Manabu Horikita vs Mr.Miyagi

[XxZetsuxX]

Manabu Horikita vs Miyagi

Rules:

• Speed is equalized.
• Starting Distance: 30 meters
• Location: Sauna
• No prior knowledge or prep time
• Miyagi is aware of Manabu's position and is out of sight
• Manabu's AP: 4.6 KJ
• Miyagi's AP: 15 KJ

	Manabu's advantages: Higher LS Higher stamina Fear Inducement More Analytical More Skilled	Manabu - XxZetsuxX, Doggo, TheHuntsman1001, Scrostinger, RoggerReggor
	Miyagi's advantages: Higher AP & Durability Better pressure points Higher Experience Better Senses Better enviromental adaptation	Miyagi - Crimsonobu, Rayfire, MintyBoi1, Epicisreallyco, KillerH

 

[Doggo]

Bro

Mr.Miyagi is actually my goat....

 

[Doggo]

Can someone deadass list me Manabu's skill feats and scaling again?

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I was just about to go to sleep lol

Here;

• More skilled than her sister who has 3 martial arts (karate, judo and possibly aikido), can predict attacks via shoulder, leg and face movements, can think of strategies mid-fight (allowed her to get Ichika off-guard)
• Ibuki is more skilled than her and can win despite only having 1 MA and no prediction abilities (but can feint)
• Upscales Kanzaki who has a kid already was being considered in having a black belt in karate
• At age 14 Manabu was already a 4th dan in aikido and 5th dan in karate
• More skilled than Ryuen who created an original martial arts that impressed Ayanokouji, Ryuen also uses furniture and cheap shots at vitals, dirt/sand to blind the opponent
• More skilled than Nanase who is equal to suzune in skill
• More skilled than Housen who has been in many extremely dangerous fights (it's said that he "survived", so who knows, he might've been in life or death situations)
• Can block an attack while blinded

 

[Crimsonobu]

I was just about to go to sleep lol

Here;

• More skilled than her sister who has 3 martial arts (karate, judo and possibly aikido), can predict attacks via shoulder, leg and face movements, can think of strategies mid-fight (allowed her to get Ichika off-guard)
• Ibuki is more skilled than her and can win despite only having 1 MA and no prediction abilities (but can feint)
• Upscales Kanzaki who has a kid already was being considered in having a black belt in karate
• At age 14 Manabu was already a 4th dan in aikido and 5th dan in karate
• More skilled than Ryuen who created an original martial arts that impressed Ayanokouji, Ryuen also uses furniture and cheap shots at vitals, dirt/sand to blind the opponent
• More skilled than Nanase who is equal to suzune in skill
• More skilled than Housen who has been in many extremely dangerous fights (it's said that he "survived", so who knows, he might've been in life or death situations)
• Can block an attack while blinded

When was Nanase equal to Suzune in skill? Isn't she superior when she enters her boku mentality state.

Ryuen also created his martial arts from street fighting experience which I'm not sure how many Manabu has. We do know he has experience fighting in conventional tournaments. Being more skilled than Housen is true but it doesn't necessarily mean having the same "life or death" situations.

Also does Manabu's fear inducement do anything here? You don't need resistance to fear inducement as it's achieved via social Influencing Influencing so it can just be done via courage and etc compared to aura. Mr Miyagi is courageous and brave from what we've seen with his character.

 

[Crimsonobu]

Also Manabu is listed as being more skilled but if you go to Mr Miyagi Intelligence section and feat for combat that clearly isn't the case

 

[XxZetsuxX]

When was Nanase equal to Suzune in skill? Isn't she superior when she enters her boku mentality state.

Not as far as i am aware, Nanase just fights more agressively but you could say she has more precise blows ig? not enough to be above Suzune's own feats

Ryuen also created his martial arts from street fighting experience which I'm not sure how many Manabu has. We do know he has experience fighting in conventional tournaments. Being more skilled than Housen is true but it doesn't necessarily mean having the same "life or death" situations.

Does not matter, he is still more skilled than him, and technically life or death doesn't apply here as none of them want to kill each other (they are good people after all)

Also does Manabu's fear inducement do anything here? You don't need resistance to fear inducement as it's achieved via social Influencing Influencing so it can just be done via courage and etc compared to aura. Mr Miyagi is courageous and brave from what we've seen with his character.

