had to make the journey conventionally by foot and ship, it'd realistically take days, likely around a week or more.

I'd say that safely qualifies as a win via...bfr. That's a new one for Reinhard, but I'll take it, I guess.
He very much doesn't need to, he just needs to get a hit in.

I love the glaze and all but how would his law manip probability affect any magic attack at all given their CM1 Info 2 based?
its not about affecting the magic, its about affecting kratos
Kratos's senses literally alter time, like, literally.
Cool, that's one way to do it, but the method isn't the important part; the resulting perception boost is still vastly below what Reinhard has.
Assuming the worst either way, he saw his entire life (and he's around 50 years at that moment lmao) as he threw a lightning bolt and it left his hands, so he matches it very well nonetheless.
Seeing flashes of your own life isn't remotely equivalent to instinctively processing combat information with virtually no delay between perception and action. Those are completely different phenomena. If you read novels you did be aware of how many times this happens to characters. In fact, its a real world thing that happens to people.
Heck, when he ascends to his throne he understands comabt across time and space in mere moments, and he can fight the god beforehand on equal footing who held that same throne.
Good for him, but that's knowledge within his own verse and doesn't mean much cross-verse. Mastering every combat style in one verse doesn't automatically translate into mastery against completely different mechanics and fighting styles, especially when the skill gap is this huge.

The fodder he sweeps through have this, to the point their instincts remain as they lost their mind and soul. He's fine there.
I can assure you, they do not. This is a calculated approach to combat where the gaps in your consciousness where you think and then attack are exploited. If you have seen baki, you did know of this as they have something similar however, ReZero characters take it one step further by completely negating any gap between thought and action and anybody who cannot do the same will be open to all forms of counter attacks whenever they move.
As Planck noted his info analysis and the Amulet, as well as his innate senses that tell him of how deadly a thing can be to him instantly.
You might have forgotten this but Reinhard is especially weak against him here, its not even close and he WILL know that. Even if Kratos assumes that he is a threat there is a great chance he did underestimate him although i think he did be aware of his weapon DSR as he specifically commented on learning from his past interactions with zeus about strange weapons.

All in all, this does not seem like something that is decisive enough for him to take Reinhard seriously
It just spawns on him.

I love how you ask him to read Reinhard's profile but you wouldn't read Kratos's standards tactics where he as a ****ing child outright says he uses whatever is appropriate for any advantage according to battlefield conditions, and even go on to call Kratos a "brute". Just lovely.
Calling Kratos a brute 💀
in this key? hell yeah
Kratos' anger management issues make him prone to impulsive and violent behavior as well as severe judgment impairment.
And the standard tactics you claim where he uses "everything" is when he is up against legions of undead and he has to kill a ton of people. That isnt a 1v1 like here and its stated he "found" a better way to do it ie; he didnt start with it. Which leaves this to be up there
This is not exclusive to his weapons and physical combat approach, as Kratos will regularly use all of his available magical abilities in battle one after the other.
I think you're conflating Kratos using all of his available options with him overtime, as him immediately opening with every tool he has. The scans don't actually support that interpretation like, at all.
 
That "anger management" issue is specifically about his overall decisions, it doesn't mean he acts like the Hulk. Literally just look at his intelligence and actual tactics section instead of getting information of Kratos as a warrior from idk, TikTok. Though, all this tells me is that I need to also divide his weaknesses better too.

This isn't even the first time he's been up against an opponent with a weapon that could instantly kill him, one of his main scans for his Info Analysis is him instantly realizing the Spear of Destiny can end his life in an instant regardless of the Dark Rider's power.

And Reinhard isn't dodging body spawning fire. Or what's basically an energy wave of lightning, that's not remotely the same as rain.
 
Is it Standard?
Yes, but it's also restrictable so you can do that.

Are there any more argument ?, from what I see there no way reinhard can win here, voting kratos

With the way the match has been going, Reinhard does have his own win condition this time at least, so it's no longer a stomp but yeah, my vote remains with Kratos.
 
If Reinhard leads with EE then I guess it can incap Kratos? Pretty sure KOing someone for a hour is enough unless I'm reading SBA wrong. If Reinhard doesn't start with EE then Kratos brutally beats him.
 
If Reinhard leads with EE then I guess it can incap Kratos? Pretty sure KOing someone for a hour is enough unless I'm reading SBA wrong. If Reinhard doesn't start with EE then Kratos brutally beats him.
He does open with it (else this would be a stomp), Kratos just isn't a statue in a turn based RPG or smth.
 
I believe Reinhard can win with his opening moves and adapt to whatever Kratos throws at him.
He's not adapting to Type 1 CM/Type 2 info without feats of doing so.

