Madness Combat Discussion Thread: Redeemer

[Employe]

You mean with regards to melee? Well, let's review. Sweet Shot projectiles are IA because despite being smaller than non-SS projectiles you can Tac-Bar against (even homing ones) while standing in place, SSs bypass the Tac-Bar altogether even when it's full and you have nothing else preoccupying you, instead of draining it down. IIRC in PNC normal melee attacks do get dodged by the Tac-Bar as you stand in place but drain it like non-SS projectiles do, and even getting grabbed drains the Tac-Bar as opposed to bypassing it entirely. Maybe there are melee attacks that do bypass the Tac-Bar in PNC, though.

But then there's the matter of PN2 melee bypassing the Tac-Bar. Well, there is some internal consistency, since even the best reflexes imaginable can do only so much if you're being swarmed or let someone get right up to you, like how Neo from The Matrix can dodge bullets all day even with his feet rooted but in melee sometimes has to stop standing in place and/or block instead of dodging while standing in place if he's got enough thrown at him all at once. And how you have to dash/dive with good timing (since you're still being tracked) to dodge Sweet Shots instead of Tac-Bar dodging it with your feet rooted in place in both PNC & PN2. Yet PN2 being more balanced than the more OP PNC one is hard to parse in diagetic terms.

I would write off one or the other as game mechanics (maybe not on the whole but at least in categories) instead of giving every PN2 melee attacker (including zombies!) Info Analysis; even AAWH Grunts having IA via Sweet Shots in PNC makes more sense than Zeds having IA for ignoring the Tac-Bar when they grab you in PN2.



By the way, the links to videos you uploaded earlier aren't working anymore, at least not for me. Must be a Fandom website thing. You might have to upload them somewhere else, such as YouTube.

I actually was referring specifically to characters who can shoot through it, not punch. Tac Bar not protecting from melee is just its shortcoming, though in the original game it did protect from this too and I think logically it makes sense for instinctive dodging to work on all types of attacks instead of just magically being restricted solely to ranged

 

[Employe]

By the way, the links to videos you uploaded earlier aren't working anymore, at least not for me. Must be a Fandom website thing. You might have to upload them somewhere else, such as YouTube.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/File:20260530_201517.mp4

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/File:20260530_201626.mp4

 

[Employe]

Some feats on Tac-Bar

Protagonists can easily do it

Apparently even Soldat could replicate it

 

[Employe]

Makes feats' of characters whose aimed shots could bypass Tac Bar's defense even more impressive

 

[Employe]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Employe/Jorge_(Madness_Combat)

Jorge's page is pratically finished now

 

[Comiphorous]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Employe/Jorge_(Madness_Combat)

Jorge's page is pratically finished now

The low-godly regen thing would be healing considering the context of why it happens, but i don't think they should get it on their profile in the first place. It should be an ability of MERC themselves instead of the person they're operating on. Makes more sense considering Jorge doesn't actually have that ability, he's being put together by someone else.

 

[Employe]

The low-godly regen thing would be healing considering the context of why it happens, but i don't think they should get it on their profile in the first place. It should be an ability of MERC themselves instead of the person they're operating on. Makes more sense considering Jorge doesn't actually have that ability, he's being put together by someone else.

I guess so. Waiting for MERC profiles, lol (it probably should apply to Nexus Core too).

Regen makes more sense since they are reconstructed and not just "healed"

 

[Comiphorous]

I guess so. Waiting for MERC profiles, lol (it probably should apply to Nexus Core too).

NEXUS Core will get it too yeah, I believe they made Church and Jorge if i recall correctly, so they'd just scale to what MERC does to them.

Regen makes more sense since they are reconstructed and not just "healed"

Regeneration is for recovering damage passively, which isn't what MERCs are doing. They're physically reconstructing their body (and giving some nice S-3LF), so it'd be more approriate to put it under Healing (on the MERCs page)

 

[Employe]

NEXUS Core will get it too yeah, I believe they made Church and Jorge if i recall correctly, so they'd just scale to what MERC does to them.

Iirc, there is an in-game statement on MERC levels about Church and Jorge being delegated to MERCs from Nexus Core and Jorge is directly stated to be a former Tower Guard

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

Iirc, there is an in-game statement on MERC levels about Church and Jorge being delegated to MERCs from Nexus Core and Jorge is directly stated to be a former Tower Guard

Yeah, there were even posters around the NC tower's Golem locker room saying to not let those two back in, they lacked the genteel accents and demeanors necessary. Although they would have returned that gear if they weren't interrupted! Incidentally, very good sandbox for Jorge with some hints about your good justifications on skill stuff.



By the way, I've been playing Arena Mode recently; so much fun. Have been making some notes of abilities here and there, albeit not much you guys haven't already noted. Your remembering PN2 having Attack Reflection was correct, though, as it's an ability in the melee skill tree. I'll see if I can stress test it against high-caliber weapons and such sometime. I suppose a prospective PN2 Arena Mode protag profile would have to have dividers for abilities -- something like "Standard Abilities/Equipment," then class-specific ones -- if compositing is off the table.