It will, it is true you can overcome with good willpower but potency is still a thing

If Miyabi has no feats of resisting fear as potent as Manabu, he will be affected by it and will have his fighting ability lowered due to fear

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Also Manabu is listed as being more skilled but if you go to Mr Miyagi Intelligence section and feat for combat that clearly isn't the case

I have checked it, and i am not impressed when Manabu has better stuff

 

[Doggo]

Manabu's fear hax really isn't that potent. It just made a bunch of students shut up. It's not like they were all drowning in intense fear. They just started listening to his speech

 

[Doggo]

I have checked it, and i am not impressed when Manabu has better stuff

Ngl the only important once are the Suzune and Ibuki feats

Miyagi can handle the other feats. This does mean Manabu has the edge in ANPR tho

 

[Crimsonobu]

I have checked it, and i am not impressed when Manabu has better stuff

I don't see a logical argument on how Manabu is better than stuff like this

With the exception of Chozen (who hit Mr. Miyagi while his back was turned), no opponent in the entire Karate Kid series has ever successfully landed a strike on Mr. Miyagi. Daniel later reveals to his son that the only time he saw someone land a hit on Mr. Miyagi was when Anthony kicked him in the face as a baby, something that had greatly amused the man

This guy fought world champions and master and no one can recall him getting hit in a actual fight I'm crying.

I'm voting Mr Miaygi for the reasons I listed above

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Manabu's fear hax really isn't that potent. It just made a bunch of students shut up. It's not like they were all drowning in intense fear. They just started listening to his speech

It was still enough to fill the place with pressure or tension, gag them and unable to open their

 

[Crimsonobu]

It was still enough to fill the place with pressure or tension, gag them and unable to open their

Yeah. It was effective on a bunch of 15 year old with most not having any fighting experience

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I don't see a logical argument on how Manabu is better than stuff like this



This guy fought world champions and master and no one can recall him getting hit in a actual fight I'm crying.

Irrelevant if these masters don't have skill feats

I will just assume they are above the average person

I'm voting Mr Miaygi for the reasons I listed above

It's too soon to vote ngl

 

[Doggo]

It was still enough to fill the place with pressure or tension, gag them and unable to open their

Still not a massive game changer tho

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Still not a massive game changer tho

I mean.. it kinda is, i have yet to see any feat from him that he can resist this

 

[Crimsonobu]

Irrelevant if these masters don't have skill feats

I will just assume they are above the average person

It's too soon to vote ngl

above the average person???

The series uses the real life counterpart for martial art skill. If Mr Miyagi beats a world champion karate (which he has) then that world champion has the level of skill an IRL world champion karate person has or superior to at least the levels below because real people from our world are mentioned in the series.

Its kind of fallacius to say just presume the average person when you can say Manabu 5th dan or other achievements might just make him above average person.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

above the average person???

The series uses the real life counterpart for martial art skill. If Mr Miyagi beats a world champion karate (which he has) then that world champion has the level of skill an IRL world champion karate person has or superior to at least the levels below because real people from our world are mentioned in the series.

Its kind of fallacius to say just presume the average person when you can say Manabu 5th dan or other achievements might just make him above average person.

Not really because unlike those masters, Manabu actually has skill feats and a skill chain

 

[Doggo]

I mean.. it kinda is, i have yet to see any feat from him that he can resist this

If it were like Koji's, where people are utterly paralyzed then sure

But all Manabu did was make a bunch of students shut up; it's not like they were puking or unable to literally move. He just caught their attention by exuding his aura. Besides if you think it works, this is a stomp.


If he were to win, it would have to be via his LS advantage

 

[Crimsonobu]

I mean.. it kinda is, i have yet to see any feat from him that he can resist this

You don't have to have feat to resist fear inducement as its achieved via social Influencing. It was discussed a long while ago. A brave character can resist fear Influencing but it isn't actually an ability so it doesn't have to be listed in P&A or indexed as a feat as its just characterisation.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

If it were like Koji's, where people are utterly paralyzed then sure

But all Manabu did was make a bunch of students shut up; it's not like they were puking or unable to literally move. He just caught their attention by exuding his aura. Besides if you think it works, this is a stomp.

Not a stomp, it would just lower his fighting ability not literally make him paralyzed

If he were to win, it would have to be via his LS advantage

That's one way yeah

 

[XxZetsuxX]

You don't have to have feat to resist fear inducement as its achieved via social Influencing. It was discussed a long while ago. A brave character can resist fear Influencing but it isn't actually an ability so it doesn't have to be listed in P&A or indexed as a feat as its just characterisation.

