"Seidr and Starlight"- Freya (God of War) vs Aqua (Kingdom Hearts)

[Eseseso]

Two badass heroines who were trapped in darkness but found redemption in the light.

Location: Near Kratos and Atreus' home in Ragnarok

SBA

Aqua's 1-C key is being used.

Equalized speed.

Aqua:

Freya:

Incon:

 

[King_of_nothing13]

i didn't see sleep manipulation in Freya's resistance section so aqua sleep diff's gg

/j

 

[TheRealDababye]

Freya wins, superior stats and range, aqua can time stop but freyas iq and experience means she could be experienced to not be hit by it, plus her immortality negation can bypass Aqua's auto life resurrection, aqua doesnt have anything to answer for it.

 

[Eseseso]

Freya wins, superior stats and range, aqua can time stop but freyas iq and experience means she could be experienced to not be hit by it, plus her immortality negation can bypass Aqua's auto life resurrection, aqua doesnt have anything to answer for it.

Plus Vanir are used to time stops as they can do it themselves.

 

[Theglassman12]

@King_of_nothing13 Aqua about to pull some Leon ass one liner like “The Queen of Valkyries huh? Guess even the Queen needs to give Birth by Sleep”

 

[King_of_nothing13]

@Theglassman12 Exactly then she will do an extra backflip to make our Glorious King proud

 

[Theglassman12]

Shot lock into a Backflip for extra measures

 

[Nonynho]

I do also think Freya outskills here, what's Aqua's canon starting move tho?

 

[ThatBoiRick]

Freya wins, superior stats and range, aqua can time stop but freyas iq and experience means she could be experienced to not be hit by it, plus her immortality negation can bypass Aqua's auto life resurrection, aqua doesnt have anything to answer for it.

She negates Type 7 immortality, how would that stop resurrection?

Her opening attacks usually start with elemental attacks or teleportation to close in the distance.

 

[Bobsican]

I do also think Freya outskills here, what's Aqua's canon starting move tho?

As a game character it's basically whatever, although she does lean more into magic compared to other KH characters given her affinities lean on that direction

Also, it seems like she can just spam a ton of status effects for free openings here

 

[Nonynho]

Well, i also think Freya could start by arrowing her ass or trying to restrict her movement (i think the latter's a tad bit more likely)

Can Aqua resist/deal with all the effects of Seidr and Bifrost?

 

[Bobsican]

Well, i also think Freya could start by arrowing her ass or trying to restrict her movement (i think the latter's a tad bit more likely)

Meh, she can teleport and has dealt with similar stuff before.

Can Aqua resist/deal with all the effects of Seidr and Bifrost?

Basically everything haxy but Transmutation and Poison Manip is resisted.

 

[Nonynho]

Meh, she can teleport and has dealt with similar stuff before.

Well, the vines restrict her with [immeasurable vs class M] LS so Freya should be able to get one or two shots in before Aqua tps
Also, anything not resisted from Seidr and Bifrost will immediately hit her, the first when facing the binding spell, basically, and the latter if she ends up getting shot/hit

 

[Bobsican]

Can't she just keep the vines away with stuff like Mine Square, Deep Freeze or Mega Flare? She can fly, also.

 

[Theglassman12]

Freya can also fly so that’s not gonna matter too much for Aqua.

 

[Planck69]

Freya does the vine stuff to Odin, who can also fly. And yeah, poison is a go-to for her as well.

 

[Nonynho]

If we knew more about Yen Sid i'd put him against Freya, since he's basically skill incarnate for the good side of things

Aqua, skillfull as she should be as one of the craziest biggest baddest Keyblade Masters in existence should be able to deal with the vines, but that'd prompt Freya to use other parts of her kit, which should include the poison, so i don't see Aqua winning this one atm

 

[Bobsican]

Oh, I almost forgot, can't Aqua just heal the poison with Esuna?

 

[Nonynho]

Maybe, but she gets inflicted again, no?

