All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread

[Entity]

Funnily enough, Urshani, your previous account, already tried to use this same ComicVine thread on PSW and got completely humiliated, so I would not bet on the logical soundness of those arguments.

Your problem is that you think you are smarter than everyone else, when these criticisms have been around since the early days of the site. You have not invented anything.

there is a problem here, he has already been banned

 

[Entity]

again, wouldn't it be more reasonable to assume that the correlation is maintained unless otherwise disproven instead of the other way around

Whis taking time to go from Beerus's planet to Earth and Instant Transmission being faster.
The ToP.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

I dont remember but wasnt his old VSBW account also perma banned or whatever?

lmaoo he got banned on this one too

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

I dont remember but wasnt his old VSBW account also perma banned or whatever?

Yeah, I think so.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Hey, why does manga Ultra Instinct Goku have Resistance to Illusion Creation for what is essentially a Tien Shinhan Saga feat and not Resistance whatsoever?

 

[AyOgUyS]

Hey, why does manga Ultra Instinct Goku have Resistance to Illusion Creation for what is a Tien Shinhan Saga feat and not Resistance whatsoever?

He does? I thought he had it from seeing through Moro’s illusions.

 

[MichaelCalistro]

Goku vs Goku REDUX • (0-3-0)

what huh dude I'm so confused now scaling chain calcs can be quite confusing sometimes, yeah

vsbattles.com

I have finally cleared out the confusions for everyone in my versus thread and finally fully established the rules one last time. I think we are all ready to be civil citizens now in this website, so my apologies everyone for losing for my head like that.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

He does? I thought he had it from seeing through Moro’s illusions.

Okay, my wording may have been misleadingly vague. I was comparing the "seeing through Moro's illusions" feat to the Tien Shinhan Saga feat, to clarify. Because they are virtually identical feats.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Tien Shinhan predicted where Goku would be based on the sound of his steps. Reason why we see the "Tap tap tap" before he realizes where Goku was. So there is no resistance, just an intelligence feat or analytical prediction if you wanna say it.

MUI Goku doesn't have sound to follow, or at least it isn't as explicit as Tien Shinhan's case.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

You're right, Goku doesn't have a sound cue. He has a Ki. Because he can sense Ki now. And has been able to for nearly three decades.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

I doubt a sorcerer like Moro won't mess with Ki sense when creating illusions, given that everyone and their mother can use Ki. And didn't he create illusions with Ki later when he copied Merus' power? That's why I didn't even consider that.

But yeah, MUI Goku Illusion Resistance feat seems kinda iffy to me.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

I doubt a sorcerer like Moro won't mess with Ki sense when creating illusions, given that everyone and their mother can use Ki. And didn't he create illusions with Ki later when he copied Merus' power? That's why I didn't even consider that.

But yeah, MUI Goku Illusion Resistance feat seems kinda iffy to me.

It's actually an expression plot point in this ark sensing ki is bot a common ablity in the wider universe. Granted moro was use to fighting gods so...

 

[HenshinIntervention]

Nobody in DB has infinite power, where did you get that from? Goku is 2-C because he affected two separate universe-sized space-time continuums, and that doesn’t even give him infinite power. If Goku really had infinite power, his ki wouldn’t get exhausted during fights.

Isn't destroying universes on this wiki superior to High 3-A which is already infinite power? It's listed on the FAQ that a normal space-time continuum, according to the site's standards, is composed of uncountably infinite points along the temporal axis.

"So, for a typical universe, it is a 3-A or three-dimensional structure of significant size collected as an uncountable infinite number of static snapshots through its time axis, making the space-time of the cosmology Low 2-C to fit all the possible universe iterations (3D+1)."

The entire basis of Hypertimelines scaling to 5D on this site relies on a "higher temporal axis" having another set of uncountably infinite snapshots on top of the normal space-time axis with its own uncountably infinite snapshots

"By having two axis, there must be an even higher-dimensional container, as every axis would add an uncountable infinite element to the cosmology, as there must be an uncountable infinite number of snapshots to an already uncountable infinite number of snapshots."

By the wiki's own standards, Goku needs to have infinite power. Otherwise he would not be able to affect "uncountably infinite" snapshots across the temporal axis, even discounting any 5D hypertimeline scaling. The fact that his tier is beyond High 3-A makes this apparent.

 

[Huesito88]

Isn't destroying universes on this wiki superior to High 3-A which is already infinite power? It's listed on the FAQ that a normal space-time continuum, according to the site's standards, is composed of uncountably infinite points along the temporal axis.

