sukuna171
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It was Kouryu who talked about the near-death experience, and he admitted that most of what he said was nonsense meant to annoy and belittle UEG.
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Adding some abilities (Instant Death)
- Thread starter Azertyhuuh
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I told you this is a large topic and it will be controversial, and it would be better to move it to the staff section.
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There is proof that the objects The End contains are merely an imitation or shadow of its true self and that The End will still exist even if all the participating objects are erased. This is very CM 1 
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NOTHING has even reached controversial yet or even looks out of order for those participating, how is making this a staff thread even needed...?
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it wouldn't
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There is no reason to make it staff thread just because everyone disagrees with you
Debated threads are usual, read rules about controversial abilities.
Does bro know
Complete headcanon. Not to mention no scans for this posted which is already red flag from you, transcending them is merely your interpretation.
Accepted scans never tell this, so in nowhere you can get "End is beyond distinction between existence and nonexistence" to get NEP 2. In fact for same reason you didn't even get Void Manipulation for him. So no weird logic here.
I will just post for staff what are actually scans
Being End of everything isn't merely transcending it. In fact he is one of the neccesarily laws of world
Idk how you wrote him as transcending everything, I just noticed how profile justifications became so bad.
"Nothing beyond = Transcendant"
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There is no reason to make it staff thread just because everyone disagrees with you
Debated threads are usual, read rules about controversial abilities.
Does bro know
Complete headcanon. Not to mention no scans for this posted which is already red flag from you, transcending them is merely your interpretation.
Accepted scans never tell this, so in nowhere you can get "End is beyond distinction between existence and nonexistence" to get NEP 2. In fact for same reason you didn't even get Void Manipulation for him. So no weird logic here.
I will just post for staff what are actually scans
Being End of everything isn't merely transcending it. In fact he is one of the neccesarily laws of world
Idk how you wrote him as transcending everything, I just noticed how profile justifications became so bad.
"Nothing beyond = Transcendant"
Funny.
First, his true form already has Void Manipulation in his profile.
You didn’t even understand the basis of the argument, yet you’re replying while all these scans you posted are already in the thread lol.
Information is what composes and defines the entire world, and can be regarded as the world itself as I explained and as has already been accepted and established:
Information Manipulation (Type 2), Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2), Information Analysis & Reality Warping (Should capable of accessing the higher layer of information of the world.[10] Can manipulate the world's core, a condensation of information that defines the world and influences it.[11] By manipulating the world core, reality also will be impacted from it. Those with the authority of god[11] can freely manipulate the world, which is a conceptual structure.[12] Gods are capable of manipulating the underlying building blocks of reality.[13] Can manipulate the information that defines an individual's existence[3])
The world itself contains everything without exception, as I already demonstrated and supported with evidence, and this is stated by the Ultimate God.
Since information composes and defines the entire world and can be regarded as the world itself, and the world itself contains the Sea of Darkness—which is a void possessing NEP—then information is what composes both existence and nonexistence.
And since his true form is the end of everything and the end of the entire world and all that it contains, being the final destination of all fates and the only thing that remains in the end, and it defines and determines the end of all things, and its darkness is a void of nothingness representing the end where nothing exists and nothing is allowed to exist, then the “End” lies outside the existence/nonexistence dichotomy. This is because information defines existence and nonexistence within the world, while the End represents the termination of the entire system itself, where nothing remains and nothing exists at all.
Since the End lacks information, as shown in his profile, its nature is completely outside the existence/nonexistence dichotomy because it lacks the informational structure that defines both existence and nonexistence. It is literally the end of information itself and therefore the end of everything, where nothing remains.
This is the basis of the argument. It has nothing to do with transcendence or the things you’re talking about. If you’re done, we can now wait for the staff’s opinion.
Mbpoops
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Just letting you know phoneks doesnt count since they are OCBW staff
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Haha what, what do you mean? He’s a staff member, he has a staff badge. This is the first time I’ve heard about this. What do you mean by OCBW staff? We are on VSBW—I thought the blue and green badges were just for decoration lol. First time hearing about this.
