Star Wars: Looks like Tier 6 is back on the menu boys!

[Epyriel]

It wasn't extremely fast.

The original thread that first used the calculation took 16 days to be finalized.

That is still super fast. Most of my threads take months of messaging mods to finish.

And the intention is to apply the new value from the calculation and then solve things like scaling, etc.

As I said, I think it's better to have the new value than to have the 7-B in the profile since it's a calculation that doesn't "exist" anymore.

Solving things like scaling are supposed to be addressed in the CRT where the value is getting proposed. Not retroactively after it is already accepted.

And sure, if you don’t want an erroneous calc left up, replace it with the prior value before the 7-B value was added. Don’t switch one erroneous calc with another massively higher suspect calc.

The point wasn't to do all the work, but to help minimally, even if it's just a little assistance. You abandon the verse and the first thing you do when you come back is complain.

We chose to do one thing at a time, even though obviously not everything will be 100% up-to-date and there will still be problems to fix. If you don't like that, you can restructure the entire AP issue as much as you like.

I would maintain pointing out problems with CRTs very much is assisting.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

That is still super fast. Most of my threads take months of messaging mods to finish.

It taking months for a CRT to finish is not normal, just so you know.

Solving things like scaling are supposed to be addressed in the CRT where the value is getting proposed. Not retroactively after it is already accepted.

And sure, if you don’t want an erroneous calc left up, replace it with the prior value before the 7-B value was added. Don’t switch one erroneous calc with another massively higher suspect calc.

The scale has been created, but we'll adjust it later.

Well, the calculation isn't wrong until a calculation thread is used. I don't see a problem in replacing it with the new one for now.

I would maintain pointing out problems with CRTs very much is assisting.

It helps, but not much. I'm honestly tired of seeing people showing up (especially in general discussions) complaining about things and then not lifting a finger to help.

We know about the problem, we plan to fix it. We just can't do everything at once/quickly.

 

[Epyriel]

The scale has been created, but we'll adjust it later.

Well, the calculation isn't wrong until a calculation thread is used. I don't see a problem in replacing it with the new one for now.

Sure you can adjust it later, but that just means that it is grounds for this CRT to be rejected for all the countless anti-feats of low tier characters being proposed to being Multi-Continent level.

It helps, but not much. I'm honestly tired of seeing people showing up (especially in general discussions) complaining about things and then not lifting a finger to help.

We know about the problem, we plan to fix it. We just can't do everything at once/quickly.

Most of what I’ve been complaining about is 5-B Legends which got a thread pointing out the falsity of it like 4 years ago that got stonewalled into oblivion for a potential later rework that never came.

Which I’m now going to fix myself.

Regardless, doesn’t matter if someone doesn't want to help, everyone still has a right to point out flaws in CRTs.

 

[Grand_Astartes]

This is almost a non-sequitur at this point. You can make your own thread with complaints about flaws in the current Star Wars scaling without derailing this one, or focus specifically on formulating an argument for the entire scaling being an outlier.

 

[Epyriel]

This is almost a non-sequitur at this point.

?

You can make your own thread with complaints about flaws in the current Star Wars scaling without derailing this one, or focus specifically on formulating an argument for the entire scaling being an outlier.

Sure, I can get us started.

What about TCW Anakin needing an entire recovery arc after getting overpowered by a hallway explosion caused by the partial destruction of a Venator, several orders of magnitude below High 6-A?

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

It taking months for a CRT to finish is not normal, just so you know.

tell me about it: https://vsbattles.com/threads/resizing-retiering-the-gsr.175098/

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

What about TCW Anakin needing an entire recovery arc after getting overpowered by a hallway explosion caused by the partial destruction of a Venator, several orders of magnitude below High 6-A?

It's pretty much clear inverse that Force Users are glass cannons for the most part otherwise what's the point of Order 66

 

[HammerStrikes219]

“We will apply the Force to it together in just the same spot in just the same way at just the same time.

Avar Kriss showed the Jedi what to do, and as one, the Jedi reached out to the Force. They did not hold themselves back. They acted with disciplined desperation, leaving nothing in reserve.

We will move it.

Not far from the Fruited Moon, Te’Ami lost consciousness, yellow ichor streaming from her mouth.

