Top 15 Strongest Non-Smurfs for Every Tier Continuation 4.0

[Dragonite007]

Bump


Yo, doesn't seem controversial

Except for whether they should be tied with Deadline or be below it

Deadline can't affect them cuz NEP and passive EE of whatever that comes close, but they can't fully affect it either, cuz 8D HDE vs 6D range

Done

 

[Minaaaa]

For #2 in 7-C, what do they do

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

For #2 in 7-C, what do they do

many hax layers of info 2 type hax , reality warping and law hax.

 

[Bobsican]

From what I recall dimensional superiority has more priority than just inconning for the purposes of placement, given that the list is of the strongest characters for every tier, rather than the hardest ones to kill for every tier, so I'd also think that Slime should just be moved to 3rd, come to think about it.

 

[AlexSamDen]

From what I recall dimensional superiority has more priority than just inconning for the purposes of placement, given that the list is of the strongest characters for every tier, rather than the hardest ones to kill for every tier, so I'd also think that Slime should just be moved to 3rd, come to think about it.

They do have more hax variety, layering and etc

Otherwise I wouldn't even propose a shared spot

 

[Bobsican]

That's only used as a tiebreaker when the stats are the same

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

From what I recall dimensional superiority has more priority than just inconning for the purposes of placement, given that the list is of the strongest characters for every tier, rather than the hardest ones to kill for every tier, so I'd also think that Slime should just be moved to 3rd, come to think about it.

If we're talking about deadline here, the only thing that he has superior to Tensura is his tier; everything else that's non-dimensional structure-related is far surpassed by them.

So yeah, if strongest means purely "tier", then Deadline is stronger, if it means "stronger" in any other way, Tensura takes this, if they mean in a fight, it's an incon...

 

[Minaaaa]

many hax layers of info 2 type hax , reality warping and law hax.

Any idea of the effects of them and if they're thought based/passive

 

[AlexSamDen]

That's only used as a tiebreaker when the stats are the same

The thing you quoted

1) Doesn't say that it only works for equal stats

2) Talks about tiebreaker, not tieformer

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Actual question, though, can Deadline even nuke the cosmology if the entire cosmology is just IM2? (I personally don't think so, even if he is higher-dimensional)

 

[Rikimarox2]

Any idea of the effects of them and if they're thought based/passive

Who are you trying to nominate? Because they'd have to pass Neo first before tackling the godless planet.

 

[Bobsican]

The thing you quoted

1) Doesn't say that it only works for equal stats

"same ap and speed and dimension"

That seems to be the whole intent of the question brought up, given that those are the most relevant stats, and it's not like there's some pedantic argument for this case involving some other less used stat like Lifting Strength. For the purposes of the list it's already expected that a character has the same physical stats as the tier they're being nominated for, so Striking Strength and Durability are also implicitly included for this scenario, for instance.

2) Talks about tiebreaker, not tieformer

Unsure how this is a counterpoint to begin with, as the concern is on breaking the tie, which is a precedent already clarified and used as a reference here, in fact the burden of proof would be on you to claim for a tieformer.

Actual question, though, can Deadline even nuke the cosmology if the entire cosmology is just IM2? (I personally don't think so, even if he is higher-dimensional)

Metaphysical aspects are implicitly also destroyed indirectly if the universe they define is, as much destroying all physical instances of a concept also indirectly destroys the concept without requiring to have the capability to manipulate the respective metaphysical aspect. Slime supporters have already brought up some NEP junk making it impossible to conventionally nuke some stuff regardless of AP, however, but like, that's still just avoiding a loss over actually beating the higher spot.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Metaphysical aspects are implicitly also destroyed indirectly if the universe they define is, as much destroying all physical instances of a concept also indirectly destroys the concept without requiring to have the capability to manipulate the respective metaphysical aspect. Slime supporters have already brought up some NEP junk making it impossible to conventionally nuke some stuff regardless of AP, however, but like, that's still just avoiding a loss over actually beating the higher spot.

I am reading what you linked as more of a prevention from NLF to give hax to space/time destruction rather than what you are implying.