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He's staff for a different wiki
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I searched for OCBW and nothing showed up.
Eikichi_Sensei
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Go to the home page and scroll down, you'll see 2 other wikis on this site. Neither one of their admins/mods have any authority on CRT's from what I can recall.
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Could you elaborate?
Also, I'm not staff so don't count me on your OP. I just give thoughts on random things I see in the CRT section sometimes.
Btw BDE Type 1 for it seems fine since it's nothingness is pretty explicitly lacking in spatio-temporal existence given that UEG trying to "erase space and time" (or whatever it said) was redundant due it just being nothingness and such. She even says verbatim that there is no point in trying to destroy something that doesn't exist.
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I would, but I don't have the volume saved in my drive to find out (for some reason, I don't remember deleting it), so I don't have the scans on me necessary, but @Zanesucksatlife is going over that in a bit.
Zanesucksatlife
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Here for elaboration of the scans
And on that note: now that I further read and even re-read to make sure when im seeing.
BDE1 still doesn't make sense to me and to clarify, it doesn't read as what it says.
Acasuality 5 can't be added either:
What we know as
Type 5 Characters with this type of Acausality are completely independent of cause and effect, existing outside causality. Characters of this nature require evidence of being unable to be changed by any effect that relies on a system of causality, meaning that interacting with them normally is impossible.
↑↑↑
TEXT
Reposting this again.
The fact that she got swallowed up is a disqualifier. If she was beyond/transcended quality to where it can't affect her then she shouldn't have been affected.
BDE1 you need more evidence for, Aca5 is immediately disqualified and is just seen as greater type 4
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so literally no one agrees, what's next lol
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You can only count those with blue badge with the "VS Battles" on it. Of course excluding Content Mods, Translator Mods and Image Helper.
If they have Jokes Battles badge (Purple) or FC/OC Battles (Green similar to Administrator), you can't count their vote as a staff vote, as they're basically not a VS Battles Wiki staffs, which is the Blue one. You can only count their votes just like a normal members, a.k.a like a blue name dudes.
To put it in funny way:
Blue + Green = Yes
Blue + Red = Yes
Green + Green = No
Purple + Green/Red = No
So from now, you know it.
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Get staff opinions, usually.
Mbpoops
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the bolded part kills type 5 acausality. if you're arguing the realm itself has type 5 acausality thent he fact it can "melt things and disolve them into darkness" means that it does things and doing things is cause and effect
cause - the realm melt or disolves things
effect - the thing is disolved
so yea disagree with type 5 aca everything else idc
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disagree fra
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By the way, you haven't even proven it is a concept in the first place
The OP just discusses independence, but The End wasn't accepted as a conceptual being at all, just Law
So you have to prove him being a Type 2 Concept first
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so from what am understaing, The end literally is only classifed as a law, it isnt like for example like eternity or oblivion from marvel. true form hasnt beed adress as a conceptual entity to begin with right?
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Now that I have time let's do it, FYI, i am just replying to the op and haven't seen any other post.
1. Type 5 Acausality
This is arguably the weakest part of the argument. As I understand it, the reasoning is:
What the scans show is
Type 5 Acausality generally requires evidence that something exists fundamentally outside all causal relations, beyond cause and effect altogether and not subject to causal determination in any form. The thread never demonstrates anything of that magnitude. At most, it shows that the Sea of Darkness is a void where conventional abilities no longer function.
Those are not the same thing.
Simply establishing that a realm is empty or devoid of conventional structures does not prove that causality is absent. "Nothingness" and "acausality" are not interchangeable concepts.
2. BDE Type 1
I don't partake in nep related stuff, so I'll leave it for other staff.
Anyways i disagree with Acausality type 5 and BDE 1.
1. Type 5 Acausality
This is arguably the weakest part of the argument. As I understand it, the reasoning is:
- UEG enters the Sea of Darkness.
- The Sea of Darkness lacks space, time, dimensions, universes, etc.
- Her abilities cease functioning.
- Therefore, the Sea of Darkness transcends causality and qualifies for Type 5 Acausality.
What the scans show is
- UEG becomes trapped.
- Teleportation fails.
