Champion of Midgard: The Thor Odinson MegaCRT

[ObberGobb]

I don't think that who scales to Thor should be decided here. Right now, this is only about Thor's profile getting revamped/upgraded. I brought up Nyx because that is directly relevant to the purpose of the thread. Scaling off of her makes All-Father Thor High 1-A in the proposal, and people earlier brought up issues with that.

Now after this thread there will be ramifications. For one, there will have to be a feat gathering thread for the new Herald Tier. But the central topic of this thread can be handled.

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

I don't think that who scales to Thor should be decided here. Right now, this is only about Thor's profile getting revamped/upgraded. I brought up Nyx because that is directly relevant to the purpose of the thread. Scaling off of her makes All-Father Thor High 1-A in the proposal, and people earlier brought up issues with that.

Now after this thread there will be ramifications. For one, there will have to be a feat gathering thread for the new Herald Tier. But the central topic of this thread can be handled.

Yes please haha. If we keep spiraling off every tangent that's related to Thor scaling then the thread will never be concluded and we'll never get anything done

 

[The_Impress]

I certainly didn't intend for this to become a verse wide thing. I'd much prefer for the directly relevant Thor stuff to be addressed and applied before revising the tiers of half the profiles.

Sure, but for clarity you do understand nothing will get applied in the aftermath of this thread presently, and it would require multiple threads of just scaling discussions? Like this is borderline an year-long revision lol

Right now let's just try to narrow down to feats that are even usable.

 

[ObberGobb]

Sure, but for clarity you do understand nothing will get applied in the aftermath of this thread presently, and it would require multiple threads of just scaling discussions?

Why do you think it would require multiple threads to apply the proposed Thor changes?

 

[The_Impress]

Ugh fine, so out of the feats presented, the following are the only feats done without some form of roundabout scaling where the character is their current tier for scaling to Thor:

Unworthy Thor:​

This is alt. universe bullshit.

Nothing states this is the length of a solar system, unless there is some wild ass out-of-comic statement you're using.

They literally say it's not entirely their work. Quentine Quire gets Phoenix to quit, and except the Mother Storm nothing really seems to harm her.

This is borderline a range feat tbh

Also genuine question, why are we acting like he has full physical scaling to his weather manip?

God of Hammers Thor​

I will note ******* everyone fights Robbie Reyes here and survives, and Juggernaut was defeated by a specific hammer and wasn't taking the fight all that seriously.

Also there are antifeats here

Also probably address these.

 

[The_Impress]

Why do you think it would require multiple threads to apply the proposed Thor changes?

Because no sane supporter would change a singular file's feats when said file is scaled to 300 dudes or something and fundamentally breaks their scaling? Especially when said singular file is slated to use feats from characters of those 300 files?

Like you probably know how weirdly hyper-reliant that one random ass revision from back in the day has made tiers above 5-B on Thor. It's not smart, but then again that is one of the worst applied revisions on the wiki (which funniy enough was also from the same OP)

 

[ObberGobb]

Because no sane supporter would change a singular file's feats when said file is scaled to 300 dudes or something and fundamentally breaks their scaling? Especially when said singular file is slated to use feats from characters of those 300 files?

Like you probably know how weirdly hyper-reliant that one random ass revision from back in the day has made tiers above 5-B on Thor. It's not smart, but then again that is one of the worst applied revisions on the wiki (which funniy enough was also from the same OP)

Fair enough. If Thor is going to be separated from Heralds as this thread proposes, then a Herald feat-gathering thread will be needed to find Herald feats NOT from Thor. Do you think that this thread should be put on hold until Heralds are sorted out?

 

[The_Impress]

Prolly. I'm not even particularly sold on nulling Herald scaling tbh, alot of the proposed feats are reliant on God scaling which recursively have prominent Herald scaling.

 

[ObberGobb]

Prolly. I'm not even particularly sold on nulling Herald scaling tbh, alot of the proposed feats are reliant on God scaling which recursively have prominent Herald scaling.

