• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Punishing Gray Raven Discussion Thread (New)

I think only the observers and "THEM" can be potentially higher than low 1-A
AlipheeseXIV is right. For now, we shouldn't upgrade any character because we still don't know much about the Stellar Sea or the Rule Makers

I don't know how long you've been familiar with this site, but gacha games don't exactly have a good track record when it comes to receiving sudden upgrades....

For example, Honkai: Star Rail was suddenly upgraded from a Multi-Galaxy tier to Absolute Infinity or Low 1-A, and then the verse was upgraded again to 1-A+, Because the upgrades were happening so quickly, many members of the site became skeptical and eventually worked together to downgrade Honkai—and they succeeded.
Overall, what I'm trying to say is that we shouldn't rush into upgrading anything, or even seriously think about it for now
 
Can you make a Top 10 list of PGR characters based on power?! I need it...
Just type it
1. Ishmael (Parhelion & Observer) no, I'm not ranking Rulemakers we all know where they'd be
2. SKK (Chaos & Observer)
3. D.Nanami
4. AZ (after erasing Chaos's consciousness)
(Honorable mention for Alpha [Atheism] here)
5. Chaos at the end of ch 31/Lee Hyperreal (both are tied because both defeated the Primal Projection at some point, Chaos and Vonnegut did so in another "ending" according to Ishmael)
6. Primal Projection
(Honorable mention for Selena and Enora here)
7. AZ Cradle
8. Vonnegut
9. Lucia Pyroath (with the Key)
10. Luna Oblivion (post Selene absorption)

For the honorable mentions, yes, Alpha [Atheism] is strong, and she is most likely directly below AZ from ch 33 or directly above her and below D.Nanami but it's very hard to officially place her on the list because the end of ch 41 is not super clear on just what she has become and it is intentionally left a little vague due to us still not understanding the full scale of the Phylotree, and the Fog doesn't really have a tier just hax. Likewise, Enora Lueya and Selena Pianissimo can be right around that Primal Projection tier with the portions of Ishmael's authority that they were randomly given but neither really have feats outside of that to support such a tier, at least not during ch 34, though this can obviously change in the future
 
Last edited:
If you wanna put Primal Projection above Lee you can (since she beat Lee an infinite amount of times basically), but if you do that then Chaos would still be higher since it's implied she beat it in a single attempt, I just took Lee at his highest point there just because, likewise I'm not ranking any other Sefirah besides Alpha because they don't have any feats, just statements at the moment, though eventually they'll probably break into the list
 
If you wanna put Primal Projection above Lee you can (since she beat Lee an infinite amount of times basically), but if you do that then Chaos would still be higher since it's implied she beat it in a single attempt, I just took Lee at his highest point there just because, likewise I'm not ranking any other Sefirah besides Alpha because they don't have any feats, just statements at the moment, though eventually they'll probably break into the list
I always imagined these two like this:
Primal Projection >= Lee Hyperreal (Gate)
1. Ishmael (Parhelion & Observer) no, I'm not ranking Rulemakers we all know where they'd be
2. SKK (Chaos & Observer)
3. D.Nanami
4. AZ (after erasing Chaos's consciousness)
(Honorable mention for Alpha [Atheism] here)
5. Chaos at the end of ch 31/Lee Hyperreal (both are tied because both defeated the Primal Projection at some point, Chaos and Vonnegut did so in another "ending" according to Ishmael)
6. Primal Projection
(Honorable mention for Selena and Enora here)
7. AZ Cradle
8. Vonnegut
9. Lucia Pyroath (with the Key)
10. Luna Oblivion (post Selene absorption)
And seriously?! Is Parhelion Ishmael really so powerful that she's on the same level as an Observer? I didn't think the power gap between her and Primal Projection was that huge.
And another thing...

