Top 15 Strongest Non-Smurfs for Every Tier Continuation 4.0

[DaReaperMan]

Since Kuuga's Civilian Form is what is started with, the combat speed of said civilian form is what would be equalized to. So Athletic Human vs Hypersonic is the difference here.

 

[Nonynho]

Since Kuuga's Civilian Form is what is started with, the combat speed of said civilian form is what would be equalized to. So Athletic Human vs Hypersonic is the difference here.

From what i got of his arguments, it's his intermediate form he starts with, no?

 

[Arcker123]

Due to this one having no layers described

Her range is too short. They just immediately neg her with their own hax due to that

 

[Nonynho]

Her range is too short. They just immediately neg her with their own hax due to that

Sorry, who are you defending?

 

[Arcker123]

Sorry, who are you defending?

Dishonored

the only reason I bother in this thread

 

[Nonynho]

Dishonored

the only reason I bother in this thread

Cool (i'll be playing the games, maybe not anytime soon, but it fetched my interest)

The problem is that Corvo and etc have to look at her to execute techniques, which immediately, as the fight begins, passively, triggers Disturbing Presence, which needs 15 layers of resisting stuff there to counter

 

[Arcker123]

The problem is that Corvo and etc have to look at her to execute techniques, which immediately, as the fight begins, passively, triggers Disturbing Presence, which needs 15 layers of resisting stuff there to counter

The effect can start at the beginning sure. But the fighter will "spawn" much farther than the effects range.

All someone like Delilah has to do is think and then they're incapped from a much farther range. The Dishonored characters can win the fight before the passives even become a factor.

 

[Nonynho]

But the fighter will "spawn" much farther than the effects range.

Yeah, no.

Corvo spawns at Hundreds of Meters, the end of his effective range for guns and crossbows, which obviously need aiming
Emily's, Daud's, Granny Rags' and Billie Lurk's profiles follow the same tendency, a need to aim, look in general

Delilah, as you mentioned, has indeed a higher range than the other characters, though it follows the same problem, as it is indexed as her life manipulation being with kilometers of range and only that...

• Life Manipulation and Duplication (An ability to impose one's own will upon inanimate objects to interact with them and allowing them to move even if they normally can't, like statues, allowing one to create duplicates of themselves)

...Which clearly does not matter for this fight, and whenever she has the range to attempt using any magic at all, Liz would already be at a perceivable tens of meters of range

Besides no magic being indicated as thought based as you said and the only absurd ranges being with preparation which she can't access here

 

[Shadowslash125]

So, if it is a typical behaviour for his first thing to do be transform
And Liz' will be to approach

iirc transforming and teleporting are actions that aren't mutually exclusive, so he can probably just tp while transforming honestly

And they're at equal speed, meaning they highly upscale from 3,157.89473683 m/s (the only calc i found on Kuuga's page), meaning it should take less than 1.2s for her to reach his exact position...

Although, his teleportation is actually instantaneous, so it'd be faster for him to teleport away from her than for her to get to his exact point. Also 4km distance, and iirc only combat speed gets equalised, so her travel speed would still be the same and take a while to get close to him.

And for him to see her while she does that, she should take way less. And from what we can see, the transformation isn't exactly instantaneous, so before he can use his plasma manip inside her, she's already in his sight's range

Second misconception is that he can still use plasma in his intermediate form, it's just that he unlocks planetary range when he becomes perfect form. He also changes speed ratings iirc but idk how that's handled in speed equal since him usually transforming into perfect form isn't available due to normal vsbw constraints.

So basically, him teleporting is instantaneous and while his transformation isn't instant, both of these abilities are thought-based, meaning no action is required of him to use said abilities. The only action required is for him to raise his hand, and he should even be able to to do all three at once btw. Teleport while transforming while raising his hand.

that is all not saying that if he can sense her in his ultimate form with his increased sight he's very likely already cooked from the beginning

That's Kuuga, not Daguva. Daguva is:

• Additional Enhanced Senses and Extrasensory Perception (Awareness, Hearing, Smell, Vision【Neutral, Telescopic, Infrared, Ultraviolet & Microvision】; As Pegasus Form, in addition to sensory fuctions such as sight, hearing, and smell, the mental faculties such as judgment and insight are also enhanced, being even able to see and track invisible beings from kilometers away. His vision becomes thousands of times better than humans, including the ability of viewing ultraviolet rays, infrared rays and electromagnetic waves in the visible range, and his hearing becomes thousands of times better than human, with the ability of hearing ultrasonic waves. He can use his keen senses to detect Me·Galme·Re who blending into the surroundings)