What do you think should be done about Herald/God scaling? And could you clarify what you mean about God scaling recursively having Herald scaling?

 

[The_Impress]

That's going off topic, right now let's just verify the feats first.

Of the feats I've listed, I did give comments on a few but I haven't accepted any of them, or have had the opportunity to check, so staff/supporter help is appreciated.

I think we can disregard High 8-C and lower for now.

Also I'd recommend probably don't use feats from the 70s or earlier, this isn't a rigid rule but before handbooks Marvel was looser with their powerscaling.

 

[ObberGobb]

Ok

 

[ObberGobb]

Also I'd recommend probably don't use feats from the 70s or earlier, this isn't a rigid rule but before handbooks Marvel was looser with their powerscaling.

I think we should generally avoid 60s feats, but by the Bronze Age in the 70s I think enough of the Marvel "mythos" had established itself that it is more reliable than the 60s. Of course, it must be established that feats from the 70s are consistent with stuff that happens in decades following.

I will take a closer look at the feats tomorrow. Looking through them, there are a few I have a problem with. Generally, I think that any fest that basically amounts to "not being one-shot by X character" or "staggering Y character" should not be used at all.

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

Because no sane supporter would change a singular file's feats when said file is scaled to 300 dudes or something and fundamentally breaks their scaling? Especially when said singular file is slated to use feats from characters of those 300 files?

Like you probably know how weirdly hyper-reliant that one random ass revision from back in the day has made tiers above 5-B on Thor. It's not smart, but then again that is one of the worst applied revisions on the wiki (which funniy enough was also from the same OP)

What revision was that?

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

If we're going to redo Herald scaling that should also probably be its own thing. This thread really isn't proposing any radical rescaling--for base Thor, the one that a few people scale to, we'd basically just be removing the 3-C because it's not really based on anything. He already has up to Tier 1 in base and that shouldn't change.

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

@Antvasima : Here's a short summary of the proposed changes as requested.

1. That base Thor's 3-C key be removed and more justifications added to his current stats (justifications are in the post)
2. That base Thor be split into Unworthy and Worthy keys
3. All-Father Thor be split into Incomplete All-Father and Complete All-Father (the "possibly High 1-A at peak" for Complete All-Father can wait until somebody looks more into Nyx)
4. Updated Thor's intelligence section

 

[The_Impress]

Also probably address these.

sry but important before i proceed

 

[The_Impress]

What revision was that?

Marvel Comics - Thor Shaking the Realms of the World Tree

This is from the new Avengers 1,000,000 B.C. and mentions a child Thor potential supporting feat. At 14:10 it states that every time the newborn Thor cried, he created "storms that shook the World Tree and every realm perched among its branches." Could this be added to his profile as a...

vsbattles.com

Thread seemingly got hijacked and never closed so it led to the worst ratings known to mankind being accepted (Current Thor profie)

 

[Entity]

(the "possibly High 1-A at peak" for Complete All-Father can wait until somebody looks more into Nyx)

so just 1-A+ for scaling to Elder Gods and Multi-Eternity?

 

[Antvasima]

@Antvasima : Here's a short summary of the proposed changes as requested.

1. That base Thor's 3-C key be removed and more justifications added to his current stats (justifications are in the post)
2. That base Thor be split into Unworthy and Worthy keys
3. All-Father Thor be split into Incomplete All-Father and Complete All-Father (the "possibly High 1-A at peak" for Complete All-Father can wait until somebody looks more into Nyx)
4. Updated Thor's intelligence section

What do you think that we should do here, Impress?

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

For Unworthy Thor, I don't think his high-end lightning shouldn't downscale from the universal Phoenix. Sure, he wasn't doing it by himself, but his and Jane's combined storms were tearing the Phoenix apart. Thor said this wasn't "entirely" their work, not that they weren't affecting it at all.

The Reigning was a timeline that did actually occur. The only reason it was reversed was because Thor himself undid it.

The lightning blast was comparable in length to the Collector's spaceship, which was stated earlier in the issue to be the size of a small solar system.