Before becoming Agent Zero, wasn't Chaos weaker than Cradle when Cradle was Agent Zero? If I remember correctly, Chaos was weaker. However, in Chapter 33, Chaos managed to defeat Cradle with Vonnegut help...

the method used to kill Cradle was the Hetero Core. I don't remember much about it, though
 
I always imagined these two like this:
Primal Projection >= Lee Hyperreal (Gate)
Yeah that's a fine way to interpret it, but if we're going with the strongest interpretations of the character then he would naturally be above it
And seriously?! Is Parhelion Ishmael really so powerful that she's on the same level as an Observer? I didn't think the power gap between her and Primal Projection was that huge.
And another thing...
No? What? You're completely misunderstanding, the projections are not anywhere near the level of their true selves, it's just that it would be redundant to make a top 10 and have 4 of the 10 spots be the literal same character for the same exact reasons 💀
Before becoming Agent Zero, wasn't Chaos weaker than Cradle when Cradle was Agent Zero? If I remember correctly, Chaos was weaker. However, in Chapter 33, Chaos managed to defeat Cradle with Vonnegut help...

the method used to kill Cradle was the Hetero Core. I don't remember much about it, though
What's the confusion when they're two entirely separate characters? One is Chaos from ch 31 who's just an inferior clone of SKK, the other is literally an Observer (SKK) posing as her, so obviously SKK using Chaos as his projection would be much stronger, as again, they literally aren't the same character
 
Last edited:
Just explain in a few sentences why she is so powerful... I'm really curious now, and I'm wondering why she's this strong
She's become this thing called an Overseer, more or less being a possibly Lee Hyperreal/D.Nanami tier existence, as a result she's officially classified as an Agent and can control the Fog that appeared in chapter 31
 
That's about all I can say for now, the rest is subject to change the more we know about her, there's a lot of other minor stuff but just wait until her new profile is released, shouldn't take more than a few months, and if it does it's because one of the newest chapters dropped something
 

Now finally everyone across all sites can stop commenting about this and looking at my blogs when I constantly say they are a WIP
 
We really need to do something about the speed of the Low 1-C characters in PGR

But no matter how much I think about it, I can't come up with any idea for how they could reach Immeasurable Speed
 

Now finally everyone across all sites can stop commenting about this and looking at my blogs when I constantly say they are a WIP
Peak
 
We really need to do something about the speed of the Low 1-C characters in PGR

But no matter how much I think about it, I can't come up with any idea for how they could reach Immeasurable Speed
That's because they can't, there is nothing to do, you'll have to deal with it for now unfortunately
 
How strong is liv currently with the whole sefirah stuff going by chapter 41?
Completely ignoring Liv herself, what she represents, being [Mercy], would otherwise be among the god-tiers, sitting just below the Observers. It essentially serves as the origin of all things in existence, being the blueprint for all things on the Phylotree of Ousia, whether that's the branches (worldlines) or fruits (the [Sefirot]), it all derives from this source. Furthermore, for humanity, or what's expressed as the collective unconscious understanding [Mercy] is the foundational principle upon reaching enlightenment. As for what this means, technically speaking, [Mercy] off rip would have tons of abilities and be a god-tier authority of PGR, in fact, it's suggested that Ishmael herself is another [Mercy] Sefirah, which makes her Merciful One title hit harder, also, Liv (Limpidity) has this ultimate skill called cosmic rebirth which has her invert the world (in context of Mercy, since she's using its authority to utilize this, it means everything existence, but obviously excluding the Gateway and things beyond), place it within her mirror, and then completely destroy it, it's also mentioned that she can witness different worldlines through her mirrors, and so forth. So, Chapter 41 didn't just give us good stuff for [Crown]/[Atheism], but a lot of good stuff for [Mercy], especially in relation to the information the Phylotree Dossier provided.
 