- Dimensional travel fails.
- Time-related abilities cannot be used.
- She gradually dissolves.
Type 5 Acausality generally requires evidence that something exists fundamentally outside all causal relations, beyond cause and effect altogether and not subject to causal determination in any form. The thread never demonstrates anything of that magnitude. At most, it shows that the Sea of Darkness is a void where conventional abilities no longer function.
Those are not the same thing.
- A lack of spacetime does not automatically imply a lack of causality.
- The inability to travel does not imply a lack of causality.
- Powers failing to function does not imply transcendence of causality.
Simply establishing that a realm is empty or devoid of conventional structures does not prove that causality is absent. "Nothingness" and "acausality" are not interchangeable concepts.
2. BDE Type 1
It was Author's Q&A you can't use it for BDE, it will only give you 4th wall breaking.
I don't partake in nep related stuff, so I'll leave it for other staff.
Anyways i disagree with Acausality type 5 and BDE 1.
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Should be realistically removed since AE and NEP doesn't come together
What I meant is NEP Erasure, mb. I know he has Void Manipulation, but for manipulating void. Different thing
My points are relevant because
And before you go "You strawmaned me, without understanding argument" while missing my point completely, let me explain.
Information or whatever defining existence and nonexistence obviously common thing in fiction.
In your basis you have headcanon about information defining nonexistence since it is "Core of the world" Few problems here chief
1. No proof for it except this. Not really good thing to prove how information defines world tbf, you need to have self-evident example how this defines also nonexistence
2. Your scan doesn't really show "End exists outside of all of those things", End is part of world, not outside of it. So if we say NEP True Form, we can js assume "Sea of Darkness is part of him" not like "He can erase NEP" <- Something never proven btw, and never even accepted. This also goes for "Existence outside of Sea of Darkness" so when you claim it, prove it without vague statements "world = darkness, yogiri beyond it"
3. Only relevant part prob this:
But taken out of context, since lemme present you whole scan:
Scan obviously refers very different thing, It is explaining how Ultimate Ensemble World is often called "world" sometimes. Already written in cosmology page
So it doesn't prove how terminology of world = everything, nor explains how information is essentially defines whole world including nonexistence. Unless you want to create massive contradictions like one world = another world js because they are called worlds.
Even you go by chapters your scan comes from Instant Death Volume 15 Chapter Something Unnecessary and information scan from Volume 9 Chapter 10 . And you are assuming these two correlated, not creating only non sequitur but association fallacy. idk how this is good terminology example.
Btw, please don't even bother to reply if your arguments don't go beyond "ummmm Yogiri can end everything", "So you are denying author's words", it adds nothing to conversation, you can js wait staff at this point. I won't touch Ac5, BDE 1 cuz others already butchered it
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They often do though? Concept NEP doesn't prevent Law AE
And if the verse defines it very explicitly they can even intersect (deffo not the case here though)
Astral_Trinity439
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Following. I'll give my input later
Phoenks is not a vsbw staff, he's affiliated with FC/OC battles, so he's not a vsbw admin. His vote doesn't count as a staff vote
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Also, if it weren't clear, I disagree with this CRT.
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why is phoneks on agree he isnt staff
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Well, you didn't give your opinion on possessing the true form of BDE1, even though you know that it lacks spacetime and everything else, because everything has already ended there and nothing remains, as is clearly explained, UEG tried to search for universes, worlds, dimensions, or to travel through time or dimensions or teleport, but that was useless because there is nothing at all. It's not that the abilities don't work, but rather that there is no place, no time, or anything else, as the text explains.
After that, she tries to destroy spacetime, the higher universes, the worlds, and the dimensions, including the darkness, but that is also useless because these things do not exist anymore — they have ended. So how can you destroy things that don't exist in the first place, as the text clearly shows?
His darkness completely lacks spacetime and everything else entirely, because everything has ended here, and it doesn't even allow the existence of anything here. This is the core of the argument for possessing BDE1
As for destroying BDE1, you are completely wrong in what you said.
The Mysterious Space is a space within the Final Set that contains everything without exception, as the Absolute God himself stated.