Wasn't it AoE with like 9000 km range?
Both are within each other's range here so it's not as though this means anything. Heck, Kratos has Interstellar range Power Nullification with the Eyes of Truth.
 
Both are within each other's range here so it's not as though this means anything. Heck, Kratos has Interstellar range Power Nullification with the Eyes of Truth.
Then he just nulls EE and stomps, no? Reinhard may techincally have a wincon but he can't use it because it gets negged
 
its not about affecting the magic, its about affecting kratos
Affecting Kratos alone means nothing as that at best restricts his punches and kicks rather than any of his magical options, nothing stops them from being the first hit.
Seeing flashes of your own life isn't remotely equivalent to instinctively processing combat information with virtually no delay between perception and action. Those are completely different phenomena. If you read novels you did be aware of how many times this happens to characters. In fact, its a real world thing that happens to people.
You misunderstood, his life isn't flashing through his eyes, he's perceiving an attack he threw as if it took his entire life to land.
Good for him, but that's knowledge within his own verse and doesn't mean much cross-verse. Mastering every combat style in one verse doesn't automatically translate into mastery against completely different mechanics and fighting styles, especially when the skill gap is this huge.
You misunderstood, again. Kratos can process all of this knowledge in moments is the entire point, there's no reason to assume Reinhard will statue him.
I can assure you, they do not. This is a calculated approach to combat where the gaps in your consciousness where you think and then attack are exploited. If you have seen baki, you did know of this as they have something similar however, ReZero characters take it one step further by completely negating any gap between thought and action and anybody who cannot do the same will be open to all forms of counter attacks whenever they move.
The fodder do have it then? If not surpass it honestly. They literally imprint their skills on their bones and retain them even if they lose their mind and memories. They don't just have their skills without a gap between their thoughts and actions, their bones will still remember their skills even if without a mind or memories.
And the standard tactics you claim where he uses "everything" is when he is up against legions of undead and he has to kill a ton of people. That isnt a 1v1 like here and its stated he "found" a better way to do it ie; he didnt start with it. Which leaves this to be up there
"Using whatever is at hand to turn the odds to our favor." He as a child, says this lmao.

Anyway, AoE lightning or spawning fire on him go brr.
 
I will admit "Kratos is a dumb rage beast" is one of the rarer nonsense I've seen recently. Good to see it's still around.

Then he just nulls EE and stomps, no? Reinhard may techincally have a wincon but he can't use it because it gets negged
Guess it depends on how the rules are on this cause there's technically a non-zero chance of Kratos using smth else to directly attack Rein.
 
You misunderstood, again. Kratos can process all of this knowledge in moments is the entire point, there's no reason to assume Reinhard will statue him.
Reinhard can't win via being faster in perception anyways cause he's the slower one in speed unequal.
 
Are there any more argument ?, from what I see there no way reinhard can win here, voting kratos
Counted

Yes, but it's also restrictable so you can do that.
Hmmm...I'll allow it as long as it doesn't turn the match into a stomp for Kratos

With the way the match has been going, Reinhard does have his own win condition this time at least, so it's no longer a stomp but yeah, my vote remains with Kratos.
Counted

I believe Reinhard can win with his opening moves and adapt to whatever Kratos throws at him.
Coutned as a vote for Reinhard

Then he just nulls EE and stomps, no? Reinhard may techincally have a wincon but he can't use it because it gets negged
Reinhard resists Power Null

Anyway, AoE lightning or spawning fire on him go brr.
Counted as a vote for Kratos
 
You know, it is very surprising to see that Kratos lacks law manip and resistence to EE (at least on his two first keys)
Overall i'd say that Reinhardt Wins simply because he would start with his EE (because of his intuition and shi) plus the fact that he would skill slop

The first hit is one of his Divine protections which are all acepted to be Law manip

Man tbh, the best feats i've seen on Kratos' profile is at most mid tier level skill feats in rezero

Reinhardt once dodged all raindrops in a rain and i heard it was stated that he could dodge every grain of sand of a sandstorm
Also for this sorry man, vote for Reinhardt
 
I rewatched the entire scene, and first of all—that shit was peak. I got flashbacks to the first time I played GoW.

As for the matchup, yeah, Kratos was only dead for a couple of hours. However, I still think it counts as a win because after resurrecting, he'd have to physically travel back to the Summit of Sacrifice. He has no instant means of returning there instantly

Per the victory conditions, once death occurs, any applicable victory condition can then take effect. In this case, Kratos resurrecting somewhere else doesn't negate the fact that he'd need to make the journey back on his own.