• Only acts of direct destruction, creation or significantly affecting (in the sense explained in the Tiering System) are considered valid for tiering purposes. Destroying the universe at the beginning of time, resulting in the subsequent fading away of timelines due to causality paradoxes, does not meet the criteria for classification. In such cases, it is important to determine that the destruction of multiple branching timelines is not achieved simply by destroying one timeline, leading to the others being erased as a consequence of their interrelated past being destroyed. This evaluation is done on an individual basis and depends on factors such as the nature and representation of the destructive actions. Additionally, for ranking creation feats, further considerations must be taken into account according to this page.

• It should be noted that variations in the flow of time, such as faster or slower rates, do not necessarily indicate the existence of separate universes or space-time continuums. This phenomenon can occur within a single universe or pocket dimension, and therefore does not serve as sufficient evidence for the existence of multiple universes or space-time continuums.
• Characters capable of destroying 4-dimensional spacetime continuum(s) of universal scale will be granted Spacetime Manipulation for being able to affect the Spacetime of the universe. However, it must be noted that the physical destruction of a spacetime continuum is not sufficient to grant a character manipulation over its metaphysical aspects (such as laws, causality, etc.) that may have perished alongside it. If these aspects are destroyed simply because the physical universe housing them no longer exists, it is considered a result of their interrelatedness with the physical plane, rather than direct manipulation. Unless the fiction explicitly specifies that the destruction was of metaphysical in nature, no additional abilities pertaining to our Metaphysical page shall be granted. The same standard applies to the creation or alteration of such

So yeah, this does not prove what you are trying to say.

Not to mention, you are directly going against metaphysical aspects such as CM 1, that are independent from Space/time... So yeah, I don't buy that argument, unless actual evidence is provided.


SO yeah, anything that actually proves that they can destroy a verse based entirely on a metaphysical aspect, they can't interact with?

 

[Bobsican]

I am reading what you linked as more of a prevention from NLF to give hax to space/time destruction rather than what you are implying.


So yeah, this does not prove what you are trying to say.

No, it's there as users were trying to grant metaphysical hax to anyone that nuked universes when that was done directly (aka, physical destruction) over by manipulating that kind of stuff.

Not to mention, you are directly going against metaphysical aspects such as CM 1, that are independent from Space/time... So yeah, I don't buy that argument, unless actual evidence is provided.


SO yeah, anything that actually proves that they can destroy a verse based entirely on a metaphysical aspect, they can't interact with?

Oh, type 1 CM changes things, what I said applies for type 2 (and type 3 by extension as that's a worse version of that), that's indeed a fair point by its nature and all, but it still doesn't refute the point of the dimensionality gap acting as a tiebreaker. @Dragonite007 may want to comment however.

 

[Minaaaa]

Who are you trying to nominate? Because they'd have to pass Neo first before tackling the godless planet.

Well no one rn, but what does he have for his 7-C, passives/thought based/range

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

No, it's there as users were trying to grant metaphysical hax to anyone that nuked universes when that was done directly (aka, physical destruction) over by manipulating that kind of stuff.

I think there is a miscommunication, since that is exactly what I said...

Oh, type 1 CM changes things, what I said applies for type 2 (and type 3 by extension as that's a worse version of that), that's indeed a fair point by its nature and all, but it still doesn't refute the point of the dimensionality gap acting as a tiebreaker. @Dragonite007 may want to comment however.

My point was that I don't believe Deadline could even nuke the cosmology in the first place, but it had no real impact on the result.

But yeah, IM 2 is the same position as CM 1 here, that's why it's relevant. (I did comment that the only thing Dealine has is his tier)

 

[Rikimarox2]

Well no one rn, but what does he have for his 7-C, passives/thought based/range

Neo? Well...

Aura of death that instantly kills anything it touches (Thought-based to activate), thought-based death manip (Conceptual), Concept Type 2 and Law Manip, Time Stop that works by devouring your time or smth, thought-based EE that can erase a sun, spatial shenanigans.

Oh and, High-Godly resurrection and resistance to it (Info and Concept), Damage Reduction that makes literally every ability only affect 60% of him, ie 40% damage reduction, which would make it impossible for someone to completely erase him. Oh and, Resistances out of the ass and layered, too. Oh and, Infinite Mind Resistance and Willpower.