(Despite being a rip from the Kuuga page)

 

[Nonynho]

That's Kuuga, not Daguva. Daguva is:
(Despite being a rip from the Kuuga page)

That reinforces what i said about he being perceiving her before attacking

It's pretty standard for you to look to who you're attacking

 

[Lou_change]

So I looked at the High 8-C list

1. Characters from Kral Şakir

2. Henry Stickmin / Toujou Karuna

3. Choi Yoon-seok / Deathmaster Snikch

4. Anri

5. F (Alphabet)

6. Mardicus

7. Korosensei

8. Bunny

9. Brandon Heat

10. Dio

11. Ryukendo

12. Player (Fart Attack)

13. Characters from Parahumans (Leviathan, Khonsu and The Simurgh)

First why is Player (Fart Attack), Ryukendo, and Brandon Heat doing here

Leviathan gets 4 kilometers worth of space to build up water to just tsunami them, only Brandon can handle Khonsu aging them to death but he can be trapped in a time field and while he could still shoot he can get past the regeneration and durability of Khonsu which is basically incap, none of them can handle The Simurgh's range, M class telekinesis, and mind hax.

Dio can't truly harm them and none of his ways to ignore durability work so. Khonsu does get to keep Dio in a time field until sunrise unless Dio becomes able to stop time forever before that point, the other two basically do the same thing they did before.

Bunny can't hurt truly hurt them either so I think she loses the war of attrition because they can harm her more consistently and The Simurgh just mind haxs without killing her.

Korosensei his mind hax might be layered enough to work however the also seems to be meant to work on humans specifically and he gets walled until he dies.

 

[Minaaaa]

First why is Player (Fart Attack), Ryukendo, and Brandon Heat doing here

Someone nominated them #me

 

[Shadowslash125]

That reinforces what i said about he being perceiving her before attacking

It's pretty standard for you to look to who you're attacking

Again, you don't technically have to actually see your opponent as long as you can hear, smell or sense them. Which helps Daguva more when he already knows the general direction she'd be in, and that's kinda enough as is.
So like if it's tens of meters SBA (it probably isn't but eh), his hearing is enough to know where she is to just ignite her.
If it's 4km, he can easily tp out of there and transform into his perfect form before setting her on fire.

So yea, Liz doesn't get past Daguva. Speed equal, or otherwise.

 

[Nonynho]

Again, you don't technically have to actually see your opponent as long as you can hear, smell or sense them. Which helps Daguva more when he already knows the general direction she'd be in, and that's kinda enough as is.

Look at who you're fighting against is a typical behaviour, so long as they're in the range of your senses it is not feasible to say that it won't just happen
And by the description of his enhanced senses, it is indeed likely that he'll be seeing her soon enough, since you said it is a typical behaviour to TP

So like if it's tens of meters SBA (it probably isn't but eh), his hearing is enough to know where she is to just ignite her.

SBA says if 4km brings too much of an advantage to one side, we can discuss another distance, but at any distance his senses go, he's f*ed
Knowing her general direction doesn't work since she can react to his attacks, as he would only be able to use the internal ones when he senses her

If it's 4km, he can easily tp out of there and transform into his perfect form before setting her on fire.

If his senses reach her and it is said they're all enhanced in a way we can fairly assume it is equally, then he will be looking at her and be gg'd

 

[Shadowslash125]

Look at who you're fighting against is a typical behaviour, so long as they're in the range of your senses it is not feasible to say that it won't just happen
And by the description of his enhanced senses, it is indeed likely that he'll be seeing her soon enough, since you said it is a typical behaviour to TP

For reference, this is just how far Kuuga is able to hear from the sky to the ground. Keep in mind that he heard the footsteps of an invisible enemy first before looking at him. This is his power in base Pegasus, since Daguva's ability in sensing should be the same level as Rising Pegasus, which is far stronger in this aspect than base Pegasus.

Why is this important? Daguva has the general sense of her direction, and can hear her footsteps as she approaches him. He doesn't really need to glance at anyone to start setting Liz on fire. It'd normally be the standard in a fight, but who is he to entertain someone who doesn't really bring anything to the table that he mildly even cares about? This is the exact behaviour he had when he burned 30000 civilians around him and Kuuga, all the while he was just taunting him. I have explained that he has something that Daguva wants to the point of toying with him. He's not going to extend the same behaviour to anyone else.