 

[Comiphorous]

By the way, I've been playing Arena Mode recently; so much fun. Have been making some notes of abilities here and there, albeit not much you guys haven't already noted. Your remembering PN2 having Attack Reflection was correct, though, as it's an ability in the melee skill tree. I'll see if I can stress test it against high-caliber weapons and such sometime. I suppose a prospective PN2 Arena Mode protag profile would have to have dividers for abilities -- something like "Standard Abilities/Equipment," then class-specific ones -- if compositing is off the table.

Yeah that's probably the best way to do it. Compositing wouldn't make much sense since they're per-imprint abilities.

 

[Employe]

Apparently, we still can argue Class K due to Hank pushing a wending machine to completely paste a grunt

Someone should calc it

 

[Employe]

By the way, I think The Nowhere should have Subjective Reality since it is uaed to turn unreality into reality

 

[Employe]

By the way, I've been playing Arena Mode recently; so much fun. Have been making some notes of abilities here and there, albeit not much you guys haven't already noted. Your remembering PN2 having Attack Reflection was correct, though, as it's an ability in the melee skill tree. I'll see if I can stress test it against high-caliber weapons and such sometime. I suppose a prospective PN2 Arena Mode protag profile would have to have dividers for abilities -- something like "Standard Abilities/Equipment," then class-specific ones -- if compositing is off the table.

Have you unlocked Magiturge?

 

[Alexander]

So they really don't have any age thing.

 

[Comiphorous]

Experiment 2 takes place before Project Nexus Classic it seems.

 

[Alexander]

Experiment 2 takes place before Project Nexus Classic it seems.

WHERE?SHOW ME?THE VIDEO?

 

[Comiphorous]

WHERE?SHOW ME?THE VIDEO?

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

Have you unlocked Magiturge?

Not yet, that'll be my next run. With how magic works in Madness, he's probably the most OP lore-wise. Gameplay-wise, it'd have to be the Tinkerer for spamming Dissonance concoctions so much that he actually might qualify for Danmaku.

At last! I'm surprised, though, I was expecting Scrapeface to return. The Piracy PSA mouth grunts are canon?! That doctor guy was cool, scuffed face lines like the Massive from PN2 arena & some standardization for certain Mag models having arms. Nice to see competent Soldats, lots of good choreography and detail throughout. I'm not sure where to place this time-wise, since it would make sense for this to be before the rescue in PNC, yet there's a poster of Antipathy Hank in the elevator shaft where the guys got squished. When do the games take place compared to the animations? I had assumed between MC4 & MC5.

 

[Comiphorous]

At last! I'm surprised, though, I was expecting Scrapeface to return. The Piracy PSA mouth grunts are canon?! That doctor guy was cool, scuffed face lines like the Massive from PN2 arena & some standardization for certain Mag models having arms. Nice to see competent Soldats, lots of good choreography and detail throughout. I'm not sure where to place this time-wise, since it would make sense for this to be before the rescue in PNC, yet there's a poster of Antipathy Hank in the elevator shaft where the guys got squished. When do the games take place compared to the animations? I had assumed between MC4 & MC5.

the PSA mouth grunts are officially referred to as "Pirates"

As for the timeline, i'm not sure. Considering the designs it seems like it takes place farther into the timeline than we thought. We know the designs we see in Project Nexus 2 isn't super canon so it's entirely possible that the game takes place further into the timeline than we originally thought.

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

The return of the Pirates will be sure to thrill the guys who made this. There are other fan animations I like more, but this might be the one that best emulates Krinkles's style and pacing, you could almost fool me into thinking he made this. Not big into how distressed Sanford looks in this -- that guy can keep his cool, he saw the mangled corpse of his best friend in MC9 & was no more rattled than having angry eyebrows for a while until the compounded stress of being stabbed, dyning/fighting through the Tricky battle, and being chased and mindflayed by the Auditor wraith -- but he does have to survive a crazy boss rush here, too. Crazy amount of things happening in each battle, intriguing descent into hell, too, even if it isn't 100% lore-friendly (which is fine).

 

[Comiphorous]

The return of the Pirates will be sure to thrill the guys who made this. There are other fan animations I like more, but this might be the one that best emulates Krinkles's style and pacing, you could almost fool me into thinking he made this. Not big into how distressed Sanford looks in this -- that guy can keep his cool, he saw the mangled corpse of his best friend in MC9 & was no more rattled than having angry eyebrows for a while until the compounded stress of being stabbed, dyning/fighting through the Tricky battle, and being chased and mindflayed by the Auditor wraith -- but he does have to survive a crazy boss rush here, too. Crazy amount of things happening in each battle, intriguing descent into hell, too, even if it isn't 100% lore-friendly (which is fine).

In a few months Krinkels is going to include a second version of Experiment 2 when he makes the Experiment 1+2 combo video which will feature the Pirates talking, so even MORE pirate content.

 

[Employe]

Experiment 2 takes place before Project Nexus Classic it seems.