I think Ruffy means infinite power as in knowledge in verse as such not by feats or even Goku pulling off the "Kaioken times infinite".

 

[HenshinIntervention]

I think Ruffy means infinite power as in knowledge in verse as such not by feats or even Goku pulling off the "Kaioken times infinite".

The original question he replied to was about tiering/power

does dragon ball even consider any character having infinite power at all aside from like zeno? im not saying that db isn't 2-C in this site's standards, im just saying that maybe they just treat DB as like "goku can blow up universe 7 which has 3 universe sized realms by having lots of energy and multipliers, so hes multiversal" if you know what i mean.

The site's standards automatically makes Goku have infinite power because otherwise he wouldn't be 2-C on this site. So the question becomes kind of self-explanatory, yes he does on this site. I think skarfz was asking in terms of consistency in the DB franchise, like if they considered everyone to have infinite power there too besides Zeno.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

By the wiki's own standards, Goku needs to have infinite power.

You're so close to getting it.

 

[HenshinIntervention]

You're so close to getting it.

The point that I'm trying to make, which you clearly don't seem to get, is that there is a dissonance between the portrayal of Goku in his media vs Fandom VSBW Goku. VSBW Goku has infinite power by proxy, meanwhile DB Goku doesn't necessarily have infinite power but can affect multiple universes. Replying with a condescending comment won't hide that.

But this has more to do with the site's specifics for scaling to multiple universes (infinite power being required) rather than Goku not being 2-C (scaling to multiple universes).

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Didn't Kakarot state that Piccolo destroying the Moon was just an illusion he made? So there is no real feat in Kakarot

For the record, the "moon illusion" idea is only referenced once—in the Z Encyclopedia "Saiyan Saga Episode 3" Story appendix (ZCW_STORY_0002_APX1).
Never again.

Much like his father Goku, Gohan is capable of transforming into a Great Ape upon viewing a full moon. Similar to how Master Roshi destroyed the moon when Goku transformed, Piccolo destroys the moon when Gohan transforms—or so it seems. In truth, Piccolo creates an illusion in which the moon only appears to be destroyed.

Okay so,

1. Firstly, even within the Z Encyclopedia, which itself is a form of supplementary material, the appendixes are referred to "Notes" (in the English version) or Hosoku (in the Japanese version), which means "supplementary".
2. Secondly, Piccolo never has and does not have the power to create illusions, nor has such an ability ever been referenced outside of the singular instance, which more likely than not is—in of itself—a very shitty allusion to the events of DBZ episode 18, wherein Gohan's tail regrows, Goku's old Attack Ball projects a hologram of the moon, and Piccolo has to cut off a Great Ape Gohan's tail.
3. Thirdly, the moon being destroyed is referenced throughout the Saiyan Saga portion of the game by various NPCs ("The moon just... vanished...", "Unbelievable. The moon's gone...", "Without a moon, my wish is never going to come true.", etc.).
4. Piccolo says he'd "better get rid of it now".
5. Saiyans become Great Apes by absorbing Blutz Waves reflected off of the moon. Simply preventing a Saiyan from being able to see and visualize the moon does not prevent the very real Blutz Waves from entering their eyes and being absorbed.
6. Vegeta references the moon being destroyed.
7. The moon does not reappear after Piccolo dies, which should be impossible if Piccolo simply cast a illusion over its image.
8. The Story entry the appendix is attached to outright states Piccolo destroys the moon.
9. Every other official source of information states Piccolo destroyed the moon.
10. The moon being destroyed is fully animated.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Say dose the moon ever come back from this? Is there ever a formal explanation for how that happens? Maybe that's why they added that..

 

[Skarfz]

i
think skarfz was asking in terms of consistency in the DB franchise, like if they considered everyone to have infinite power there too besides Zeno.

Yes, but im somehow capable of being vague on every word i say

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Well, Kami restored the moon after Jackie Chun destroyed it, so it stands to reason he probably restored it after Piccolo destroyed it. I'm pretty sure the moon is only ever shown again after the Saiyan Saga by the time Frieza and King Cold approach Earth, which is well over a year after Kami was resurrected.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Isn't destroying universes on this wiki superior to High 3-A which is already infinite power? It's listed on the FAQ that a normal space-time continuum, according to the site's standards, is composed of uncountably infinite points along the temporal axis.

The entire basis of Hypertimelines scaling to 5D on this site relies on a "higher temporal axis" having another set of uncountably infinite snapshots on top of the normal space-time axis with its own uncountably infinite snapshots

By the wiki's own standards, Goku needs to have infinite power. Otherwise he would not be able to affect "uncountably infinite" snapshots across the temporal axis, even discounting any 5D hypertimeline scaling. The fact that his tier is beyond High 3-A makes this apparent.