There's no canonical travel time from Athens to Mount Olympus. If anything, using the real-world distance would be a low-end estimate, since the games consistently depict Greek locations on a much larger scale than their real-world counterparts, for eg. Mount Olympus is portrayed as a colossal mountain with entire regions built into it, and the overall geography is far more expansive than real Greece. So if Kratos had to make the journey conventionally by foot and ship, it'd realistically take days, likely around a week or more.

I'd say that safely qualifies as a win via...bfr. That's a new one for Reinhard, but I'll take it, I guess.

its not about affecting the magic, its about affecting kratos

Cool, that's one way to do it, but the method isn't the important part; the resulting perception boost is still vastly below what Reinhard has.

Seeing flashes of your own life isn't remotely equivalent to instinctively processing combat information with virtually no delay between perception and action. Those are completely different phenomena. If you read novels you did be aware of how many times this happens to characters. In fact, its a real world thing that happens to people.

Good for him, but that's knowledge within his own verse and doesn't mean much cross-verse. Mastering every combat style in one verse doesn't automatically translate into mastery against completely different mechanics and fighting styles, especially when the skill gap is this huge.


I can assure you, they do not. This is a calculated approach to combat where the gaps in your consciousness where you think and then attack are exploited. If you have seen baki, you did know of this as they have something similar however, ReZero characters take it one step further by completely negating any gap between thought and action and anybody who cannot do the same will be open to all forms of counter attacks whenever they move.

You might have forgotten this but Reinhard is especially weak against him here, its not even close and he WILL know that. Even if Kratos assumes that he is a threat there is a great chance he did underestimate him although i think he did be aware of his weapon DSR as he specifically commented on learning from his past interactions with zeus about strange weapons.

All in all, this does not seem like something that is decisive enough for him to take Reinhard seriously


in this key? hell yeah

And the standard tactics you claim where he uses "everything" is when he is up against legions of undead and he has to kill a ton of people. That isnt a 1v1 like here and its stated he "found" a better way to do it ie; he didnt start with it. Which leaves this to be up there

I think you're conflating Kratos using all of his available options with him overtime, as him immediately opening with every tool he has. The scans don't actually support that interpretation like, at all.
Oh yeah, just to make sure, Stella you are voting for Reinhardt?
 
About Power null: Reinhardt's EE is caused again by his Law manip so i don't think Kratos can nullify it

About Reinhardt's wincons: Reinhardt still has his fist hit divine protection, which is again Law manip so Kratos doesn't resist it.
Reinhardt's intuition is so good that it allows him to always choose the best option, the Author stated that he would be able to beat some one in a chess match even tho he doesn't know anything about chess (it doesn't exist in his world) just because he would always choose the right move.
And as we discussed, Reinhardt has zero delay between his thoughts and his perception speed quite literally statue blitz himself.

About one of Kratos' wincon: I also don't think that Kratos' move which spaws on top the target will hit Reinhardt because once again of his intuition and because he has a divine protection (law manip) for surprise attacks and etc

Based on all this: I believe that Reinhardt will win, if any of Kratos' supporters think i'm wrong and want to correct me, please do so
 
Last edited:
Reinhardt once dodged all raindrops in a rain and i heard it was stated that he could dodge every grain of sand of a sandstorm
I'm tired of you people saying this shit.
That's legit law manip. It's just bullshit skill. It's been talked about for god knows how long. Stop saying this shit.
 
About Power null: Reinhardt's EE is caused again by his Law manip so i don't think Kratos can nullify it

About Reinhardt's wincons: Reinhardt still has his fist hit divine protection, which is again Law manip so Kratos doesn't resist it.
Reinhardt's intuition is so good that it allows him to always choose the best option, the Author stated that he would be able to beat some one in a chess match even tho he doesn't know anything about chess (it doesn't exist in his world) just because he would always choose the right move.
And as we discussed, Reinhardt has zero delay between his thoughts and his perception speed quite literally statue blitz himself.

About one of Kratos' wincon: I also don't think that Kratos' move which spaws on top the target will hit Reinhardt because once again of his intuition and because he has a divine protection (law manip) for surprise attacks and etc

Based on all this: I believe that Reinhardt will win, if any Kratos' supporters want to correct me, please do it
It spawns on his body and is Type 1 CM/Type 2 Info based like all his other abilities. Like this analysis seems to entirely forget Kratos has metaphysical aspects that Reinhard would have no business affecting either.

If I used the same logic being used above, since Kratos can create a forcefield of pure magic then Reinhard can't do anything about it cause he has no feats of affecting or bypassing Type 1 CM.
 