Not how it works, potency is a thing

Fire for example has potency 100 degrees vs 1000 degrees and so on

 

[Doggo]

Not really because unlike those masters, Manabu actually has skill feats and a skill chain

I was just about to go to sleep lol

Here;

• More skilled than her sister who has 3 martial arts (karate, judo and possibly aikido), can predict attacks via shoulder, leg and face movements, can think of strategies mid-fight (allowed her to get Ichika off-guard)
• Ibuki is more skilled than her and can win despite only having 1 MA and no prediction abilities (but can feint)
• Upscales Kanzaki who has a kid already was being considered in having a black belt in karate
• At age 14 Manabu was already a 4th dan in aikido and 5th dan in karate
• More skilled than Ryuen who created an original martial arts that impressed Ayanokouji, Ryuen also uses furniture and cheap shots at vitals, dirt/sand to blind the opponent
• More skilled than Nanase who is equal to suzune in skill
• More skilled than Housen who has been in many extremely dangerous fights (it's said that he "survived", so who knows, he might've been in life or death situations)
• Can block an attack while blinded

The only actual skill feat here, according to your logic is Suzune attempting to predict Amasawa's attacks.
Ibuki is weird cuz she should just have those abilities due to being better than Suzune
Ryuen makes no sense when that is just playing dirty
The rest are just statemetns
Him blocking Ryuen's attack without sight is just enhanced senses. but ig it could work


Miyagi has access to better techniques compared to Manabu here so skill might even out

 

[Crimsonobu]

Not how it works, potency is a thing

Fire for example has potency 100 degrees vs 1000 degrees and so on

That isn't related to what I'm saying. I'm saying Mr Miyagi doesn't have to have a feat indexed on his profile to resist fear inducement. He can just resist it via his personality and experience.

He's fought people with armed weapon while he was unarmed. Has always been shown to be brave and kind etc. None of these have to be indexed on the profile.

It'd be like arguing half monster Garou has to have a feat for fear inducement when we know he'd be thrilled by a situation where he's endangered.

 

[Crimsonobu]

Not really because unlike those masters, Manabu actually has skill feats and a skill chain

Masters IRL are superior to their students so there is a skill chain. Miyagi also has all his skill feats listed.

Whereas all Manabu has is being vastly inferior in martial arts with Miyagi being a master of several dozen martial arts. Manabu also has ANPR though so I'll give him that.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

The only actual skill feat here, according to your logic is Suzune attempting to predict Amasawa's attacks.

Knowing several martial arts is also a skill feat (though it vague on the level she has, i will give you that, but still adds versatility fr )

Manabu would also upscale her sister who managed to win against a severely injured Ichika with strategic thinking and planning (he is far more intelligent than her after all)

Ibuki is weird cuz she should just have those abilities due to being better than Suzune

Uh, no, you can outskill someone with ANPR without having it

Ryuen makes no sense when that is just playing dirty

Managed to impressed a martial genius like Koji btw

Enviromental usage is also a skill feat

The rest are just statemetns

Well 4th dan in aikido and 5th dan in karate at age 14 is straight up impossible IRL

along with being considered black belt level as a 10 year old minimum is also impossible IRL

Him blocking Ryuen's attack without sight is just enhanced senses. but ig it could work

My thoughts exactly

Miyagi has access to better techniques compared to Manabu here so skill might even out

Yes, he has better techniques but Manabu has better skill imo

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Masters IRL are superior to their students so there is a skill chain. Miyagi also has all his skill feats listed.

Whereas all Manabu has is being vastly inferior in martial arts with Miyagi being a master of several dozen martial arts. Manabu also has ANPR though so I'll give him that.

Look, my point is;

If a regular master best feat is FOR EXAMPLE, being able to do an average feat like, doing spin kicks and stuff

Then Miyabi upscaling this is just straight up trash

I want skill feats that are actually good from other characters that Miyabi upscales

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Manabu covered a 30+ year skill gap

With just 10 years (assuming he started MA training at age 4)

 

[Crimsonobu]

Look, my point is;

If a regular master best feat is FOR EXAMPLE, being able to do an average feat like, doing spin kicks and stuff

Then Miyabi upscaling this is just straight up trash

I want skill feats that are actually good from other characters that Miyabi upscales

Do you need to go look for feats when you can just search up IRL what actual masters of martial arts are capable of. I'm saying Miyagi is a master of many martial arts and superior to Manabu in martial arts since Manabu is being compared to these direct IRL counterparts. Otherwise his Dan achievements have no meaning?