I think Ruffy means infinite power as in knowledge in verse as such not by feats or even Goku pulling off the "Kaioken times infinite".

In my view, infinite power means a character is 2-A and can destroy infinite universes or timelines infinite with their punches.

My view, because I think affecting infinite universes and infinite timelines requires infinite power (I'm not using anything from the Wiki, it's just my opinion).

 

[Skarfz]

Low multiversal should be the "multiverse level" for 3D characters

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I hate how, in the very few instances any of the female fighters are referenced, official supplementary material near-exclusively describes how cute and how peppy they are and how head-over-heels they are with their respective love interests; or, if I'm lucky, how their skills are adequate enough to pass the preliminaries of the Budokai. I already know how ******* cute and peppy Chi-Chi and Videl are; I've read the ******* manga.

 

[supertomioka]

Been thinking does IZ get "eventually type 1 concept" or whatever for wanting to justice or something

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

DBS does not have type 1 concepts, so even if he became the concept of justice itself, nah. The only part of DB with type 1 concept, afaik, is DBH. Even DBGT only has type 3 or 2 idk

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

Been thinking does IZ get "eventually type 1 concept" or whatever for wanting to justice or something

Assuming he would become a concept, it'd prob be just type 2

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

DBS does not have type 1 concepts, so even if he became the concept of justice itself, nah. The only part of DB with type 1 concept, afaik, is DBH. Even DBGT only has type 3 or 2 idk

Funny how time and space are stated to be a concept in the series cânon, and they shape reality. Infinite Zamasu should get Type 1 for having become the space-time continuum itself.

 

[AyOgUyS]

Funny how time and space are stated to be a concept in the series cânon, and they shape reality.

I'm curious, where is this stated?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I'm curious, where is this stated?

 

[Vietthai96]

 

[Mgebrat282]

DBS does not have type 1 concepts, so even if he became the concept of justice itself, nah. The only part of DB with type 1 concept, afaik, is DBH. Even DBGT only has type 3 or 2 idk

Shouldn't evil ki, god ki and other things be like in DBH because of the shared worldview?

 

[SomebodyData]

Shouldn't evil ki, god ki and other things be like in DBH because of the shared worldview?

Is this an actual thing with the shared worldview cosmology of Dragon Ball?

 

[Gamin_Yoon23]

Shouldn't evil ki, god ki and other things be like in DBH because of the shared worldview?

No. Unless they’re clearly extrapolated to that extent then it shouldn’t be equated. Shared worldview isn’t all encompassing in terms of equalising elements from varied continuities. We still need to be mindful when making these judgements. God Ki in mainline isn’t extrapolated to the extent of Games’ verse, nor is evil Ki. The only scenario where I could see such a thing being allowed is assuming a statement comes through clarifying such. DBH gets the full benefits due to its composition. Not vice versa.

Edit, I feel like I might’ve misinterpreted you but I think you made an error. DBH by default would have access to statements or any material that resides from DBH. If it’s contradicted it would be reasonably dismissed.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Is this an actual thing with the shared worldview cosmology of Dragon Ball?

No, DBS doesn't scale up on DBH, DBH is too contradictory for the canon.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Shouldn't evil ki, god ki and other things be like in DBH because of the shared worldview?

Shared worldview is just for cosmology, abilities between continuities are not shared

 

[KaramcaS]

Shouldn't evil ki, god ki and other things be like in DBH because of the shared worldview?

Toriyama didnt wrote the DBH. Games are written by others. Choosed Fans wrote and drew the DBH Manga.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Shared worldview is just for cosmology, abilities between continuities are not shared

the land of half measures, i love it.

 

[Omegabronic]

Shouldn't evil ki, god ki and other things be like in DBH because of the shared worldview?

isn't the most recent thread removing that?

 

[Mgebrat282]

No. Unless they’re clearly extrapolated to that extent then it shouldn’t be equated. Shared worldview isn’t all encompassing in terms of equalising elements from varied continuities.

Why not? It's either shared or not, there is no between logically. The verse is connected or not

We still need to be mindful when making these judgements. God Ki in mainline isn’t extrapolated to the extent of Games’ verse, nor is evil Ki. The only scenario where I could see such a thing being allowed is assuming a statement comes through clarifying such. DBH gets the full benefits due to its composition. Not vice versa.

Okay, like what statement? You want a character to say what?