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Bro, people aready accepted Ichigo falling through terminal velocity was too much. Accept there’s a new guy in town that can down grade Bleach as he pleases. A well known moderate of Bleach via Damage is happy these threads apply
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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion
- Thread starter Zoro21043
- Start date
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Yeah, first order of things is to get rid of this thing for being just flat out wrong, then remake the powerscalling completely, then properly set the distance to the palace and speed.
vsbattles.com
Bleach Big Calc problems
This is regarding Reiokyu-Seireitei Distance, it has quite some issues Before going into it, some things to keep in mind, Soul Society is stated to parallel the World of the Living, and is shown to clearly have space (both things are accepted as far as I'm aware, but I wanted to give additional...
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You’d think with the distance it’s at right now Yhwach could’ve flown up there no problem lol. Doesn’t matter. The staff of this place is a joke tbh.Yeah, first order of things is to get rid of this thing for being just flat out wrong, then remake the powerscalling completely, then properly set the distance to the palace and speed.
Bleach Big Calc problems
This is regarding Reiokyu-Seireitei Distance, it has quite some issues Before going into it, some things to keep in mind, Soul Society is stated to parallel the World of the Living, and is shown to clearly have space (both things are accepted as far as I'm aware, but I wanted to give additional...
PizzaDante67
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I think that a Cero's speed depends on its user honestly (dunno if they are regarded as equally fast for everyone here tho) . Obviously not buying the whole "Cero's are Lightspeed" thing and never did. There are better and more consistent ways of getting Bleach to and above Lightspeed anyway so.
ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn
He/Him- 3,889
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Honestly, it's probably a good thing that Ceros are not considered light speed since they would just limit the speed of most of the series.
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It's not just that, it's that if you just fly up you will never reach the palace but outer space, it's like thinking you can reach Reverse London by digging because the characters use a downwards elevator, you are just going to end up in China.
So the thread's whole argument is just inarguably wrong, including the Grimmjow statements and trying to ignore the manga's information about travel time.
Which is actually the same in the anime if you pay attention to when he leaves and when he gets to the Seireitei anyway.
Saqphire
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Is that really a bad thing tho? The high/god tiers clearly scale far above Ceros and Balas like Base Aizen and above so
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That thread is amazingly bad and should have been immediately trashed when the scan of Yamamoto explaining reiokyu was posted, you are changing the profiles just to reset them again soon.
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What are you talking about, the currently accepted method has nothing to do with what you're saying, the distance wasn't capped at 50km in the end, did you even read the thread?
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I find it rather funny that the original op was that the distance was too large because of clouds and something about outer space.
Yet the new distance is 5000km. Still in “outer space” with clouds haha.
Yet the new distance is 5000km. Still in “outer space” with clouds haha.
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What are you talking about, the currently accepted method has nothing to do with what you're saying, the distance wasn't capped at 50km in the end, did you even read the thread?
The reasoning for the changes of the old calcs is faulty, so there was no reason to go back to the other methods to represent the distance.
Using the stairs is hilarious because they where never supposed to be used, we are told they are just mean to troll Ichigo
MillenniumSunny
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I’m pretty sure there is actually a calc putting the Soul Society planet at a much larger size than Earth based on the horizon
Not quite sure why them being parallel worlds means the planets have to be the same size
Not quite sure why them being parallel worlds means the planets have to be the same size
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From a lore perspective they should be similar, the Royal Palace just works like Muken, an infinite dimension below the 1st squad the can only be reached trough an elevator.
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The distance is not coming back to millions of km bro
(unless Kubo comes out and says that) That part was agreed pretty much unanimously
?
???
Rodriiogo
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Yet another issue with a Bleach Calc - Ichigo reflects all the blades from Senbonzakura
The calculation in question is this one with the feat being that Ichigo swats away all the blades from Senbonzakura which has one hundred million blades. The feat itself is fine and has no issue, however the issue is how the calculation is made, specifically in how it gets the amount of petals...
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Ain’t gonna lie, y’all weird. 
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It's clear that having the profiles being fixed and having a proper scaling chain is not a concern, so I'm done with speed.
PizzaDante67
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Yeah y‘all doing it on purpose at this point.
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The distance is not coming back to millions of km bro
That part was agreed pretty much unanimously
There's no argument against it so no reason not to, the agreement is just based on lack of knowledge about the series.
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Hello guys. Seeing as I'm new here, how long should I wait before I get involved in content revision threads?
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At this im wondering when the Kiko-Oh 38.94 Teratons calc is getting nuked,since that break like all of the post society scaling outside of the God tiers and the Possibly 4-A guys.
