Dragon Ball Heroes: A CRT that doesn't even exist

[Vietthai96]

Finally, I have my time to make a CRT [that doesn't even exist]. Anyway no need for an intro, let's go into this nonexistent CRT

1. Nonexistent History

So we have DB timeline contains within it normal dimensions such as Universes, and a void/nonexistent dimension which is World of Void, this is accepted per cosmology page. So that mean normal timeline contains and encompasses both existent dimensions and nonexistent dimensions. Timeline is also History as per cosmology page as well

in DBH we have something called Nonexistent History, so it is just history/timeline, but a nonexistent one

Now, History is stated to transcend the universe and everything else, this is pretty much direct, universe here referring to universes, and everything else referring to the rest of what the timeline contains within it, which includes WoV.

So Nonexistent History as per above, is also a history/timeline, just a nonexistent one and history is stated to transcend the universe and everything else including WoV, thus the nonexistent history also transcend the universes and the world of void within it

This is equal to a nonexistence that contains, encompasses and transcends existence and nonexistence, making it NEP Nature Type 2. So Nonexistent History will get NEP Nature Type 2, about Aspect, it is the same as WoV game verse, which is with Aspect Type 5 [Other: History, Space-Time, Causality, Fate] as per terminology page, space-time is history, causality and fate

• Ki manipulation for DBH/XV verses gets baseline NEP2 interaction due to people with Ki can interact with timelines/histories and nuke the multiverse which obviously includes the nonexistent history
• SDBH Super Shenron get updated for being able to restore all timelines, including nonexistent history

2. Subspace

Again as per the cosmology page Subspace was accepted as NEP realm. However in the game verse we know that Instant Transmission teleport the user into a space that transcends time, this space is part of the Subspace. So that means Subspace transcends time

Now according to the game terminology, "time" here is actually referring to timeline/history. This was supported by the fact that IT in game verse can also be used to teleport to different points in time

• This makes the Subspace a nonexistent dimension that transcends timelines/histories which obviously includes nonexistent history. So the Subspace should get NEP Nature Type 2 as well, with one layer of NEP2 as it transcends nonexistent history which is baseline NEP2. Its Aspects are the same as the nonexistent history above plus Aspect 2 [Concept]

3. Demon Realm

This is the Demon Realm, it has NEP2 accepted, but it needs to be updated. Anyway, Demon Realm is again a nonexistent dimension due to completely devoid of space-time, it was, however, still recorded in the Time Scroll, and latter it was erased by Chronoa

Now Time Scroll is a manifestation of Time Power that governs everything even the Subspace, the scroll can record even the Nonexistent History - a NEP2 realm, and the Demon Realm was erased from it. This make the Demon Realm a NEP2 realm that is even more erased compare to Nonexistent History (Baseline) and the Subspace (1 Layer), thus make it 2 layers into NEP2

• As Time Scroll writes things as information type 2, Demon Realm should also get Aspect 4 for its NEP
• Time Power obviously can affect Demon Realm so it get NEP Aspect 4 interaction

4. The [no name] void

There is a void leftover after Mechikabura absorbed everything including Nonexistent History, Subspace, Demon Realm. The scan literally says there is nothing left. This makes the nothingness leftover by Mechikabura even deeper than all 3 above, making it 3 layers into NEP2. Its Aspect is the same as the Demon Realm with Aspect Types 2 [Concept], 4 [Information] & 5 [Other: History, Space-Time, Causality, Fate, Probability, Law] due to being further into nothingness more than the Demon Realm and is literally a void of complete nothingness devoid of the entire cosmology

• Keysword and Time Power get 3 layers for its NEP Nature Type 2 interaction for being able to interact with this void
• Time Power's void hax get updated due to being able to reverse this NEP2 void back to existence, or in other word, NEP2 negation

Summary, a TLDR for anyone who obviously want a short version

1. Nonexistent History get NEP Nature Type 2 as it transcends the universes and everything else in it (existent dimensions and nonexistent dimension)

• Ki for game verse get NEP2 interaction
• Super Shenron hax get updated due to being able to restore a NEP2 realm

2. Subspace get NEP2 and 1 layer into it as it transcends even the nonexistent history which is baseline NEP2

3. Demon Realm get 2 layers into NEP2 due to being erased from Time Scroll make it more nothingness compare to the two above