We will move it.

A group of five Vectors flying in tight formation lost control of their Drift, too much of their focus devoted to the effort to shift the Tibanna bomb. Two of the craft collided before control could be reestablished, and the three Jedi aboard those ships were lost.

We will move it.

Now, Avar thought.

Across the system, Jedi reached out to the Force. Some closed their eyes, some lifted their arms, some stood, some sat meditating on the ground while others hovered above it. Some were in starships, others on the surface. Many were alone, but others were with members of their Order, or were surrounded by small groups of people who could sense, somehow, the import of what was happening, even if they could not themselves touch the Force.

Dozens of Jedi, acting as one.”


The very same feat that outright says it take dozens of Jedi to actually perform this feat as well. We acting as if it was the work of a single Jedi when it is actually dozens of Jedi Knights, Masters, and so on.


We not rating them at High 6A on a individual level, we rating the collective Jedi Order at that level.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

The very same feat that outright says it take dozens of Jedi to actually perform this feat as well. We acting as if it was the work of a single Jedi when it is actually dozens of Jedi Knights, Masters, and so on.


We not rating them at High 6A on a individual level, we rating the collective Jedi Order at that level.

Wasn't the feat performed between 4 Jedi though?

 

[HammerStrikes219]

I have nothing against the calc, but the source clearly stated it was a collective group effort so I will go by what was directly stated to us.

I rather see the Jedi Order getting the rating as a whole rather than on an individual level here.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Wasn't the feat performed between 4 Jedi though?

No, it later gets clarified it was a collective group effort. The 4 Jedi was actively struggling to perform the feat so they needed the help of other Jedi to do the job which was clearly stated

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

No, it later gets clarified it was a collective group effort. The 4 Jedi was actively struggling to perform the feat so they needed the help of other Jedi to do the job which was clearly stated

This means I need to redo the entire calc again since it's the effort of 4 Jedi and not more

Of course though where was this pointed out?

Also "dozens" is rather vague, could it be the entire 10,000 members of the Order? If so does that include younglings too?

 

[HammerStrikes219]

This means I need to redo the entire calc again since it's the effort of 4 Jedi and not more

Of course though where was this pointed out?

Also "dozens" is rather vague, could it be the entire 10,000 members of the Order? If so does that include younglings too?

LIGHT OF THE JEDI - CHAPTER 17

It is directly quoted on the canon novel.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Also "dozens" is rather vague, could it be the entire 10,000 members of the Order? If so does that include younglings too?

If dozens of Jedi are described, I think the wiki considers at least thirty? You can ask a staff member.

If you need to recalculate, you can request that the CRT be closed.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

I rather see the Jedi Order getting the rating as a whole rather than on an individual level here.

I quickly calculated off-site the AP of Individual Jedi if we assume this is the full 10,000 number, it's High 6-B if you're curious.

@Epyriel Unfortunatley as pointed out in the calc-group thread, the calculation was done incorrectly, so if you want to argue for 7-B, use a legitimate feat please and not something that's incorrect.

 

[Epyriel]

It's pretty much clear inverse that Force Users are glass cannons for the most part otherwise what's the point of Order 66

Yeah no, that is not just a durability anti-feat; Anakin directly opposes the incoming explosion with his full power ahead of time and fails.

Dying to blaster shots can at least be excused with the fact that shielding and dispersing fast and concentrated projectiles is more a difficulty of skill than raw power, but that excuse simply doesn’t work here. Anakin could push against the explosion but was simply overpowered.

While we are at it, since Kanan is included in this for some reason, we can also mention the fact that his literal story arc is concluded by being overpowered by a fuel depot explosion trillion of times below High 6-A.

Also kind of funny that the supporting evidence offered for Kanan and Ezra scaling to this was them moving some asteroids calculated at like a dozen tiers below High 6-A.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Yeah no, that is not just a durability anti-feat; Anakin directly opposes the incoming explosion with his full power ahead of time and fails.

Dying to blaster shots can at least be excused with the fact that shielding and dispersing fast and concentrated projectiles is more a difficulty of skill than raw power, but that excuse simply doesn’t work here. Anakin could push against the explosion but was simply overpowered.

