- 26,479
- 30,847
Friend pointed this out to me on Discord and I lowkey feel stupid ngl.
Universe size revisions
So currently, the Transformers multiverse is currently placed at 1-B for having 17 to 21 dimensions. Now there's isn't a problem with the tier rating itself. All the higher dimensions are still legitimate. So what's the problems I'm covering here? Because what's actually being described as 17 dimensions are actually universes and not the multiverse itself.
First, looking at the famous AVP quote, he's describing the differences in individual universes and the differences the ones in TF's cosmology and the ones within the omniverse.
With this being said, the true scale of a standard universe within the Transformers multiverse is 1-B (17-D to 21-D), and that itself should upgrade the Transformers multiverse timelines from Low 1-C to slightly higher into 1-B (18-D to 22-D)
Now begs the full question, who scales to this?
Scaling revisions
Anyone who fully scales to the being able to full destroy the Transformers multiverse should be fine. This includes:
Only things that change is they now scale to 18-D to 22-D.
Now let's get to the universe busters. This is moreso to hold them under scrutiny and moreso to see if the feats they're involved truly do cause the universe's higher dimensions to be destroyed or only a specific portion for it.
- Nova Prime: He isn't universal to begin with but I wanna get him out of the way. Absolutely not. We already know the dead universe is decaying and getting smaller, no reason to assume he has any control over any higher dimensions.
- Regenesis Shockwave: I'm not entirely sure here. For the most part, Shockwave's regenesis is constantly mentioned to have collapsed "space and time" (All related scan on his profile), nor does he really mention anything related to higher dimensions, which would imply the range of his regenesis schemes to be 4-D/Low 2-C. However, Shockwave also makes a point that the regenesis plan involves turning everything into a power source for Cybertron, leaving the universe to have never "been" to begin with. Which does imply that the entirety of the universes' structure was indeed affected. It'd be wilder to assume that only 4 of its lower dimensions had been annihilated while the other higher ones had somehow just been left unaffected. As such, I feel I propose to give Shockwave a "Low 2-C, possibly 1-B". I don't mind giving him straight up 1-B, but I'll let others decide that.
- D-Void: I think outright 1-B is fine. The D-Void's entire plan involves both merging an entirely separate reality from it with the universe it comes from. Furthermore, the D-Void is described to be "Extra-Dimensional", which supports the idea that the D-Void would indeed be capable of affecting higher dimensions.
- IDW Unicron: Probably.... no. Unlike with Shockwave, Unicron's own universe destroying feat isn't given all that much context beyond that we know he eventually destroy both everything and eventually just "time" itself, and without further context of the extent of Unicron's destruction, this would mostly just cap Unicron's feat to 4-D ranges.
- Terminus Blade: Straight up 1-B for reasoning the same as the D-Void.
- Alternity/Hytherion related characters: Ok this is probably one of the sketchier ones. However, I do believe that they can be scaled to 1-B. Firstly, we currently use the justification that the Alternity are High 1-C with them being able to transcend to the 11th dimension. However, Ichikawa does make a point in the same tweet that the 11th dimension isn't necessarily their limit and they may have evolved even higher up. Furthermore, it's a massive narrative point that the Alternity are literally too massive to enter universes, and it becomes the entire point they utilize avatars. And this isn't a case of jus them being too big for the physical universe. They are also outright stated that their sheer size their encompasses parallel worlds. TL;DR, the 11-D statement doesn't necessarily contradict higher interpretations, and them dwarving universes via their sheer size is too big (heh) of a plot point too handwave away. Both Alternity and Hytherion related characters scale to 1-B (18-D to 22-D).
Cloud World downgrades because my reading comprehension is in the gutter
Cloud World is currently stated Low 1-C under presumption it's what's responsible for holding the multiverse together. Spoilers! It's not, it's just SARA.
The misinterpretation comes from this one mainly:
While it does seem Cloud World is the thing that keeps the multiverse afloat, it's actually SARA who is doing it, especially when you take the other context into account like them specifically supplying energy to SARA and not the Cloud World itself.
Hell, it's later on made abundantly clear that without SARA, Cloud World would just eventually collapse.
And it's all further backed by what happens in the later chapters when SARA is removed, Cloud World begins to collapse. All the scans given in the page are moreso feats for SARA rather than Cloud World itself. TL;DR, Cloud World is simply a "hub" for SARA to operate and not what's truly responsible of keeping the multiverse in check, and as such, should simply be treated like any other standard TF universe.
This should downgrade Optimus and Megatron's Cloud World shaking feat to simply be 4-A, the standard calc we use for universe shaking. How is this universe shaking and not just say, planet shaking? Because as with all the scans placed in the Cloud World section, Cloud World is often used to describe their universe, and even when reality is collapsing, the term "Cloud World" is what's used to describe it. Cloud World = Universe. With that, anyone who scales to base Cloud Optimus and Megatron become 4-A.
Conclusion:
True Universe size and anyone who scales to it: 1-B (17-D to 21-D)
Multiverse size and anyone who scales to it: 1-B (18-D to 22-D)
Cloud World is simply treated to operate the same as any other universe in the TF cosmology.
Base CLOUD Optimus and Megatron becomes 4-A.