 

[AlexSamDen]

No, it's there as users were trying to grant metaphysical hax to anyone that nuked universes when that was done directly (aka, physical destruction) over by manipulating that kind of stuff.

Yeah, and the page also says that metaphysical stuff doesn't necessarily perish with physical destruction, it's up to the series to establish that

And you still didn't answer how would they destroy the totality of reality, when said reality is composed of IM2

@Dragonite007 may want to comment however.

He already tied them at spot 2

 

[Minaaaa]

Neo? Well...

Aura of death that instantly kills anything it touches (Thought-based to activate), thought-based death manip (Conceptual), Concept Type 2 and Law Manip, Time Stop that works by devouring your time or smth, thought-based EE that can erase a sun, spatial shenanigans.

Oh and, High-Godly resurrection and resistance to it (Info and Concept), Damage Reduction that makes literally every ability only affect 60% of him, ie 40% damage reduction, which would make it impossible for someone to completely erase him. Oh and, Resistances out of the ass and layered, too. Oh and, Infinite Mind Resistance and Willpower.

Could he be BFR'd?

 

[Rikimarox2]

Could he be BFR'd?

He should already resist Teleportation that is able to teleport others away. Though of course, that's just for BFR that teleports others. If it is a different kind, then, eh, possibly? Depends on how the BFR works.

Though, he can just kill himself with a thought if needed and go to the Underworld. From there he'll just come back to Earth by just wishing it.

Also, that assumes the person would be able to immediately BFR him and not just get insta-killed or power nulled, or anything really. Also, if the BFR has to travel through space, then good luck. This dude has Analytical Prediction that can see the lines of everything and knows how an attack will go (not just a prediction, these lines are weird as shit).

 

[Bobsican]

I think there is a miscommunication, since that is exactly what I said...

What I tried to say is that raw AP on its own can nuke cosmologies even if they have metaphysical aspects tied to them, although this is no longer a point for reasons I'll get next.

My point was that I don't believe Deadline could even nuke the cosmology in the first place, but it had no real impact on the result.

But yeah, IM 2 is the same position as CM 1 here, that's why it's relevant. (I did comment that the only thing Dealine has is his tier)

In the thread I linked its discussed that IM2 is among the metaphysical aspects that are still tied to a cosmology (aka, can't exist without the cosmology), and thus would fall on the premise above, however I'd have to concede the point as CM1 is a thing here, which does behave as you say.

Yeah, and the page also says that metaphysical stuff doesn't necessarily perish with physical destruction, it's up to the series to establish that

And you still didn't answer how would they destroy the totality of reality, when said reality is composed of IM2

He already tied them at spot 2

I meant in the sense for clarification on what's prioritized for higher spots, as that's qutie a gray area right now from the look of things, as it almost seems like just existing independently of a cosmology + layered hax suffices over any dimensional tier, and just inconning on its own doesn't enable to share a spot looking at precedents (in this case, Deadline can beat 8-D characters at all while Slime characters can't).

 

[AlexSamDen]

In the thread I linked its discussed that IM2 is among the metaphysical aspects that are still tied to a cosmology (aka, can't exist without the cosmology), and thus would fall on the premise above, however I'd have to concede the point as CM1 is a thing here, which does behave as you say.

The problem here is that the cosmology is IM2

It's literally made out of it

(in this case, Deadline can beat 8-D characters at all while Slime characters can't).

Slime characters can beat 8D guys as long as no HDE tho?

Without HDE, if it's just AP and Dura, Deadline is getting slimed too

On the other hand, Deadline can't beat 8-9D guys (with range but no HDE) that have a bit more hax than it, while slime can

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

What I tried to say is that raw AP on its own can nuke cosmologies even if they have metaphysical aspects tied to them, although this is no longer a point for reasons I'll get next.

In the thread I linked its discussed that IM2 is among the metaphysical aspects that are still tied to a cosmology (aka, can't exist without the cosmology), and thus would fall on the premise above, however I'd have to concede the point as CM1 is a thing here, which does behave as you say.

That just ignores my entire statement, Tensura information is not "tied to the cosmology", it quite literally is what makes the cosmology itself... Information can exist without the cosmology, while nothing in tensura can exist without information.

