Rimuru VS alpha

[JoshSSJGod]

Phew boi this is a lot of stuff to reply to. I'll get to it all eventually as I am very tired and will head to bed after this message.

This all would still need to bypass Rimuru's nep on concepts first.

Why so? Rimuru isn't mentioned to be nonexistent from Fate. Closest thing is Causality which still isn't the same. It isn't like Alpha is manipulating the concept itself against Rimuru.

Npi layers.... This is a rare thing xd

Could you please link the page where the npi resistance is explained in detail?

They really are.
While it is already mentioned on profile a page for it specifically is a current W.I.P much like the formula stuff mentioned prior (Alpha could use a page-revamp anywho as well its a few years old without any updates).
The quick tldr of it though is that you need to match the layers of the Ether Concentration user in order to interact with them. This applies to Alpha given he is an Ether Based Being rather than having a tradition body made of matter. What it covers is everything Ether is capable of interacting with/doing which would be everything on Alpha's profile itself alongside basically everything in the verse. From what I read of Rimuru's profile he doesn't have anything that can bypass this directly (unless he has something like Plot Manip under his sleeve) as everything he has is also an application of Ether. For example, the Corruption and Transmutation you mentioned earlier are something that would fall under Alpha's Ether Concentration.

If ya wanna know anything else lemme know, I'm heading to bed.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Okay? This doesn't really tell me anything about how he can just jump up over 40 layers at a faster rate than Alpha can.

Bassicly, he can instantly create skills that have "layers" from earlier existing skills, and he can continiue to do that for intinity, not to mention he can copy, mimic, improve all abilities he has seen or analyzed. (So anything that dosen't instantly kill him will never work again, and will become a part of Rimuru's aresenal.

Alpha is already capable of negating those. This is without Alpha's Reactive Evolution giving him access to Resistance Negation to bypass Rimuru's resistance to EE anywho.

That's not how it works; he can't nullify abilities that he can't even interact with.

Neat, that isn't covering the layered resistance. Even if it did Alpha does not need his body to function. His previous incarnation Alvis has existed without it.

??? It's not just the body but the entirety of their "existence", that gets erased.

Nonexistence Erasure (Nature Type 2, Aspect Type 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 [Others: Space & Time, Life & Death, Law & Causality]

Thank you for actually giving me something and not just saying "ITS THIS HIGH ARE YOU STUPID?!". Though I would like to ask where that even is on his profile, I did not see it at all when looking through his resistances and the layering. The most I saw was 5 layers.

As mentioned we have lots of shit on the profile, but it is accepted, this is one of them...

Agree @SomebodyData (Agree with Method 2, but is fine with Method 1 if most people think it works better), @King Tempest( Same as @SomebodyData), @Elizhaa (Same as @SomebodyData )

Okay? I mean yeah that is Void Manipulation but it isn't exactly boosting the potency of it at all just what it can affect.

It's basically an NLF proff stuff, let's say I have basic ee, that doesn't mean I can also erase Souls and mind without proff, that is what I mean regarding the other aspects.
But yes, NEP 2 is completely unreachable with NEP 1, no matter how many layers, so NEP 2>infinite layers of NEP 1.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Why so? Rimuru isn't mentioned to be nonexistent from Fate. Closest thing is Causality which still isn't the same. It isn't like Alpha is manipulating the concept itself against Rimuru.

That's the thing, you don't assume his fate hax can interact with Rimuru unless said fate hax is shown to work on nonexistent concepts ¯⁠\⁠⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠⁠/⁠¯

The only way to bypass this would be if said fate hax is self inflicted, aka it makes the user always win, rather than the enemy always lose

And even then, it would need proof to be able to do something against Rimuru's cm NEP.