Manabu analytical prediction is useful but it's literally given to him because he's superior to his sister in martial arts which is kind of funny

Predicting attacks via your body movement is standard martial arts thing and can be seen in the feats of Mr Miyagi section.

 

[Crimsonobu]

Manabu covered a 30+ year skill gap

With just 10 years (assuming he started MA training at age 4)

Mr Miyagi has never been hit his whole life either except an attack off guard whilst he was ill which is honestly more impressive in skill when he's fought several people in cqc at once and masters of superior martial arts to Manabu

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Do you need to go look for feats when you can just search up IRL what actual masters of martial arts are capable of.

All of them get straight up no concept of diffed by Manabu, what is your point here?

I'm saying Miyagi is a master of many martial arts and superior to Manabu in martial arts since Manabu is being compared to these direct IRL counterparts. Otherwise his Dan achievements have no meaning?

Quality > quantity

And even then, if Miyagi has more MA, that just means he has more versatility and not quality

Manabu analytical prediction is useful but it's literally given to him because he's superior to his sister in martial arts which is kind of funny

Predicting attacks via your body movement is standard martial arts thing and can be seen in the feats of Mr Miyagi section.

Crazy how he doesn't have ANPR in his profile (instead he has in his resistence section HAHA)

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Mr Miyagi has never been hit his whole life either except an attack off guard whilst he was ill which is honestly more impressive in skill when he's fought several people in cqc at once and masters of superior martial arts to Manabu

It's impressive sure, but like.. If none of them are as skilled as Manabu, then the quality just goes away

 

[Crimsonobu]

Voting Mr Miyagi. I don't think there's a specified amount of time until I can vote as I just checked the rules.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Voting Mr Miyagi. I don't think there's a specified amount of time until I can vote as I just checked the rules.

It's more like, both sides need to give all their arguments first before voting not that there isn't a timeframe

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Also, you saying IRL masters are above Manabu when they have no skill that is remotely close to Manabu is insanity

Basing off your scaling on belts instead of feats

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Nevertheless

Counted

 

[Crimsonobu]

Also, you saying IRL masters are above Manabu when they have no skill that is remotely close to Manabu is insanity

Basing off your scaling on belts instead of feats

Manabu is supposed to be impressive in verse because he has achievements such as 5th dan in karate/Akido which is insane for his age. You yourself said no one IRL can do what Manabu did showing your already comparing it to the IRL martial arts.

If Manabu is impressive for achieving this because no one in our world had achieved that as his age then your using his belt as a metric of how impressive it is.

Similarly Mr Miyagi's feat can be beating masters, fighting people with weapons whilst unarmed, and etc.

 

[Crimsonobu]

Mr Miyagi also has superior feats than Manabu anyway in the feat section...

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Manabu is supposed to be impressive in verse because he has achievements such as 5th dan in karate/Akido which is insane for his age. You yourself said no one IRL can do what Manabu did showing your already comparing it to the IRL martial arts.

If Manabu is impressive for achieving this because no one in our world had achieved that as his age then your using his belt as a metric of how impressive it is.

I am talking about how his learning ability and biomechanics is stupidly more advanced than people

He stomps Miyagi in this department

Similarly Mr Miyagi's feat can be beating masters, fighting people with weapons whilst unarmed, and etc.

Again, if these masters have average skill feats then him beating them is nothing impressive

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Mr Miyagi also has superior feats than Manabu anyway in the feat section...

"Mr. Miyagi stands as one of two of the best martial artists in the Miyagi-Verse. This would include Post-Timeskip Chozen who was able to easily best six martial arts simultaneously. His Miyagi-Do disciples whom were skilled enough to be recognized to the world stage martial arts competition. This would include far upscaling from John Kreese who is a military two-time karate champion. Mikes Barnes whom Miyagi easily bested in a single technique, when he was a young male feared national champion for martial arts in the USA. In addition to his fights, Mr. Miyagi shows his versatility to fight multiple opponents at once with ease, beating five Cobra Kai students, including Pre-Timeskip Johnny. He was able to casually beat up five grown men on one occasion casually. Then take down Chozen Toguchi along with two associates effortlessly"

Nothing in here is impressive when you haven't showned any feats for why this is the case, i can only assume these characters are either average or above average in fighting