The Boys discussion thread

[Phoenks]

These 2 episodes lowkey have to be bare minimum 9/10 to save this season.

 

[Ethnikistis]

These 2 episodes lowkey have to be bare minimum 9/10 to save this season.

I dont think there is anything inherently bad with the season except like:
Butcher seemingly not having any risks despite the s4 Finale.
Everyone easily teaming up w Butcher despite the narrative of the s4 Finale.
And some small lazy writing in some episodes.

 

[SlendVeny]

You are taking it out of context. The priest was desperate after the church was attacked, so he went to the only person he knows who is high in the vought corpo ladder. Plain and simple, he was desperate and Firecracker was the only potential door to save their church. '

Should've made it more clear I was doing a bit, nvm

 

[SlendVeny]

I dont think there is anything inherently bad with the season except like:
Butcher seemingly not having any risks despite the s4 Finale.

I'm still betting on him dying the same way as in the comic

 

[Legion350]

I dont think there is anything inherently bad with the season except like:
Butcher seemingly not having any risks despite the s4 Finale.
Everyone easily teaming up w Butcher despite the narrative of the s4 Finale.
And some small lazy writing in some episodes.

It would be more palatable for me as a middle season, but as a final season it hits even worse. Only two episodes are left that are supposed to wrap up multiple seasons of storylines, they’re already trying tie in the spin offs and the season has felt meandering so far.

 

[TheGatto]

Random question sorry if it sounds dumb or it was already said but im new.
Whats the speed of Homelander Heat Vision? Speed of light or lower? Why its not on his page its should be?
And also im hyped to see V1 Homelander.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Random question sorry if it sounds dumb or it was already said but im new.
Whats the speed of Homelander Heat Vision? Speed of light or lower? Why its not on his page its should be?
And also im hyped to see V1 Homelander.

MFTL A-Train

 

[Ethnikistis]

MFTL A-Train

Ah yes,the character who previously was barely mach 1.3,is now MFTL.The fact that A train couldn't get much faster with training makes it much more improbable.

 

[TheGatto]

Ah yes,the character who previously was barely mach 1.3,is now MFTL.The fact that A train couldn't get much faster with training makes it much more improbable.

So for you? How fast is Homie Heatvision? Makes sense to think homelander Heat Vision is at least close to Speed Of Light.
When we saw A-Train perception Homelander heat vision was the only thing moving so A Train speed should be comparable to Homie heat vision? (I think Homelander can also regulate the speed of his Heat vision maybe becouse during the chasing, Homelander Heat Vision was actually faster than A Train if u look closley, but Homelander could not aim properly becouse of his perception wich made harder for him hit A Train. So it makes sense that if Homelander lasers are Speed of Light or close A Train is also close to them?)
Im new so im sorry if i say dumb things let me know what you think their speed actually was, to me i belive its at least an improvment of some kind since before Homelander was at least Mach 10-18, also Ryan flying to Russia/USA in seconds make sense, also A Train was able to keep up with Starlight Light Beams kinda, also in eppisode 1 A Train was not fast enough to dodge Robin and now he is able to dodge a human girl in the middle of the road implying that he at least trained to not do the same error.
What you think their speed should be? Also what is homelander heat vision speed? They should be on his page?

 

[Queen_Dasania]

So for you? How fast is Homie Heatvision? Makes sense to think homelander Heat Vision is at least close to Speed Of Light.
When we saw A-Train perception Homelander heat vision was the only thing moving so A Train speed should be comparable to Homie heat vision? (I think Homelander can also regulate the speed of his Heat vision maybe becouse during the chasing, Homelander Heat Vision was actually faster than A Train if u look closley, but Homelander could not aim properly becouse of his perception wich made harder for him hit A Train. So it makes sense that if Homelander lasers are Speed of Light or close A Train is also close to them?)
Im new so im sorry if i say dumb things let me know what you think their speed actually was, to me i belive its at least an improvment of some kind since before Homelander was at least Mach 10-18, also Ryan flying to Russia/USA in seconds make sense, also A Train was able to keep up with Starlight Light Beams kinda, also in eppisode 1 A Train was not fast enough to dodge Robin and now he is able to dodge a human girl in the middle of the road implying that he at least trained to not do the same error.
What you think their speed should be? Also what is homelander heat vision speed? They should be on his page?