While we are at it, since Kanan is included in this for some reason, we can also mention the fact that his literal story arc is concluded by being overpowered by a fuel depot explosion trillion of times below High 6-A.

Also kind of funny that the supporting evidence offered for Kanan and Ezra scaling to this was them moving some asteroids calculated at like a dozen tiers below High 6-A.

For additional context and to my understanding of the source material for the feat in question, all of this collective effort to move a powerful bomb (container is also mentioned for that matter) from a Star (which probably cause massive damage) so it is a telekinesis feat all unto itself too to my current understanding.

 

[Epyriel]

@Epyriel Unfortunatley as pointed out in the calc-group thread, the calculation was done incorrectly, so if you want to argue for 7-B, use a legitimate feat please and not something that's incorrect.

As I’ve said before, we don’t need to keep an inaccurate calc nor do we need to replace it with another either.

High tiers can be scaled to the existing accepted High 7-C calcs and low tiers can be scaled to padawan Ahsoka’s accepted 8-B+ calc.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Yeah no, that is not just a durability anti-feat; Anakin directly opposes the incoming explosion with his full power ahead of time and fails.

Dying to blaster shots can at least be excused with the fact that shielding and dispersing fast and concentrated projectiles is more a difficulty of skill than raw power, but that excuse simply doesn’t work here. Anakin could push against the explosion but was simply overpowered.

While we are at it, since Kanan is included in this for some reason, we can also mention the fact that his literal story arc is concluded by being overpowered by a fuel depot explosion trillion of times below High 6-A.

Also kind of funny that the supporting evidence offered for Kanan and Ezra scaling to this was them moving some asteroids calculated at like a dozen tiers below High 6-A.

Unless you want to take the card back to tier 9, none of these anti-feats matter. Even our lowest-value calculations would still be thousands or millions of times more powerful than the anti-feats.

We don't downgrade verses because they have some anti-feats. We have several calculations based on the anti-feats you mentioned.

 

[Epyriel]

Unless you want to take the card back to tier 9, none of these anti-feats matter. Even our lowest-value calculations would still be thousands or millions of times more powerful than the anti-feats.

We don't downgrade verses because they have some anti-feats. We have several calculations based on the anti-feats you mentioned.

Neither the explosion from a destroyed Venator nor a fuel depot explosion are Tier 9. Pretty sure I saw a Tier 7 calc for the latter too.

And the key point here is consistency. Sure you can handwave a few anti-feats away as outliers if you have numerous feats above them, but if it is the opposite (a single dubious Tier 6 calc and multiple Tier 7 or below feats and anti-feats) it ain’t the anti-feats that become outliers.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

@Epyriel I had said this on the General Discussion Thread, but I think I better say it here too.

Star Wars isn't like Dragon Ball at all, Freddie Prinze Jr. did once say in an interview that there are no power levels in Star Wars, but there's more nuance behind that statement in that you just can't give an attack potency to the Force. Trying to do so, to place every character into one neat level of power only lands you in the trappings of the Sith, it reveals just how much you don't understand the story of Star Wars, and it takes out the nuances of the Force itself, especially since it has its own will and can power up or power down characters to its desire, and the strength of a character at the moment also definitely depend upon their emotional state; really when you think about it, no matter how strong or powerful the Sith may be, the Force will always be able to raise the Jedi up to be able to defeat them, that's just how it works, and even according to George Lucas himself the most powerful beings in the Star Wars Universe are neither the Jedi or Sith but the Whills, which are microscopic lifeforms that maintained a symbiotic relationship with the Midi-Chlorians.

 

[Epyriel]

@Epyriel I had said this on the General Discussion Thread, but I think I better say it here too.

Star Wars isn't like Dragon Ball at all, Freddie Prinze Jr. did once say in an interview that there are no power levels in Star Wars, but there's more nuance behind that statement in that you just can't give an attack potency to the Force. Trying to do so, to place every character into one neat level of power only lands you in the trappings of the Sith, it reveals just how much you don't understand the story of Star Wars, and it takes out the nuances of the Force itself, especially since it has its own will and can power up or power down characters to its desire, and the strength of a character at the moment also definitely depend upon their emotional state; really when you think about it, no matter how strong or powerful the Sith may be, the Force will always be able to raise the Jedi up to be able to defeat them, that's just how it works, and even according to George Lucas himself the most powerful beings in the Star Wars Universe are neither the Jedi or Sith but the Whills, which are microscopic lifeforms that maintained a symbiotic relationship with the Midi-Chlorians.