 

[Bobsican]

The problem here is that the cosmology is IM2

It's literally made out of it

That just ignores my entire statement, Tensura information is not "tied to the cosmology", it quite literally is what makes the cosmology itself... Information can exist without the cosmology, while nothing in tensura can exist without information.

Oh, that's more specific, something making a cosmology and something making and existing independently of it are separate premises, well then I guess.

Slime characters can beat 8D guys as long as no HDE tho?

Without HDE, if it's just AP and Dura, Deadline is getting slimed too

On the other hand, Deadline can't beat 8-9D guys (with range but no HDE) that have a bit more hax than it, while slime can

8-D-sized characters, otherwise you could extend the same logic to claim that hax layers are the most important factor for the list by defaulting to 3D bodies as targets, and thus they may as well challenge even higher spots.

 

[AlexSamDen]

8-D-sized characters,

You didn't specify

 

[GodSinBad2280]

Huh? Why is Tensura ranked above DBH? DBH has plenty of 7D HDE characters, along with numerous resistances and hax abilities that Tensura can't really do anything against.

 

[AlexSamDen]

Huh? Why is Tensura ranked above DBH? DBH has plenty of 7D HDE characters, along with numerous resistances and hax abilities that Tensura can't really do anything against.

Mainly cuz no one actually made a proposal

And because the recent CC Goku vs Rimuru match ended with both sides agreeing that the profiles aren't up to date enough and requested closure

(Also, who's HDE in 7D in DBH?)

 

[GodSinBad2280]

Mainly cuz no one actually made a proposal

And because the recent CC Goku vs Rimuru match ended with both sides agreeing that the profiles aren't up to date enough and requested closure

(Also, who's HDE in 7D in DBH?)

DBH has several 7D HDE characters, including Mechikabura, Ozotto, and the Time Bird.

 

[Deonment]

In the thread I linked its discussed that IM2 is among the metaphysical aspects that are still tied to a cosmology (aka, can't exist without the cosmology), and thus would fall on the premise above, however I'd have to concede the point as CM1 is a thing here, which does behave as you say.

No it isn't???
IM2 doesn't depend on what it defines, it never has, even IRL quantum information doesn't cease to be when an object is destroyed, it's a conserved quantity ffs, and in situations elsewhere where the existence of information more fundamental than reality comes up, I struggle to think of literally any scenario where information would by necessity be erased whenever whatever object it defines is erased. Even in digital scenarios, information just gets flipped to 0 if something ceases to be, not outright erased.

 

[Lou_change]

So I looked at the High 8-C list

1. Characters from Kral Şakir

2. Henry Stickmin / Toujou Karuna

3. Choi Yoon-seok / Deathmaster Snikch

4. Anri

5. F (Alphabet)

6. Mardicus

7. Korosensei

8. Bunny

9. Brandon Heat

10. Dio

11. Ryukendo

12. Player (Fart Attack)

13. Characters from Parahumans (Leviathan, Khonsu and The Simurgh)

First why is Player (Fart Attack), Ryukendo, and Brandon Heat doing here

Leviathan gets 4 kilometers worth of space to build up water to just tsunami them, only Brandon can handle Khonsu aging them to death but he can be trapped in a time field and while he could still shoot he can get past the regeneration and durability of Khonsu which is basically incap, none of them can handle The Simurgh's range, M class telekinesis, and mind hax.

Dio can't truly harm them and none of his ways to ignore durability work so. Khonsu does get to keep Dio in a time field until sunrise unless Dio becomes able to stop time forever before that point, the other two basically do the same thing they did before.

Bunny can't hurt truly hurt them either so I think she loses the war of attrition because they can harm her more consistently and The Simurgh just mind haxs without killing her.

Korosensei his mind hax might be layered enough to work however the also seems to be meant to work on humans specifically and he gets walled until he dies.

I think the list here should be reordered.
I propose the following

1. Characters from Kral Şakir

2. Henry Stickmin / Toujou Karuna

3. Choi Yoon-seok / Deathmaster Snikch

4. Anri

5. Mardicus (I don't see anyone lower who gets past the sealing)

6. Characters from Parahumans (Leviathan, Khonsu and The Simurgh) (I already explained most of this)

7. Korosensei

8. Bunny

9. Dio

10. F (Alphabet) (Single biggest fall off no resistances his best techniques are clones he never actually used, Paralysis which Dio with his stand can probably work around and Bunny can rewind, and to a degree cheating by using a speed amp in speed equalized fights)

11. Brandon Heat

12. Ryukendo

13. Player (Fart Attack)

These three seem to have just been added as filler.