• It get Aspect 4 due to Time Scroll have Info 2 so get erased from it, meaning the Info 2 of the Demon Realm is nonexistent
• Time Power NEP2 erasure get Aspect 4 as well

4. The [no name] void leftover by Mechikabura after dude absorbed everything gets one more layer into NEP2, making it have 3 layers due to being further into nothingness compared to the 3 above. It have the same Aspect as the Demon Realm with Aspect Types 2 [Concept], 4 [Information] & 5 [Other: History, Space-Time, Causality, Fate, Probability, Law]

• Keysword and Time Power NEP2 interaction upgrade to 3 layers due to being able to interact with this void
• Time Power void hax upgrade due to being able to reverse this void back to existence

This is all. i was short on time so I decided to write in a simplified manner, so if there is confusion, then it is what it is

Agree:
Neutral:
Disagree:

 

[Killerdrone123]

Everything sounds reasonable so agree with the crt

 

[Mbpoops]

Nep timeline

 

[Vietthai96]

Nep timeline

Greatest thing ever in history

 

[Mbpoops]

Greatest thing ever in history

What history? It doesnt exist

 

[Killerdrone123]

Stop talking about non existent things

 

[RanHover60]

█ █████

 

[AyOgUyS]

more knowledgeable DBH peeps have agreed so ig I will as well

 

[Vietthai96]

Anyway

@DarkDragonMedeus @Elizhaa @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless @TWILIGHT-OP

Sorry for the ping but...........................................well..................need your opinions

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks good to me.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

I heavily disagree with this. I'm gonna write my thoughts later.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I'm pretty sure you gotta have more specific statements about being completely beyond both Existence and Nonexistence as in being outside both 1 and 0, instead of simply being more nonexistent.

 

[CongratulatorySnail399]

Can you even use the manga panel for nonexistent history? Was it translated by wiki staffs or a reliable translator the wiki recognizes?

 

[Vietthai96]

I'm pretty sure you gotta have more specific statements about being completely beyond both Existence and Nonexistence as in being outside both 1 and 0, instead of simply being more nonexistent.

you.................don't really need that specific. a void is literal nonexistence, and the rest is obviously existence, it isn't need to spell out when something is existing

for NEP2 as long as you are NEP, and then existing in a state that is neither existence nor nonexistence is enough, it could be transcend, beyond, in-between

 

[Killerdrone123]

I'm pretty sure you gotta have more specific statements about being completely beyond both Existence and Nonexistence as in being outside both 1 and 0, instead of simply being more nonexistent.

I mean that's where the history transcending everything scan is for as mentioned history transcends/beyond is universe and everything else which would include wov

Since universes/existence here is 1 and wov/non existence is 0 history transcends both which applies to non existent history too which would be a non existence that is beyond 0 and 1

Subspace follows the same logic as it is said to lack concept of space and time and is beyond time itself now as vieth mention time here is not just simply limited to just universe time as i.t has proven to travel to different points in time of different timelines so the statement can't be just limited to universal ranges of time and as explained in terminology page time is history/non existent history since subspace is beyond this non existent history it just gets another layer or even if you ignore above portion of history itself subspace non existence itself would atleast be beyond wov

 

[CongratulatorySnail399]

you.................don't really need that specific. a void is literal nonexistence, and the rest is obviously existence, it isn't need to spell out when something is existing

for NEP2 as long as you are NEP, and then existing in a state that is neither existence nor nonexistence is enough, it could be transcend, beyond, in-between

Also from my understanding there exists nonexistent history that encompasses the universe with existent and nonexistent timelines?

Why does it have to be NEP type 2 instead of a higher cosmological structure. Just because it is a higher structure shouldn’t necessitate it being NEP type 2.

From what I’m seeing it’s just a higher structure that’s nonexistent. I see no proof that the nonexistence of this timeline fundamentally differs from conventional existence and nonexistence rather than just being a bigger cosmological structure with the plus side of being a nonexistent one at that.

Do you have more evidences about the void aspect of this history? Maybe that could help.

