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God of War: Higher Tiers Speed Upgrade

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Planck69

Planck69

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Introduction​

Can't believe I'm the one doing one of these. Yeah, this is an upgrade for the gods and divine beings to Immeasurable speed.

Norse scaling​

So recently, Ymir was accepted as 6-dimensional and Complex Multiverse level in size and physical statistics respectively, due to being the creator and source of Norse reality and its greater time here.

This is relevant as this includes 2 temporal dimensions, those of the Nine Realms and that of the greater Norse reality. As such, he physically encompasses and spans multiple temporal dimensions, thus making him Immeasurable.

Odin would slay Ymir in battle at the start of creation, bringing about the birth of time with the latter's spilled lifeblood. He would directly also scale to Immeasurable. Thor, whom is repeatedly stated to be the strongest of the Norse gods, would scale slightly above his father due to magic being the source of all physical attributes in the setting, with speed and strength growing in tandem.

A young Jormugandr barely withstands blows from Thor at his prime, one of which sends him through time. When he arrives, a younger Thor comes up against him and the two have a realm-shaking battle that ends in a stalemate. Jormugandr would then grow to his full size and power over time, which makes it all the more impressive that Baldur would proceed to knock him out in merely a few blows. As such, not only would Baldur backscale from Thor, but so would all the godlike elite beings that are comparable to him, like the Dark Elf King, and Gullveig, as well as being superior to him like, Sigrun.

As such, all Norse gods and elite beings would thus be upgraded to Immeasurable.

Greek scaling​

The threads of Fate stretch to every point in the world and exist for all living and non-living beings, spanning all of time, throughout the whole Greek World. These are all managed and created by the Sisters of Fate.

The is notable as the threads require change and weaving every single moment with extreme precision and they do this with countless threads. Routinely multi-task and simultaneously forge the Threads, being able to create weaving moment-to-moment outcomes on threads and showing incredible precision when weaving the lives of mortals.

The Fates can detect vibrations in the threads and then expertly react to the incoming quivers and shakes in a thread in real time. Overall, they should be Immeasurable speed for the above.

Kratos can react to and fight them even before recovering his godly powers, and proceeds to fight the entirety of the Olympians and Titans who can keep up with him. Not only that but Helios is imbued with one of the Primordial magics responsible for Ymir himself, and would scale to their northern brethren anyways.

As such all divine beings would be upgraded to Immeasurable as well.

TL;DR​

All 1-Cs are getting updated to Immeasurable speed.

Agree: 6 (KingTempest, Qawsedf234 (Only for the Sisters of Fate feat), AbaddonTheDisappointment (Only for the Sisters of Fate feat), Theglassman12 (Only for the Sisters of Fate feat), GilverTheProtoAngelo, Pepsimanslover)

Disagree: 1 (Qawsedf234 (Ymir scaling))

Neutral: 1 (AbaddonTheDisappointment (Ymir scaling), Theglassman12 (Ymir scaling))
 
Last edited:
https://vsbattles.com/threads/immeasurable-speed-honkai-is-the-greatest-psyop-of-all-time.186990/

The justification for Ymir's Immeasurable Speed is that he can observe two timelines simultaneously (through spanning two temporal dimensions) however a similar feat in the thread above was nuked. Lygus had immeasurable speed from observing two timelines at once and reacting to them both.

See exhibit B: Lygus

it's (his perception) explicitly bound by the linear flow of time--he just perceives the flow of time differently in two perspectives. That's it.
Click to expand...

Perceiving two different temporal dimensions / perspectives doesn't mean you can literally ignore time itself. It seems the same here.
Can Ymir move backwards in time / defy time with its sheer speed?
 
PlungingThroughTime said:
https://vsbattles.com/threads/immeasurable-speed-honkai-is-the-greatest-psyop-of-all-time.186990/

The justification for Ymir's Immeasurable Speed is that he can observe two timelines simultaneously (through spanning two temporal dimensions) however a similar feat in the thread above was nuked. Lygus had immeasurable speed from observing two timelines at once and reacting to them both.

See exhibit B: Lygus
Click to expand...
Ymir's feat isn't "observing time", he physically spans multiple temporal dimensions. And also, what wider verse context Honkai has or doesn't have is irrelevant here.
 