True Shikai Ichigo control over his AP will get funnier than ever,holding back enough that post auswhalen Askin only skids back from getting hit shall become funnier than ever.
At what point will the god tiers be deemed outliers btw?
True Shikai Ichigo control over his AP will get funnier than ever,holding back enough that post auswhalen Askin only skids back from getting hit shall become funnier than ever.
At what point will the god tiers be deemed outliers btw?
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I mean, you can do a crt/participate in a crt whenever you like, but if you meant generally as an advice, you can just spectate a few crts for some time, learn the rules and all
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lol Bankai Ichigo is slower than OrihimeYet another issue with a Bleach Calc - Ichigo reflects all the blades from Senbonzakura
The calculation in question is this one with the feat being that Ichigo swats away all the blades from Senbonzakura which has one hundred million blades. The feat itself is fine and has no issue, however the issue is how the calculation is made, specifically in how it gets the amount of petals...
This is a joke of course. Calculations vary from time to time. Give it a couple years and these calcs will likely be lost to the past, just as every previous calc from every verse has. @Mommyleona for what it’s worth, and I know this isn’t your calc, but I respect you for putting forth your own opinions for speed of Bleach
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Did a quick estimation, Ichigo thinks he would take half a day going at his fastest to traverse the distance it’d take a week with Shunpo. This puts TS Ichigo at about 480m/s for his fastest speed. @Mommyleona doesn’t this contradict every speed calc there is considering these are stated times by two reliable characters?
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That CRT is atrocious, no hate to the OP. Even the time frame of the travel in the original calc was still supported by the anime, the only difference is the red filter in cour 2 which makes every thing hard to see lol. I will personally tear down the arguments the CRT made in a new one myself if some one doesn't do so soon but i am still caught up on other AP calcs. By the way i have finished the seretei calc and i will do a crt on it soon just want some calc mods to take a look at it before i post it anywhere but i might do it tomorrow if all goes well.
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The speed ichigo used to cross the dome of the seretei to the ground multiplied by the original time frame is currently the best method i can rn since there is no calc staking or assumptions
Arkenis
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Hey has anyone ever thought the chrysalis stage is just the Hogyoku fighting for Aizen? I only ask cuz Aizen says he can finally watch the end of the ss with his own eyes, meaning he wasn't the one perceiving the fight? Idk but the purple eye change makes it interesting. Maybe he was just watching through it or something lol
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Technically, during Aizen's 2nd Fusion, he existed as that weird purple energy, while the so-called Chrysalis was the Hogyoku's power wrapped around him.
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Regarding this thread:
vsbattles.com
It seems like everyone's missed that the real feat here is Uryu being able to perceive movement in 1/1,100,000-1/1,300,000 of a second. People argued that it was a sensing feat, thus unquantifiable, but if you look at the raws, it becomes clear that Uryu was talking about his (spiritual) perception/sight:
My translation:
Right speech bubble (top right):
クインシーは 霊圧知覚が 高くてねKuinshī wa reiatsu chikaku ga takakute ne" Quincy have high spiritual pressure perception, you see"
見たところ 君の羽根表面の 霊子振動は 秒間110〜130万Mita tokoro kimi no hane hyōmen no reishi shindō wa byōkan hyakujū〜hyakusanjū man" From what I can see, the reishi vibration on the surface of your wings is 1.1 to 1.3 million per second"
Left speech bubble:
ゼーレシュナイダーの 半分以下だZēreshunaidā no hanbun ika da" That's less than half of a Seele Schneider"
Shunsui explains what reiatsu chikaku/spiritual pressure perception is here:
The raws say the same thing; feel free to check. Uryu can see the oscillations, he says as much. A minimum perception time is what you'd want to extrapolate perception blitz feats.
Problem with a Bleach calc (I got one more in me)
This is about Uryu's reaction?/perception? calc I'm unsure if it can be considered valid to begin with, since Ishida isn't seeing those cycles, he's just able to roughly sense them, therefore I think it shouldn't be considered a speed feat for Uryu at all But in case it's still considered some...