If affecting Low 1-A/1-A structures in their entirety is only a range feat, that's a problem with the wiki, not the feat.

Thor definitely scales to his own weather manipulation and storm creation. He's tanked his own lightning before and there is not a consistent difference in AP between his storms and his physicals when fighting high-tier opponents.

For God of Hammers Thor, the feats/scaling you highlighted don't look like they're even being used in the OP as justifications. At any rate Gorr scaling needs to be updated because the same Necrosword he used one-shot a Celestial when wielded by Knull, and Gorr also killed an Elder God in the original God of Thunder run. Peak Unworthy, Worthy, and Old King Thor all scale to Gorr independent of any other Thor mythos stuff.

 

[ObberGobb]

At any rate Gorr scaling needs to be updated because the same Necrosword he used one-shot a Celestial when wielded by Knull, and Gorr also killed an Elder God in the original God of Thunder run. Peak Unworthy, Worthy, and Old King Thor all scale to Gorr independent of any other Thor mythos stuff.

The Necrosword varies, so Gorr wouldn't necessarily scale to feats performed by Knull with it. Also, I could be wrong, but iirc the Elder God he killed was an infant.

 

[JPTheGamer]

What's the vote?

 

[Entity]

an Elder God

one of those created by the Demiurge?

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

What's the vote?

No idea unfortunately

 

[The_Impress]

Thor definitely scales to his own weather manipulation and storm creation. He's tanked his own lightning before and there is not a consistent difference in AP between his storms and his physicals when fighting high-tier opponents.

Are you familiar with the concept of electricity resists and Environmental Destruction?

Also if the argument is reliant on "They look the same" it's kinda faulty lol. Like give me a statement that says that Thor scales to his storm generation physically or it's just vibes-based equalizing.

For Unworthy Thor, I don't think his high-end lightning shouldn't downscale from the universal Phoenix. Sure, he wasn't doing it by himself, but his and Jane's combined storms were tearing the Phoenix apart. Thor said this wasn't "entirely" their work, not that they weren't affecting it at all.

So right now a single page worth of contribution is getting showcased as consistent when Jane Foster did most of the work and it didn't even notably harm Phoenix once you consider she was already surrendering to Quire at that point?

The lightning blast was comparable in length to the Collector's spaceship, which was stated earlier in the issue to be the size of a small solar system.

And you didn't consider to add it as context in your scan? Give me the scan for it now.

The Reigning was a timeline that did actually occur. The only reason it was reversed was because Thor himself undid it.

Kang would still have High 1-A range if we considered alt timelines. We don't. Consistently. They're as relevant as a What If cross-scale because they're not subject to editorial scrutiny to the same extent.

If affecting Low 1-A/1-A structures in their entirety is only a range feat, that's a problem with the wiki, not the feat.

Dude I am going to be blunt, if we are ever going to yes 1-A weather hax off of a single dialogue box in some ******* comic and use it as a core scaling justification I think that every stereotype people have about powerscalers being too tier-brained is correct.

Beyond this, flowery language. I am not going to yes Thor as a baby being able to clear every single Avenger lol.

For God of Hammers Thor, the feats/scaling you highlighted don't look like they're even being used in the OP as justifications

...They're literally in your blog? If you don't use them doesn't mean they don't exist lol.

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

Are all energy-based attacks with high range, or shockwaves, Environmental Destruction? Genuine question about the wiki standards. I suppose we could say "up to ____ with Environmental Destruction" if that's how the wiki decides to interpret things.

We can remove the universal Phoenix scaling if you're that intent on it. I definitely still think that two people tearing even a distracted Phoenix Force apart is notable, but there's not anything I can do about it if you don't.

Here's the solar system scan.

Fair enough about the alt-timeline.

Thor affecting the Nine Realms in their entirety isn't a one-off. It is for baby Thor, sure. We can remove the feat from Unworthy Thor's key if you're dead-set against it, since I believe staff votes are the only thing that really matters here.

Would you count those as addressed?