They really are.
While it is already mentioned on profile a page for it specifically is a current W.I.P much like the formula stuff mentioned prior (Alpha could use a page-revamp anywho as well its a few years old without any updates).
The quick tldr of it though is that you need to match the layers of the Ether Concentration user in order to interact with them. This applies to Alpha given he is an Ether Based Being rather than having a tradition body made of matter. What it covers is everything Ether is capable of interacting with/doing which would be everything on Alpha's profile itself alongside basically everything in the verse. From what I read of Rimuru's profile he doesn't have anything that can bypass this directly (unless he has something like Plot Manip under his sleeve) as everything he has is also an application of Ether. For example, the Corruption and Transmutation you mentioned earlier are something that would fall under Alpha's Ether Concentration.

If ya wanna know anything else lemme know, I'm heading to bed.

Hmm, so the npi resistance is limited to what ether itself can interact with?
In that case Rimuru would just bypass the NPI res with other things alpha doesn't resist or circumvent it by other means... Like sealing Alpha along with his surroundings instead and making them lower dimensional via Dimensional Manipulation (it's in his demon lord key).
From sba:

Victory Conditions: Removing the opponent from the battlefield for at least one week (BFR), knocking the opponent out for at least one hour, or incapacitating the opponent by putting them in a state in which they can not harm the other fighter(s) for over a day, are to be assumed as victory conditions.

Since this is about bypassing npi resistance rather than lacking interaction for things alpha is AE on, this would still work.

I also don't see how Alpha will not be incapacitated by a cosmology nuke (since alpha doesn't have BDE1, I don't see how he'd be able to do anything in an environment lacking space and time. Sure he'd survive cuz npi, but he won't be able to harm Rimuru.

Though I'm curious on how his npi layers are infinite. Is it for his ether being infinite or something? A guess

 

[Mizuki67]

Astral has more supporting points. My vote is on Rimuru

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Hmm, so the npi resistance is limited to what ether itself can interact with?
In that case Rimuru would just bypass the NPI res with other things alpha doesn't resist or circumvent it by other means... Like sealing Alpha along with his surroundings instead and making them lower dimensional via Dimensional Manipulation (it's in his demon lord key).

The sealing one was actually something done before in XB1 with Alpha's previous incarnation Alvis but it didn't work as they has issue just leaving or going back to higher dimensions like Memory Space or just undoing the seal as he did in XB1.

I also don't see how Alpha will not be incapacitated by a cosmology nuke (since alpha doesn't have BDE1, I don't see how he'd be able to do anything in an environment lacking space and time. Sure he'd survive cuz npi, but he won't be able to harm Rimuru.

Alpha has existed in places beyond space and time before and he was fine in those scenarios so I don't think it would incapacitate him.

Though I'm curious on how his npi layers are infinite. Is it for his ether being infinite or something? A guess

Thats kinda close but not quite. The layering of Ether Concentration was based on size. The bigger you are the more layered it was (for example, an entity in xenoblade become more concentrated and thus became unaffected by things that could interact with it before by growing), Alpha's original incarnation Alvis is Large Size Type 10 surpassing infinite sized universes and Alpha's own Ether is more potent than his original incarnation. It got accepted awhile ago and its a fun ability to have since its essentially a safety net that makes XB guys really difficult to interact with.


The more I look at this the more I see a mismatch. Either Rimuru can just barely interact with Alpha enough to get an incap win or they just stare at each other n' thats it.

 

[Berga14]

The more I look at this the more I see a mismatch. Either Rimuru can just barely interact with Alpha enough to get an incap win or they just stare at each other n' thats it.

I will still remaind that void manip on a nep2 level will work perfectly fine as EE resistence is useless. Alpha has well doesn't have bde1 interaction so yeah, digital nature Rimuru and Alpha will just stare at each other until Rimuru pulls out void chollapse

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

The sealing one was actually something done before in XB1 with Alpha's previous incarnation Alvis but it didn't work as they has issue just leaving or going back to higher dimensions like Memory Space or just undoing the seal as he did in XB1.

Can you quote where that is on the page?

Alpha has existed in places beyond space and time before and he was fine in those scenarios so I don't think it would incapacitate him.

Not indexed on his profile
Or at least, I don't see BDE on his profile
Existing in places beyond time space (like timeless voids) doesn't grant BDE1 btw. It's just resistance of sorts and even that depends on context.

