Finally getting around to this
This reads less mind and more memory to me, given the scan
itself pointing out how the spiritual body a)records and keeps thoughts captive and b)is a virtual memory, in addition to the fact that it doesn't itself generate thoughts
Ig
this should help. Clayman's mind control won't work on Shion because she can "think" with a deeper aspects.
This reads as mind to me (though still fundamental), and I don't see what exactly implies the name of the substance here is aether, rather than the technique being named such. In actuality, what seems to compose the astral body are magicules, and its being interfered with, as shown in the scans, is what gets rid of the astral body
I'm taking Magicules = Aether. The knight's technique purifies Magicules and is called Aether, so I was under the idea that Magicules = Aether. Astral body would thus be the same.
Something I will ask, though, is how all this applies to humans? Seeing as basically every scan here applies to monsters, and the scans themselves point out how their composition is generally made of/founded by magicules to a far more obscene degree than humans, so I'm wondering what exactly the Astral Body of Humanity is made of, though it's entirely plausible such a topic isn't touched on, but it can't exactly be magicules considering
this scan
Yeah, no idea here as it was never elaborated. This is why Astral Body part should only apply to humans (though in the end the moment someone becomes an SLF or demi slf, they already
transcend humanity and no longer are humans, so... Humans' astral body not explained causes zero problems)
This is distinctively wrong, though
Assuming you're referring to "and soul" part since you bolded it.
"Separate" here means you can destroy it without at all harming or reaching the Soul. Take it as a box inside a box inside a box, and the astral body would be the middle one, the inner one being the soul and the outer one being the Spiritual body. That kind of separation.
Considering the previous CRT I thought you would have mentioned the Thought Body being an alt name for the soul here
Ah, yeah I should. I forgot to add it since it was so minor lol
Imma edit it later when I'm on PC
Please don't use that as a scan for magicules being conceptual, please, I beg. This isn't conceptual as in universal, this is conceptual as in idea/blueprint/thought/whatever else.
Etto, "blueprint" technically is also Conceptual, in a way, though?
And I didn't really mean Universal Concepts here. Just local but still conceptual.
Huh, did just notice
this scan (the second one) either says or implies factors either are or are made up of information particles, neat, do with that what you will
Eh, info particles make up.... Everything. Soul, body, mind, factors, etc., so that was already a thing.
It's like how rocks and apples are both made of atoms xd
Still disagree with using
this scan as anything related to factors btw,
the veldora scans seem to distinctly be tied to the ego seeing the mention of wavelength, and I already stated my gripes with using the magic aura for factor stuff
Alr
I'm pretty sure there was a scan about factors being mentioned in this context as well, but it seems I forgot to add it. Will find it later
Anyways, to help with independence arguments, you can use
this scan, wherein everything below the soul is erased by the removal of factors but the soul is just fine
Sure
I'm still of the opinion that spirits are in one way or another pure souls, though, and that everything below it is in effect an avatar (tempted to strikethrough this)
Xd
Sadly the novel establishes them having an astral body, but I suppose the avatar part could work.
I get why you had to do it, but also seeing the same scan twice as the opening was funny
Lol
This should be a link to a scan of the underworld being made of info, not to a verse page
That requires an explanation rather than a single scan. But I'll see what I can do. Will link a gallery copypasting that explaination from the cosmology page, I suppose.
Seems less fictional and more mental
They are indeed inside Rimuru's mind/imaginary, but isn't something in your mind fictional from your perspective?
I mean, yes, but I dislike this wording, read to me like a moment that the particles were derived from Temporal Elements for a moment
Will edit it
I do not think one needs to provide a citation on photons being massless
As much as I wanna absolutely agree to this, sadly many people in an old thread I participated in yapped about me requiring to prove those photons are massless, even though photons are GENERALLY massless...
I would genuinely hope one would not need a citation on what the self is, considering we are all living beings with self-awareness
^
There are sometimes people that would need this as well
Lol
Would you not use this scan as a scan for will existing as a component of the Ego, seeing as it doesn't even mention the thing (and implies it only exists on the level of the soul, but that's potentially due to lack of knowledge)
Probably the latter of what you said in the braces, but we generally know Will = Ego.