 

[Vietthai96]

Also from my understanding there exists nonexistent history that encompasses the universe with existent and nonexistent timelines?

history is timeline, it encompasses the universes and world of void which is a nonexistent world

Why does it have to be NEP type 2 instead of a higher cosmological structure. Just because it is a higher structure shouldn’t necessitate it being NEP type 2.

it can be both, depend on verse context, generally speaking, but higher cosmological structure isn't the point of this thread

From what I’m seeing it’s just a higher structure that’s nonexistent. I see no proof that the nonexistence of this timeline fundamentally differs from conventional existence and nonexistence rather than just being a bigger cosmological structure with the plus side of being a nonexistent one at that.

??

Do you have more evidences about the void aspect of this history? Maybe that could help.

wdym void aspect??

 

[SuperNova55555]

Can it be parsed in what sense the history is [non-existent]? If I didn't miss something, there's no context on this. This matters because for NEP, the history has to be nothingness, but if [non-existent] is meant as a metaphor for history that simply didn't get to pass, then that's a completely different thing we're talking about.

 

[CongratulatorySnail399]

history is timeline, it encompasses the universes and world of void which is a nonexistent world


it can be both, depend on verse context, generally speaking, but higher cosmological structure isn't the point of this thread


??


wdym void aspect??

I see that. So it encompasses both existing and non-existing worlds.


Yeah what I’m trying to say is that just because it’s a higher cosmological structure that encompasses both existing and non-existing structures doesn’t automatically make it beyond said structures composition. It can still encompass them and still be a regular void at the end of the day. So far the evidences in the op only proves it being encompassing and not a fundamentally different structure.


Basically what I’m trying to say is there isn’t enough evidence for the nonexistence of this timeline to be any different than conventional nonexistence or existence rather than just being a higher cosmological structure.

In my eyes there’s two aspects of this structure. History, and the nonexistence of said history. Im asking you if you got any more evidences/scans about the nonexistence of this history being fundamentally different than conventional existence and non-existence.

Edit: also was the manga panel scan that you used translated by wiki translators or is allowed on the wiki?

 

[Ultimuru]

I agree.

Now let me actually read that.

 

[Vietthai96]

Can it be parsed in what sense the history is [non-existent]? If I didn't miss something, there's no context on this. This matters because for NEP, the history has to be nothingness, but if [non-existent] is meant as a metaphor for history that simply didn't get to pass, then that's a completely different thing we're talking about.

So we're going down at flowery, metaphor argument?. ngl, i feel like it is a very cheap way to debunk thing

Anyway the original raw for it is this:

存在しない歴史

and the term

存在しない

Mean literally Does not exist, so if you want a word-by-word translation from the Japanese text, then it is History that does not exist

History is Timeline, Space-time in the verse context, so it is literally Nonexistent Space-Time, or Space-Time that does not exist

Yeah what I’m trying to say is that just because it’s a higher cosmological structure that encompasses both existing and non-existing structures doesn’t automatically make it beyond said structures composition. It can still encompass them and still be a regular void at the end of the day. So far the evidences in the oponly proves it being encompassing and not a fundamentally different structure.

It is literally stated to transcends things so i think this is kind of handwaving away statement and not actually address it

 

[CongratulatorySnail399]

So we're going down at flowery, metaphor argument?. ngl, i feel like it is a very cheap way to debunk thing

Anyway the original raw for it is this:

and the term

Mean literally Does not exist, so if you want a word-by-word translation from the Japanese text, then it is History that does not exist

History is Timeline, Space-time in the verse context, so it is literally Nonexistent Space-Time, or Space-Time that does not exist


It is literally stated to transcends things so i think this is kind of handwaving away statement and not actually address it

Transcend can mean many things such as it’s a higher timeline or just a bigger structure so that’s kind’ve a nothing burger. You need proof the nonexistence is fundamentally different than both existence and nonexistence that it encompasses. Also you never replied to my comment if the panel you used was translated by wiki staffs or allowed on the wiki because it would be against the rules if it wasn’t.

 

[SuperNova55555]

it is a very cheap way to debunk thing

Ok. I don't care.

Mean literally Does not exist, so if you want a word-by-word translation from the Japanese text, then it is History that does not exist

And I'm asking in what "way" it doesn't exist.