Universe size revisions
So currently, the Transformers multiverse is currently placed at 1-B for having 17 to 21 dimensions. Now there's isn't a problem with the tier rating itself. All the higher dimensions are still legitimate. So what's the problems I'm covering here? Because what's actually being described as 17 dimensions are actually universes and not the multiverse itself.
First, looking at the famous AVP quote, he's describing the differences in individual universes and the differences the ones in TF's cosmology and the ones within the omniverse.
This again, can be found in the scan from ROTF novel that is currently being used, where Sam Witwicky in his argument with his science professor is arguing in relation to the universe and it's mechanism, and doesn't exactly make a mention to anything related to the multiverse.
With this being said, the true scale of a standard universe within the Transformers multiverse is 1-B (17-D to 21-D), and that itself should upgrade the Transformers multiverse timelines from Low 1-C to slightly higher into 1-B (18-D to 22-D)
Now begs the full question, who scales to this?
Scaling revisions
Anyone who fully scales to the being able to full destroy the Transformers multiverse should be fine. This includes:
Only things that change is they now scale to 18-D to 22-D.
Now let's get to the universe busters. This is moreso to hold them under scrutiny and moreso to see if the feats they're involved truly do cause the universe's higher dimensions to be destroyed or only a specific portion for it.
- Nova Prime: He isn't universal to begin with but I wanna get him out of the way. Absolutely not. We already know the dead universe is decaying and getting smaller, no reason to assume he has any control over any higher dimensions.
- Regenesis Shockwave: I'm not entirely sure here. For the most part, Shockwave's regenesis is constantly mentioned to have collapsed "space and time" (All related scan on his profile), nor does he really mention anything related to higher dimensions, which would imply the range of his regenesis schemes to be 4-D/Low 2-C. However, Shockwave also makes a point that the regenesis plan involves turning everything into a power source for Cybertron, leaving the universe to have never "been" to begin with. Which does imply that the entirety of the universes' structure was indeed affected. It'd be wilder to assume that only 4 of its lower dimensions had been annihilated while the other higher ones had somehow just been left unaffected. As such, I feel I propose to give Shockwave a "Low 2-C, possibly 1-B". I don't mind giving him straight up 1-B, but I'll let others decide that.
- D-Void: I think outright 1-B is fine. The D-Void's entire plan involves both merging an entirely separate reality from it with the universe it comes from. Furthermore, the D-Void is described to be "Extra-Dimensional", which supports the idea that the D-Void would indeed be capable of affecting higher dimensions.
- IDW Unicron: Probably.... no. Unlike with Shockwave, Unicron's own universe destroying feat isn't given all that much context beyond that we know he eventually destroy both everything and eventually just "time" itself, and without further context of the extent of Unicron's destruction, this would mostly just cap Unicron's feat to 4-D ranges.
- Terminus Blade: Straight up 1-B for reasoning the same as the D-Void.
- Alternity/Hytherion related characters: Ok this is probably one of the sketchier ones. However, I do believe that they can be scaled to 1-B. Firstly, we currently use the justification that the Alternity are High 1-C with them being able to transcend to the 11th dimension. However, Ichikawa does make a point in the same tweet that the 11th dimension isn't necessarily their limit and they may have evolved even higher up. Furthermore, it's a massive narrative point that the Alternity are literally too massive to enter universes, and it becomes the entire point they utilize avatars. And this isn't a case of jus them being too big for the physical universe. They are also outright stated that their sheer size their encompasses parallel worlds. TL;DR, the 11-D statement doesn't necessarily contradict higher interpretations, and them dwarving universes via their sheer size is too big (heh) of a plot point too handwave away. Both Alternity and Hytherion related characters scale to 1-B (18-D to 22-D).
Cloud World downgrades because my reading comprehension is in the gutter
Cloud World is currently stated Low 1-C under presumption it's what's responsible for holding the multiverse together. Spoilers! It's not, it's just SARA.
The misinterpretation comes from this one mainly:
While it does seem Cloud World is the thing that keeps the multiverse afloat, it's actually SARA who is doing it, especially when you take the other context into account like them specifically supplying energy to SARA and not the Cloud World itself.
Hell, it's later on made abundantly clear that without SARA, Cloud World would just eventually collapse.
And it's all further backed by what happens in the later chapters when SARA is removed, Cloud World begins to collapse. All the scans given in the page are moreso feats for SARA rather than Cloud World itself. TL;DR, Cloud World is simply a "hub" for SARA to operate and not what's truly responsible of keeping the multiverse in check, and as such, should simply be treated like any other standard TF universe.
This should downgrade Optimus and Megatron's Cloud World shaking feat to simply be 4-A, the standard calc we use for universe shaking. How is this universe shaking and not just say, planet shaking? Because as with all the scans placed in the Cloud World section, Cloud World is often used to describe their universe, and even when reality is collapsing, the term "Cloud World" is what's used to describe it. Cloud World = Universe. With that, anyone who scales to base Cloud Optimus and Megatron become 4-A.
Conclusion:
True Universe size and anyone who scales to it: 1-B (17-D to 21-D)
Multiverse size and anyone who scales to it: 1-B (18-D to 22-D)
Cloud World is simply treated to operate the same as any other universe in the TF cosmology.
Base CLOUD Optimus and Megatron becomes 4-A.
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