Keep in mind that this is also the same guy who was untraceable despite leaving all his carnage behind for everyone to see for 90% of the entire show. Daguva doesn't need to be seen for anyone not worthy of his time.

SBA says if 4km brings too much of an advantage to one side, we can discuss another distance, but at any distance his senses go, he's f*ed
Knowing her general direction doesn't work since she can react to his attacks, as he would only be able to use the internal ones when he senses her

Hearing across kilometres go brr. As I've said, if it isn't 4kms, she's fried instantly. The 4km has the added time of him needing to transform to use his planetary range on her, which is basically just delaying the inevitable.

If his senses reach her and it is said they're all enhanced in a way we can fairly assume it is equally, then he will be looking at her and be gg'd

Say it with me now.
Hearing go brr.

 

[Nonynho]

Why is this important? Daguva has the general sense of her direction, and can hear her footsteps as she approaches him.

She's a spectrum that floats in the air so he won't be hearing footsteps lol

Sorry for not being able to pull up an image for the profile

And also if his senses can go that far, why in the name of f* wouldn't he look at who he's fighting against?

 

[Lynieryz]

She's a spectrum that floats in the air so he won't be hearing footsteps lol

Sorry for not being able to pull up an image for the profile

And also if his senses can go that far, why in the name of f* wouldn't he look at who he's fighting against?

She should also have teleportation as an energy entity, but the elements page doesn't have scans for the abilities, so it's not currently usable.

 

[Nonynho]

She should also have teleportation as an energy entity, but the elements page doesn't have scans for the abilities, so it's not currently usable.

AFAIK she'd have to know the ritual to do it, but yeah

 

[Bobsican]

So, in 1-C, I'd want to nominate characters from Kingdom Hearts (Sora, Xehanort, Lingering Will) for the 5th slot, more specifically Sonic characters don't seem to have a proper way around High-Godly junk, and KH characters pack other stuff like eventual type 1 Concept / type 2 Info Existence Erasure with every attack + BFR to a 11-C state, passive Fate hax, Nonexistent Physiology, Time Stop, and a ton of other hax like mind hax, corruption and type 3 madness, as well as resistances to such with KH Light and Darkness.

Also remove Sora from Low 1-C, he's now 1-C.

 

[Dragonite007]

So, in 1-C, I'd want to nominate characters from Kingdom Hearts (Sora, Xehanort, Lingering Will) for the 5th slot, more specifically Sonic characters don't seem to have a proper way around High-Godly junk, and KH characters pack other stuff like eventual type 1 Concept / type 2 Info Existence Erasure with every attack + BFR to a 11-C state, passive Fate hax, Nonexistent Physiology, Time Stop, and a ton of other hax like mind hax, corruption and type 3 madness, as well as resistances to such with KH Light and Darkness.

Also remove Sora from Low 1-C, he's now 1-C.

Chaanged

 

[Dragonite007]

Well...

What Qin Mu (8-B) can do againt being erased of the history by Provedor?

 

[Shadowslash125]

And also if his senses can go that far, why in the name of f* wouldn't he look at who he's fighting against?

I wonder why...

This only applies if he's playing with his food (only for Kuuga since he specifically wanted something out of him) or have specific business with someone. Anyone else don't really deserve the time for him to observe and whatnot (unless said person actively resists bursting into plasma fire).

who is he to entertain someone who doesn't really bring anything to the table that he mildly even cares about? This is the exact behaviour he had when he burned 30000 civilians around him and Kuuga, all the while he was just taunting him. I have explained that he has something that Daguva wants to the point of toying with him. He's not going to extend the same behaviour to anyone else.

Keep in mind that this is also the same guy who was untraceable despite leaving all his carnage behind for everyone to see for 90% of the entire show. Daguva doesn't need to be seen for anyone not worthy of his time.

She's a spectrum that floats in the air so he won't be hearing footsteps lol

Bro took this long to pull this up
Thankfully the sense of smell and the surroundings are still going to make noise.
Even without that, there's still no stopping Daguva from burning the entirety of Central Park just to kill her.

EDIT: If we're really going back and forth at it, might as well make a thread.

 

[Bobsican]

Rick Sanchez for the 4th slot in 1-C, he scales to infinite 7-D structures (which is above Xenoblade, which caps at 6-D) and has a myriad of hax on top.