Yeah there is the fact that Rimuru doesn't know the difference between soul and the contents inside them, but "Will" or "Ego" is generally a more simpler thing than the heart core, and wouldn't require him to know the laws of the world to figure it out.
Though honestly reading through this I'm, deeply confused and concerned
I gave a plain version because I'm not fighting the citations for a moment
But first of all, none of these scans require the existence of will here, in fact most of the scans here seem to come from before the characters properly knew about the existence of the aspects beyond the existence of the soul, and the usages of will here while not figurative, surely aren't as literal as one would want for will to be a part of the ego
The one with [57] reference is from Veldora, who should know this tbh
When he and Great sage combined their processing power, they could detect infons, so it's a reasonable assumption.
The one with [2] as reference is from Volume 13, at which point Raphael had analyzed the complete structure of the soul (in fact, the heart core, ego and soul definition scan is just a few pages before this scan/page in the novel).
The one with [58] reference is from Diablo, who already knows all of it since Primordial demons, + demons generally know far more about the soul, + among the top 10 most intelligent characters in the series.
The last one with [13] reference is from V6, so it's after the end of V5 where Rimuru has at least figured out to
distinguish between Heart and soul on a basic lvl
The first scan implies, to a degree, that Veldora actually lacks a will, seeing as Raphael can't use him as a source and has to instead use demons, who are incarnations of desire (which itself has implications),
Rather than lacking a will entirely, it's more so that his desire to live (to struggle to live) is weak, since true dragons are immortal and can simply revive. I mean, this was why he was ranting on how he'd always just revive after death in Volume 1.
and if Raphael was actually using them for their will, this should outright erase them beyond any ability of their own to come back, which seems discongruent a later scan that points out that the demons themselves were happy to do such, which considering they apparently had enough will to live, seems mildly wack that they would perma kill themselves
They did get erased, actually. They were just satisfied that they could be of use to their Lord (Rimuru). It's also implied that this act of infusing their desire with them people's is what resulted in the latter getting the skill Perfect memory, which is intrinsic to SLFs and by extension demons.
The third and fourth are the weakest pieces of evidence here and speak to actions that could be reduced to physical explanation rather than metaphysical foundation, unless there is context missing.
I'll try to look for scans to replace these.
As it is Ego currently just seems like a pure Cogitio Ergo Sum and not much to do with willpower, or said willpower is just one and the same with that Cogitio
Correct
Well, no, this doesn't read like that at all, it reads like skills are particularizations of the laws that allow one who has them to harness them for whatever use, not that they or the skills themselves are the source of the law
They aren't source of Law, they are the law itself.
Well, a skill has two parts, the Law itself, and the particular manifested in an individual.
I mean, skills are
part of the world law (the collection of all laws). That implies they are a law in and of itself.
This reads contradictory to the explanation given about Disintegration (in that it destroys skills), though that seems to just be a contradiction in verse than just out of verse
Disintegration destroys the info part, the heart core. The law part still remains.
A common alternate analogy is how when a Soul disperses into nothing, that is it returning to the Cycle of Reincarnation, it isn't "truly" erased in every sense of the world. (Similar to how erasing a rock doesn't erase the potential for that lock to exist in the concept of rocks).
Well I disagree for my aforementioned reasons (skills seem to be particulars of the attributes and allow one to manipulate such, but are not these things in of themselves)
^
Also disagree, it does not read to be above the heart core but instead parallel to the heart core, skills are engraved onto such but they the reason why they survive has less to do with them being more fundamental, but them simply not being dependent on it, and instead, as I said, parallel, they may allow one to act in ways that mimic such a relationship, but to me it'd be like saying someone's clone body in another universe is more fundamental than their body in the main universe just cause the former allows them to recreate the latter if it dies.
I think you're confusing the law part and the info part as the same thing from what I understand. The info part of the skill IS contained within the heart core.