PlungingThroughTime said:
https://vsbattles.com/threads/immeasurable-speed-honkai-is-the-greatest-psyop-of-all-time.186990/

The justification for Ymir's Immeasurable Speed is that he can observe two timelines simultaneously (through spanning two temporal dimensions) however a similar feat in the thread above was nuked. Lygus had immeasurable speed from observing two timelines at once and reacting to them both.

See exhibit B: Lygus



Perceiving two different temporal dimensions / perspectives doesn't mean you can literally ignore time itself. It seems the same here.
Can Ymir move backwards in time / defy time with its sheer speed?
Click to expand...
There's literally no similarity between these two feats. Ymir is the size of two Temporal dimensions، which as per the speed page is Immeasurable.

Immeasurable (Movement unbound from the flow of linear time, which cannot be measured. Given that S = D/T, if T is undefined, the speed formula cannot be applied. This is the same reason why multiple temporal dimensions also grant immeasurable speed. For further information, see the "Further Explanations"-section below)
 
Some of arguments make sense to me however I don't get why Ymir isn't just omnipresent with this justifications, is there some elaboration here?
 
Planck69 said:
He's just very, very big. Not like, the whole verse or smth.
Click to expand...
Oh so he is big enough to contain realms which contains temporal dimensions, but doesn't exist everywhere?

Ig immeasurable speed for Ymir and chainscaling comes from them is fine. My only problem was this.
 
For the Fates, my main issue with this is that it doesn't seem to satisfy the current conditions of Immeasurable speed, where you actually have to move through time itself to qualify. Were they actually able to brute-force their way through physically, this wouldn't be much of an issue.

As for Ymir, not sure if birthing time actually grants Immeasurable. You'll have to ask other experts regarding this.
 
Planck69 said:
Ymir's feat isn't "observing time", he physically spans multiple temporal dimensions. And also, what wider verse context Honkai has or doesn't have is irrelevant here.
Click to expand...
As DT said, it's one thing to be bigger than temporal dimensions vs encompassing them.

That said, further elaboration would be needed I reckon, and I'm not about go asking for it.
 
I’d note Thor’s shockwaves are what he explicitly weaponises against Kratos as well, adding support to this since said shockwaves can travel across the realms and even shatter space time
 
KLOL506 said:
For the Fates, my main issue with this is that it doesn't seem to satisfy the current conditions of Immeasurable speed, where you actually have to move through time itself to qualify. Were they actually able to brute-force their way through physically, this wouldn't be much of an issue.
Click to expand...
They react to thread movements across time and manipulate threads spanning time and space.
KLOL506 said:
As for Ymir, not sure if birthing time actually grants Immeasurable. You'll have to ask other experts regarding this.
Click to expand...
....? Ymir is Immeasurable for spanning multiple temporal dimensions, not for "birthing time".
 
Hellbeast said:
I’d note Thor’s shockwaves are what he explicitly weaponises against Kratos as well, adding support to this since said shockwaves can travel across the realms and even shatter space time
Click to expand...
Not good enough. You'd need proof those shockwaves accompany Jorm back through time.
 
KLOL506 said:
As DT said, it's one thing to be bigger than temporal dimensions vs encompassing them.

That said, further elaboration would be needed I reckon, and I'm not about go asking for it.
Click to expand...
.....KLOL did you actually read the OP or did you just see Ymir and decide your stance by default? That thread made sense cause Ymir and the Primordials only spanned a single time dimension. That's not the case here.
 
Shouldn't most of this scale to combat/reaction speeds only rather than Combat/Reactions + Travel Speed, or Im missunderstanding?
 
Lloydblitzed said:
Shouldn't most of this scale to combat/reaction speeds only rather than Combat/Reactions + Travel Speed?
Click to expand...
No, once you go Infinite, you can't scale down to a lower value because dividing them will lead to the same result. Your body has to be able to cope with the speeds at hand.
 