Are you sure? Because we see an Antipathy Hank

 

[Comiphorous]

Are you sure? Because we see an Antipathy Hank

Sanford and Deimos get captured by the AAHW, which leads straight into MPN Classic. The selfie Sanford takes at the beginning of the episode is the same one Hank is given when he raids the AAHW facility to save them.

I believe the intended timeline is that Experiment 2 takes place during MC 6.5-7 (Whilst hank still has the metal jaw look), Hank gets murked during MC7, and at the end of Experiment 2 was Hank's resurrection where he would go to rescue the two.

 

[Employe]

Sanford and Deimos get captured by the AAHW, which leads straight into MPN Classic. The selfie Sanford takes at the beginning of the episode is the same one Hank is given when he raids the AAHW facility to save them.

I believe the intended timeline is that Experiment 2 takes place during MC 6.5-7.

MPN is widely agreed to happen between 4-5.

By the way, I think we now can fully scale Soldats to protagonists

 

[Comiphorous]

MPN is widely agreed to happen between 4-5.

MPN2 Is widely agreed to happen between 4-5. Experiment 2 leads into MPN Classic, which happens in the future (besides episode 1.5)

 

[Comiphorous]

What i believe the intended timeline is;

MPN Classic (Episode 1.5) -> Madness Combat 1-4 -> MPN2 (roughly here) -> Madness Combat 5-6 -> Madness Combat 6.5 -> Experiment 1-2 -> MPN Classic (Episode 1)

 

[Employe]

MPN2 Is widely agreed to happen between 4-5. Experiment 2 leads into MPN Classic, which happens in the future (besides episode 1.5)

MPN2 literally follows MPNC, though. It starts after Deimos, Sanford and Hank finish off various facilities on outskirts and later intend to go into City

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

Are we sure that it's Hank who is to rescue Sanford & Deimos after Experiment 2? It might be that this is simply a second time the duo has been captured. It looks as if whatever was the result of the Mag they put in the chamber may be the "weird solution" on the way to a future sequel. I haven't seen any official statements on anything regarding this, though.

I'm thinking MPC 1.5 > MC 1-4 > PN2 > MC5-8 (roughly) > Experiment 1, 2, and a possible future 3 > MC9-present.

 

[Comiphorous]

Are we sure that it's Hank who is to rescue Sanford & Deimos after Experiment 2? It might be that this is simply a second time the duo has been captured. It looks as if whatever was the result of the Mag they put in the chamber may be the "weird solution" on the way to a future sequel. I haven't seen any official statements on anything regarding this, though.

I'm thinking MPC 1.5 > MC 1-4 > PN2 > MC5-8 (roughly) > Experiment 1, 2, and a possible future 3 > MC9-present.

Krinkels already said there was not going to be an experiment 3. That wasn't a set up for a sequel.

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

Ok, if there's no Experiment 3, then I've no clue how to parse the PNC rescue with the MC6 Hank poster, especially since everything in MP5 onwards is relentless for Hank with no time for him to go on a side story like Sanford & Deimos do. The Experiments are probably like the "Incidents" and not canon, being self-contained & not really effecting anything, anyway.

 

[Employe]

Are we sure that it's Hank who is to rescue Sanford & Deimos after Experiment 2?

They showed to us an open vent, so it is 100% him

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

I don't think Hank has an exclusive monopoly on vents; what became of that Mag? This would all be easy to place if it wasn't for that MC6 poster. I can't even be sure that was an error or easter egg as opposed to something stranger, though, especially with other teasing background images such as the mentions of "three cans" (like the "two can" metaphor used for explaining cosmology in MP2) and "cycle" at the top of the elevator shaft, though that might be just a joke and something innocuous such as a reference to clone generations, respectively. But also whatever's going on with what's on the monitors at the start, Doc's base, and the Mag chamber. Hmm, starting to feel a bit of madness seeping in over this, don't wanna overthink it...

 

[Comiphorous]

This basically proves Hank was the one who came out of the chamber.

The half-mag scientist and Hank swapped places.

 

[Alexander]

Why can't we give the Nevadeans (everyone) type 1 immortality?
The G01 are special yes, but they don't really have a different aging process compared to the rest of the generations.

 

[Comiphorous]

Why can't we give the Nevadeans (everyone) type 1 immortality?
The G01 are special yes, but they don't really have a different aging process compared to the rest of the generations.

Because they’ve shown to age normally. Rich made it a big deal for 15 years of his life going to waste.

Whether it’s a big deal because life expectancy is low from murderers or they genuinely can die of old age is unclear.

 

[Alexander]

Because they’ve shown to age normally. Rich made it a big deal for 15 years of his life going to waste.

Whether it’s a big deal because life expectancy is low from murderers or they genuinely can die of old age is unclear.

It was 30 years, not 15 (and actually, Rich should have changed his shift 29 years ago).
Also it sounds more like he spent a huge amount of time powering the station and he is upset that it is going to be turned off just like that.
And it was made clear by Krink that they just don't die from old age at all (they will die from anything else except aging) Hank is way older than him, and you don't see him with white hair or anything.