I used the same logic being used above, since Kratos can create a forcefield of pure magic then Reinhard can't do anything about it cause he has no feats of affecting or bypassing Type 1 CM
Genuine question, Can a barrier of cm1 even block law manip? Based on what i saw on the metaphysical aspects pages, no metaphysical aspect can interact with another by default. So wouldn't law manip just go right through/ignore the barrier?
 
Genuine question, Can a barrier of cm1 even block law manip? Based on what i saw on the metaphysical aspects pages, no metaphysical aspect can interact with another by default. So wouldn't law manip just go right through/ignore the barrier?
We'd ask for if it has feats of bypassing that like anything else. You don't see me saying if Reinhard's resistances would matter initially, cause the time stop Kraros has is based on CM Type 1 magic like all other magic he has.

And again, I'm using the same logic being touted here, where for some reason his law hax is effective against all of Kratos's abilities but somehow the latter isn't the case even though Reinhard has no answer to CM 1/Info 2 either.
 
Last edited:
We'd ask for if it has feats of bypassing that like anything else.
My question is, if Law manip can't interact with cm1 and info2, and cm1 and info2 can't interact with Law manip. Wouldn't they both treat each other as incorporeal and pass right through? Because they both lack the ""NPI"" to interact with the other's ""incorporeality""
You don't see me saying if Reinhard's resistances would matter initially, cause the time stop Kraros has is based on CM Type 1 magic like all other magic he has.
That would be a valid argument in my vision, maybe i just don't know much about metaphysical aspects
And again, I'm using the same logic being touted here, where his law hax is effective against all of Kratos's abilities but somehow the latter isn't the case even though Reinhard has no answer to CM 1/Info 2 eieither.
I never said that any of Reinhard's law manip can null Kratos' cm1 and info2, i am saying that Reinhard has ways of dodging his attacks.
For example: I was indeed wrong about saying that Reinhard's divine protection could help qgainst cm1 and info2 spikes. However i still argumented that Reinhard would be able to dodge it because of his Supernatural intuition and i would like to add that Reinhard would see the whole fight in severe slow motion, so it would be extremelly hard to even hit him (remenber that Reinhard's perception speed can statue blitz himself and their speeds were equalized).

This match overall seens to be a "who pulls the trigger first". But i see Reinhard pulling the trigger first and having more chances of landing said shot.

Also i have another question: Kratos can see the Information about the Target, but doesn't that require some time to see and process said Information? and thus Kratos would pull the trigger after Reinhard who will pull his trigger at the start of the match?
 
Voting Kratos FRA

why Reinhard being put against everyone now? I DARE y'all to make a Marvel, DC, Persona or Digimon match at this point
 
Voting Kratos FRA

why Reinhard being put against everyone now? I DARE y'all to make a Marvel, DC, Persona or Digimon match at this point
grinch-smile-grin.gif
 
My question is, if Law manip can't interact with cm1 and info2, and cm1 and info2 can't interact with Law manip. Wouldn't they both treat each other as incorporeal and pass right through? Because they both lack the ""NPI"" to interact with the other's ""incorporeality""
I mean, Law Manipulation does exist within the setting in the form of the Furies being law incarnate, Kratos just doesn't have it himself. Also magic being order itself but that part isn't really on profiles so it can be ignored for now.
That would be a valid argument in my vision, maybe i just don't know much about metaphysical aspects

I never said that any of Reinhard's law manip can null Kratos' cm1 and info2, i am saying that Reinhard has ways of dodging his attacks.
For example: I was indeed wrong about saying that Reinhard's divine protection could help qgainst cm1 and info2 spikes. However i still argumented that Reinhard would be able to dodge it because of his Supernatural intuition and i would like to add that Reinhard would see the whole fight in severe slow motion, so it would be extremelly hard to even hit him (remenber that Reinhard's perception speed can statue blitz himself and their speeds were equalized).
Rein can't win via any speed based method because he's slower than Kratos inherently. Well, he can but the match then wouldn't be addable to profiles.
This match overall seens to be a "who pulls the trigger first". But i see Reinhard pulling the trigger first and having more chances of landing said shot.

Also i have another question: Kratos can see the Information about the Target, but doesn't that require some time to see and process said Information? and thus Kratos would pull the trigger after Reinhard who will pull his trigger at the start of the match?
He could sense the specific abilities and lethality of the Spear of Destiny the moment his fight with the Dark Rider began, it's simultaneous with his regular actions not a special process he has to undergo.
 
Voting Kratos FRA

why Reinhard being put against everyone now? I DARE y'all to make a Marvel, DC, Persona or Digimon match at this point
Oh PLEASE let me see Persona stomp this fraud

My votes for Kratos, I still think he has a higher chance of landing his stuff and avoiding Reinhard's
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top