Planck69 said:
This is relevant as this includes 2 temporal dimensions, those of the Nine Realms and that of the greater Norse reality. As such, he physically encompasses and spans multiple temporal dimensions, thus making him Immeasurable.
Click to expand...
If Ymir is physically the realm, then this is Omnipresence and not Immeasurable speed.
Planck69 said:
The Fates can detect vibrations in the threads and then expertly react to the incoming quivers and shakes in a thread in real time. Overall, they should be Immeasurable speed for the above.
Click to expand...
This one I can get as Immeasurable though.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
If Ymir is physically the realm, then this is Omnipresence and not Immeasurable speed.
Click to expand...
He is not though? He is what would eventually become Norse reality, thanks to Odin but he was very much a being that was just that vast when he emerged from the Ginnungagap.
Qawsedf234 said:
This one I can get as Immeasurable though.
Click to expand...
Alright then.
 
Planck69 said:
He is not though?
Click to expand...
If all of existence and time is spawned from his body, then that would make him Nigh-Omipresent more than Immeasurable. If he was just walking in the void of pre-creation with time already existing and Odin stabbed him, sure, that would be Immeasurable. But if it's the later your justifications probably need to be rewritten to clarify that point.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
If all of existence and time is spawned from his body, then that would make him Nigh-Omipresent more than Immeasurable. If he was just walking in the void of pre-creation with time already existing and Odin stabbed him, sure, that would be Immeasurable. But if it's the later your justifications probably need to be rewritten to clarify that point.
Click to expand...
What I don't get is, being bigger than temporal dimensions is Immeasurable but encompassing them is not, but to me they seem like the same thing (Both involve being big enough to contain them), so they both should either guarantee Immeasurable or just be Omnipresence.

So why is "encompassing" not Immeasurable, if you would be able to explain?
 
Qawsedf234 said:
If all of existence and time is spawned from his body, then that would make him Nigh-Omipresent more than Immeasurable. If he was just walking in the void of pre-creation and Odin stabbed him, sure, that would be Immeasurable. But if it's the later your justifications probably need to be rewritten to clarify that point.
Click to expand...
It's the latter that then leads into the former. But sure I can do that.
 
KLOL506 said:
What I don't get is, being bigger than temporal dimensions is Immeasurable but encompassing them is not, but to me they seem like the same thing (Both involve being big enough to contain them), so they both should either guarantee Immeasurable or just be Omnipresence.

So why is "encompassing" not Immeasurable, if you would be able to explain?
Click to expand...
I feel like there's a misunderstanding here. If Ymir was just bigger than a timeline, then yeah I wouldn't be making this thread (or at least using him as a feat) at all. The main point was the multiple time dimensions.
 
Its just labels at that point. I remember arguing for Sonic being immeasurable fighting Solaris who is omnipresent temporally. Functionally same but just different physiologies.
 
KLOL506 said:
So why is "encompassing" not Immeasurable, if you would be able to explain?
Click to expand...
To quote this part of the FAQ
By a similar notion, Beyond Dimensional Existence (Type 1) exist in a state in which they cannot be quantified by a spatial axis, while not being inherently superior to them in a fashion of qualitative superiority. Because they cannot be defined by a higher-dimensional coordinate system, they would also not qualify for an HDE rating, as there's no way to plot their existence within a spatial coordinate system. BDE Type 2 is slightly different, as those beings have a large relative size beyond spatial constructs, such as being a void that a cosmology is suspended in, but this means that their size inherently does not translate to a spatial coordinate system. Instead, they occupy a relatively larger area of cosmology, which happens to have a subset within itself that is defined by spatial coordinates.
Click to expand...
If you are a big dude who's insides are composed of space and time, that means that time participates within you, but not outside of you. This is not a speed rating, but an existence rating at that point. This means that the character encompasses time, which is nigh-omnipresence rather than Immeasurable speed. If time spawns from Ymir for the Norse cosmology, then he's not Immeasurable. Time only works within him and not outside of him.

If there is time outside of Ymir then he can be argued as Immeasurable.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
To quote this part of the FAQ

If you are a big dude who's insides are composed of space and time, that means that time participates within you, but not outside of you. This is not a speed rating, but an existence rating at that point. This means that the character encompasses time, which is nigh-omnipresence rather than Immeasurable speed. If time spawns from Ymir for the Norse cosmology, then he's not Immeasurable. Time only works within him and not outside of him.

If there is time outside of Ymir then he can be argued as Immeasurable.
Click to expand...
Btw, just to be sure, while Ymir stuff is sorted, you're fine with the Fates? If so can I add you as an agree or nah?
 
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