Thats kinda close but not quite. The layering of Ether Concentration was based on size. The bigger you are the more layered it was (for example, an entity in xenoblade become more concentrated and thus became unaffected by things that could interact with it before by growing), Alpha's original incarnation Alvis is Large Size Type 10 surpassing infinite sized universes and Alpha's own Ether is more potent than his original incarnation. It got accepted awhile ago and its a fun ability to have since its essentially a safety net that makes XB guys really difficult to interact with.

I see

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Can you quote where that is on the page?

Its in the Sealing and the Unconventional Resistance to it.

Not indexed on his profile
Or at least, I don't see BDE on his profile
Existing in places beyond time space (like timeless voids) doesn't grant BDE1 btw. It's just resistance of sorts and even that depends on context.

Is it not? I thought I had the Memory Space stuff there, if it isn't then I'll get around to fixing that later. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Its in the Sealing and the Unconventional Resistance to it.

This?

Unconventional Resistance to Sealing (The Monado 3 was able to undo the seal on the Xenoblade 1 Universe)

Sealing (Ontos was responsible for sealing the new universe and the new universe is described as a "sealed universe" by the series creator)

Not gonna lie, I don't see how it comes even close to Rimuru's lvl of sealing, which reduces the Target's dimensionality as well, trapping them in an imaginary number space.

Dimensional Manipulation (Offensive - Via <Uriel: Lord of Vows>, can seal/move a target to an infinite Imaginary Number Space, thus removing their existence (and extension) from Reality (Real Dimensions), isolating them from the rest of the world for all time - Defensive - Can also isolate oneself inside Imaginary Number Space and thus use it as a defense, preventing any interference from reality and achieving absolute defense)

On his demon lord key.

You might have forgotten to update hie sealing too xd

Is it not? I thought I had the Memory Space stuff there, if it isn't then I'll get around to fixing that later. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

Np

 

[JoshSSJGod]

This?


Not gonna lie, I don't see how it comes even close to Rimuru's lvl of sealing, which reduces the Target's dimensionality as well, trapping them in an imaginary number space.

On his demon lord key.

You might have forgotten to update hie sealing too xd

Np

Oh sorry I thought ya were mentioning the sealing and dimensional stuff as seperate things. Funnily enough there is a Dimensional Hax like that in the Xeno Series called the Hilbert Effect. Its not currently something the Blade characters have access to however so womp womp.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

am back how's votes looking

 

[AlexSamDen]

am back how's votes looking

50/50

Either Rimuru wins or incon

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Oh sorry I thought ya were mentioning the sealing and dimensional stuff as seperate things. Funnily enough there is a Dimensional Hax like that in the Xeno Series called the Hilbert Effect. Its not currently something the Blade characters have access to however so womp womp.

Well, me reaffirming my vote for Rimuru via Dimensional Sealing + Alpha lacking NPI, then (⁠^⁠^⁠)

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

rimuru fra.

 

[WorthyRhinoceros951]

RIMURU FRA

 

[Maniaunavailable]

so its 3 rimuru votes?

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Probs, though in this scenario where Alpha can't interact with Rimuru then ya won't be able to add this to profiles.

 

[AlexSamDen]

so its 3 rimuru votes?

Make it 4

Rimuru FRA

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Probs, though in this scenario where Alpha can't interact with Rimuru then ya won't be able to add this to profiles.

Yeh
Though, I thought this was for some list??

 

[BoastJr]

Rimuru slams so hard

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Probs, though in this scenario where Alpha can't interact with Rimuru then ya won't be able to add this to profiles.

Pretty sure the OP just wanted to compare them for a top placement list.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

Pretty sure the OP just wanted to compare them for a top placement list.

nah just wanted to take out xenoblade because its always on the top 3 but no one does a matchup with them lul

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Pretty sure the OP just wanted to compare them for a top placement list.

That's aight. Well Ggs, yall have a nice one.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

bumping this cuz there has to be more xenoblade supporters

 

[Berga14]

bumping this cuz there has to be more xenoblade supporters

They got erased cause, like Alpha, they don't have resistence to Nep2 void.