Also remove Granblue Fantasy from 1-C as they're 1-A smurfs

 

[Dragonite007]

Rick Sanchez for the 4th slot in 1-C, he scales to infinite 7-D structures (which is above Xenoblade, which caps at 6-D) and has a myriad of hax on top.

Also remove Granblue Fantasy from 1-C as they're 1-A smurfs

Done

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

2. Gu Chensha

3. Joshua van Radcliffe

Josh is higher than Gu Chensha on High 1-A, Josh is High 1-A+.

 

[Shadowslash125]

If we're really going back and forth at it, might as well make a thread.

Thread Made.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Ember McLain for an open spot in 2-C.

 

[Dragonite007]

Ember McLain for an open spot in 2-C.

Damn, beat PVZ by one universe

Added

 

[Nonynho]

Tier 9-A:

N-Daguva-Zeba VS Unforgotten Spectre Liz (Top 15 Strongest Non-Smurf 9-A Ranking Battle) (1-0-0)

Made this for Daguva to contest being above Unforgotten Spectre in the top 15 strongest non-smurf 9-A rankings. Due to the nature of this battle, I can't be as fancy. Battle Conditions: Speeds are equalized Both are at their strongest 9-A keys Everything else unmentioned will be according to...

vsbattles.com

By the final conclusion of this thread, N-Daguva-Zeba should occupy the 9th position (as @Shadowslash125 claims the guy can pass by Sans and Mardicus with his hax) and Unforgotten Spectre Liz should occupy the 10th position since to defeat Sans she doesn't need equal speed Sans is no longer 9-A and all below suffer from instant loss when facing Disturbing Presence's effects, with the below being the proposed composition of this tier.

8. Gul'dan

9. N-Daguva-Zeba

10. Unforgotten Spectre Liz

11. Bomber King

12. The Bearer of the Curse

13. Alice Fuji

14. Ryuga Dogai

15.

I would also like to apologize for taking people's time with this.

 

[Franstel]

N-Daguva-Zeba VS Unforgotten Spectre Liz (Top 15 Strongest Non-Smurf 9-A Ranking Battle) (1-0-0)

Made this for Daguva to contest being above Unforgotten Spectre in the top 15 strongest non-smurf 9-A rankings. Due to the nature of this battle, I can't be as fancy. Battle Conditions: Speeds are equalized Both are at their strongest 9-A keys Everything else unmentioned will be according to...

vsbattles.com

By the final conclusion of this thread, N-Daguva-Zeba should occupy the 9th position (as @Shadowslash125 claims the guy can pass by Sans

Sans should be removed entirely he is no longer 9-A.

 

[Nonynho]

Sans should be removed entirely he is no longer 9-A.

Oh s*, for real!

 

[Nonynho]

Sans should be removed entirely he is no longer 9-A.

pls tell me if i should put Roy in that Teen Titans' match

 

[Dragonite007]

I would also like to apologize for taking people's time with this.

Changed

 

[Shadowslash125]

What's the sitch now that sans is gone

 

[AlphaOmegaV1]

Characters from Honkai Star Rail for 2-A. While I don't think they'll beat Supernatural, I do think they could potentially get past Discord

 

[Dragonite007]

Characters from Honkai Star Rail for 2-A. While I don't think they'll beat Supernatural, I do think they could potentially get past Discord

What's they have against passive plot hax?

 

[AlphaOmegaV1]

What's they have against passive plot hax?

His profile doesn't say his plot hax is passive unless verse supporters have clarified that it is so. So Discord just kinda dies to certain passives, especially ones from Aeons like Nanook and IX.

 

[Dragonite007]

His profile doesn't say his plot hax is passive unless verse supporters have clarified that it is so. So Discord just kinda dies to certain passives, especially ones from Aeons like Nanook and IX.

It's not Discord I'm talking about, i am talking about the TDM characters

 

[AlphaOmegaV1]

It's not Discord I'm talking about, i am talking about the TDM characters

Ah I'm sorry I assumed you were talking about Discord since that's who I mentioned, they do not. Though If TDM characters plot is passive why are they below Discord since he seems to be lacking in the resistance department.

 

[Dragonite007]

Ah I'm sorry I assumed you were talking about Discord since that's who I mentioned, they do not. Though If TDM characters plot is passive why are they below Discord since he seems to be lacking in the resistance department.

Because, no one put TDM characters against Discord as far as I know