I can't believe it... Please tell me everything about Alpha
As of Chapter 41, Alpha managed to attain the [Crown] and become a Phylotree's Sefirah, being designated as Keter. In doing so, she ended up becoming a higher-dimensional being, who longer existed in the unvierse, she is regarded as an Overseer, or a guider of civilization (in CN), through the Phylotree of Ousia, her gaze extends to all universes across the past, present, and future, her role as an Overseer is to provide humanity with the tools to advance significantly so they can establish links to the Phylotree of Ousia in order to extract more [Sefirah], and presumably those who became [Sefirah] will reach the same state of existence as Alpha, additionally, Alpha herself is pretty unique due to absorbing all of the negative emotions of every universe, she ended up up corrupting the [Crown] and literally causing it to become an [Inverse Sefirah] transforming it into [Atheism], which is designated as Thaumiel, additionally, it's been revealed that the Ascension-Network represents the Qlippoth/Tree of Death, which is why Alpha was shown to redefine it and grant Luna full access to it, alongside a mere projection of herself manifesting and being on the level of an Agent at the bare-minimum with her energy levels rapidly exceeding that. Furthermore, Alpha has the ability to access the Gateway completely, she reached this plane of existence, interacted with Ishmael, and is heavily implied to be able to pass through the Gateway and fight a being from beyond it, which also ties into the reveal on all of the [Sefirot] specifically their mediums (not their divine essences that are etched into the Phylotree) all come from anaylzing data from the Hetero Tower's core, and as such they essentially function as personalized Agent Zeros, which should be sufficient for the AZ Authority requirement that becoming an Observer typically needs, furthermore the Forbidden Fruit PV that was released a long time ago told us that all the [Sefirot] when assembled can open the path to the Gateway, which tracks with Alpha who could casually do this, especially since at the time she was [Crown] who holds the highest position on the Phylotree of Ousia, and of course can do so as [Atheism] who's still the highest, but on its reverse and opposing scheme. Her abilities are pretty ridiculous she's able to prune universes and anchor a specific one that becomes the definitive one while all others perish, she can manipulate causality and fate, see every single universe across the past, present, and future with her mere gaze, can reverse time, stop time, and travel through it being able to go to the Pre-Reset Timeline to interact with Vonnegut while using SKK as an anchor point, she can effortessly manipulate and tear through the Fog casually alongside being able to absorb it into her M.I.N.D. which is stated to be the Phylotree of Ousia itself, and finally, I've saved the best for last because it's genuinely absurd, due to Alpha having devoured all the fruits (the [Sefirot]) of the Phylotree she actually inherits all of their authorties which is expected of Keter, so for every [Sefirah] that appears in the storyline and shows off something impressive like Liv for example with [Mercy] it's an automatic upscale for Alpha, considering that she is [Atheism] though and Kuro revealed that the Sefirah vs Qlippoth ordeal in the storyline is happening, all of her authorities have became [Inverse Sefirah] to go in hand with her position as Thaumiel which has full dominance over the opposite scheme, so in either case Alpha is getting massive upscales in the foreseeable future.

With that said, as an Overseer Alpha isn't actually bound by any of the "rules" Ishmael or Nanami are, since her whole "rebelling against fate" thing is literally weaponized to counteract the "rules", so she can actually freely utilize her higher-dimensional powers to assist humanity, but there is a cost, and that's the Law of Conservation, for every thing Alpha does that impacts civilization, a counter will form in response to it. For example, Alpha gave humanity her cosmic knowledge of the Phylotree of Ousia and what it does, while this is good, this does give our enemies a significant advantage, and more importantly the Cosmic Filtering that Helentine notes to be sending brand new adversaries against us, since humanity will evolve significantly, and we learned that the Master of the Punishing Virus will select a new Agent, so there's a lot in store for the future of the story. Ranking-wise, I would place an Overseer and the [Sefirot] (when they are fully metamorphosized) as being just below the Observers and Nanami (discounting their ability to become Observers from the equation), since they're literally just junior Observers that have the ability to ascend higher.
 
WAIT SO PGR golden child is finailly on the level of other high tiers.. because man when beaten by commander Has Construct level performance with their power armor and is capable of defeating Hetero-Creatures who were capable of killing Alpha who is far superior to Rosetta who casually threw her lance hundreds of kilometers up into space i thought bit bs the same alpha kick most things done.. and only got one upgrade because she fav child who dont really need upgrade unlike many others who geting uprade more 2+ times cough lee luna and lucia she 3 upgrades and alpha over here only geting stupid one upgrade hey now she be on same level as lee 2 upgrade with new upgrade which im happy if alpha get upgrade earned then hell yah make top 10 and remever still holds back because she still dont use the The Punishing Virus still still catching to the lore by from remember still contributes to little of her prowess as an Ascendant and she broke free from the breaking free from the Ascension Network's bond
not sure re connected back since wanted break free anyway point is i was suprise geting outclass by everyone and now her new verson crown is on level as i thought should be top 5 hopefuly she goes higher want fav child to become stronger
 
WAIT SO PGR golden child is finailly on the level of other high tiers.. because man when beaten by commander Has Construct level performance with their power armor and is capable of defeating Hetero-Creatures who were capable of killing Alpha who is far superior to Rosetta who casually threw her lance hundreds of kilometers up into space i thought bit bs the same alpha kick most things done.. and only got one upgrade because she fav child who dont really need upgrade unlike many others who geting uprade more 2+ times cough lee luna and lucia she 3 upgrades and alpha over here only geting stupid one upgrade hey now she be on same level as lee 2 upgrade with new upgrade which im happy if alpha get upgrade earned then hell yah make top 10 and remever still holds back because she still dont use the The Punishing Virus still still catching to the lore by from remember still contributes to little of her prowess as an Ascendant and she broke free from the breaking free from the Ascension Network's bond
not sure re connected back since wanted break free anyway point is i was suprise geting outclass by everyone and now her new verson crown is on level as i thought should be top 5 hopefuly she goes higher want fav child to become stronger
Yeah rejoice, she's finally not a fraud anymore
 