 

[Deonment]

A reminder that Tohu is still High 8-C and thus is enough to push parahumans up to 4th, but beyond that, there are other choice that can get them there such as Titan Blindside, who is a character of all time, but to tl;dr you can't target them at all, can't look at them, your body would sooner snap your neck, all the while it can easily turn you insane

 

[Dragonite007]

I think the list here should be reordered.
I propose the following

1. Characters from Kral Şakir

2. Henry Stickmin / Toujou Karuna

3. Choi Yoon-seok / Deathmaster Snikch

4. Anri

5. Mardicus (I don't see anyone lower who gets past the sealing)

6. Characters from Parahumans (Leviathan, Khonsu and The Simurgh) (I already explained most of this)

7. Korosensei

8. Bunny

9. Dio

10. F (Alphabet) (Single biggest fall off no resistances his best techniques are clones he never actually used, Paralysis which Dio with his stand can probably work around and Bunny can rewind, and to a degree cheating by using a speed amp in speed equalized fights)

11. Brandon Heat

12. Ryukendo

13. Player (Fart Attack)

These three seem to have just been added as filler.

Changed

A reminder that Tohu is still High 8-C and thus is enough to push parahumans up to 4th, but beyond that, there are other choice that can get them there such as Titan Blindside, who is a character of all time, but to tl;dr you can't target them at all, can't look at them, your body would sooner snap your neck, all the while it can easily turn you insane

4th has Madness type 3 and CM2

 

[HakutoRei000]

Changed

I propose Adventurer (Iruna) in 3-C for Jedah position.

He has information type 2, Causality Manipulation, Probability Manipulation, Resurrection Mid-Godly, Negation to it's Mid-Godly Resurrection, and plethora resistance against Jedah.

Add his immortality type 5,7,8,9 with his type 9 possibly existing in a higher plane of existence.

Idk what SpongeBob and Bleach can offer so no comment on it.

 

[Deonment]

Changed

4th has Madness type 3 and CM2

Madness Type 3 that isn't working on the Endbringers due to them not actually having a mind or eyes through which to make eye contact (they do not view the world through sight, sound or what have you), and titan blindside because she can't actually look at the ****** (it's based on eye contact), and that CM2 is from the next key that is tier 7, and wouldn't actually work here if I wanted to argue such

 

[Dragonite007]

existing in a higher dimensional existence.

"Higher dimensional existence"
3-C

 

[HakutoRei000]

"Higher dimensional existence"
3-C

Possibly, it just stated like that but no actual HDE (for now)

 

[Minaaaa]

I propose Adventurer (Iruna) in 3-C for Jedah position.

He has information type 2, Causality Manipulation, Probability Manipulation, Resurrection Mid-Godly, Negation to it's Mid-Godly Resurrection, and plethora resistance against Jedah.

Add his immortality type 5,7,8,9 with his type 9 possibly existing in a higher dimensional existence.

Idk what SpongeBob and Bleach can offer so no comment on it.

Doesn't look like they have the range to beat Messiah (they have tens of meters while messiah is 600) + Horror hax & Eyrith should be with them who has interdimensional spatial or temporal bfr, forgot if I asked to add her there

 

[HakutoRei000]

Doesn't look like they have the range to beat Messiah (they have tens of meters while messiah is 600) + Horror hax & Eyrith should be with them who has interdimensional spatial or temporal bfr, forgot if I asked to add her there

Oh is it another character?

 

[Minaaaa]

Oh is it another character?

Yeah she was supposed to be with them but I never asked, she should be added now tho

 

[HakutoRei000]

Yeah she was supposed to be with them but I never asked, she should be added now tho

What offensive they had?
For BFR their true form exist in a different plane of existence, unless they can reach it Adventurer can just remanifest if they did can't teleport back (they have teleportation that spans accros the cosmology).