 

[Killerdrone123]

And I'm asking in what "way" it doesn't exist.

He already said that

History is Timeline, Space-time in the verse context, so it is literally Nonexistent Space-Time, or Space-Time that does not exist

Basically a non existent space time or in sense it's space time doesn't exist

 

[SuperNova55555]

He already said that

Basically a non existent space time or in sense it's space time doesn't exist

Very uninformative

 

[Hecky2222]

Can it be parsed in what sense the history is [non-existent]? If I didn't miss something, there's no context on this. This matters because for NEP, the history has to be nothingness, but if [non-existent] is meant as a metaphor for history that simply didn't get to pass, then that's a completely different thing we're talking about.

Pretty much this

It doesn't read as NEP Timeline even if you go by "Buuuuuut History is Timeline in DB"

and you have them f#cking time stopping even supposed to be NEP space time place

All this proves Nova's points about them being NEP in what sense.

Nothing here really proves what OP is arguing about, so hard disagree here

 

[Da3ggman]

no

 

[Mbpoops]

So we're going down at flowery, metaphor argument?. ngl, i feel like it is a very cheap way to debunk thing

if i speak.

 

[Killerdrone123]

Pretty much this

It doesn't read as NEP Timeline even if you go by "Buuuuuut History is Timeline in DB"

and you have them f#cking time stopping even supposed to be NEP space time place

All this proves Nova's points about them being NEP in what sense.

Nothing here really proves what OP is arguing about, so hard disagree here

Honestly it's preety weird given how chronoa literally said this



Also to enlightened the conversation it refers to how Goku using ssj4 would destroy time or mess it up but as chronoa mentioned as it is sealed off from time it is ok to use it in demon realm

 

[Mbpoops]

Im lowkey just kinda confused on how they travel to a nonexistent timeline.. using time powers..?

 

[SuperNova55555]

Honestly it's preety weird given how chronoa literally said this



Also to enlightened the conversation it refers to how Goku using ssj4 would destroy time or mess it up but as chronoa mentioned as it is sealed off from time it is ok to use it in demon realm

LOL, isolated from time = non-existent time

 

[Mbpoops]

LOL, isolated from time = non-existent time

Nep2 crack of time

 

[Hecky2222]

Honestly it's preety weird given how chronoa literally said this



Also to enlightened the conversation it refers to how Goku using ssj4 would destroy time or mess it up but as chronoa mentioned as it is sealed off from time it is ok to use it in demon realm

Isolated from time doesn't explain how they magically can stop "NEP" Time. It is super blatant anti feat which comes from same manga you took "Nonexistent History" thing.

 

[Mbpoops]

Maybe IX did have NEP spatial dimensions…

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Maybe IX did have NEP spatial dimensions…

Maybe you can time travel in BDE1 realms now

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

in DBH we have something called Nonexistent History, so it is just history/timeline, but a nonexistent one

Well, it seems Nova and Hecky beat me to it, but yes, it is genuinely extremely obvious that the title 'Nonexistent History' is not being used with the literal connotation of 'a timeline that does not exist,' but rather as a grandiloquent way of referring to a world sealed off from the flow of time, which, for all practical purposes, places it outside conventional 'history.'

I think OP himself does not realize the implications of what he is trying to propose.

 

[Entity]

Pretty much this

It doesn't read as NEP Timeline even if you go by "Buuuuuut History is Timeline in DB"

and you have them f#cking time stopping even supposed to be NEP space time place

All this proves Nova's points about them being NEP in what sense.

Nothing here really proves what OP is arguing about, so hard disagree here

I see that using time based abilities in timeless voids is a common thing in Dragon Ball

 

[Slav]

The whole nonexistent history argument is very bad ngl

 

[Gamin_Yoon23]

Just referencing the recent derailment, please don’t derail from this point. I’m pretty sure the OP is currently asleep and anymore clogging will become an eyesore to look at. State your stance and reasoning and leave it at that unless another comment is called for. Currently neutral, I haven’t got the chance to read through everything but I think I see what’s going on here.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

If the same level of scrutiny applied to DBS were applied to DBH, the verse would not have even half the hax it currently has. I have taken a look at more pages of the verse, and I genuinely do not understand how some things were accepted.