Yeah rejoice, she's finally not a fraud anymore
9c4d23_26IMG-20260623-192447-244.jpg

Could you also make Ishmael's profile like SKK? Separate the keys the same way as in SKK's profile.. It would make the profile look much cleaner and more organized
 
Could you also make Ishmael's profile like SKK? Separate the keys the same way as in SKK's profile.. It would make the profile look much cleaner and more organized
Don't really want to honestly, not only because I prefer how her profile already looks but also because if I do it for Ishmael who only has 3 keys I'm gonna end up wanting to do it for every character who only has that many (I have a pet peeve when things are inconsistent like that)
 
So uh is alpha l1a now or...
from i seen yes i think well would thought so be 100% yes if Lucia Pyroath was still l1a which thought she was and she 9th on the top 10 list so but now lucia is low 1c however i just recheck list and though she is low 1c now Lee Hyperreal is tied on with
5. Chaos at the end of ch 31/Lee Hyperreal (both are tied because both defeated the Primal Projection at some point, Chaos and Vonnegut did so in another "ending" according to Ishmael)
6. Primal Projection and if lee hyperreal is 5 from list says and alpha is 4 which more powerful then then lee that make her l1a too if guessing if she the 4th and lee is 5th the list who top 10 strongest so that alpha is stronger then lee hyper idk about how much but ofc stronger 4th and above him which he is l1a that make her l1a if going lit afterall this top 10 list is based of power so if alpha is on the 4th and lee is 5th.. well make alpha stronger then Hyperreal so yes make alpha l1a and as alip said

Alpha [Atheism] is strong, and she is most likely directly below AZ from ch 33 or directly above her and below D.Nanami but it's very hard to officially place her on the list because the end of ch 41 is not super clear on just what she has become and it is intentionally left a little vague due to us still not understanding the full scale of the Phylotree, and the Fog doesn't really have a tier just hax. Likewise, Enora Lueya and Selena Pianissimo can be right around that Primal Projection tier with the portions of Ishmael's authority that they were randomly given but neither really have feats outside of that to support such a tier, at least not during ch 34, though this can obviously change in the future so she on 4th so she higher az or below her but still puting on 4th and more powerful then lee Hyperreal 100% so yes l1a at min WHICH is Ya our pgr fav child golden kid is the golden kid as she should be now hopefuly become more powerfull and take first spot as golden child but i still which sucks for my story because alpha always way higher so i kept around low 1c to 1c which under my oc as hes around 9d to 10d however he is higher.... but ends up destorying him self if goes any higher like he went to 13d but nearly killed himself in the possses so my oc ofc be stronger but now alpha get place higher even i excepted tbh... now alpha is stronger them me which my oc but i accept it because its alpha got rework bit my story but yes be good confirm just in case though if she l1a because do bit rework which not since in my story low 1c to 1c which thought be at but being l1a is still very easy since char in my story are low 1a to high 1a and few boundless since did include well other char other storys like so story cosmology works anyway so not reworking it just editing it to when i meet alpha again she well be stronger and beat me now yay but i accept alpha for that also forgot unless count og power which is long gone since my oc had reincarnated many times not say how many but enough be over 500k and i call true self or first self before his first reincarnation he would been tier of low 1a to high 1a and during final monent more like lasted 10k years but siting at high 1a before he ended up reincarnation but he long lost his orginal power even if does remember everything which normal does not only time remembed that side was his curret self but dont have access to it of course as its is gone however does have someone close to him who he borrow power from which take to that point but not include here as long story but anyway point is yes from i seen this make alpha low 1a
 
I thought mwi was confirmed for l1c. I recall having this convo a few months back I think but I forget.
The MWI has to match the wiki's standards, plenty of fictional verses have "false" MWI, we haven't argued MWI in PGR for being L1C, so for now it's 2A
 
Munch munch

I don't play this game, but am interested
I just plan on getting atleast half way into my current Gacha, before trying this out

anything I should know before I start it?
monkey-thinking-monkey.gif
 
Back
Top