It seems like everyone's missed that the real feat here is Uryu being able to perceive movement in 1/1,100,000-1/1,300,000 of a second. People argued that it was a sensing feat, thus unquantifiable, but if you look at the raws, it becomes clear that Uryu was talking about his (spiritual) perception/sight:
My translation:
Right speech bubble (top right):
クインシーは 霊圧知覚が 高くてねKuinshī wa reiatsu chikaku ga takakute ne" Quincy have high spiritual pressure perception, you see"
見たところ 君の羽根表面の 霊子振動は 秒間110〜130万Mita tokoro kimi no hane hyōmen no reishi shindō wa byōkan hyakujū〜hyakusanjū man" From what I can see, the reishi vibration on the surface of your wings is 1.1 to 1.3 million per second"
Left speech bubble:
ゼーレシュナイダーの 半分以下だZēreshunaidā no hanbun ika da" That's less than half of a Seele Schneider"
Shunsui explains what reiatsu chikaku/spiritual pressure perception is here:
The raws say the same thing; feel free to check. Uryu can see the oscillations, he says as much. A minimum perception time is what you'd want to extrapolate perception blitz feats.
Rodriiogo
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How are people still crying about that thread, it didn't even use 50km or anything as it was proposed, it was accepted to use the time-frame that is actually stated and never contradicted which is Tenjiro's statement about it taking a week with Shunpo as it is the only stated time-frame we have that doesn't involve immense calc-stacking or assumptions. And no the time-frame was never "supported in the anime" since the entire "support" to that time-frame was a clock in the background when Kubo doesn't even focuses/does his backgrounds most of the time alongside the fact that the anime removed it.
The fact that people that are even trying to imply Base Yhwach with his Reiatsu calmly launches himself upwards to the palace way over 10x faster (Since Yhwach takes way less than 6000 seconds, most likely not even an hour considering the amount of stuff he does while the 6000 seconds timer is still going) than an Ichigo who was rushing down and desperate to reach as fast as he could even saying he landed "a bit too fast" and don't see the issue in what they are claiming is baffling to me.
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Yhwach used a technique to travel up. That alone should tell you that his normal flight speed was not enough.
The fact that Ichigo took around 20 chapters to travel down, while certain attacks crossed that distance in literally one panel of a single chapter, should already show how massive the difference is between travel speed and attack speed.
So complaining that certain attacks are “too fast” to reach that distance is not really an argument when the narrative portrays them that way.
If the distance were short, Ichigo would have reached the bottom in the next chapter, but he did not. The fact that certain attacks, or Yhwach himself, reached that distance so quickly proves how massively faster those techniques or attacks are compared to Ichigo’s normal travel speed.
But anyway, I have planned some calcs to fix this.
PizzaDante67
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Or, now this might be crazy, people just know that Yhwach isnt using his own Travel speed but rather a technique as @Infinite9Luck already said. Its also crazy how yall go and make speed crts when people here are already on their way to fix the speed rating and have said so like month ago.
Arkenis
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Just what the forums become for the HST.
Rodriiogo
He/Him- 1,296
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First off, I acknowledge that.
It doesn't make it any less dumb, really.
Second off,
No it doesn't mean that, it just means he wanted to get there as fast as he wanted just like Ichigo did, they both were going as fast as they could, that simple.
Interesting how you left out that, in the main canon (the anime), the travel that Ichigo does and the travel Yhwach does takes the almost same exact time if u wanna use episodes as time-frames so this is indeed not a good example:
- Ichigo's travel starts at the beginning Episode 19 (01:23) and ends it at around the middle of Episode 21 (07:45).
- Yhwach's travel starts at the end of Episode 21 (22:32) and ends it at at the end of Episode 23 (23:45).
- Ichigo took exactly 2 episodes and 6 minutes 22 seconds to reach the palace.
- Yhwach took exactly 2 episodes and 1 minute 13 seconds to reach the palace.
The narrative does indeed never portray Yhwach's Reiatsu to be able to launch him that fast and only Auswahlen from Base Yhwach (as Darkness is NOT base Yhwach) ever is portrayed to be something that fast because it is specifically an exception due to how it works. If we go by the current scaling even ignoring how it's combat speed, Auswahlen is 2000x faster than Base Yhwach's R/C is.
- Over 5 thousand kilometers is NOT short, it'd still take almost 5 HOURS for someone that is moving at the speed of sound to do that travel, I genuinely think powerscaling is kinda messing with people's brains a bit if 0.46x the diameter of the earth is being called a "short" distance. No offense but c'mon man they are basically traveling the radius of the earth and you are calling it a short distance, there's really nothing wrong with it being 5 thousand kms but people just want big higher number because wank.
- Literally only Auswahlen is shown as being that fast which is something literally no one scales to directly, again Darkness is not from Base Yhwach, do not mention it.
Kk, goodluck with that (serious).