We don’t know how fast Homelander’s heat vision is, but we know enough about it to know that it isn’t likely as fast as light. So we can’t know how fast it is

Homelander’s hypersonic+ feat was recalculated to be Supersonic+, we’re just waiting for approval on that feat. And even then, it kind of seems a to be an outlier

I think A-Train can’t really be faster than Supersonic, but you could maybe push him to Supersonic+

There do seem to be a few possible Massively Hypersonic to sub relativistic feats, but those are so far above what’s consistent, and the stated feats, that I don’t think they should be taken too seriously

 

[TheGatto]

We don’t know how fast Homelander’s heat vision is, but we know enough about it to know that it isn’t likely as fast as light. So we can’t know how fast it is

Homelander’s hypersonic+ feat was recalculated to be Supersonic+, we’re just waiting for approval on that feat. And even then, it kind of seems a to be an outlier

I think A-Train can’t really be faster than Supersonic, but you could maybe push him to Supersonic+

There do seem to be a few possible Massively Hypersonic to sub relativistic feats, but those are so far above what’s consistent, and the stated feats, that I don’t think they should be taken too seriously

If someone finds out the speed of Homelander lasers than he can find out A Train travel speed and also homelander flight speed not perception tho. Idk if it makes sense. Also i belive Homelander speed should be faster than any man made veichle and fast enough to dodge a nuclear bomb otherwise all the statements on Homelander survirving would not make sense unsless its survirving by tanking them, either he can tank the nuclear bombs or he can outrun them or both. Or those statements are there just to be there wich i dont think

 

[Queen_Dasania]

If someone finds out the speed of Homelander lasers than he can find out A Train travel speed and also homelander flight speed not perception tho. Idk if it makes sense.

I see what you mean, and maybe. But any result it would yield would likely be an outlier. It’s also inconsistent. One minute, he’s seeing Homelander’s heat vision in slow motion, the next, he’s having to dodge it as Homelander chases him

 

[Just_Butchering]

First of all, there aren't any particularly impressive feats for Heat Vision speed per say and there aren't any statements on its speed, so trying to get a character's speed from it would be Calc Stacking.

But also, A-Train's scene is an outlier that contradicts not only every other speed feat in the series, but also it's contradicted next scene during their chase.

Going back to HV, I was working on sandboxes to update the profiles after S5, and I simply have HV upscale Homelander's flight speed.

 

[TheGatto]

First of all, there aren't any particularly impressive feats for Heat Vision speed per say and there aren't any statements on its speed, so trying to get a character's speed from it would be Calc Stacking.

But also, A-Train's scene is an outlier that contradicts not only every other speed feat in the series, but also it's contradicted next scene during their chase.

Going back to HV, I was working on sandboxes to update the profiles after S5, and I simply have HV upscale Homelander's flight speed.

Homelander running speed is not Athletic during the canon diabolical eppisode in the chemical plant he disarms people at superhuman speeds by running.

 

[ByArrow]

Saved Billy Butcher from the explosion of Madelyn's bomb vest<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Just_Butchering/Homelander_(Sandbox)#cite_note-S1E8-47"><span>[</span>38<span></span></a>

This is not just flight speed, but also reaction speed. And as I said before, since Homelander is capable of making rapid, sharp manoeuvres whilst flying in pursuit of the A-train, his reactions should be scaled to his own flight speed.

 

[Just_Butchering]

This is not just flight speed, but also reaction speed. And as I said before, since Homelander is capable of making rapid, sharp manoeuvres whilst flying in pursuit of the A-train, his reactions should be scaled to his own flight speed.

Issue is, his combat speed is way lower, is never depicted as Supersonic or higher. So, while technicality it should be reactions too, it's better to keep it as flight speed. Otherwise, then it's an outlier.

Homelander running speed is not Athletic during the canon diabolical eppisode in the chemical plant he disarms people at superhuman speeds by running.

1. He only ever did that once, otherwise he just walks or flies.
2. All the shooters to still somewhat react to him, so saying superhuman feels wrong.