If that is your view you are on the wrong site my friend.

I’m afraid this is quite literally a website dedicating to powerscaling characters. This is your CRT that is trying to give everyone a particular AP value.

 

[Abduwoah]

I

For additional context and to my understanding of the source material for the feat in question, all of this collective effort to move a powerful bomb (container is also mentioned for that matter) from a Star (which probably cause massive damage) so it is a telekinesis feat all unto itself too to my current understanding.

What you are referring to is the jedi stopping a fragment filled with explosive gas from hitting a star not the jedi stopping the Fruited Moon from being destroyed which is what the calc is about

 

[Abduwoah]

Just the clarify the feat from the calc was done by 4 jedi not a dozen. What was done by a dozen jedi was the stopping of the Tibanna capsule from hitting a star.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

I

What you are referring to is the jedi stopping a fragment filled with explosive gas from hitting a star not the jedi stopping the Fruited Moon from being destroyed which is what the calc is about

“Acknowledged, Master Jedi,” Joss replied. He sounded tense, too. “Remember, if you can try to hold the module together once we lock on, it’d be appreciated. This might get a little bumpy.”

“We’ll do our best.”

“All right. Firing magclamps in three…two…”

Four metal disks shot out into space ahead of their formation, angling toward the passenger compartment. The thing was venting vapor from either a coolant or a life-support system, creating a thick fog into which the disks vanished. Thick, silvery lines unspooled—the cabling attached to the Longbeam’s winches, with which they would attempt to slow the wreckage down. Three of the lines went taut, the other looping and coiling in space.“


Having to double check, it wasn’t just the efforts of the Four Jedi, they have help from non Force Users in their space vehicle as well just to save ppl there and on top of that, they already struggle to perform the feat beforehand. All the parties involved admits to struggling to deal with the module that contain living passengers after the feat was done and dealt with.

So not too sure on the feat regardless.

Edit: I will also admit I conflated the two separate instances too so my bad on that part.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Can't comment on the scaling but this is fine for applying the accept calcs to the already existing scalin

Upon rereading the calc’s source material, I think the calc just got invalidated upon discovering there was another party involved that was actually aiding the Jedi for the feat in question.

In fact.

The compartment slowed. More, and more, until it came to a slow stop, the Longbeam reeling it in on its cables.

“Whoa,” came Captain Adren’s voice over the comm. “I really didn’t think that would work.”

“You certainly waited long enough to tell us,” came Mikkel’s reply. Even through his translator, he sounded utterly exhausted.

“Almost out of fuel,” said Joss, ignoring the remark, “couple more seconds and we’d have had to shut off our thrusters. We couldn’t have done that alone. Thank you, Jedi.”

“We couldn’t have done it by ourselves, either,” Te’Ami said. “And the idea was yours. Whether you thought it would work or not, it did.”

Then, prior to the sentences I listed above, I saw this line of text as well.

”Four metal disks shot out into space ahead of their formation, angling toward the passenger compartment. The thing was venting vapor from either a coolant or a life-support system, creating a thick fog into which the disks vanished. Thick, silvery lines unspooled—the cabling attached to the Longbeam’s winches, with which they would attempt to slow the wreckage down. Three of the lines went taut, the other looping and coiling in space.“

This is from the blog’s very own source material for the fan calculation as well so I am now uncertain about this feat in its entirety and the premise is now in question along with a few assumptions too.

Edit: The Longbeam is a High Republic starship cruiser.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/5/55/RepublicDefenseCoalition.png

Here is what it looks like here.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

This is your CRT that is trying to give everyone a particular AP value.

That's why I also suggested in the General Discussion thread that Star Wars characters should be either "Varies from Tier A to Tier B normally, Tier C at peak" or "Varies, [insert tier] at peak"

 

[Legion350]

Spoiler: Context?

Upon rereading the calc’s source material, I think the calc just got invalidated upon discovering there was another party involved that was actually aiding the Jedi for the feat in question.