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Rodriiogo
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Already answered the other to Luck himself but for the CRT part, it's literally no one's fault that basically all calcs for speed are just wrong. You can't "fix the speed rating" while keeping the calculations as they were because guess what, they were wrong. I'm not trying to critique anyone here, but the CRTs aren't an issue and do not change the "fixing speed rating" idea, it just fixes it more by removing the wanked calcs. The multipliers and in-verse chainscale isn't changing just because the value of the calc is now "X" times smaller.
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When we say he doesn't focus on backgrounds, we are talking about scale and perspectives, not general information and wasn't it in a recent thread that it was still his backgrounds used to override a narrative statement so now you wanna sit behind the very arguments that failed against it here lmao?? Also even if we said he could use shunpo to take a week that just makes your arguments even more invalid , he can go far beyond the likes of shunsui who can cross 13 miles in one step back in the ss arc and ichibei in over 3000 km, as well as the bambies capable of percieving their arrows fly at lightning speeds and ichigo massively perception blitzes them so why the hell would the stairs even direct his movement when both he and tenjiro can air walk and flash step at the same time and both he and tenjiro knows this? ichigo also invalidates his estimate and tells him he can cross that distance in 12 hours and tenjiro doesn't argue with him. if ichigo gifted ahh saw clouds and still said it would take him half a day to reach the ground when he has heard what tenjiro said, experienced the journey himself and is literally looking down and the man with the extra genius intelligence doesn't disagree and is at awe of how far ichigo has gotten stronger ALSO sees those clouds it would already dismiss HALF the arguments made in that thread. There are several other arguments i can make that will continue to destroy your arguments but i will save those for the eventual CRT i will make after i am done with the seretei upgrade (if it gets accepted ) which is coming on monday so we will continue this afterwards.
Maybe it would be less baffling if you saw the episode and realize that yhwach didn't use his own speed?? It was a technique he used that took he, uryu and jugram to the royal palace in a short time and wouldnt scale to his actual travel speed, you forget that yhwach has been planning this for centuries to kill the reio he having a means to cross that distance should make far more sense than it wouldn't, you would agree?
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You are right here at least, the previous calc wasn't solid i was going to change it myself if no one did anyway, so yeah the previous had to go but the current one is also not a good replacement.
Rodriiogo
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Genuinely what are you trying to say. And the point of that thread was that backgrounds can override visuals when they are consistently the case. Using a clock in the background as a STATED SPEED is beyond dumb yes.
All that you mentioned would be calc stacking within the wiki rules, I'm not denying Ichigo is faster than the calc says, and if you wanna say off-site that he should be faster and so the distance is like millions of kms then wtv go ahead, I'm saying that taking wiki rules into account, the best solution was already made which was the 1 week + stairs + subsonic speeds.
As for the stairs, you think they summoned the chairs just to tell Ichigo "jump"? It was kinda obvious that they intended him to go through the stairs, he just jumped when he got told about the invasion already starting hours ago so he had to just rush which is why he even crashes way faster than he expected and says he was a little too fast.
Cause the point is that Ichigo is saying he is way faster than the estimate Tenjiro is doing because of the training, that doesn't change the fact that normally it'd take a week to reach seireitei by the stairs with shunpo, Ichigo is just way faster now so he is confident he can do it in half a day.
As I said:
I watched the scene and said this so you don't need to tell me that, the rest of the response for this point is already in Luck's so I won't repeat.
Anyways goodluck with that as well for you (srs again).
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First off, it is never stated anywhere that the anime is always right and the manga is wrong now.
The anime simply does not show it. In the two episodes you mention, the events basically happen in the anime while, in the manga, Yhwach was already there.
In the manga, Yhwach is already up there within the SAME chapter. The anime simply does not show him and presents the events in a different order.
You cannot talk to me about author intent while avoiding the manga, which was literally drawn by the author himself, and instead using the anime, which involves cinematic and pace changes. The author who draw the manga made Yhwach reach up there within the same chapter, but took 20 for Ichigo. Doesn't that tell you something? Be honest.
The anime doesn't even necessary contradict it anyway, since it decides to simply display events in different orders.
I personally did not say it was short. If you read my message again, I never said that. The value I proposed was only around three times higher.
What I am saying is that Ichigo taking that long is intentional, in the same way that certain techniques or attacks being extremely fast is also intentional.
But you started by defending the thread and saying that 50 km made sense, even though it is contradicted by basically every dialogue and narrative event. The current calc was reached because the thread reached that conclusion, but for you 50 km was fair, despite the fact that it would ignore common sense about either Ichigo’s speed or the one-week Shunpo statement or the fact that both the manga and novel says it is a dimensional space, so it is not like if you fly in outer space you find it.