 

[ByArrow]

Issue is, his combat speed is way lower, is never depicted as Supersonic or higher. So, while technicality it should be reactions too, it's better to keep it as flight speed. Otherwise, then it's an outlier.

Reaction speed and combat speed do not always have to be directly scales to each other. You can have a lower combat speed but still have faster reactions.

1. He only ever did that once, otherwise he just walks or flies.

The fact that he hasn’t done it again doesn’t change the fact that he did it. The fact that he mostly prefers to walk or fly is not a counter-argument.

2. All the shooters to still somewhat react to him, so saying superhuman feels wrong.

Rather than reacting to him, they perceived him. And although people cannot react to objects moving at superhuman or subsonic speeds, they can still perceive them

 

[Ethnikistis]

Homelanders heat vision isnt LS for sure.Off the top of my head the best speed feat is when he lasered that "snitch" beyond her perception,so subsonic+.

 

[ByArrow]

The only thing I can say about the speed of Homelander’s HV is that, whilst A-Train was running, a bullet was completely frozen in mid-air, yet Homelander’s HV was still moving. So it’s at least faster than a bullet.

 

[Ethnikistis]

The only thing I can say about the speed of Homelander’s HV is that, whilst A-Train was running, a bullet was completely frozen in mid-air, yet Homelander’s HV was still moving. So it’s at least faster than a bullet.

Subsonic+ is faster than bullets anyways.Def not anything above transonic .

 

[ByArrow]

Subsonic+ is faster than bullets anyways.Def not anything above transonic .

The gun that fired the bullet was an M4A1 Carbine, and this gun has muzzle velocity of (880-910 m/s (supersonic+)

 

[Ethnikistis]

The gun that fired the bullet was an M4A1 Carbine, and this gun has muzzle velocity of (880-910 m/s (supersonic+)

I dont believe anything thats above transonic maybe mach 2.Since Atrain has a max speed of mach 1.3 and training did nothing for him.

 

[ByArrow]

I dont believe anything thats above transonic maybe mach 2.Since Atrain has a max speed of mach 1.3 and training did nothing for him.

Whilst chasing Atrain, Homelander's Heat Vision was fast enought to close gap between them several times.

As we agreed that A-Train sees Homelander as completely frozen is outliner for him. So we can calculate the HV’s speed in that scene and scale the HV to that calculated speed.

 

[LandonTheGuy]

I dont believe anything thats above transonic maybe mach 2.Since Atrain has a max speed of mach 1.3 and training did nothing for him.

not to expert on the verse so don't flame if i'm wrong.

wasn't that value taken when he was nerfed due of heart problems?

 

[Ethnikistis]

not to expert on the verse so don't flame if i'm wrong.

wasn't that value taken when he was nerfed due of heart problems?

Im pretty sure the heart problem was in a later season.He got high on V which started causing heart damage,then he started getting slower and got a heart surgery returning to M1.3.

 

[Just_Butchering]

Reaction speed and combat speed do not always have to be directly scales to each other. You can have a lower combat speed but still have faster reactions.

So every punch Soldier Boy, Butcher and Maeve landed were for the love of the game? Such reactions should let him dodge all with ease.

The fact that he hasn’t done it again doesn’t change the fact that he did it. The fact that he mostly prefers to walk or fly is not a counter-argument.

Rather than reacting to him, they perceived him. And although people cannot react to objects moving at superhuman or subsonic speeds, they can still perceive them

Is not even the speed he uses normally. Maybe I'll add it as an extra movement ability.

 

[Ethnikistis]

Reaction speed and combat speed do not always have to be directly scales to each other. You can have a lower combat speed but still have faster reactions.

The fact that he hasn’t done it again doesn’t change the fact that he did it. The fact that he mostly prefers to walk or fly is not a counter-argument.

Rather than reacting to him, they perceived him. And although people cannot react to objects moving at superhuman or subsonic speeds, they can still perceive them

Subsonic+ is defined as faster than the human eye

 

[ByArrow]

Subsonic+ is defined as

The reason we classify this as subsonic is that we can see subsonic objects, and since we can see them, whatever we cannot see must be at least faster than those objects.