The Mysterious Space is a space that exists outside of all time and space, and it is called the Question Corner. Also, the author has absolutely nothing to do with what happens here. These are not the author's questions and answers as you think, and I don't know who told you this strange information.
Can you show me the author's words? Where is his question and where is his answer? What is your source for this information, and where did you get this talk from in the first place? These texts are part of the novel itself, and I don't know what the author has to do with this.
Breaking the fourth wall requires interacting with the readers or scenes where they go out into the real world and such things.
- So what does this have to do with the novel itself and the characters themselves?
- Tell me, what does the Mysterious Space, which is outside of time and space, have to do with breaking the fourth wall? What is its connection? Just tell me what its connection is.
If there is a fourth wall break, it would only be because the characters are talking to the readers, and that is something I can understand. However, can you explain to me what the connection is between this and the Mysterious Space that exists outside of spacetime? Or cosmology — it is part of the Final Set that contains everything without exception.
And also, for the last time, these are not the author's questions and answers. These are the characters themselves speaking.
- Yogiri, Tomochika, Asaka, Mokomoko
These are characters from the novel, and yes, characters can talk to the readers, and this is the only thing that could grant them a fourth wall break — by speaking to the readers. Other than that, there is no other type of fourth wall break.
Yogiri himself stated that he can kill the Mysterious Space itself, and since it is a space outside of spacetime, he would therefore possess the erasure of BDE 1. This is something Yogiri said himself.
Yogiri Takatou, Tomochika Dannoura, and Mokomoko Dannoura are characters from the novel, and they are the three main protagonists from the very beginning of the story.
You did not give your opinion regarding him being a Type 1 concept in relation to his abstract existence. He is independent from the entire world itself, since everything had already ended and absolutely nothing remained, yet he still exists while there was nothing at all, as I explained previously. Since everything ends at him, he is a concept independent from all the things he governs, because he is their end. Everything had already ended at him and nothing remained, and the novel confirmed this in more than one context ↓
You also did not give your opinion regarding Natural Type 1 Nonexistence Erasure through Information Manipulation, considering that information is what composes and defines the entire world and can itself be regarded as the world itself.
Information Manipulation (Type 2), Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2), Information Analysis & Reality Warping (Should capable of accessing the higher layer of information of the world.[10] Can manipulate the world's core, a condensation of information that defines the world and influences it.[11] By manipulating the world core, reality also will be impacted from it. Those with the authority of god[11] can freely manipulate the world, which is a conceptual structure.[12] Gods are capable of manipulating the underlying building blocks of reality.[13] Can manipulate the information that defines an individual's existence[3])
The world also contains the Sea of Darkness, which is a void possessing NEP 1. Since information is what composes everything in the world and can itself be regarded as the world itself:
Then information composes both existence and nonexistence, because both are parts of the world that contains everything without exception. It is also stated that those who can manipulate information are capable of changing anything and doing anything within the entire world. Therefore, since the Sea of Darkness is also composed of information by virtue of being part of the world, nonexistence can be erased by erasing its information or affecting it through Type 2 Information Manipulation.
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No, information is what composes the existence of the gods themselvesWell, you didn't give your opinion on possessing the true form of BDE1, even though you know that it lacks spacetime and everything else, because everything has already ended there and nothing remains, as is clearly explained, UEG tried to search for universes, worlds, dimensions, or to travel through time or dimensions or teleport, but that was useless because there is nothing at all. It's not that the abilities don't work, but rather that there is no place, no time, or anything else, as the text explains.
After that, she tries to destroy spacetime, the higher universes, the worlds, and the dimensions, including the darkness, but that is also useless because these things do not exist anymore — they have ended. So how can you destroy things that don't exist in the first place, as the text clearly shows?
His darkness completely lacks spacetime and everything else entirely, because everything has ended here, and it doesn't even allow the existence of anything here. This is the core of the argument for possessing BDE1
As for destroying BDE1, you are completely wrong in what you said.
The Mysterious Space is a space within the Final Set that contains everything without exception, as the Absolute God himself stated.