 

[Theglassman12]

There’s also the fact GoW Magic can attack your soul, including your literal luck so once that aspect is gone, whatever Aqua can try to do will probably fall flat on its face due to her luck being destroyed.

 

[Bobsican]

Most ranged attacks Aqua has are homing ones, but ultimately that'd depend on how long the fight drags on in practice, I'd imagine.

Maybe, but she gets inflicted again, no?

Depends, how hard are they to dodge? Can they be blocked?

 

[Theglassman12]

How is Aqua handling her luck being attacked directly due to GoW magic being able to affect those aspects of your being? Because that's gonna screw her over in the long run the moment she gets hit by any attacks from Freya.

 

[Bobsican]

Oh, it seems like this whole deals works by affecting the metaphysical junk of the target, so it'd depend on if verse equalization is made between souls in GoW and hearts in KH. If this is made (given both are type 1 concepts / type 2 infos that make up whoever in question), then it'd be resisted as this is induced by damaging such stuff in the first place, which is what the resistance to (KH) darkness in KH does.

 

[Theglassman12]

That's not how verse equalization works, you need to prove Aqua can resist probability hax in the first place since that aspect of herself is being targeted. I don't see that resistance on her page so safe to say that's being affected. Plus KH very clearly distinguishes a Soul and a Heart in its own story with what Xemnas says about Axel so you can't even compare KH's Hearts to GoW's soul by your own logic.

 

[Planck69]

This is the funniest attempt at verse equalization I've seen lol.

 

[Bobsican]

The thing is that this lingers on verse equalization from GoW's side as well to begin with as I don't have to explain that souls in KH don't work like in GoW, and if anything there's more parallels with KH hearts, hence why.

 

[Theglassman12]

So there's no evidence that Aqua has anything to resist Probability hax, good to know. Voting for Freya since that would just snowball down against Aqua among the other abilities she has that can put Aqua down for good.

 

[Planck69]

Some surface level similarities does not mean that they are equatable, especially for when one has an aspect the other completely lacks.

Freya eventually takes this.

 

[ThatBoiRick]

Some surface level similarities does not mean that they are equatable, especially for when one has an aspect the other completely lacks.

Freya eventually takes this.

Simultaneously, souls in KH are not created from luck. How does soul manipulation affect probability in this instance unless we verse equalize?

And even then what are we equalizing? Souls are CM1 while in KH that falls to hearts.

 

[Theglassman12]

This sounds like semantics when the whole point of Verse Equalization is that the powers on both franchises would work on each other despite the different rules they have, and it's up to the person representing said verse to prove said resistances are even a thing. The fact Aqua doesn't have it listed on her page means she's susceptible to the ability so idk why we're making this argument on something that doesn't exist in KH's pages.

 

[Planck69]

Does or does she not resist Probability Manipulation? Trying to game a resistance that she doesn't have out of verse equalization technicality is asinine.

 

[King_of_nothing13]

hmm you would think kh being a jrpg it would have something like that maybe we should look into the abilities more because they need an update. but for now i am leaning towards aqua because she's hotter. for tho leaning towards freya with the current page's and reasoning given

 

[Bobsican]

This sounds like semantics when the whole point of Verse Equalization is that the powers on both franchises would work on each other despite the different rules they have, and it's up to the person representing said verse to prove said resistances are even a thing. The fact Aqua doesn't have it listed on her page means she's susceptible to the ability so idk why we're making this argument on something that doesn't exist in KH's pages.

The whole point of verse equalitation is semantics, IDK what you're on, it's not like speed equal in that we just assume that all powers work and dismiss most countermeasures / limitations.

Quoting from SBA:

Verse equalization: Similar supernatural aspects of verses get equalized in a reasonable fashion. So a supernatural energy that almost everyone in a Verse has, which is necessary to fight the characters of said Verse, will be assumed to be the equivalent energy that the opponents use in their techniques so that a proper fight can happen.