In fact.












Then, prior to the sentences I listed above, I saw this line of text as well.





This is from the blog’s very own source material for the fan calculation as well so I am now uncertain about this feat in its entirety and the premise is now in question along with a few assumptions too.

Edit: The Longbeam is a High Republic starship cruiser.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/5/55/RepublicDefenseCoalition.png

Here is what it looks like here.

Okay. I read through the blog again, can someone provide more context on the feat? Is most of the feat done by the ship, and the Jedi are just stopping it from breaking from the strain or is the ship just aiding them. Depending on which case, High 6-A might not be valid.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Okay. I read through the blog again, can someone provide more context on the feat? Is most of the feat done by the ship, and the Jedi are just stopping it from breaking from the strain or is the ship just aiding them. Depending on which case, High 6-A might not be valid.

It is both. The Jedi and Ship both contribute to the feat. The Jedi that was involved in the feat admitted without the starship, they actually wouldn’t done it as well for the first feat in Chapter 15 of the novel upon reading it again.

”Four metal disks shot out into space ahead of their formation, angling toward the passenger compartment. The thing was venting vapor from either a coolant or a life-support system, creating a thick fog into which the disks vanished. Thick, silvery lines unspooled—the cabling attached to the Longbeam’s winches, with which they would attempt to slow the wreckage down. Three of the lines went taut, the other looping and coiling in space.“

Here is the text I quoting here as well. They actually were doing it with the assistance of the Jedi’s telekinesis ability in question.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Oh, right, I should also provide some additional context as this was a conversation between the four Jedi and a crewman of the Longbeam after the feat was done

“You certainly waited long enough to tell us,” came Mikkel’s reply. Even through his translator, he sounded utterly exhausted.

“Almost out of fuel,” said Joss, ignoring the remark, “couple more seconds and we’d have had to shut off our thrusters. We couldn’t have done that alone. Thank you, Jedi.”

“We couldn’t have done it by ourselves, either,” Te’Ami said. “And the idea was yours. Whether you thought it would work or not, it did.”

 

[Abduwoah]

The feat is still usable it's just that the 4 jedi simply slowed down the longbeam enough for it to be caught by cables they didn't fully stop it by themselves.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

The feat is still usable it's just that the 4 jedi simply slowed down the longbeam enough for it to be caught by cables they didn't fully stop it by themselves.

Is this the same fact being discussed? I'm confused.

T

 

[Doggo]

bump

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

following

 

[Random-Helper323]

Calculation seems accepted, and if it's just being applied to scaling that is already accepted that should also be fine.

Edit: I'll vote neutral now.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Calculation seems fine, and if it's just being applied to scaling that is already accepted that should also be fine.

It's kind of like there's another problem; it seems the calculation needs to be recalculated.

I kind of stopped following it, but I think the interpretation of how the feat happened is wrong? Or does it need to be divided among more Jedi? I didn't quite understand.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Oh, right, I should also provide some additional context as this was a conversation between the four Jedi and a crewman of the Longbeam after the feat was done

The feat is still usable it's just that the 4 jedi simply slowed down the longbeam enough for it to be caught by cables they didn't fully stop it by themselves.

I don't know if any of you are still active.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

It's kind of like there's another problem; it seems the calculation needs to be recalculated.

I kind of stopped following it, but I think the interpretation of how the feat happened is wrong? Or does it need to be divided among more Jedi? I didn't quite understand.

The former, more or less, is what happened.


Edit: Also I am active now as I do check up on the forum from time to time.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

The former, more or less, is what happened.


Edit: Also I am active now as I do check up on the forum from time to time.

I'd like you to summarize the problem with the current calculation, since you and the other person I mentioned, who were more involved in the conversation, should know more about it.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

I'd like you to summarize the problem with the current calculation, since you and the other person I mentioned, who were more involved in the conversation, should know more about it.

Basically what happened is that the ship aided the Jedi in the feat in question as they outright admitted they need the help of the ship and vice versa as they were struggling to rescue people in a floating compartment and all that stuff.

Oh, right, I should also provide some additional context as this was a conversation between the four Jedi and a crewman of the Longbeam after the feat was done