Human vision is a complex topic, as the eye doesn't quite work like a camera and the brain processes the image given by the eye a lot to produce the image we see. Hence common figures like the "framerate" of the human eye can't simply be used to evaluate feats of moving faster than the eye can see.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Calculations#Slow_Motion_Calculations:~:text=see-,Human,given.
Since we can clearly see human sized moving objects such as motorcyclists or skydivers it can be assumed that characters which move faster than the human eye can see should move faster than those, granting them at least Subsonic speed. That should only be assumed under regular seeing conditions. However, if the person whose point of view we take has bad eyesight, if the target is camouflaged or very far away, or if the surroundings are extraordinarily bright or dark the feat can possibly not be used as normal conditions of vision aren't given.

- Calculation Page

So this doesn’t prevent Homelander from being subsonic.

So every punch Soldier Boy, Butcher and Maeve landed were for the love of the game? Such reactions should let him dodge all with ease.

Reaction speed only allows you to make a single short movement; if you can perform this movement repeatedly, that’s combat speed. In other words, the fact that Homelander has a faster reaction speed only allows him to block one or two attacks, because he needs combat speed to keep it up. So the fact that others can fight Homelander and land punches on him does not prevent him from having a faster reaction speed.

Reaction speed is the speed at which a character can react to an event or action. This usually only grants a short movement upon reaction, whereas several movements at the same speed switch it to combat speed.

Is not even the speed he uses normally. Maybe I'll add it as an extra movement ability.

It doesn’t matter whether he normally uses it or not. We use running speed for travel speed, and this is his running speed.

Travel Speed​

The speed at which a character or object can move by running, or through similar means that do not involve flight or teleportation.

- Speed Page

 

[Legion350]

Homelander running speed is not Athletic during the canon diabolical eppisode in the chemical plant he disarms people at superhuman speeds by running.

I think this would be at the border between Superhuman and low level Subsonic, considering how fast he crossed the room. That being said I don’t see how it’s a contradiction.

Issue is, his combat speed is way lower, is never depicted as Supersonic or higher. So, while technicality it should be reactions too, it's better to keep it as flight speed. Otherwise, then it's an outlier.

1. He only ever did that once, otherwise he just walks or flies.
2. All the shooters to still somewhat react to him, so saying superhuman feels wrong.

1. Seems to be a case that he’s never needed to do it. We’ve seen that his flight speed is much faster than he can run. Any situation where he’d needed to get somewhere fast he could fly there easier. We’ve seen that Homelander is pretty lazy with his powers as well. He has accidentally killed people with his eyes beams even though he can aim them because he didn’t care.

2. We still see him cross the entire room almost instantly. This is pretty clearly a Subsonic feat. While their eyes can sorta track him none of them were able to respond to his movements until he stopped.

 

[Queen_Dasania]

I personally feel as if Homelander running at Superhuman to Subsonic speeds makes plenty of sense. We have the diabolical scene to show it. It would also make sense for him to run faster than Queen Maeve and Black Noir

 

[Legion350]

Also, while I don’t think A-Train is anywhere near MHS, we know Homelander can fly faster than sound, and we have a value from the show saying he was moving around Mach 1.5 while looking for Translucent. Homelander was furious at A-Train while trying to kill him, so I don’t have a problem with Supersonic A-Train.

Also, the Showrunner was pretty blatant in an interview that A-Train is faster than Homelander. He would’ve been able to get away if the lady wasn’t there.

I think A-Train statuing the lasers is an outlier, but the intent is very clearly that A-Train > Homelander flight speed.

 

[Ethnikistis]

Also, while I don’t think A-Train is anywhere near MHS, we know Homelander can fly faster than sound, and we have a value from the show saying he was moving around Mach 1.5 while looking for Translucent. Homelander was furious at A-Train while trying to kill him, so I don’t have a problem with Supersonic A-Train.

Also, the Showrunner was pretty blatant in an interview that A-Train is faster than Homelander. He would’ve been able to get away if the lady wasn’t there.

I think A-Train statuing the lasers is an outlier, but the intent is very clearly that A-Train > Homelander flight speed.