Furthermore, attacks that require a special type of energy to be effective, like anti-magic requiring magic, will be assumed to work against the energies of different Verses, as long as they are somehow similar and the mechanics are somehow compatible with the known mechanics behind the energies from different Verses. For example, mind control resistance by being a capable mind user would also work against other Verses, but mind control resistance through a strong will would not necessarily work against mind control from other Verses. It is also important to note that characters won't lose or gain any abilities or resistances which they do or do not inherently possess. However, if an ability has a weakness, condition, caveat, or limitation, consistently shown throughout its use (such as not working on characters under a specific condition, like energy gap) or stated by a valid and uncontradicted statement, then it should be applicable after the equalization.

Equalization works highly on a case-by-case basis, so many relevant cases should be discussed in the versus thread itself.

In fact the metaphysical aspects page says that much for this kind of junk.

As we can not list every possible kind of metaphysical aspect that may appear in fiction, not listed things like names, Dao, essence or ether are usually sorted into the existing abilities by judging what seems most similar to the ability even if it is not an exact equivalence. At the same time do different fictions at times call very similar ideas by different names, such that what is called concept in one fiction might end up being almost the same as what is called information in another.

Therefore comparing souls in GoW to hearts in KH isn't that wild of an idea and the standards basically actively encourage that.

Now, how does this matter? Because this is inflicted by affecting a metaphysical aspect, so it's not as simple as resisting X or not, but rather how affecting X triggering Y interacts with someone that resists X but not Y, as much Ground-type Pokemon can't be paralyzed by Electric-type moves but can by any other means.

 

[Pepsimanslover]

The whole point of verse equalitation is semantics, IDK what you're on, it's not like speed equal in that we just assume that all powers work and dismiss most countermeasures / limitations.

Quoting from SBA:


In fact the metaphysical aspects page says that much for this kind of junk.



Therefore comparing souls in GoW to hearts in KH isn't that wild of an idea and the standards basically actively encourage that.

Now, how does this matter? Because this is inflicted by affecting a metaphysical aspect, so it's not as simple as resisting X or not, but rather how affecting X triggering Y interacts with someone that resists X but not Y, as much Ground-type Pokemon can't be paralyzed by Electric-type moves but can by any other means.

"It is also important to note that characters won't lose or gain any abilities or resistances which they do or do not inherently possess."

 

[Bobsican]

"However, if an ability has a weakness, condition, caveat, or limitation, consistently shown throughout its use (such as not working on characters under a specific condition, like energy gap) or stated by a valid and uncontradicted statement, then it should be applicable after the equalization."

 

[Pepsimanslover]

"However, if an ability has a weakness, condition, caveat, or limitation, consistently shown throughout its use (such as not working on characters under a specific condition, like energy gap) or stated by a valid and uncontradicted statement, then it should be applicable after the equalization."

Hearts do not encompass luck.

GoW naturally damages luck.

Does she resist Probability Manipulation or not.

 

[Bobsican]

GoW damages luck by damaging the soul, which is equalizable to hearts

Heart damage is resisted

Can they bypass the resistance to heart damage or not?

 

[Planck69]

GoW damages luck by damaging the soul, which is equalizable to hearts

Heart damage is resisted

Can they bypass the resistance to heart damage or not?

You just automatically assumed that we accepted them being the same here, which we have not. Hearts don't have luck, souls do. Hearts are made of light/darkness not magic like souls are. Hearts are, by the page itself, separate from souls, while there's no such distinction in God of War for souls.

 

[Bobsican]

Again, refer to the metaphysical aspects standards for equalization, different labels for similar things to potentially equalize are expected by the standards even.

 

[Theglassman12]

So can you point at what weaknesses Soul Magic GoW has that allows Aqua to get around her luck being targeted? You're not pointing anything that's a limitation with GoW soul magic that makes this incapable of affecting Aqua?