The Mysterious Space is a space that exists outside of all time and space, and it is called the Question Corner. Also, the author has absolutely nothing to do with what happens here. These are not the author's questions and answers as you think, and I don't know who told you this strange information.
Can you show me the author's words? Where is his question and where is his answer? What is your source for this information, and where did you get this talk from in the first place? These texts are part of the novel itself, and I don't know what the author has to do with this.
Breaking the fourth wall requires interacting with the readers or scenes where they go out into the real world and such things.
- So what does this have to do with the novel itself and the characters themselves?
- Tell me, what does the Mysterious Space, which is outside of time and space, have to do with breaking the fourth wall? What is its connection? Just tell me what its connection is.
If there is a fourth wall break, it would only be because the characters are talking to the readers, and that is something I can understand. However, can you explain to me what the connection is between this and the Mysterious Space that exists outside of spacetime? Or cosmology — it is part of the Final Set that contains everything without exception.
And also, for the last time, these are not the author's questions and answers. These are the characters themselves speaking.
- Yogiri, Tomochika, Asaka, Mokomoko
These are characters from the novel, and yes, characters can talk to the readers, and this is the only thing that could grant them a fourth wall break — by speaking to the readers. Other than that, there is no other type of fourth wall break.
Yogiri himself stated that he can kill the Mysterious Space itself, and since it is a space outside of spacetime, he would therefore possess the erasure of BDE 1. This is something Yogiri said himself.
Yogiri Takatou, Tomochika Dannoura, and Mokomoko Dannoura are characters from the novel, and they are the three main protagonists from the very beginning of the story.
You did not give your opinion regarding him being a Type 1 concept in relation to his abstract existence. He is independent from the entire world itself, since everything had already ended and absolutely nothing remained, yet he still exists while there was nothing at all, as I explained previously. Since everything ends at him, he is a concept independent from all the things he governs, because he is their end. Everything had already ended at him and nothing remained, and the novel confirmed this in more than one context ↓
You also did not give your opinion regarding Natural Type 1 Nonexistence Erasure through Information Manipulation, considering that information is what composes and defines the entire world and can itself be regarded as the world itself.
Information Manipulation (Type 2), Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2), Information Analysis & Reality Warping (Should capable of accessing the higher layer of information of the world.[10] Can manipulate the world's core, a condensation of information that defines the world and influences it.[11] By manipulating the world core, reality also will be impacted from it. Those with the authority of god[11] can freely manipulate the world, which is a conceptual structure.[12] Gods are capable of manipulating the underlying building blocks of reality.[13] Can manipulate the information that defines an individual's existence[3])
The world also contains the Sea of Darkness, which is a void possessing NEP 1. Since information is what composes everything in the world and can itself be regarded as the world itself:
Then information composes both existence and nonexistence, because both are parts of the world that contains everything without exception. It is also stated that those who can manipulate information are capable of changing anything and doing anything within the entire world. Therefore, since the Sea of Darkness is also composed of information by virtue of being part of the world, nonexistence can be erased by erasing its information or affecting it through Type 2 Information Manipulation.
, and the gods are the highest beings in the entire world. They transcend spacetime itself, such as UEG. As for the Absolute God, it can affect any possible world and possesses authority and power over all worlds within the Ultimate Ensemble. So yes, information composes the existence of the entire world.
Each world has its own god, and there are countless gods. There are also gods who govern the Heavenly higher universes, such as Touichirou and UEG. As for the Ultimate God, it influences and possesses power over all possible worlds. Therefore, information indeed composes the existence of the entire world.
Every being possesses its own information, so information composes everything across the entire world, not just one specific world, because that would contradict all of this. And for clarification, an individual world only governs what exists within it and has no influence or connection to another world, whereas information governs the existence of all gods that rule all possible worlds. Therefore, what you said is incorrect.
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If @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless disagrees with BDE 1 then i disagree
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He didn’t even give his opinion here.
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I don't see AC5. Not even close.
I disagree with everything except BDE type 1
I disagree with everything except BDE type 1
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But I'll help you anyway. However, I don't think it's likely to work.
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What about it being a Type 1 concept in abstract existence?
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