Whole verse should cap at supersonic at best.
Homelanders combat speed should be relative to his flight/travel speed via the explosion feat from s1.So him not being able to catch up to A train(M2 at best) should put the verses combat speed at around that.Plus the fact that Soldier boy has some subsonic+ feats of his own,Butcher(relative to Homie in C/R speed)getting blitzed by bombsight(should fly slower than homelander obv).

 

[Queen_Dasania]

Whole verse should cap at supersonic at best.
Homelanders combat speed should be relative to his flight/travel speed via the explosion feat from s1.So him not being able to catch up to A train(M2 at best) should put the verses combat speed at around that.Plus the fact that Soldier boy has some subsonic+ feats of his own,Butcher(relative to Homie in C/R speed)getting blitzed by bombsight(should fly slower than homelander obv).

What are Soldier Boy’s subsonic+ feats?

 

[Ethnikistis]

What are Soldier Boy’s subsonic+ feats?

Perception blitzing Kimiko(superhuman) in the S3 finale.

 

[SlendVeny]

Also, while I don’t think A-Train is anywhere near MHS, we know Homelander can fly faster than sound, and we have a value from the show saying he was moving around Mach 1.5 while looking for Translucent. Homelander was furious at A-Train while trying to kill him, so I don’t have a problem with Supersonic A-Train.

Also, the Showrunner was pretty blatant in an interview that A-Train is faster than Homelander. He would’ve been able to get away if the lady wasn’t there.

I think A-Train statuing the lasers is an outlier, but the intent is very clearly that A-Train > Homelander flight speed.

Also stamina could've factored into the chase scene. Not necessarily a huge factor, but a factor nonetheless.

 

[Legion350]

The only characters who have a valid point of scaling at Supersonic are A-Train at his max, and Homelander’s flight in my opinion.

Are you’re talking about the scene where he catches Kimiko mid attack? I think with the bombsight fight, Soldier Boy/Homelander have a good case for Subsonic. I don’t think it’s enough for a + since we don’t know how much Soldier Boy was faster than Kimiko from his perspective. Unless I’m missing a calc.

I think Starlight should have Subsonic reactions as well but not combat speed since she caught Huey mid fall.

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

Has anyone ever blocked Homelanders HV after it was fired?

 

[Just_Butchering]

Has anyone ever blocked Homelanders HV after it was fired?

The only time charcaters seems to react to HV, they actually aim dodging (trust me, I checked all the instance in slowmo, they always start to dodge/block going from looking at the glowing eyes)

Reaction speed only allows you to make a single short movement; if you can perform this movement repeatedly, that’s combat speed. In other words, the fact that Homelander has a faster reaction speed only allows him to block one or two attacks, because he needs combat speed to keep it up. So the fact that others can fight Homelander and land punches on him does not prevent him from having a faster reaction speed.

Best other combat feat for the charcaters is 49 m/s so far, that's a huge gap for him to get hit so often.

Perception blitzing Kimiko(superhuman) in the S3 finale.

Calc stacking. At best, he merely upscales Kimiko.

Anyways, since I shared one sandbox, might as well share others I worked on lol:

• Butcher
• Hughie
• Maeve (Ignore her running speed at athletic human, I'll get to it later(?)
• Soldier Boy
• Kimiko
• Marie

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

The only time charcaters seems to react to HV, they actually aim dodging (trust me, I checked all the instance in slowmo, they always start to dodge/block going from looking at the glowing eyes)

Good, I was planning on calculating Homelanders HV speed in that A Train chase scene and I didn't wanna do all that for nothing.

 

[Legion350]

The only time charcaters seems to react to HV, they actually aim dodging (trust me, I checked all the instance in slowmo, they always start to dodge/block going from looking at the glowing eyes)

Best other combat feat for the charcaters is 49 m/s so far, that's a huge gap for him to get hit so often.

Calc stacking. At best, he merely upscales Kimiko.

Anyways, since I shared one sandbox, might as well share others I worked on lol:

• Butcher
• Hughie
• Maeve (Ignore her running speed at athletic human, I'll get to it later(?)
• Soldier Boy
• Kimiko
• Marie

Thanks for the sandbox. I forgot about Maeve having a Subsonic calc from early on. In that case, Kimiko and Supes around her level should be Subsonic. And Maeve post training/Homelander/SB etc just upscale her previous speed to an unquantifiable degree.